Hey Guys! Miss me? So, Spidey is having one of those days where ever single baddie that hates him is coming after him. Why? Mostly because if they don’t, they’ll spend eternity in hell and they don’t want that kind of retirement plan. Which begs the question…if they didn’t want that kind of afterlife, why waste your life to crime? I mean…you bought the tickets to that rollercoaster, how did you expect the ride would end? The only one that might get redemption in all of this is Boomerang and Mysterio, Doc Ock had his change (TWICE I may add) and wasted it. So while the supervillains are playing “Pin the knife on the Webslinger”, all Peter’s worrying about is getting out so he can rescue the beautiful Mary Jane who was kidnaped by the evil Kindred who happens to be Peter’s ex-best friend, Harry Osborn.
- So, will Peter reach his smoking hot redheaded gf in time?
- How is Mary Jane doing in all of this commotion?
- Any update on Carlie and Harry Lyman?
- Did Norman forget the keys to his mansion?
- What kind of game is Dr. Strange and Mephisto playing over at the “Casino of Lost Souls”?
The curtain is peeling back slowly Crawlspacers, but I’m looking at as much as I can to deliver you the answers you are seeking, and it’s only right here, on the Spider-Man Crawlspace!
Required Reading
Before you move on, here are the links to the previous written reviews of Sinister War!
The Chi-Town Breakdown:Prelude: Amazing Spider-Man #871
Alford’s Notes: Sinister War #1
The Chi-Town Breakdown: Amazing Spider-Man #872
Alford’s Notes: Sinister War #2
Alford’s Notes: Sinister War #3
Want to go further back? How Mary Jane got a part in Mysterio’s Movie?
Alford’s Notes: Amazing Spider-Man #826
The Bogenrieder Perspective: Amazing Spider-Man #826
Then OF COURSE there’s the journey they took to complete this film
The Chi-Town Breakdown: The Amazing Mary Jane #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, Soft Canceling
(Writer) Nick Spencer
(Artist) Carlos Gomez, Marcelo Ferrira, Federico Sabbatini, and Ze Carlos
(Colorist) Alex Sinclair
(Letterer) VC’s Joe Caramagna
(Editor) Nick Lowe
(EIC) C.B. Cebulski
Date Released 8/25/2021
Issue Number #873
Price Tag: $3.99
For a different perspective:
Alford’s Notes and Read’s Reads
Story: Spider-Man is fighting the Sinister Six, but you can see what happens with that in the Sinister War mini series as we focus more on JR’s hero, Norman Osborn. There’s a couple of flashbacks with Norman at Mendel Stromm’s Award Ceremony, Coney Island with his son Harry, and in his home office. All these flashbacks have one thing in common, having a conversation with unknown man that wants to “strike a deal” with Norman. Meanwhile Kindred foreshadows the conclusion to this issue to Mary Jane, while Carlie and H. Lyman discover a “breakthrough” in their escape. Norman’s key seems to open up a lab where the AI Osborn from Spider-Man: Legacy of Evil resides. The AI Osborn represents the Sinful Norman and he’s having a heart to heart with Cleansed Norman. It is revealed that the unknown man that Norman was talking to was none other than Mephisto! During a time when Norman was about to lose everything, he struck a deal with Mephisto to get it all back and it only cost him the soul of his first born son, Harry! AI Norman Osborn isn’t who he appears to be and the screen show Harry saying his catchphrase “Gotcha!”. Apparently that’s accurate since Nick Spencer did the same to us and Mary Jane. Kindred isn’t “entirely” who he revealed himself to be!
The Breakdown
- The Osborn Reboot
- “Gotcha!”
- The Morgue
Nitpicks- Grade
The Osborn Reboot: Is Mephisto responsible for the creation of Green Goblin and origin rebooted? He did set the pieces in place to give Norman the fortune that he desired, but in my opinion.. No. Whether he’s CEO of his own business or a clerk at your local grocery store, Norman is STILL Norman. He’s smart and cunning to say the least. He was always going to make that goblin formula and become The Green Goblin. Whether it was in an expensive lab or in his own garage. Mephisto only set life events up for Norman’s fortune, so when Mephisto stated “my legacy made flesh”, that isn’t implied for Norman in my opinion, I think he’s referring to Harry. As it was stated out, Norman had no memory of talking to Mephisto or making that deal, like Peter and MJ have no memory about the truth of OMD and were lead to believe that OMIT story line was the truth. So any theory of Norman belittling his son because he knew he was sold off are basically scrapped. Norman was still going to act that way to Harry, deal or not deal. When his “sins were removed” that’s when Norman remembered what actually happened. He sold his boy’s soul to Mephisto.
In Harry’s life there was resentment from his father, his friends and even women that he dated. He had a drug problem. He went through cooperate woes when he took over the business. Eventually he still became sick in the head and became The Green Goblin. These are all evil downfalls and Mephisto is all about that. Evil is his legacy and now a person in the flesh is acting it out. I do think that Mephisto had something to do with that. One could argue that in the end of Spect 200, Harry pulled the Heroic card and there have been some many happy moments before then, still as long as Mephisto get what the devil is due, Harry had no choice. Norman made the decision without his knowledge. The deed was already done and signed.
Gotcha: Throughout these three years, Nick Spencer has taken us on quite a ride on this title. Just when we thought we figured it out, he reveals that we aren’t even as close as we thought we were. So now we are back to where we started. WHO REALLY IS KINDRED?! When reading these comics, it’s easy to come up with theories to make them merit, but the key is the wording that is being used and comparing that wording to the continuity that was left behind for us to exam. I like to think I have been doing my part in that when typing out these reviews for you, heck, I’ll even give Mark credit for his, even though it appears that he was wrong about Kindred’s ID. So let’s jump right in. Kindred stated to Mary Jane that he’s “Not who he said he is, at least not ENTIRELY.” He expresses that it’s time for MJ to know the truth, no matter what the cost which leaves our favorite redhead in utter SHOCK! You can look at it from two perspectives.
- It’s really is Harry, but all mangled and disformed. Not “entirely” Harry, but Harry none the less. Kindred states we are who we are, just think Two-Face from Nolan’s The Dark Knight. “Why should I hide who I am.” That image put Commission Gordan in shock, MJ could have the same effect.
- It’s not Harry but someone else. There have been a few theories who Kindred could be now so let’s exam the often used.
- Peter Parker PRE-OMD (Marriage Soul): Throughout Spencer’s run, OMD has been featured and will be addressed (hopefully concluded) in his run. This would leave Mary Jane in complete and utter shock and could make sense, but I don’t think it is. Doesn’t fit the “Entirely” portion of Kindred’s speech. That portion makes me think is Osborn Name connected. Kindred has acted in ways that would not fit the characteristics of PRE-OMD Peter Parker. Some Key Points…
– He would never dig up old friends and relatives and put wigs on their corpse.
– Disguise himself as his best friend.
– Almost willing kill Mary Jane for the way she treated Harry back in the day.
– Freak out when POST-OMD Peter revealed his secret to Black Cat, again. - Mary Jane Watson PARKER (Marriage Soul): …Why do you guys hate me so much? This is torture to even think about this possibility, but I promised Brad I would review ASM good or bad. So it would leave MJ in complete shock and make sense, however the things listed above for Peter almost fit’s MJ not being a suspect. Lets remember OMD and OMIT both characters were written with an agenda for the new brain trust team to relive their glory single days via Spider-Man. So both characters were written out their continuity element. Spencer has been trying to fix that in a comic logic kind of way. He even stated that he likes MJ and I honestly don’t believe he would do that to the character after writing her so well.
- Liz Allen: I know right? Where did that come from? Here me out and see what you think after reading these hot topics below…
– Liz hates Norman.
– Liz could consider it’s Peter’s fault for what happened to Harry. His life as Spider-Man has put others in jeopardy.
– Liz freaks out about Peter telling Felicia who he is. She has personal experience with what that secret can do to others.
– Liz as Kindred does almost a mirror reflection of a dinner setting that Harry as Green Goblin did back in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #189.
– Would definitely leave Mary Jane in shock.
– Would want to kill MJ for not helping Harry enough in his time of need.
– Holds merit to the statement “Not entirely” Harry, but definitely a part of his life. She’s kindred spirits with Harry Osborn.
– Liz and Peter have known each other since high school, she could have finally snapped when her husband died. Definitely has some control to Osborn “accounts”.Gloating privileges would have to go back to Mike (StillaNerd) if Kindred turns out to be a chick.
– “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”
The Morgue: What a breakthrough for Carlie and H.Lyman. Literally. Looks like they were held up in Carlie’s morgue all along and Harry is about to witness something I’m sure he’s not prepared for. Still think he’s a Chameleon Agent.
Grade: I’m skipping right the grade and giving this an A. We all know the rotating artists and writer nitpicks. Along with the dragging this out feature. Like I have told you many times before, enjoy this ride. When Spencer does his final issue, you can pass the judgement then. See next time! Mark will cover next week with Sinister War #4
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A part of me is glad that I am not the only one who has considered that Kindred might be Peter & Mary Jane’s unborn daughter. But the rest of me extrapolates that theory to mean that Kindred would therefore be Spider-Girl, which is totally unacceptable.
Regardless of who Kindred is, it would be better if at the end ofASM 76/877 Peter simply quits being Spider-Man and they have a memo box referring us to What If 106 and make everything that follows that the official retro-correction for One More Day.
I can rearrange my comic drawers again, Ben can stay Spider-Man, and everything is copasetic.
I have to be honest and say that I’m just trying to “enjoy the ride,” as Chi-Town always says, because, as much as I enjoy reading everyone’s comments and speculations, going into all of that myself just gives me a really big headache and makes me just want this story to end, which isn’t fun at all — especially if it’s just a bait and switch. In that case, I get a headache, and I get no where in the process. This is why I appreciate all of you breaking it down (and Mark, spreadsheets make that easy on the eyes, too!), so thank you all of you who aren’t afraid to delve into Spider-history and try to make sense of all of the madness.
Finally an issue where something important seems to happen. But then you have the final cliffhanger… Argh! Spencer why do you hate us so much?! Jokes aside, after all this dragging I think it would have been better to just reveal it in the issue.
It’s also interesting to finally know the sin Norman was accused of, albeit… Learning that the GreenGoblin’s origin may be Mephisto’s fault… It’s controversial. I agree that if you think about it, it doesn’t change too much of Norman’s past and responsibilities, but it gives the whole matter a “the devil made me do it” kind of feeling which… Takes away from the realism? I don’t know how to explain it, but I bet Ditko is turning in his grave right now.
Also I think “the legacy made flesh” Mephisto’s referring to is the Green Goblin persona, not Harry\Kindred.
So, who is Kindred? He says he is not entirely who we think he is. Add to that the two tubes in Norman’s forgotten lab, which are “his, but not in the flesh” and my mind jumps to Gabriel and Sarah. Maybe they’re not what we think they are. Maybe Kindred is Gabriel, who is some kind of “copy” of Harry? That’s the first thing I thought, but then I realized that maybe the tubes are linked to Norman and Harry’s AI version, of which I don’t know anything about, since I never read Legacy of Evil (and it’s not on Unlimited, damnation!)
None of the possibilites stated in the review sounds convincing enough to me, so I really hope none of them are true. However the Liz one made me consider the unborn daughter as a candidate. She would be Peter’s kindred, she would be pretty upset of not being born due to OMD’s pact and she could be identifying with Harry, who would be deady dead, since they’re both damned children condemned by their parents’s crazy pacts with the devil.
But I really agree with the majority here. It IS Harry, probably just a “piece” of him as many have well detailed in past reviews’ comments.
Nice review, Chi-Town! I’m still wanting this to be Harry, but I see one other possibility. The ONLY way it could be someone else is if Spencer is saying that there was ANOTHER son and we don’t know about that other son because Norman sacrificed him to Mephisto and all memory of him was erased. But that doesn’t explain his obsession with Spider-Man and that doesn’t really make much sense. It would be a fairly sorry bait and switch, if you ask me (which you didn’t). But with him constantly saying, “Your first born” instead of Harry, it feels like the only possible option.
Plus, if it is Harry, why would MJ look shocked and the face reveal? A theory that I haven’t had time to really explore is that the face behind the mask will be Peter. He will have used the Chameleon serum to look that way. It will all just serve as another “Gotcha”.
I don’t rightly know how I feel about this issue. I like the Kindred story so far. It is moving so fantastically slow, though, and that is grating. All the suspense is really cool, but only if it is worth it. Spencer is going way over on the hype that this is a shocking thing and it will have to be REALLY shocking to live up to that AND it has to fit what was laid out ahead of time.
Great summery, especially as most of the issue is just more of Kindred’s monologues.
I went into this issue thinking “something better happen”. After two lacklustre issues of Sinister War, I needed this to move the story forward. When I finished it I was worried Spencer’s introduced another new element with no time left to explain what is going on.
A new identify for Kindred? He has three issues left to not only explain who this Kindred is, but why he pretended to be a Harry for so long (if he’s not a Harry). That alone is going to take time, but is he going to explore the ramifications of Mephisto making a deal with Norman.
I’m not 100% sold on your theory that Norman is Norman, regardless. Pre-deal we saw that he was trying to be a good father, and I think Spencer referred to this Coney Island trip earlier in his run. I read this as Mephisto engineering Kindred’s birth. He needed someone to live a horrible life, and die to come to hell (so he made the deal for Norman’s first born*). Then he needed someone else to make a deal to rewrite time to let Harry come back (so he made the deal with Peter). I think Spencer is hinting that Mephisto made both deals so that his agent, Kindred, could be born. For whatever reason, it was never about Peter or Norman.
*Is Harry being referred to as first born a Sins Past reference,
Test
On the upside, this was a step up from the last issues of both ASM and SW. At least this issue didn’t seem to be simply spinning its wheels. While it was still exasperating to have the issue end on yet another tease, there was some forward momentum and actual revelations prior to that. Can’t say I love the idea of Norman having a history with Mephisto – I think we need less Mephisto in Spidey mythology, not more! – but I can give it a pass. And the promise of a new reveal of Kindred’s for real, 100% true ID is intriguing. As for what that identity is gonna be, I’ve got no idea. I just hope that it’s worth the build-up, makes sense and doesn’t just leave us saying “Huh?” I still think there’s room for Spencer to stick the landing and this issue gave me a glimmer of hope that he might just do it.
This issue was good. Finally the story is moving again. But there is still an aweful lot of ground to cover in only 2 issues…
I wonder if Kindred means “entirely” the other way around- he’s Harry, he’s just not all of Harry. Marriage is a contract sanctified by the Almighty. So maybe Kindred is the bad part of Harry. the part that belongs to Mephisto, while Harry Lyman is the good part of Harry, the part that belongs to Liz and Normie. If that’s the case, though, I wonder what he really looks like.
The thing is though I can’t see how he can’t be Harry in some form. Last issue, Kindred thought about how his friend Peter let him die a hero in an ambulance. That doesn’t work for anyone but Harry. Plus, I’m not sure what the point of the retcon this issue is if he’s not Harry.
We still don’t know WHY Kindred is doing this. I’m wondering if it has to do with Normie, who we saw Kindred standing over in an earlier issue.. Peter and MJ are Normie’s GODPARENTS. Maybe Mephisto considers Normie his property since he’s Harry’s firstborn son but Peter and MJ being his godparents stood in the way of that. And somehow making the deal removed them as an obstacle. Or something like that.
I still think there’s something weird about wherever Carlie and Other Harry are imprisoned. First, the door opened by itself, now they seem to be back in the morgue but that doesn’t seem possible since you’d think that was the first place MJ and Overdrive would have looked. I’m wondering if they are trapped in Kindred’s mind or something.
Norman having made a deal was nicely foreshadowed. In Amazing 56, Kindred said that Norman had done something to him that he had forgotten. And later on, Kindred told Ock that deals never end well for anyone involved. We thought he was talking about OMD, but now we know he was talking about Norman’s deal.
This issue fills me with confidence that Spencer is actually going somewhere and isn’t leaving early. It was nicely foreshadowed. Although one thing that I wonder will be resolved is Ned’s return. The mansion he described seemed to be Norman’s mansion this issue but since Kindred is working with Chameleon he could be a Chameleon. I wonder- could Kindred be Harry’s soul in Ned’s body? If that’s the case, then I wonder if Betty’s pregnant with Rosemary’s baby? EW!