Kingpin and Norman team up to take on Kindred, Spider-Man holds the lifeless body of Mary Jane, and the long awaited return of Carlie Cooper! What else do you need? Read on friends! This is a mighty Marvel story full of mighty Marvel mayhem! Face front, True Believers!
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Last Remains: Post-Mortem part 1
Writer: Nick Spencer
Penciler: Mark Bagley
Inkers: John Dell and Andrew Hennessy
Colorist: Rachel Rosenberg and Edgar Delgado
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artist: Mark Bagley, John Dell, and Edgar Delgado
Asst. Editor: Lindsey Cohick
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: January 6, 2021
Remedial ASM 101
Kindred has laid his trap and Peter has fallen completely into it. The Green Goblin has revealed that he was not affected by Sin-Eater’s blast after all and he and Kindred are in all out war. On top of that, Kingpin waits outside to make his move. We ended with darkness descending on them all. Is Mephisto? Did someone not pay the light bill? No one knows!
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
The Kingpin is using Spot (completely against his will) to funnel darkforce energy (same energy used by Hydra to trap New York a while back) to contain Kindred. Now in Ravencroft with Harry encapsulated in a box of darkness, Norman reveals that he truly is cleansed after all and just wants to help Harry. A flashback reveals to us that he is telling the truth and Mary Jane was only hit with a flash-bang pumpkin bomb and is perfectly OK while all of the other villains cleansed by Sin-Eater have had their sins returned. Meanwhile, Overdrive has escaped police custody and has tracked down Carlie Cooper to ask her out. His sins returned, but he doesn’t care. He’s choosing to make things right by being a hero. Meanwhile squared, Martin Li returns to F.E.A.S.T. where he is freaking out that Mr. Negative can return. Back at Ravencroft, Norman is left to wander what it is that Harry actually wants from him and Peter, just before Spider-Man burst in to Ravencroft yelling at Norman.
What Passed and Failed
PASS – Norman’s switcharoo – Norman faking that he was evil was a surprise that I did not see coming and from what I saw from chatter about the last issue, neither did anyone else! Nice one, Spencer!
PASS – Overdrive’s turning face! I figured that when the sins were returned, the villains would be able to choose to go forward or to turn a new leaf. Well, Overdrive is not only turning a new leaf, but wants to finally be the hero he has always wanted to be. Now cross your fingers so that we can get that Boomerang/Overdrive Heroes for Hire comic! Also, his asking Carlie out on a date puts Carlie in a position that she can become her own character and not just “Spider-Man’s Ex”.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), WAAAHHHHHMMMMMMM rates a 6.
Analysis
Norman’s Sins – While all the other villains except Overdrive have gone back to their old ways, Norman’s sins have not returned to him. Why? Are they lost? Did they infect someone else? Did the centipede that is supposedly still in Norman’s ear keep his sins from returning? Does it really matter? All that I have to say about it is that Spencer made good use of the non-linear storytelling here, and that is a high praise from me considering I HATE flashbacks and other forms of telling the story out of order.
What do they not remember? – This scene gives us more to chew on:
We all have a pretty good idea that what Peter can’t remember is the deal with Mephisto. Maybe it’s not, but the clues all seem to point in that direction and so far, Spencer has not played loosey-goosey with the clues. But look at that one more time. He is also suggesting that Norman has some action that he has done that he can’t remember. So the big questions are:
- What is it that Norman can’t remember?
- Is what Norman and Peter can’t remember the same thing? That would imply that it was not the marriage deal that Harry finds so appalling.
My prediction – Norman also made a deal with Mephisto to come back. Here’s the time line – in 1993, Harry dies in Spectacular Spider-Man #200. Norman Osborn returns in Amazing Spider-Man #418 (and you can get a glorious retelling of it from JR in this Spider-History podcast), which was in 1996. What if Norman’s deal to come back had something to do with Harry’s death? Or what if, while in hell, Norman sacrificed or wronged Harry in order to make his return? I don’t know, but I do know this – Spencer is making this so much fun to try and figure out!
Mr. Negative – I had no idea who this was.
Thankfully, the Aunt May from earth-1610 was here to tell us. If I have a problem with this book, it is, as you guys undoubtably can figure out, Bagley’s faces again. However, I do want to say while I felt his faces and art were inconsistent again, they did not distract me from the story, other than this one time, so it was not noted as a negative to this book.
While I have no particular like or dislike of Mr. Negative, I am glad to see him here. This will bring Aunt May and Randy back into the story and with Kindred signing off for who knows how long, it will be a welcome return of Spider-Man’s supporting cast.
Extra Credit
I’m awarding the extra credit to Spencer here for this panel:
Where MJ is a clear stand in for the long-time reader here glad to see things resetting to the character we all fell in love with in the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s.
And I’ll give Chi-Town bonus points for beating me with getting this review out.
Final Grade
I absolutely loved this issue. Sure, things are still unresolved, but the story is good, the clues are intriguing, and the set up for Overdrive, Aunt May, and Peter’s continued relationship with MJ make me excited for what comics I’m going to be getting from ASM this upcoming year.
A
Your Turn – What grade do YOU give it?
What’s Next?
- Spider-Man continues to pick up the pieces and try to put his life together.
- But many of the gathering storms are swirling more and more violently…
- We want to tell you more but it WOULD SPOIL SO MUCH OF LAST REMAINS!!!
Nick Lowe has asked people to let the Spider office know how they are doing by sending an email to spideyoffice@marvel.com and to make sure you mark it “OK to print”. If you get published, make sure to draw our attention to it!
‘Nuff Said!
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@Hornacek
So there’s cobwebs in my head no doubt. Where I think my brain created the “Harry as the original father) idea” came from a JR article on Deflowering Gwen. He mentioned that Harry would be a potential candidate for a father and for whatever reason my brain took the drama btn JMS/Quesada around Sins Past to be the fight was over Harry. I went back just now and reread my notes, you are definitely correct the dispute was Peter. So, my rusting is clear, thank for you calling that out !
To be honest though, JR’s articles are burned into brain and I don’t consider that a bad thing haha
@Hornacek – Just speculating, was all. I don’t believe it’s where Spencer is going to take it, just exploring possibilities. I think Doc Folsome’s idea that the shared sin deals with the baby is far more likely than my initial thought when reading the comic.
I mean, as far as I know, Norman’s return was explained in PPSM#75 by the Goblin formula healing him. I never thought there was anything supernatural or Mephisto/demon-related with him coming back. Yes, he “came back from the dead” but they explained it by “he was never dead”.
Aunt May was definitely saved by the power of love (it’s a curious thing). As Kevin said on the podcast when reviewing OMIT: “Chest compressions do not heal bullet wounds!”
Yes, Aunt May coming back from the dead (or “near death”) was Mephisto/demon-related, but I’ve never heard anything saying that Norman coming back was anything but the Goblin formula healing him.
@Hornacek – I was just spit balling about Norman coming back. It wouldn’t matter what reason was given for Norman surviving if a deal had been made with Mephisto. Aunt May was saved by the power of love or something like that, but in reality it was a deal with Mephisto. But I doubt that’s right. I was just speculating.
@Doc Folsome
“If JMS had gotten his way with Sins Past, and Harry was the one who had the affair with Gwen”
This is the first I’ve ever heard that JMS wanted Harry to be the one who had the affair with Gwen. I’ve always heard that his original plan was to have Peter be the one (and the father of the Stacey twins), but Marvel nixed this idea, so instead of scrapping the story he changed it so that it would be Norman.
“Norman also made a deal with Mephisto to come back … Norman Osborn returns in Amazing Spider-Man #418 … which was in 1996. What if Norman’s deal to come back had something to do with Harry’s death?” This is the first I’ve ever heard that Norman’s return had anything to do with a deal with Mephisto. PPSM#75 says that the Goblin formula kept him alive and healed him. Has it ever been said in the comics that he made a deal with Mephisto survive ASM#122? Is this mentioned in The Osborn Journal (which I’ve never read)?
“Mr. Negative – I had no idea who this was.” Glad to see I wasn’t the only. As someone who’s played the PS4 game a lot, I have an idea of what Li’s face should look like. This looks nothing like Li.
@Aqu@ and everyone else
It is pretty fantastic to be able to have actual civilized and respectful conversations with all of you without ever seeing any negativity or name calling. And it’s amazing to share and discuss all these subjects. The crawlspace is an oasis for fans! I’m looking forward to Wednesday to read your theories and opinions about the next issue or the state of our favorite friendly neighbor!
@Sthenurus
I wouldn’t say “fairy tale” and “realistic”, but more or less you got the grasp. 🙂
Maybe the medium hasn’t changed, but I would say our reality did and comics had to adapt to it.
Also the ’60s are way more than 20 years ago, and I used them in my example not without reason. It would be quite hard for me to be able to analyze stark changes in the medium in the last two decades, because I lived them, so I experienced them as a continuum. Meanwhile the ’60s are for me quite distant in the past and outside of my “normality”.
Thank you for the chance to speak and discuss about such a topic.
I love this place and the people in it.
Yep, Sam hit most of the points on the Baby May storyline which fizzled out slowly until the point in which it was simply ignored/swapped out for Aunt May. They tried to throw us off the scent in ASM426 when Mongrain gave that infamous rattle to a cat…who lived inside the crib on that boat…a very strange scene indeed.
And yup Aqu@, that line from Harry certainly suggests he’s aware of Baby May.
Baby May finally met her fate though with Quesada and BND. As you all probably remember, the infamous line around BND was “it’s only the marriage, everything else is the same, only the marriage is gone.” Which everyone knew was a load of bs, but fine we accepted it. Eventually Quesada would mention in interviews, “there’s one other thing.” Now, to the best of my knowledge, there is not an in-story panel in which MJ says she was never pregnant because of BND. The OMIT storyline hinted around it iirc, but I don’t remember if they say anything specifically. However, it is official canon and even before we got to the OMIT storyline, in 2009 the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z #11 states explicitly that because of the deal with Mephisto, MJ was never pregnant. And thus, Baby May was officially wiped from existence.
Interestingly, Harry was either dead or in Europe (depending on what you want to believe with Kindred at this point) while MJ would have been pregnant. So one hole in my theory is how much the loss of that baby would mean to Harry, who really never experienced the pregnancy with MJ/Peter. But if it is due to BND, and the loss of the baby is concomitant with the resurrection of Harry, there’s an odd ‘soul swap’ that occurs (baby May disappears, Harry reappears). But, I’d be really surprised if Spencer comes through on that, it is almost too good to be true for a fan like me and that never happens haha
I make the argument all the time with people that the abduction/potential murder of baby May is by far Norman’s biggest attack on Peter, and yet it is somehow not even real anymore. It’s a real pain point for me that the pregnancy is gone. Some of you may have caught it but my handle, Doc Folsome, is the wretched/slimy doctor who stole MJ/Peter’s child…so yeah, that storyline has impacted me.
I reread your Cobwebs article on Kindred, Mark. Am I thinking about this right, in my head, there is no way that the Harry Osborn that walked off with Normie and Liz at the end of ASM800 is the same as Kindred, right? Just seems like such a pivot that it can’t work. It has to be a different, more magically powered Harry. If that’s the case, the magically powered-Harry-Kindred (derived from the afterlife) could actually be aware of Baby May…
@Aqu@
If I understand what you tried to explain right, it’s that the older storyline were using more of a “fairy tale approach” while the modern stories are more grounded and “realistic” (or as realistic as one can be when writing the story of a man with superpower and spandex XD). And therefore since both style are so different they are difficult to compare. Is that right?
If that’s what you meant I guess I’d have to mostly agree with you. It’s like comparing Chaplin to endgame. Same media but too different to compare. However I don’t think that the character or medium changed that significantly in the past 20 years.
As for quantity… I’m 100% with you. My go to example is Slott. His run lasted for 200 issues but in the end almost nothing stuck with the character. Horizon lab, Parker industries, may and Jay, most of the new villains and supporting cast, Norman being kasady, Octavius not being a fat scientists without moral, Ben Reilly being jackal, so on and so forth… Everything has been either retconed or swiped under the rug. He wrote an insane amount of issues but in the end it didn’t even matter. All of these changes fail to stick in the mytho of the character. Meanwhile Lee+Kirby set the stages for most of what made Spiderman well… Spider-man. Hell to use the same example I used earlier JMS did more on his run than Slott, and it lasted for less than half of it!
I liked Mark’s theory, because it held potential in narrative terms if used well, but the idea of the lost baby is intriguing. In fact, may I point to the recent scene where Harry checked on his son, just before the confrontation with Peter? Almost as he thought: “I’m doing this for you and those like you. And me. Lost children.”
Harry the defender of children’s rights. I like it.
Just a doubt: why someone said BND erased the baby’s existence? I thought it was just a rejected and then forgotten plot point. The fact that Peter and MJ weren’t married at the time in new continuity doesn’t mean they couldn’t conceive a baby.
@Sthenurus
I totally agree with how destructive Bendis has been with his disregard of continuity, he is definitely overvalued. However I don’t feel he did as much damage on Venom as on any other character, because he did at least try to justify the existence of planet Klyntar, addressing Planet of the Symbiote as a group of symbiotes gone wrong. And the whole Spaceknight angle was written by another author, Bendis just namedropped something in his run, without going further (as usual -_- ). Even the idea that symbiotes are linked psionically was actually already present in PotS. Granted, I probably accepted the whole thing because I actually liked how Venom SpaceKnight was written, but it took me a while, so I understand where you come from.
Having said that, I’d still prefer if they left things a little simpler (and more scientific, so to speak) with symbiotes, like they were in origin.
Good point. I kinda agree and disagree. I’m having a hard time explaining further, but I’ll try.
I agree that in terms of quality standards, we should be able to compare. Obviously it’s a work for the authors, so they do it to earn money, however I think It’s fair to ask for quality from them; and yeah, decompressed storyline nowadays are used too often as a mean to increase financial gain: that’s just bad.
If it wasn’t clear, I’m all for a more compact narration like that of old. But I’m also aware that the classics from the ’60s were not always good in storytelling because of what we may call naivety. For example: in ASM 4 they just told the origin and powers of the Sandman on tv, so it’s of public knowledge, and then policemen don’t notice a pile of sand when searching for him, with even the narrator saying “who would think THAT’s him?”. I mean, come on, ANYONE who watches television would!
So it’s a bit difficult to compare them in term of content, because they belong to different times with different standards. It’s the same reason as to why it annoys me when they say Bendis+Bagley surpassed Lee+Kirby: yeah, they produced more issues, but they are completely incomparable in terms of quantity of content. Within the span of the same number of issues, Lee+Kirby have told much much more.
I’m not sure if I made sense, but I hope I did.
Re Baby May
I’m re-reading the ASM issues from right after the Clone Saga up until the 1999 reboot.
It’s definitely implied (heavily) that Mongrain had the baby. The last issue I read, ASM #420 or #421 had Mongrain on a boat somewhere in Europe, holding a baby’s rattles, staring through the bars of a crib. The Aunt May reveal makes no sense in that context, but we know that whole thing was an afterthought, brought about by fear of aging the character.
Still, I’d rather see OMD addressed than the baby. The way to solve the baby, imo, would be to leave it forgotten. Have Peter and MJ together, have them marry, and have MJ fall pregnant again. I’d love to see Peter as a father.
@Mark
Don’t bother digging up the clone saga, I just finished rereading the entirety of it (including all tie ins, miniseries, cameo, spin off and venom titles).
No mentions of baby may survival or whereabouts are to be found there. Just that Alyson Mongrain spirited away the baby to Europe. It was never made clear if baby may was dead or alive. Alyson reappeared later saying may was alive, but it was revealed to be aunt may and not baby may.
@All Y’all!
Great discussions! Sthenurus, never apologize for have a differing opinion. That’s one thing I like about the Crawlspace is that we can like and dislike different things, but when it all comes down to it, we just love Spider-Man comics. I hate it when someone doesn’t like what I do because they are missing out on the joy I have reading it and I love it when people like what I don’t because at least someone is enjoying the comic if I can’t!
I really like the baby May sin for the sin that neither can remember, Doc Folsome. I haven’t push all the edges to see if it holds water or not, but that would make sense. It is something that was undone by the deal, so neither would remember it. Peter is guilty because an innocent life was damage due to his lifestyle and Norman killing/stealing a baby goes much further than the usual Goblin/Spider-Man fight. For that matter, the baby’s whereabouts, to my knowledge, has never been verified, so who knows if Kindred will be able to “find” the soul that was lost. I may have to suck it up and go back to read that part of the clone saga again.
Michael, I don’t think Stromm’s return has to have any bearing on Norman’s return and just because Stromm survived a gunshot due to the formula doesn’t have to mean Norman would survive being impaled by the glider. But, I’m not 100% with my prediction. That was just my first gut reaction. Doc’s Baby May theory sounds better at the moment.
And Aqu@, he did have Norman make a Sins Past reference earlier, so who knows! I hope not!
Interesting theory Sthenurus, I like it. And you could take it a step further and say that the birth of Gabriel gave Norman another male heir to make Harry feel inferior toward but…
Two things against that notion though. The heavy allusions to BND/OMD in this arc, really point toward that as Peter’s sin at least. It would be really odd to have BND not figure into Kindred’s plot here.
Second, remember that Norman and Gwen’s affair occurred while he had ‘Goblin amnesia’ and after he had just saved Gwen and her father from the Kingpin. So conceiving a child with Gwen wasn’t an intentional attack on Peter. Sadly, at least at the beginning, it was a consensual attraction (as disgusted as it makes me feel to type that) . Also, at the time of the affair, Harry wasn’t on drugs, so he doesn’t have much (if any) culpability in the affair. Later, when Gwen goes to confront Norman about his attempt to adopt the twins, that is when Harry is on drugs (and Gwen dies soon after), but the cat is already out of the bag at that point. And, since all this occurred during a time when she was dating Peter, I’m not sure how much Harry could really be offended by it (again, aside from the Gabriel point I made earlier ;)).
If JMS had gotten his way with Sins Past, and Harry was the one who had the affair with Gwen…then it could work, but JMS was over-ruled by Quesada as we all know.
Sins Past could be lumped in with all the other lies and manipulation Norman has been involved in though, and thus part of his general maltreatment of his son, his death and subsequent transformation into Kindred…which is where I think this is headed.
But hey, if Spencer manages to retcon BND, I’m all for retconning (parts of) Sins Past as well…
@ Aqu@
To be fair cates had a lot of clean up to do after Bendis craped all over continuity with his spaceknight/gotg run. He did his best to crap on everything that came before or disregard it (the og planet of the symbiote, older venom miniseries and so on), as Bendis usually does. I really think the guy did more wrong than good to the industry (disregard for continuity on all title he touches, introducing decompressed storytelling that is the norm today…)
I kinda disagree it’s unfair to judge a comic with standard from 20 years ago. Like every form of art you compare it to what came before. Music doesn’t stop comparing new groups or artists to legend like the beatles or elvis or early madonna or eminem… Same with movies or books. Why should we lower our standard with comics? If they use decompressed storytelling it must be for a purpose other than selling 2 trades instead of 4 issues like the entire last remain (including the .lr) fiasco was.
You know what? Sin past would make sense as the mysterious sin. It’s right in the name, it involves both peter and norman and was the result of both men war against each other and selfishness, it’s indirectly Harry’s fault (she came to visit him after he Oded, and it would fit Harry’s unintended consequences idea), mj knew about it for years, and if Pete had given up Norman’s (and his) secret Harry would have never turned to drugs, Norman wouldn’t have been left alone with Gwen, the affair wouldn’t have happened and neither him or Gwen would have died, which in turn would have never made harry become the goblin and die as well.
Ah, I laughed hard at earth-1610 Aunt May! Well, it’s Bagley. At least he knows how to draw Spider-Man’s costume, doesn’t he?
Carlie with Overdrive: while I don’t mind them, I have a faint feeling that’s a bit out-of-character for her, what with her past and righteous tendencies. But maybe I don’t really know her, since she’s been a rather forgettable character.
I don’t have anything against non-linear narration, but it depends on how it is implemented. In general I think it’s not good if used over the span of multiple issues, especially if there is too much time in-between their publishing. In particular I find the way Spencer uses it to be irritating and confusing at times, maybe because it ends an issue with a cliffhanger that is not resolved right away at the beginning of the next one. Usually I would say that whoever can’t follow non-linear narration is either too old or not focused enough on the story, but with Spencer I’m in the same boat, so it’s the writer’s fault. :p (the sad truth is that I’m getting old too!)
@Sthenurus: well, as I always say, to each his own, so I’m not trying to change your mind.
As I was considering just yesterday, I think the opposite. I’m always skeptical when an author wants to deepen the lore of the symbiotes (maybe because I love how mysteriously they were depicted originally), fearing some contradicting nonsense, so I don’t really like what Cates is doing with Knull, especially after the great let down Absolute Carnage has been for me.
On the contrary, while I don’t think Spencer’s run is great for now, it had some good in it, like Hunted (the Gibbon issue!) and it really seems he’s doing some “healing” work on the character, like someone here suggested (Black Cat position as a queenpin sounds a little more sensible with his explanation). Sure, he’s taking too much time with Kindred, but it’s too early to judge.
I think it isn’t fair to compare today runs with ones from 20 or more years ago, because, unfortunately, the comic industry has changed and storylines are generally more decompressed as a rule. That’s not to say it’s good or right, I prefer that old writing style and I’m a big fan of PAD and JMS both!
And now that Norman is on board, it’s quite clear what the big sin is: Sins Past. LOL
The problem with the idea that Norman came back through a deal with Mephisto (and not the Goblin Formula as he claimed) is that Mendell Stromm ALSO claimed to have survived death due to the Goblin Formula. Did Stromm ALSO make a deal with Mephisto that the readers were never told about?
If I had to pick a sin from Norman, it would be his abduction of Baby May. Of course, OMD/BND ultimately removed her from existence. Interestingly though, it is possible that Harry would be aware of that abduction and this story does center around BND…but I don’t see that as a motivation for what Kindred is doing here. Plus, that’s really a sin directed at Peter. Kindred makes it seem as though the sin was done onto him.
I’ve been going back through the Child Within run in Spec. It’s an interesting story now knowing that Norman was alive and well at the time. The ‘Ghost Norman’ was intended to be a figment of Harry’s imagination, but what if Norman manipulated those events too. It’s a reach, but again, I feel like it is that type of torment that has made Harry a tortured soul.
But, yeah, you’re exactly correct, any single ‘sin’ from Norman’s past that is impactful, you’d think he’d remember it. That’s why I go back to the consistent mistreatment he directed at Harry as the ‘sin’, which sends him on the path to becoming the Green Goblin, and dying.
I’m familiar with Doctor Faustus but I did not know that was first usage of the devil on the shoulder trope, thats good info!
Sigh. I apologise in advance. I’m gonna be the party pooper.
First of all: great review. Reading your (and chi-towns’) review have become the highlight of my reading experience with asm. Great job to both of you. You rock.
I really like this issue. I did. But I am so tired of the tease. Tired of things going absolutely nowhere.
Spencer has been going at it for nearly 60 issues on the main title – close to 70 with the .hu and .lr issues.
And we are still nowhere near any kind of resolution.
For perspective:
-Peter david entire series on spiderman 2099 lasted for less than 60 issues including the specials, annuals and minis;
-jms entire run lasted about 70-80 issues. He added a ton of things to the mytho (the totems, aunt mays the conversation story, the 9/11 issue, pete as a teacher, sin past stuck for the wrong reason but still…);
-cates run on venom has been going on for half as long as spencers asm in quantity, about as long in real time. Yet it feels so much more fleshed out. He introduced so much stuff. Knull, dylan brock, the return of carnage, eddie’s and the symbiote development as characters… And it all felt organic.
Name me one memorable thing from the current run… Over 60 issues and I’m afraid this run will be remembered as “that time pete was roommate with boomerang and harry was a cockroach monster”…
Bagley’s art: i said it before and I’ll say it again: he is a great artist but his characters look too young. I feel like reading usm 300.
@Franz29, @AdamBParker, and @DocFolsome
Franz29 – Thanks for the compliment! It’s always appreciated! It’s why we do what we do here at the Crawlspace (we get started because we love Spidey – we continue because we love interacting with the Crawlspacers)! I read this the day it came out and was not distracted by the faces until Martin Li, but by then, Spencer had me hooked. I noticed it much more when I went back yesterday and this morning to write the review. We are not getting his best work and I believe a book of this caliber deserves the creative team’s best work. I hadn’t thought about that ending being a planned thing, but now that you mention it, it sounds a lot like how Spencer has been writing this, so maybe you have something. Or maybe he’s just pissed that Norman put MJ in danger and doesn’t believe that Norman is cleansed. Guess we’ll find out in the next fifteen issues!
AdamBParker – Glad you liked this one better! I hate to see fans not enjoying the ride. I’m so on board with Overdrive and Carlie and I don’t know why either. Who cares about either of them? But man did that little interlude make me happy! Weird. But I don’t care as long as I am enjoying it. I don’t think Mr. Negative and Martin Li have been split, but that’s a pretty good idea. Dr. Strange won’t let it go, but I’m betting we don’t see him for another ten issues at least. I think we will get something with Peter and Norman here and then lay low on the Kindred stuff for a while. Then Dr. Strange will come back with a you-idiot-you-made-a-deal-with-the-devil lecture. It seems like MJ knows what Peter forgot, but I don’t think she really does. And I certainly don’t think she knows what Norman did, but what do I know? Nothing! I only have this gig because I usually get the review out somewhat on time! (OK, Chi-Town, I didn’t this time, but still…)
Doc Folsome – Thanks for the kind words! I really have no clue what specific sin Norman did that upset Harry so much. I would have thought Gwen, but Norman doesn’t seem to remember it, so what the heck? And I do agree with you that it is something we the reader should be able to point to and say, “Oh! THAT thing!” and it was, I admit, the weak part of my review prediction. I’m inspired to go back and re-read the Goblin stories and try and figure it out. If Spencer would just stop cranking these out issues so fast to give me time! We’ve got ANOTHER ONE next week! Of course the reader in me is thrilled! It’s just the reviewer in me that wants a breath! By the way, Dr. Faustus is one of my all time favorite stories! Do you know it is the first time we have the devil/angel on the shoulder trope? Love that play!
@Patrick, @ac, @Zach, and @Chi-Town
Patrick – I’m sorry to hear that for you. I’m loving the run right now and wish all Spidey fans were too. I’ve been where you are and it’s no fun when your fandom isn’t delivering. Hopefully some of my enthusiasm will be contagious.
ac – Normally, I’m right in there with you on this non-linear story-telling crap, but I thought it worked well this issue, so I’m giving it a thumbs up. But I can’t argue that he doesn’t use it too much.
Zach – I have no idea what you are talking about!
Chi-Town – Man oh man! I so want a Heroes for Hire book with Boomerang and Overdrive! I’ll drop ASM to review it! It never crossed my mind that the “he” out to get Martin Li was anyone other than Mr. Negative. Maybe it is someone from his past. I don’t think so, though. I think Martin Li is just not wanting to undo what he did when he went to Sin-Eater to get rid of Mr. Negative in the first place..
Nice review Mark, here’s how I’ve been thinking about this…
In Spec200, Harry dies. What happens next? Does he go to Hell or go to Europe with his father?
Personally, I don’t think Harry’s life as the Goblin/etc would land him in Hell. He was troubled definitely, but not evil enough for Hell. But, nevertheless, let’s just say Harry was in the afterlife and not Europe.
But then Aunt May is shot, and Peter makes a Faustian pact, and the BND-universe is created. Peter’s deal with the devil can certainly be considered a selfish act and a lie. Everyone knows Faustian pacts have unintended consequences. Kindred is the unintended consequence.
Harry is ripped from the afterlife, because of Peter, and conditioned to forget everything by his father (that’s the European exile stuff mentioned in ASMF #4).
The lies that emerge from all that are immense.
So to answer your question, I think Peter and Norman did the same thing (create Kindred-Harry), just at different times. Peter, through his Faustian pact and the creation of the BND-universe, which pulled Harry from the afterlife (creating Kindred). And Norman through a lifetime of lies and maltreatment that led to an unstable life and ultimately to his ‘death’ in Spec200. Why can’t Norman remember it? Simple, it is way too many lies to remember…a lifetime’s worth. The .LR issues reveal how contrite Norman is over what he’s done to create this monster…which almost achieved what Kindred-Harry was after, an introspection of Norman’s wretched life as a lying father.
I know it’s anyone’s guess at this point, but I doubt Norman, from Hell, made a deal with Mephisto. He wasn’t dead that long, and he wakes up in the morgue not long after he’s impaled. I realize we can play the ‘time is different in Hell game’ but Norman wasn’t a character who was resurrected after years of having been ‘dead.’ Again, just my opinion.
This story has such an intimacy to it that I would bet whatever Norman and Peter did to Kindred-Harry, the readers have seen it already. It is not something that occurred off-panel or that isn’t previously established canon. Also, MJ is aware of whatever Norman and Peter did…and she would be aware of both of those things I mentioned above.
But, hey, it’s fun, it’s magic and the sign of a good comic, imo, is one that keeps you guessing as you work your way to the answer.
I was very down on last issue. The marketing and the hype from the editors had me believe this was going to be the end of the Kindred
Saga and possibly the resolution of OMD.
This issue reminded me to put my faith in Spencer. He is telling a long form story, and one that doesn’t need a checklist…when this is over it’ll probably need a whole index. And I’m in for the long haul. I really enjoyed this issue.
– Overdrive and Carlie Cooper. Don’t know what it is about that but I’m interested. Sign me up. For some reason it reminded me of when Flash dated Black Cat. Or Randy and the Beetle now that I think about it. Spencers run started with Peter and MJ needing another couple to go bowling with, now they have options. Does MJ have a friend for Fred?
– I think I might be the only Mr. Negative fan in the world. I like his look. I think his appearances are some of Slott’s strongest work (a low bar). I’m wondering if Li and Negative have been split into different bodies?
– A little disappointed Doctor Strange and Black Cat haven’t returned. Hopefully next issue. I expect Strange to be a presence in the book moving forward. I doubt he’s going to ignore what he’s learned.
– I definitely picked up on Harry saying Peter AND Norman need to remember what they did. That’s upset the theory board, but it might help with one thing that’s never sat quiet right with me. Kindred resurrected Mysterio before OMD. If OMD is the sin to confess, what was Kindred doing with Mysterio. I don’t think we can ignore Spencer’s hints at OMD, deals with the devil etc, but it looks like there may be something else from the pre-deal Peter’s life he needs to remember. Maybe OMD erased Peter’s memory of whatever this is. But MJ knows? Where was Norman circa Civil War/OMD, leading the Thunderbolts?
– I’m in MJ’s corner. Will always want them as a couple. I don’t know if it was initial by Spencer and Bagley to have MJ rescue the order of the web and escort them to safety but it made me laugh. Aren’t they supposed to be the Superheroes!? Does MJ know Spider-Gwen is a thing. I want to see that meeting!
Only one more Last Remains issue, and looks like Norman and Peter need to put there heads together.
Solid issue and another good review.
Like ac, I wasn’t a fan of the non-linear stuff on this one, especially after the cliffhanger of last issue. I had a fleeting thought I’d missed a .LR issue somewhere.
Interesting reveal about Norman.
I had issues with the faces (again). Bagley seems to be regressing in this area. You’d think he’d be good at them by now with all the talking head USM issues he worked on during Bendis’s tenure 😉 . Disconcertingly, his MJ does look a little too much like teenage MJ from USM, but you can argue that she’s just a “older model” in 616 (jk).
I wonder if Peter bursting in at the end was a planned thing now that will be revealed in future. It’s a distraction to get Harry away from Fisk. Either way, looking forward to the next issue.
That MJ/Peter scene warmed my heart, Mark and thanks for the bonus points. Fan mentioned to me that Martin Li may be worried that someone from his past is coming to get him. He was involved in human trafficking operations before he got his powers, so that may be what he’s worried about.
An Overdrive and Boomerang team up would be extremely satisfying.
Did Kingpin go to Skypeia to get that contraption that he stuck onto Spot?
I know Spenser loves to do this, but seriously, is there a law against telling the story in order? When i first started this comic it felt like I’d missed 56 LR or 55 and a half, or whatever they were doing with issue numbers… and in this case the out of order story telling I think sucked some of the tension out of the story instead of putting more in. I liked the developments of this issue, but the non linear storytelling is really starting to annoy me, for that I’d give it a C.
Definitely a stronger issue than a lot of Last Remains was, but it’s still not giving any answers to the questions we’ve had for several issues now. And with no date in sight as to when we’re actually going to get answers, I’ve lost my patience