If anyone has been missing the Skype chats, you’ve been missing alot. One of the games we’ve recently come up with on the Skype chat is taking selected scenes from Spidey’s history and revising them to fit the “Brand New Day” timeline. Take this above picture, from Spectacular Spider-Man issue 194, for instance. How does this work in a world where Peter and Mary Jane were never married. Let’s find out..
Whoila! Continuity problem solved. More gems like these will be a regular feature now by popular demand. Fixing Marvel’s continuity one panel at a time.
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Very funny Bertone. Proof positive that you can’t “fix” things with one line of dialog and it expect the scene to have the same depth of meaning. Of course, Marvel can still claim it “all happened the same”, but it clearly will not have the same meaning… sorry to state the obvious.
The day is saved again.
my brain hurts now. Does anyone else’s brain hurt? mine does.
Who knew Spider-Man liked Dong Bang Shinki?
Can’t wait for the rewrites of JMS and Michelinie.
Bertone, like I said before in my first post on this thread: I thought it was damn funny. 🙂 Good job.
And Wellness aka Zarius you have your 3rd warning and are banned. You’ve created a new id and as you are well aware you were previously banned as Zarius. To the rest continue talking about the funny caption.
Just re-read it this afternoon and yep – it’s still funny.
I mean to say “altered in other ways that make more sense”
Yeah Dan I’m sure the scene could be altered in others fan. But then it wouldn’t be as funny… 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it!
Oh, and if I had to pick a positive about OMD/BND, it’s that it removed all the angst and fall-outs (the unacceptable ones) from the marraige so that any other version of it looks unproblematic and more inspirational.
I know you were joking, but why imply I don’t live on Planet Earth? I am not delusional by any means.
On what I consider Planet Earth (unless you think I live in another continuity set on planet Earth), there is more than one Spider-Man title. There is more than one “defining path”. Stan Lee still has Peter and MJ married (the creator and WORD OF GOD for all things you have read and are writing for generations to come), Spider-Girl has been around for eleven years, a story which takes a discarded element of ASM continuity and grows her into a hero that is as grand and iconic as her father, one I would love nothing more than for that to be bigger than it is (I recognise that is the true definition of a minority classic, and thus likely will have to wait another eleven years for an extra reader let alone a cartoon series), and Ultimate Comics Spider-Man, and Marvel Adventures Spider-Man indulge in a younger, exuberant Peter Parker. Where does ASM fit into your equation on Planet Earth these days?
The only answer would be “flagship brand and the title where everything important happens to our hero…ever”
Sorry. Nothing doing. Everything important happened to ’em. The character is MORE than defined now. So all I see in the equation is “Let’s play in the sandbox while there’s still some in the hourglass”. T
The positive fans are not in the minority….I would apply that much more to their manners than their numbers. Granred, as proven by me, “manners” applies to either side of this enterprise. Nevertheless, if, by some divine miracle, the heavens opened and down came a flock of pro-BND angels on winged halos dropping thousands of copies of BND for you to sign with some mystical pen, they would be welcomed with open arms, even if they become disgusted with the criticisms and jokes aimed against the product they adore, we would not be telling to get the f out, that would be their choice. They CHOOSE to be less active, they CHOOSE to be “intimidated”, and they CHOOSE to be in the minority. We don’t do anything other than make a conscious and free choice to say how we feel and make light of a most polarizing situation.
I AM a fan of yours. I have your entire run on She-Hulk. I have Spider-Man/Human Torch. I have read your married Spidey stories, and I thought you would be a guiding hand in helping me enjoy a bad direction. Alas, I don’t like your work on ASM, I don’t like a lot of the work other writers have done with ASM. I can’t tell if that’s because of the mandates or trying to justify the mandate…but I feel you could have done it better, and it’s just gotten worse. That’s not a case of “deliberatly finding flaw”, I’m a critical objective person. It’s not easy for me to say I don’t like most of the work in ASM, but I don’t like Bendis’ work on New Avengers, but loved his run on Daredevil and Ultimate Spidey. Mark Miller? Hate his work on Fantastic Four and Wolverine, but love his work on The Ultimates. The distaste I have for the webheads is not unique to ASM.
Marvel as a whole has had some questionable directions over the years. ASM is not alone and it will be joined by others in the future, but it stands out as a rather prickly pear because of how much is at stake. It is the flagship brand, the greatest Marvel hero of all, it’s also the one with the most reboots/controversies surrounding it. I DO understand how difficult it is to be part of a tapestry as erratic as that, I want you to know that. I understand your job, and so long as you are living the dream (an american dream in more ways than one), that is something I can only be proud of. What I don’t appreciate is some of the reactions to the challengers of that dream. There are better ways of dealing with that, and Quesada’s always been the best at it, despite coming up with what you and your team have been saddled with.
I’m glad that you can take this all on the chin and recognise “heat of the moment” comments for what they are, because a lot of writers can’t do that, it’s just I wish that more understanding side came out more. Throwing your hands up and labelling CS as overtly “negative” just because we’re laughing at what we should be angry about…but instead we are having a good time…even you are having a good time. We are all enjoying something that has come out of a difficult and polaraizing time for Spider-Man fans no matter the pedigree, be it fan or writer, we’re having a hearty chuckle…and then someone came in acting like Marge Simpson reacting to Bart and Lisa watching Itchy and Scratchy. It’s too bad you didnt post before all of this happened and put fears to rest before bob got worked up over nothing…or maybe he would have, and I probably would have said the same things I did above…because I DO feel we are being bullied and intimidated on many an occasion, and I suspect this will continue for years to come while BND continues it’s slow and unfolding series of stories.
But since you can apologise for whatever has happened before and for what will assuredly come in the future, I apologise in advance for everything I’ve said today and for anything I say for all the tommorows left in BND’s run.
After all…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBnyvF8j6bQ
Wow, I go to bed and wake up to find this. LOL
Wellness: You have two warnings, one more and you’re banned. The first warning is for using the “C” word. Come on, really? Why would you use that in your argument if you wanted to be taken seriously? You lost all credibility to your argument when you break down to personal attacks and using that word.
The second warning is for saying, “It’s clear as day the webheads don’t care”. Don’t personally attack them.
I thought about giving you a third warning for the line, “but frankly, couldnt give a toss what anyone thinks of it.” That’s really spitting in the face of everyone here at the site and it’s readers.
Dan Slott: Yes, people can speak their mind and I can respectfully disagree with you about the negativity of the site. However, I think you’ve made your point about what you feel about the site. Continuing to bring it up makes you no better than the people continue to harp about the Mephisto deal. I would think that you and Marvel would want the argument to die down and get buried. Baiting the die-hards that they’re being negative just makes them embrace their negativity even more.
And I totally agree with the poster that compared the above panel to a political cartoon. If I didn’t get a laugh out of the picture I wouldn’t have agreed to make it a regular feature for Bertone.
Wellness, w/ your rat’s posterior and female anatomy comments… how would anyone ever get the idea that the crawlspace skews negative? 😉
It’s not that the webheads “don’t care” about the Spider-marriage or “don’t believe” in the Spider-marriage or “refuse to respect MJ’s characterization as an adult”. That’s just they hyper-charged rhetoric of an admittedly angry fan. I’ve written stories with a married Spider-Man, so have many of the current writers. I enjoyed the heck out of all the married Spider-Man stories I got a chance to tell. And I’m enjoying the heck out of the work I’m doing on Spidey now.
To paraphrase Barney Frank, the current writing team are writing stories on “Planet Earth.” In 2007 there was a continuity shake up. In 2008 the new writing team took over the book– a book with a single Spider-Man– and that’s the Spider-Man we were hired to write stories for, that we wrote stories for, that we’re writing stories for, and– since this is planned out for years to come– will continue to write stories for. That’s the Spider-Man book that’s coming out here on “Planet Earth”. If someone thinks they’re going to get to write and/or read about a married-Spider-Man in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man, they’re not on “Planet Earth.” Is me saying it this “Frank-ly” going to tick some people off? Well, yeah. And I’m sorry for that. I REALLY AM! But here’s the thing, I RESPECT your intelligence. And to tell you anything else, to sugar coat it, or to pander to you would be LYING to you. This is how it is.
As for the negative skew on this board, I have no problem pointing that out. I think it’s pretty self evident. I’m not saying that there AREN’T positive posters here. There are. And, here on the CrawlSpace, IMO, they’re in the minority. You guys don’t want me saying that, take me off the board. A lot of you make the point that the CrawlSpace is the “one place where you’re not censored and can speak your mind.” Fine, if there is so much freedom of speech here, isn’t it the right of some posters to speak out and address the negative skew? Or is that freedom of speech not so free when it comes to discussing the tenor of board itself?
Post a link
Embed Fail. 🙂
1. You don’t enjoy picking it apart. Others do. Get over it.
2. So long as people like take something as innocent and barely offensive as THIS far too seriously, the conflicts won’t just continue, they’ll become even SILLIER
3. I take full responsibility for that comment, but frankly, couldnt give a toss what anyone thinks of it.
4. …Or, alternativly, you could just count MC2, since that’s pretty much the only continuity worth a damn beyond the Ultimate Universe saving this franchise where others degrade it and the characters…or better yet, the newspaper strip since the psychic blindspot actually makes every other usually-cluless guest hero/villain look justified in their confusion. As Slott says, “use your imagination” (and un my case, use it where you know your intelligence isnt being insulted…i.e “far away from BND”). Pardon me if I go with the directions that Tom and Stan Lee go with, not what flavours-of-the-month pretentiously say and do. There is no such thing as continuity anymore, that’s a reality I assuredly can live with,
Spider-Man has gone to the dogs, and “using your imagination” or “pretending A, B, and C, still leads to X, Y, and Z” is the denile I was referring to in the earlier post. The only way to reconcile the Chapter One, JMS, and BND canons is to reboot the whole thing and create a “Man of Steel”-esque mini-series that is essentially a “New reader’s guide to Spidey”, in a similar manner to the director’s cut of “The Clone Saga” and join the neccersary dots. Leave classic stories alone, leave the marraige alone, don’t rewrite ONE page, and let MC2 carry the load of an uninterupted, true-to-form Spider-Man mythology…while 616 does everything it can to ruin said mythology, but at least isnt dragging stories we know and love down with it like they mean nothing.
The reality is that there has been THREE continuityis in the last ten years (Chapter One, JMS, now BND). Two of them didnt stick. This one won’t either. NOTHING lasts forever. I don’t have anything against pro-BND fans who can actually ACCEPT this and enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts…but come to terms with how trite and finite any kind of post-1997 Spider-Man continuity is.
Not sure if this will work, and I hope it is acceptable to embed things like this, but I thought this was highly appropriate to the above conversation.
Slott, if the webheads gave a rat’s ass about the comic those panels came from, you would not think once about changing those lines to something as degrading as “will you spend the night with me?”…I mean COME ON. That scene is about emphasising how strong their marraige and their bond as a FAMILY exists. “Spending the night” is reserved for generic boyfriend/girlfriend types. Peter and MJ were FAMILY, they had ALWAYS been family, established almost from the outset.
It’s clear as day the webheads don’t care about the marraige, don’t beleive in the marraige, and worst of all, refuse to respect MJ’s characterisation as an adult during the marraige/relationship. The MJ in the current crop of BND storylines ISNT what MJ would do and if it werent for the deal with Mephisto probably explaining it, it doesnt change the fact that’s something she wouldnt do either. Marvel have tried to ruin this character for god knows whatever reason…though I suspect it’s largely because MJ took Peter away from the webheads back when they were reading the comics and they resent her for it, resent her enough to undo all the great writing and strength she represented and turn her into a devil-dealing cipher, all to make Peter Parker less of a hero and an icon, as well as devalue her as a hero and an icon. There is no “deflowering” of this scene neccersary
I still find it ironic the only person I have never had any real apathy for out of this whole mess is Joe Quesada. Maybe it’s because one of his tasks is “Public Relations” and trying to sell his controversial decisions and mandates in a positive way, maybe it’s because he feeds fans of the marraige little bones here and there to nibble on, maybe he’s just a classy kind of guy, but the fact none of his behaviour has rubbed off on the webheads is proof they ought to start following his example rather than troll relentlessly on the Crawlspace calling it “negative”, like it has an agenda? It’s no better than taking advantage of someone’s hospitality and slapping them in the face. They have welcomed you into their home and you burn it down in front of them…then hide behind all the fans who warm you with praise and positive happy thoughts, ignoring what just happened.
This is the changing climate I was referring to in the earlier post. That professionals are starting to think they are above the customers because they make money off their ideas and the fans, the customers, arent. It’s a poor attitude, and one that Karma is ripe for tasking.
That may be OTT…but hey, whoever said being OTT wasnt valid?
1. imo, it’s only funny if you enjoy picking apart OMD/BND, which I don’t. 2. People will be unable to move on and get on with each other as long as there are ‘Reminders’ like the above strip and sites that condone and encourage it. 3. Such language is completely inappropriate for an all ages site such be this one. If my son saw that word I would be livid. 4. Frankly, I see no need to rescript older issues: the marriage happened at that time of writing, it just hasn’t happened now. Same with the mind wipe: people did know, now they don’t.
1) Hey, I thought that was damn funny.
2) bob, since I’m on the other side of the fence (for obvious reasons), boy, do I see where you’re coming from. But I can see how the anti-side feels bullied, in the same way you probably feel that when some of these guys are posting outside of the crawlspace how– after 2 years– from your POV it probably feels like someone trolling with the same posts over and over again. BOTH of these opinions are the most polarized views of what are basically passionate fans. I applaud the passion. But it’d be nice if we could all get along and move on– or at least– move on from these polarized views.
3) The c*nt comment? Bit over the top. BD? Can we get a ruling on that?
4) As for that scene from SPEC– joking aside– the new dialogue would probably be something with a similar romantic sentiment (in a comics code approved way) that wouldn’t involve marriage– for example, Peter asking MJ if she would “spend the night” with him for the first time– and she’d say something back about how she’s already “spent the night” with him before– and he tell her something as equally mushy, like how for him every time she “spends the night” it’s like the first time.
It’s fun to joke about this stuff– and pretty easy to take shots too. But if you just look at it for a second and use a little imagination, you can find a suitable parallel that keeps the spirit and tenor of the scene.
Ok, I don’t think I’ve ever pulled rank on the main page, but what’s going on here needs to stop! While I can understand from where you are coming from, bob, this was meant as a joke. And Wellness, there is no need to attack the writers, here or on the MB. We are not that kind of site! Also, I would really appreciate if you not use the C-word. It is an extremely derogatory term, especially towards girls.
wow. A few thoughts: pro side are the bullies? Is that why the haters on this site frequently insult and attack both creators and posters alike, as you yourself have just done? c@nts, really? it’s ok to call a creator that on here? as far as i can see,zeta house was created as a place where the pro side could post without fear of having to defend their view point or of being attacked by the haters. yet in your world the pro side are bullies? unreal. oh and btw , fyi, bnd IS here to stay, the alternative is for marvel to cave in to a minority of loud, abusive fans who want ‘their’ spidey back, and to hell with people who are actually enjoying the current issues. Oh, dr who? I’O a big fan of both modern and classic, so your analogy is lost on me.
bob, I wouldnt worry about the crawlspace’s sense of wry humour and criticisms of a piss-poor direction casting every one of us in a negative light, I would blame that more on how feckless and intimidating the pro-BND bullies of the fandom react when said humour and criticism is present. It’s THEM that have done more damage than anyone who can laugh at Marvel’s expense. It’s not entirely unique to Spidey either, it’s happening with Doctor Who fandom too (“if you don’t like the new series, you’re every name under the sun, the writers know best, you make us all look bad, blah blah blah blah”). It’s them that bring us all down, as well as the writers (worse off when the writers encourage that behaviour, and in Dan Slott and Steve Wacker’s case, pave the way and embrace being bullies and complete c*nts.)
That does not mean EVERY pro-BND fan is like that, I think we have a very respectable balance of pro and anti-fans, but there are enough examples of the more aggresive pacts for it to not only be fairly typical, but also enough to perpeuate the problem far worse than having a laugh at BND’s VERY visible creative flaws and lazy forward-thinking. It’s those camps of fans you should direct your rant towards and not someone having a laugh.
By your logic, newspaper cartoons that make light of politics and current events should all stop because that too has been “going on far too long” since well past the 19th century.
Don’t tell ANYONE to “give it up and move on”, or “you should have made peace with it”. I could easily argue that you need to give up this notion people can keep staring at a train-wreck without feeling sorry for how mangled the passengers are.
There will be more stupid directions long after BND is finished, that’s just the nature of the comic industry, and complaining will never change…in most cases (and in Spider-Man’s case, “MOST” applies), the criticisims are perfectly valid. If we are painted in a “bad light”, it’s mostly by people who are weak-minded or kiss Marvel’s ass blindly rather than “enjoy the diversity” (that’s a Stan Lee quote by the way).
An incapability to adapt to change and deal with it is why Quesada went the way he did with the marraige rather than advance it with a baby and grow the characters further. It still amazes, even amuses me that there are still camps of these feckless idiots insisting that BND is here to stay in light of every “CHANGED FOREVER” moment Spidey has endured the last near-twenty years, only for it to be over and done with in HALF that time. What the hell do they take? Human Denile Hormone? I feel that’s more silly than “not getting over BND” and having a laugh at people who deserve to be ridiculed for acting like diengenious muppets online AND showing it through their products.
Everything has it’s time. Everything dies. BND won’t last forever. You know it. Stop raining on the parades of people who not only know it, but wish to point it out.
Props Bertone!
Bob, I’d argue that Quesada and co. should’ve gotten over the marriage. They had twenty years to get over it and they didn’t.
no disrespect intended Brad, I just feel that all this has gone on for too long now, and frankly, this kind of mentality is begining to cast all spidey fans in the same light. that we can’t let go and love nothing more than to constantly complain about every aspect of current ASM issues. if you’re still reading then by now you really should have made peace with it, to constantly poke the bear with a stick seems petty and counter productive imo.
Brad and I talked about this very carefully. I don’t see this as negative at all. It’s us making light of the situation and presenting the humorous side of it. In fact, I don’t see any negative words in the post at all.
Sorry Bob, but this is an important look at how things have changed in light of “everything still happened – except the marriage and the baby.” It’s fair to explore how classic scenes and moments in Spider-Man history apparently really played out in a post-OMD/BND/Brandnewverse world.
Bertone is doing Spider-Man fandom a service.
And this *is* funny.
LOL, Hi Bob have we met on the boards before? I’m a pro-BND-er and find it very funny.
Jesus, when are you guys gonna let go of this? It’S not funny, just sad, and exactly the sort of thing that’S currently giving this site a bad name
Thanks to the Skype chatters who suggested and inspired these!
Major props to Bertone. Very funny stuff.
Can’t we just focus on making sense of the dailes instead? ^_^
Ah, carry on folks, this is gold. The “Appendix” one had me in stitches.