Podcast # 420: Captain America Civil War Review

23 Comments

1. “That’s Next Generation, that’s not real Star Trek”.

   So many respect points lost so quickly JR.

2. @#18 Don and #20 Donovan — Oh, I liked the movie, too. In fact I loved every second of it, and gave a glowing review over at Whatever A Spider Can (the site I currently edit). Problem was, of course, I had to leave the podcast early and was a bit distracted, so my particular enthusiasm for the movie may not have come off as strong as I would’ve liked. I also felt Spider-Man was one the characters who stole the film, though yes Ant-Man and Black Panther also did so. I also disagree somewhat with the others that the film felt crowded because I thought the Russo brothers and the screenwriters did an excellent job in juggling more than a dozen different characters and that you understood where every single one of them were coming from, and why they did what they did. That’s not easy to pull off and I think this speaks very well of their talents as filmmakers. It’s also one the reasons why the airport fight works as well as it does, because you’re so invested in who these people are. That said, I do think a few characters could’ve been removed from the final cut like Everett Ross. Also, because it juggles all these characters, I do think the film should’ve been titled Avengers: Civil War instead of Captain America: Civil War.

3. If certain things bug as, we’re going to talk about them – but fairly, and we back our points up. For example, most of us didn’t like Aunt May being portrayed as “hot mom.” Yet I also reiterated how much of a Marisa Tomei fan I am and that I thought she’ll be great in Spidey’s solo movie. We’re going to be honest about things that didn’t work for us; we’re not going to pretend to like everything. We’re not going to pour gushing, obsequious praise over everything just because it’s Spider-related. That’s not us and it never has been. There are a lot of sites and podcasts that will give you that. But we respect Spider-fans enough to give our honest opinion on things, both positive and negative, even if its something others may not agree with.

   You say all you took away was a shrug and a murmur – that means you missed the times when we all also said we’re looking forward to seeing what they do with Spider-Man:Homecoming.

   The lowest overall grade given on the movie was mine, which was B-. That was for Captain America: Civil War overall, not just Spidey’s part in it. There was only one other B. Everyone else gave it an A grade.

4. Oh I don’t know…the image I took away with this episode was a shrug and a murmur. I mean there were definite positives espoused throughout, but they didn’t get much lip-service in qualitative terms compared to the time spent on what all was disliked in the film. And that’s fine, again to each there own. But if everyone at the very least liked the movie okay, it certainly didn’t strike me as such when listening.

5. @19 – “Holy crap, it comes across in this like NO ONE but Zach and Ashley liked the movie.”
   “Beyond that, the despondency towards this film was really astonishing.”

   You apparently missed all the parts where we talked about how awesome a lot of it was, especially Tom Holland.

6. Holy crap, it comes across in this like NO ONE but Zach and Ashley liked the movie. I think a lot of the criticisms in this episode are of the fanboy variety where I understand where they’re coming from. I can ABSOLUTELY see why people would have very real problems with Spider-Man. My personal biggest quibble is the Tony Stark ass-kissing, but that was only like two separate lines. Beyond that, the despondency towards this film was really astonishing. Some things I just don’t think are a big deal, like Ross and T’Challa sharing a scene or the public at large’s reactions. I can see why those are missed but they don’t negatively impact my perception of the film. I agree that Winter Soldier is a tighter, more concise film but I also think this is still the best Marvel movie. The build-up in developing the characters and concepts over so many years paid off so well in the MCU’s favor, there’s nothing like it in theaters right now. It’s way better than Avengers, which is little more than spectacle. But to each their own.

7. I have listened to the podcast and I have actually found an article that supports George’s assertion that Spidey was put in at the last second. Apparently Marvel wasn’t sure if Spidey would be in the movie so they sort of worked around the issue. http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2016/05/spider-man-was-in-and-out-of-captain-america-civil-war-says-writers/

8. 12- I’m not sure what agency the World Security Council falls under besides itself, but you do raise a point. Not to mention that the HYDRA infiltration and Project: INSIGHT was being built up right under their noses, so if we want to point fingers, it is kinda their fault. But, I feel that they technically do have a point. Without proper supervision, Tony was pretty much given free reign to build Ultron and reign hell across the world. So, it’s not really as much the Avengers fault as Tony’s, which kinda makes Tony even worse of a character because he drags others who were technically victims of his actions into his crusade.

   I’ll admit… I kinda like this Spider-Man. He’s obviously a game-changer, and is clearly important, even if he is shoved in a bit too clunkily. Seeing him hold his own against Falcon, Winter Soldier and even play a vital role in GiAnt-Man was really cool to see. And while his mouth could have a few more bars of soap there, I do think that it is a natural teenager-ish thing. I would know. I don’t know, maybe I’m just jaded from venturing too far into Slott’s fanfiction, but this was nice to see for me a competent, useful Spider-Man.

9. One thing I’d like to say: Spider-Man does not work for the United Nations. Only the Avengers as an organization does. Captain America and his team are outlaws (technically) because they went against the government. Spider-Man (nor any of the other non Avengers) work for the UN.

10. @13 – Regarding a schism… in the film, Stark does tell Hawkeye that he didn’t know the team would be imprisoned in an underwater compound. He even sees troubled by it – but at that point he’d already gone too far and had double down on douchery. His ego wouldn’t let him admit he was wrong. I do, though, see registration as a problem for Peter. That might be the deal breaker for him.

    I wouldn’t want him under Cap’s shadow any more than I’d want him under Tony’s, because I want him to be his own person. Because if anyone should get to be their own person in their own upcoming movie? It’s Peter Parker. 😎

11. Hey Spider-Cowboy George, here’s a question I’ve been wondering, having already seen the film and heard this podcast episode twice (I also went back and listened to episode 360 as well just for kicks): Do you think there could be a schism between Peter and Tony once the former becomes aware of the full details of the Sokovia Accords, as well as where Tony had kept the Avengers after the airport fight? ‘Cause I seriously doubt Tony told Peter the *whole* story. And that’s even counting the possibility of Steve wanting to keep an eye on the kid from Queens so as to make sure he doesn’t become a government pawn like Tony has. Heck, who’s to say Rogers might not approach Peter to warn him not to trust Tony too much?

12. @10. Yep. Thanks for clarifying my comment sounded like drivel

13. I still don’t understand how the government can claim that the Avengers need to be put in check for everyone’s safety when, if not for the Avengers, if the government had had its way, New York would have been leveled in order to “save it” during the Chitauri invasion. Can anyone shed some light on this? Maybe there’s just something I’m missing.

14. @6 – That’s right, when Zola’s algorithm talks about how Hydra infiltrated SHIELD and how it eliminated threats there is a headline about Stark’s family being in an auto accident. Nice! (it helps when the same guys wrote all 3 Cap movies).

15. @8 – Ordered it and it’s on it’s way. Looking forward to reading it and very glad it got an omnibus.

16. @7 – Get the Superior Foes. Do not hesitate for a second. You will thank yourself later. It is an insane book that will make you laugh out loud until your sides hurt.

17. Liked the podcast. I do agree that it was kind of obvious how Spider-Man was shoved in here, which likely detracted from certain other things like Black Panther. It was still nice to see him nonetheless and I liked Holland. Boseman too. Really psyched for both their films.

    My sister hasn’t seen it yet, but was incredibly happy when I told her that this Spider-Man has already been active for some time. She said she was sick of seeing his origin with Uncle Ben and just wanted to get on with it with the new movie.

    I ultimately don’t have too much of an issue with Stark helping with the suit for many of the same reasons Ashley mentioned. And I got the impression that while Stark provided the resources, the suit was still Peter’s design. What’s more, he at least designed the webbing and webshooters which shows off his intelligence.

    I do hop Stark doesn’t factor in too heavily in Peter’s full movie. The one line that actually bugged me was the one where he was talking about leaving a good impression on Tony, though on some level I can get it. Peter here comes across as a tech guy and such, so admiring someone like Tony for what he’s accomplished makes sense to a certain degree. Same sort of goes with everything else. I did love how Steve acknowledged him.

    I do wish that Peter had perhaps started questioning things more, but there probably wasn’t time and he isn’t the star of this movie. Maybe that could happen to a degree in his own movie and serve as a means to have him not get too involved with Stark.

    Speaking of which, I really hope we start getting more details soon. Most of all I want to know who the villain is. I still think Mysterio would be the best pick for a starter villain in these films. Him being a tech based villain also provides a possible reason to insert Tony, though I’d prefer they don’t go the route of making him an ex-Stark employee or something.

    The point about everyone getting older is a good one and how we’ve been introducing new heroes. I sort of feel like Peter could be their new Iron Man. Not in role (goodness knows we don’t need to be reminded of the current run and Peter’s too young for that anyway) but as the big star of the MCU. Him being so young means they could have him for a while so hopefully they let him get older, which only makes sense given his age.

    Only issue now is that I really want to read me some Marvel comics. I know what to get for Black Panther as they’ve been releasing the Christopher Priest run which I’ve always heard recommended. For Iron Man I’ve heard the recent Bendis comic is actually pretty good. But then there’s Spider-Man and there doesn’t seem to be any good Peter stories lately. Maybe Renew Your Vows? Also been meaning to check out Superior Foes now that there’s an omnibus and with the high recommendation here on the Crawlspace.

18. To all the hosts 😛 Hydra sent out to Kill the Starks all the way back at the CA Winter Soldier movie. That’s when Cap found out. The mind-computer told him and a newspaper flash is shown.

19. Ashley just got a lot of cred points from me for knowing exactly how young Spider-man would react by fighting with the heavy hitters. Overcompensating by being cocky. Not Pinning for attention.

20. @3 – Yes, fortunately we both made it just in time. Heh!

21. Did you make it?

22. FYI, on this review I debated whether or not the Spider-Signal (Brad refers to it as the ‘Spider-Symbol’) was what we saw being emitted at the end. After a second viewing, I now agree with everyone else. I had missed the actual signal on the ceiling yesterday because we started leaving right as Aunt May walked out of the room. Mostly because we both had to use the bathroom really bad.

23. I’m used to being in the minority when it comes to fandom. I never seem to agree with the overwhelmingly popular opinions on any given nerd subject. Case in point me being probably the only guy on Earth who doesn’t want to see Spider-Man cross over to Disney, the X-Men EVER leave Fox, and the only fan who could care less if the Fantastic Four stay with Fox or go over to Disney.

    I’ll keep this about Spidey and Disney.

    When rumors ran rampant that Sony and Disney would share Spidey in the films, I actually felt annoyed at the idea. While Sony had failed Spidey big time with the release of that laughably bad TASM2 flick, and the leaked emails showed us just how insane their movie execs were going further with the films, I felt stuck in a rock – hard place scenario when I considered what it would mean seeing Spidey over at Disney.

    For one, we’d be losing Spidey being Spidey. With Sony, there wasn’t a shared universe, so Spidey pretty much WAS the de facto hero of his own city, his own universe. I enjoyed going into a Spider-Man film knowing I would see Peter interact with HIS supporting cast and deal with HIS villains on his own without the aid or back-up of other outside heroes. We’ve been seeing this for years in the books and cartoon. Spider-Man, as stated so frequently on this site’s podcasts, can’t be the hero of his own goddamn book, and has to always depend on the Avengers to deal with villains, his own rogues, he’s fought over and over for the entirety of his superhero career. The Spider-Man franchise, which used to feel like its own powerful totem in the Marvel universe, has been just a branch of the Avengers tree, and instead of feeling like his own character, he’s become a “spin-off” of the Avengers franchise when this was never the case before!

    I feared Spidey coming into the Disney Avengers movieverse would just further push Spider-Man deeper into the Avengers world.

    And there’s something critically wrong with seeing a Peter who has to be tutored and groomed by Tony Stark…and/or Steve Rogers and/or ANYBODY. One of the things I’ve always loved about Spidey’s history is that everything that Peter has accomplished as a hero, he accomplished on his own. He didn’t have the Avengers, Stark or anyone else, to show him the ropes, improve his web-shooters, tailor his costume, teach him how to be a better hero. Everything that helped groom Peter into Marvel’s greatest superhero, he did on his own. People got extremely upset with Uncle Ben and Ben’s life-lesson of Power/Responsibility being shafted so badly in the Sony reboot movies; I say the Disney movies (if they go down this route) having Peter being molded by other heroes is just as offensive.

    My enthusiasm was made worse knowing that Spider-Man’s 1st movie in this Avengers world is going to feature Tony Stark. I want to be proven wrong come 2017, but suffice it as I stand just from the sampling I’ve seen in Civil War, Stark could have a lot to do with Peter’s heroic life in his next “first” film.

    I have other personal gripes (or rather potential fears) about this brave new direction of the Disney take on Spider-Man, including the fact that all the villains I would want to see have already been done (and the remainder don’t appeal to me enough to have a whole movie with them) as well as concerns about the high school/teeny teenager angle…I’m sure this is going to make me sound elitist or entitled, and if you think that, that’s not entirely false. The fact people seemed to neglect is that we’re all fans of Spider-Man, if not Spider-Man then everyone is a fan of something, and if any given fan honestly believes they aren’t a little “selfishly entitled” to whatever fandom they follow, they’re full of it. We all like what we like, and we all know what it is we like about what we like. I’m not posting this to rally people against this new Spider-Man and what’s in store for us later, I’m only contributing to a board that encourages talk on the matter, and this was something, out of boredom, I couldn’t stop thinking about, so I wanted to put it into words.

    Civil War did not leave me wanting more Spider-Man. It’s a difficult place I find myself. Sony wouldn’t have done right with the character given the telling plans they had, and considering the “good hands” of Disney have steered Spider-Man in the books and cartoons and video games into where he’s been, and after the taste I got in Cap 3, I’m just as hesitant to see where that leads us.