This post makes me very sad. On his Formspring account, Editor Tom Brevoort fielded a question about the Spider-Marriage. Here it is:
Question: If another writer wanted to pitch a story that involved peter marrying mary jane again but it was done in a logical and thought provoking manner would you guys at marvel consider it? I’m just curious or do you guys want peter to remain young (like a teenager) forever? If you have gotten sick of the marriage questions then you don’t have to answer it. By the way I really enjoyed the Scarlet Spider (Kaine) title and I was sad to see it go any chance of another ongoing series with Kaine?
Tom Brevoort: Anything can be pitched. But I think the odds of us going down that road again, especially with the same characters, is about as close to nil as it could possibly be.
And Kaine’s appearing regularly in NEW WARRIORS at the moment.
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@#33-The only things the writers couldn’t do with them married was stuff which were asinine in the first place
Writers and editors control the story. It wouldn’t have mattered if Peter and MJ had been married when SSM happened, it would have been figured out, even if it involved putting MJ in suspended animation, or Otto mind-controlling her, or who knows what. All this talk about the writers not be “able” to do this or that if they were married; all bosh.
@#30-Superior Spider-Man didn’t work with a SINGLE Spider-Man! But the thing is, whilst it wouldn’t have worked either way (and frankly it wasn’t a great storyline in the first place) it actually could’ve partially worked with a married Spider-Man. MJ clocks something is wrong so Otto imprisons/mind controls her and makes a cover story. Boom. Now a married Spider-Man can participate in the BS that was Superior
@29 – I don’t have to nitpick what stories are worthy of separation because you’ll just negate my picks with your biased criticisms…. Suffice to say, as I stated in my original post, I prefer the single Spider-Man stories over the married ones… Both situations have their gems & duds, but overall, a single Spidey works better for me, while it doesn’t for you.
Thanks for your time.
@#20 (NickMB)
Reed & Sue weren’t married when they were created, they got married in Fantastic Four Annual #3. But in #28 you’re absolutely right, Superior Spider-Man wouldn’t have worked with a married Spider-Man – and that was a great, great storyline (still kind of bummed it’s over…I’m going to miss Otto!).
Anyway, the Spider-marriage will only come back if Marvel thinks there’s money in it. That’s the bottom line. And considering their penchant for (usually quite enjoyable, IMHO) stunts and events, it could definitely happen one day (although they’d probably get as much mileage/publicity out of them ‘merely’ getting back together). Personally, I grew up with married Spidey (the wedding special was one of my first comics, actually), so I would like to see the marriage return at one point or another, but I’ve been enjoying single Spidey (and post-OMD in general) a lot as well. The biggest problem with MJ and Peter not being married/together anymore is that it’s hard to keep Mary Jane in the book and give her meaningful storylines – unlike, say, Lois Lane, who works as part of the Superman mythos by virtue of her being Clark Kent’s colleague.
@#28
And in the end, it wasn’t even worth it. Making him single just made him look like less of an a**hole than he was being made to look by Ock.
@#27
Yeah, it is. And I’m stickin’ to it. Now can you name any others?
@26 The whole Superior arc would’ve been difficult (if not impossible) to pull off with a married or cohabiting Spider-Man. Whether it justifies it in terms of quality is obviously up to the individual, but in terms of practicalities, it is a story they probably couldn’t have done with the marriage – at least, not to the length/scale they wanted.
And that’s your opinion… 🙂
@#25
I have YET to see a story writtrn that justifies the break-up. The best they can come up with is “will he or won’t he sleep with her?”
I’ve been reading Spider-Man for 39 years… so I’ve had 20 years of married Spider-Man, and 19 years of single Spider-Man… and while there may be a few gems in the marriage rough, I PREFER single Spider-man… pre-1987, and post-2008… not all the stories are great, but they are much more enjoyable TO ME when he’s single…
I found the marriage stories got old and prosaic very fast… and it was difficult to relate to Peter because no matter how difficult his life as Spider-Man was, he had a hot comforting red-head to go home to… it just took away from all the self-sacrifice that Peter used to endure based on his “do the right thing” decisions as Spider-Man.
I realize I’m in the minority here on this board, but my opinion is as valid as anyone else posting here.
Thanks for listening.
Yeah, you can’t have a bunch of 20- and 30-something guys validly complaining about MJ and the marriage. What’s so thick-headed is that they didn’t want them to divorce, then divorced them. Now they’re left with a popular character (MJ) and no idea what to do with her.
Just remember… all our problems started here…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Quesada
@#9-It’s not legitimate because a creators desire for something new shouldn’t trump a) what the audience want and after 2 other attempts and a positive reception of MJS’ handling of it it was blatently obvious that the Spider-Man/romantic situation Marvel were trying to peddle with Spider-Man was NOT what the audiences wanted b) they did this in the reboot so how was it new c) none of the Post-OMD creators had done anything significant work with Spider-Man so they hadn’t done anything with the marriage to want something new, they basically wanted to write the Spider-Man of their youth d) if their desire to try something new was damaging to the franchise (and yes OMD inherently was) then that’s being short sighted, perhaps even selfish.
I gave the single Spidey titles a try for the first two months or so, then gave up on buying any more Spidey comics. This breaks my heart, and I’m sticking to my guns…The Spiderverse won’t get any of my money until Peter is back with MJ.
@!5 As a rule, if the character wasn’t married when they were first created, the marriage probably won’t last. Pretty much applies to everyone, not just Spidey. Which means Reed and Sue Richards might be one of the only safe marriages at Marvel.
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones seem to be doing alright too, perhaps because married family-man Luke is the first version of the character to really find lasting success, so they don’t want to ruin it.
@18 – That’s about what I expected from Stan. He’s always remained neutral about the more controversial modern stories.
“Well, I think it was good in the sense that it made a lot of people sit up and take notice and it generated a lot more interest in Spider-Man. But I must admit I agree with you, it wasn’t typical of the Spider-Man we have known and I think they’ll either going to get back to the normal Spider-Man and Mary Jane relationship or they’ve maybe already done it… they will, sooner or later they will, I’m sure of it” – Stan Lee
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2009/08/21/stan-lee-talks-spider-man-one-more-day/
Has Stan lees ever said his thoughts on one more day, Brand New day, and omit? Since he initiated the marriage, it would be interesting to know his thoughts on it.
@15 it’s not really just Peter’s, at DC the 52 took Superman and Flash’s marriages. Marvel annulled the Black Panter/Storm marriage after only a few years. It’s a trend that’s happening in a number of series.
I think the biggest gripe is that creators tell fans it was done so they would have the freedom to tell more stories, but in most cases nothing ground breaking or original has occurred.
@14, I think that’s one of the biggest gripes Spider fans seem to have since its only Peters marriage that seems singled out. Yes admittedly other than the Richards’, very few other marriages are even remembered or acknowledged, but it’s still the point that Peter is forced to be frozen while other characters can wed.
… then why don’t you just level out the playing field, Marvel. Get rid of ALL the Marvel marriages. Be fair and screw over EVERYBODY.
Well, as often as they recycle stories and tell us we’ve been reading too long if we call them on it, I’m sure they’ll run out of ideas and recycle the Pete and MJ get married story again.
Even failing that, the current regime won’t be in charge forever. I can’t see everyone from now until the end of eternity being against Pete and MJ being together.
@#8- Because it wasn’t about trying something new. It was about hitting the easy button and thinking it was going to make things better. It was about trying to make the character more marketable and fit within their pre-written narrative for what they wanted to do. And Marvel really has no problem with repeating the same relationships with the same characters in other books.
And Breevort has argued for the fact that not having a married Spider-Man makes it easier for the writers. So, yes, I will call that laziness because he’s essentially arguing for the ability to not challenge writers.
Granted, I don’t think this is a legitimate reason, as I doubt something like Superior was easy to pull off. But that just shows that their claims as to what they want doesn’t match up with what they actually do. It’s just a talking point, given to shut down any criticism about the books or to make it seem like the fans don’t have as much power as they actually do.
Because, as I stated before, if they WERE planning to bring back the marriage, do you actually think Breevort would tell us? In addition, the “Close to Nil” as possible line seems like overkill. Like it’s overstating a position. Like it’s trying to obscure something.
Marvel doesn’t know what to do with MJ as a character, long-term.
They don’t want to kill her off, in the future. They don’t want her to become divorced, in the future. Those were the two options before, and they rejected both of them, so we got OMD.
But Marvel also doesn’t want Peter to eve rhave a serious, committed relationship with her, because that’s “boring”, or it “limits creative options”. That’s code language for how writer-vanity wants to create the next Gwen or MJ. That was what Carlie Cooper was meant to be — the “new” Gwen or MJ. And why Slott bitterly complains about ignorant fan prejudice against any new love-interests for Peter.
Here’s to hoping he’s wrong! 🙂
@8 Why is “I’m not keen this direction and want to try some thing new” not a legitimate desire to try something new? That’s how a lot of changes to new directions come about, the belief that something else would be better. Re-casting it as laziness seems needless.
@6- Which would be reasonable, if this had anything to do with legitimately trying something new. This was, in my opinion, largely just about a small section of creators not liking it, and wanting to do away with it because they thought it would be easier to write a single Spidey. It wasn’t.
The Nightcrawler example was to show that Breevort isn’t all knowing, nor is his word complete and final. And even if they did have plans to undo OMD and bring back the marriage, he certainly wouldn’t come out and tell us.
But it is not new. It is old and stale.
@4 – In fairness, Brevoort didn’t say meta-jokes about comic death would never happen, he just said he doesn’t like them. And I don’t think he edited the Nightcrawler issue where it happened.
And although I think the Peter/MJ relationship will inevitably come round again, I can’t imagine it’ll translate into marriage any time soon. And as Brevoort says, they have already done that. And not just for one storyline, but for about 20 years. Hard to begrudge them trying something new.
Not surprised by this at all. Though I still think a new creative team that has more interest in the soap opera aspect of Spider-Man could bring the marriage back or at least give Peter a likeable, serious love interest. But I don’t see it happening under Slott.
Yeah. Keep in mind, Breevort also said this on his formspring account:
“some readers have read comics for long enough that they realize that most deaths get reversed at some point. And they’re cynical about it. (And often unhappy about the benching of a character that they liked.) And so they like it when the characters are equally cynical—if nothing else, it poisons the whole story, and in so doing maybe makes it more likely that the character in question will be brought back more quickly.
But it’s junk writing. And it’s aimed at the smallest part of the audience, at the expense of the largest.”
And then this happened.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/14/nightcrawler-and-death/
So, Breevort says this thing is never going to happen- and then it happens.
And let’s face it- if they did have plans on bringing the marriage back, do you think Breevort would tell us? Plus, his statement that it’s “Close to nil as possible” sounds VERY generous. I doubt that EVERY person at Marvel is happy with what happened with OMD. And if you look at what happened with the Clone Saga, Breevort got overruled repeatedly about what he did and did not want to do.
So, yeah, this could be Breevort legitimately telling the reader that they don’t plan on changing things or bringing the marriage back. Or it could just be him repeating a company line, which could change at any moment. It could have been him repeating information that Axel Alonso told him after he was asked that question. Or it could be him just saying something on his own, which would prompt a call from the Spider-Man offices that would be along the lines of “Hey, uh, Tom. We’re actually hearing pitches on that and we’re seriously looking at bringing it back. Don’t you remember the last meeting?”
Well, as long as Peter and Mary Jane aren’t married,
I do save money by not wasting it on marvel.
I was the one who posted that by the way, thanks Brad for putting it on the crawlspace. I hope the spider-marriage returns soon Peter Parker’s dating life is getting so boring and repetitive now.
I wouldn’t be disheartened. The same company said the regular and ultimate universe would never cross over. Now it’s an annual event. If there’s a sales bump in it, it will happen. It may get undone a year later though 🙂