Cobwebs #63: Spidey vs Firelord part 1

It’s one of Spidey’s most famous fights, but the one question everyone seems to have is, could he really beat Firelord?  Well, we here at the Crawlspace leave no stone unturned and have the definitive answer backed by research, math, and science!  Keep reading, Crawlspacers!
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This fight has been covered before here on the Crawlspace.  There’s George’s Friday Night Fight and it made Thomas Mets’s Crawlspace Top Fifty Spider-Man stories.  I’m sure that JR must have covered it at some point in Spider- History, though I can’t find it at the moment. But I think I can bring a different spin to it and most of all, definitively answer the question of could this really happen? Part 1 will deal only with the question – could Spidey actually beat Firelord?

 

The Tale of the Tape

When most people (including CBR) think of this story, their first thought is, ‘I like the fight, but Spider-Man couldn’t really take out Firelord.  He’s a herald of Galactus, for Pete’s sake!’  But, I’m here to give you the science on why Spider-Man could hold his own with the hothead from space.

To get the stats needed to compare them, I am going to pull from the authority themselves – Marvel.  Marvel.com has, for most of their characters, stats on how strong, smart, etc. they are.  When we think of a Spidey vs. cosmic battle, most of revert to the best-known herald – Silver Surfer.  Here is how Spider-Man matches up to the cosmic chrome dome:

Obviously, Spider-Man would not last long against the Surfer.  But in the immortal words of the Marvel RPG Battle Book, “Not all heralds are created equal, though, and vary in power.”

Tyrant, Galatactus’s first herald, is stronger than Surfer and maxes out the chart on every stat.  Terrax, while not as tough as Silver Surfer, is still stronger than Firelord by far.  Same with Star Dust.  We don’t get power stats for Air Walker, The Destroyer, Frankie Raye Nova, Morg, Red Shift, but I’m not sure if those stats changed while the Hearld), the Fallen One, or Golden Oldie (my favorite).  Based on their descriptions, it seems that Firelord may well be the weakest of the heralds.

Here is how Spider-Man matches up to Firelord:

So right there we can see that while Firelord has the advantage of speed and power, Spider-Man has the advantage of fighting skills and intelligence.  Otherwise, they are an even match-up.  Firelord relied too much trying to hit him with projectile fire blasts than making use of his power advantage.  Spider-Man makes better use of his fighting advantage.

Just to be fair, why I think the official Marvel site should trump all others, I did not slack in my research.  Here is a comparison of the two in the Marvel Super Heroes Role Playing Game.

Here, the advantage clearly goes to Firelord, but even here, it is still in the realm of possibility.  Just for comparison sake, in the MSHRPG, Silver Surfer is given unearthly in the strength category.  I also think it short changed Spidey a little.

 

But a Knock Out?

OK, but, you ask, how could Spider-Man knock him out when Firelord took a full building collapsing on him without becoming unconscious?  Good question.

Knocking someone out depends on the force of the punch, the speed of the punch, the strength of the receiver of the punch, AND WHERE the punch landed.  A study showed that elite level boxers could punch on average with 776 pounds of force with the highest being 1,300 pounds of force.  I think we can all assume that Spider-Man’s pounds per force is much greater seeing how he can lift upwards of 60 tons.  So, Paul Anderson held the world record for being able to lift 6,270 lbs.  That’s about 3.1 tons.  If we take that ratio of Spider-Man being about 20 times stronger, that means, unleashed, Spider-Man can throw a punch with upwards of 26,000 pounds of force (most likely more than that since Spider-Man can increase the pounds of force by hitting with greater speed).  So how much force does it take to knock out someone? Well, if you hit them in the right spot, say the jaw, very little.  I saw as little as 3.5 lbs of force to the jaw can knock out a human.  I cannot get that verified, but even if it is higher and then we accelerate that by Firelord’s ability to take a hit, Spidey landed several hits in rapid succession, mostly to the face and it is probable that at least one of those hit a weak spot like the chin, jaw, nose, or temple.

On top of this, Firelord has already had a building dropped on him and a gas station exploded on him.  His bell had already been rung some.

But wait, how come Spidey hits lesser thugs and doesn’t always knock them out?

It has been shown often that Spider-Man pulls his punches considerably.  It is rare to see him completely let loose for fear of permanently damaging or even killing someone.  Think about you playing around with your kid or brother or father.  Neither of you hit with as much force as you can.  Spidey is, at this point, hitting Firelord with everything he has.

But Firelord can unleash cosmic powers to level New York, can’t he?

So what?  He chose not to do so here.  He is acting like a suck-egg mule (as my momma would have  said), but that doesn’t mean he wishes to wipe out a whole city of innocent people.  Plus he has friends here that he would not wish to unnecessarily tick off (more on those friends in next month’s post).

 On top of all of that, Firelord is hangry and is acting out of anger, not out of skill.  So he is not using everything he has to his advantage.  Does that weaken Spidey’s case?  Absolutely not.  It’s the same as when a smaller, less skilled college basketball team takes out a high seeded team in March.  Even though they should have lost, things just worked to their favor that particular day.

Basically, Firelord fought Spidey on Spidey’s terms.  That’s a mistake any day.

So the Decision Goes to…

So the stats show that this fight is well within the realm of possibility and those that say otherwise have a better opinion of Firelord than he deserves.   In the immortal words of Captain Obvious:

Now that this is settled, next month we will look deeper into the story and show you that it doesn’t end or begin with these two issues.  There is more to this story than you may have read!  Plus, in a Crawlspace exclusive, I will reveal to you a hitherto unknown character in the Marvel universe.  Something maybe even the great Spider-Yoda himself didn’t know. Maybe.  See you in 30 days!  Until then, make mine Crawlspace!

 

 

Sources:

Adams, Cecil. “The Physics of Punching Someone in the Face.” Washington City Paper, 23 July 2010, www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/straight-dope/article/13039270/straight-dope-the-physics-of-punching-someone-in-the-face.

Cronin, Brian.  “The Wrong Side: Spider-Man vs. Firelord.” Comic Book Resources, 18 Mar. 2015, www.cbr.com/the-wrong-side-spider-man-vs-firelord/2/.

“Fallen One.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/fallen-one.

“Firelord.” Classic Marvel Forever, TSR, classicmarvelforever.com/cast/firelord.htm.

“Firelord.” Marvel, 2019,

“Galactus and Heralds.” Classic Marvel Forever, TSR, www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/galactus-and-heralds.html.

“Morg.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/morg.

“Nova: Frankie Raye.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/nova-frankie-raye.

“Paul Andersen.” Wikipedia, 9 Aug. 2019, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Anderson_(weightlifter).

“Red Shift.” Marvel, 2019,

“Silver Surfer.” Classic Marvel Forever, TSR, classicmarvelforever.com/cast/silver_surfer.htm.

“Silver Surfer.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/silver-surfer.

“Spider-Man.” Classic Marvel Forever, TSR, classicmarvelforever.com/cast/spiderman.htm.

“Spider-Man: Peter Parker.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/spider-man-peter-parker/in-comics.

“Stardust.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/stardust.

“Terrax.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/terrax.

“Tyrant.” Marvel, 2019, www.marvel.com/characters/tyrant.

Credible Hulk

 

 ‘Nuff Said!