Forbes on ASM2 Profits

23 Comments

1. @George. Based upon some of the estimates, ASM2 should reach over $700 mil worldwide since it has only been in the states 2 weeks and just opened in China with much higher than expected numbers. I think the real problem was Sony was banking on over $900 mil…which was not going to happen.

   As for rebooting the series, I can see what they were thinking, worked for Batman. This of course was flawed reasoning.
   1) It was 8 years between the reboots for Batman, this was only 5 years.
   2) Batman and Robin was dismal at the box office. Say what you want about Spider-Man 3, but it was number 1 for 2007 with a pretty crowded field like the first Transformers and sequels from Shrek, Pirates of the Caribbean, National Treasure and Harry Potter. $336 domestic and $554 worldwide for a haul of $890 million.

   As a fan, I would vote for 1 more Sony version…sell it off to Marvel, then wait 10 years to start over and do it right. How do they do it right? Hire the Crawlspace panel of JR, George, Kevin and BD to evaluate the screenplay. That would eliminate the stoopid errors they have done to all 5 movies…

2. @20 – Whose to say that the comics have suffered? 2013 sales for Superior Spider-Man have sold almost as much units (2.75+ million books) as in 2008 (2.84+ million books), which was the beginning of the BND era. The best amount during the JMS era was in 2004 (2.38+ million books)… Individual JMS comics sold much better, but they were often delayed, and when paired up with sister books (FNSM/SensSM & SpecSM), those books sold poorly. Putting out ASM three times a month was a genius maneuver for Marvel. And the new ASM #1 has sold over 532 000 copies… You may not like post OMD Spider-Man, but the sales numbers would suggest otherwise. And let’s all keep in mind that comic book sales have been dropping every year for quite some time as the print industry falls into obscurity (booo!)

   As others have mentioned, if Sony made TASM a continuation of the Raimi movies with new actors, the numbers would be better (provided the scripts were of decent quality)

   Just my opinion.

3. @20 – “But I’m also of the mind of poster #16: the idea that a movie with a worldwide gross of over $700 million and counting is a failure is simply ludicrous.”

   ASM2 has thus far made about $148 million in the U.S. and a little over $400 million outside the U.S. It is still way, way shy of the $700 million mark, and two weeks into release it most likely won’t hit that. Remember, it’s been out overseas even longer – almost a month now. The first ASM movie made over $700 million, domestic (U.S.) & worldwide combined.

   They will now have to use the profits they have for ASM2 and use that for two films. It’s going to be very tight for them and they have to figure out a way to turn interest around. Otherwise will not be able to make a Spider-Man picture every year they way they’ve said they want to.

4. How much the disappointing box office all has to do with people’s attitudes toward Spider-man in general now, I can’t help but wonder. When the Raimi franchise was coming out, the comics were in better shape. Not only that, but the movies mostly resembled the landscape of the comics: Norman was alive, Peter was with Mary Jane. Then OMD happened, and I don’t think the character has ever really recovered.

   You now have this new franchise, which is a kind of sketchy mishmash of 616 / Ultimate worlds and stories, with other elements like the parents subplot tossed in. Norman’s dead already in this franchise, and the love interest is Gwen Stacy (a character that’s dead in both comic universes). It’s a bit messy and fans certainly pick up on that, but it seems casuals do too.

   But I’m also of the mind of poster #16: the idea that a movie with a worldwide gross of over $700 million and counting is a failure is simply ludicrous.

5. “What do you think about the possibility of Disney offering Sony a large chunk of cash for the Spidey rights back?”

   I would be willing to bet Disney has already made that offer.

   Sony’s Amy Pascal is on record saying they will never let Spider-Man go. They only have one other franchise right now and yeah as far as studios go Sony is in a very rough place.

6. George,

   What do you think about the possibility of Disney offering Sony a large chunk of cash for the Spidey rights back? I understand Sony has had significant losses this year (in the billion range… correct me if I’m wrong). With a disappointing revenue from ASM2 and the obvious millions they probably poured into advertising, would Sony bite? I mean, Marvel also has to consider the timing – they don’t want Sony or Fox over-saturating the market with superhero movies to wear out the potential for their future planned films – and with Sony hurting badly, Disney has the cash to make it worth their time. I understand losing a franchise will be tough, but I doubt a Sinister Six or Venom movie will now have the budgets to be a success, let alone how an ASM3 would shape up to be.

   (As a side note, if I were Sony and keeping the franchise, I’d cancel the S6 and Venom movies and do the S6 in ASM3 and Venom for ASM4 if possible. Or just end on ASM3 for a while to prevent brand fatigue.)

7. @16 – “However, the International Business Times is way off on re-invigorating the franchise by introducing Miles Morales as Spider-Man.”

   Agreed. I think a lot of the folks who enjoy Miles in the Ultimate Comic overestimate the demand for a switch.

   “Where Sony screwed up is rebooting the franchise.”

   Very much so. They could have switched actors and just kept moving forward.

8. I can see where the Forbes article is coming from, even though it was a bit repetitive in spots. However, the International Business Times is way off on re-invigorating the franchise by introducing Miles Morales as Spider-Man. Look, that is the only SM series I am currently following and I enjoy it quite a bit, but there is not any business or fan rationale for this type of move. 1) The Ultimate Spider-Man book with Miles has sold poorly. 2) No one outside of fanboys know who Miles Morales is, so it is safe to say the general public will outright reject this idea.

   Where Sony screwed up is rebooting the franchise. They should have picked up the series with new actors, and carried the story forward. It is the reboot that ticked off a lot of fans (casual or hard core) and these new movies have not been good enough to win them back.

   The amazing thing is, a movie that will make almost $750 million worldwide is considered a disappointment? Incredible…

9. I think they should have done with this movie what they should have done with SM3 – introduce the civilian identity of one of the other villains (Eddie Brock in SM3, Harry in ASM2) and build up their descent into villainy in the movie as Spidey fights the other villain. End the movie with them becoming super-powered (Venom, Goblin). That’s your ending/cliff-hanger, and have them be the main villain in the next movie.

   When Spidey beat Electro I thought “Oh, it’s over” and then Harry flies in and my first instinct was “oh great, another villain to fight”.

10. Just saw the movie and I was unimpressed. Too many things pulling my attention in every damn direction.

    Damn, now I’m depressed at how much better the movie could have been. If anything it should have been about Peter’s relationships with both Gwen (a new, growing love) and Harry (an old friendship turning bitter) and having them both lead up to a certain night on a certain bridge.

    I’m now worried on how ASM 3, Sinister Six, and Venom will be handled. If they ever happen.

    ~Lament~

11. Well if anything hopefully this will put an end to a potential sinister six movie. Huge disappointment that its not as successful but lets face it these films are kind of reboots, ASM origin story thats been told and with the trailers you see green goblin which has been done in previous films. Maybe the audience feels like they have already seen it, when I left the film on Sunday heard some viewers complaining that it had same issue as Spider-Man 3 too many villains. Biggest kicker though was when we stopped by my wife’s parent her dad was watching the original Spider-Man on Netflix, give me that power ranger green goblin any day of the week.

12. @10 – Do you mean that when you post a comment on the website pages (not the message board) and click Submit Comment the page will reload but without adding your comment? I haven’t had that happen for awhile (knock on wood) but for awhile that was happening to me A LOT. My comment didn’t contain any objectionable words so there was no reason it should not have been accepted. And if I clicked the Back button and tried to resubmit the comment I would get the “This comment has already been submitted” page.

    I would change some words (to make the comment different) and sometimes that would work. Other times I would break the comment down into smaller comments (i.e. if it was 2 paragraphs I’d try to post just the first paragraph and then post the second one, seeing which one was causing the problem).

    Eventually I tried this – add a space between every letter and it accepted it and posted it. For example, if my comment was “Spider-Man is the best ever.” I would resubmit it as “S p i d e r – M a n i s t h e b e s t e v e r .” I have no idea why, but this has worked for me that last 3-4 times I’ve had this problem, maybe try that (and when it displayed it didn’t include the extra spaces).

    Of course, if you’re talking about a completely different problem, then just ignore everything I’ve said.

13. @9 – The tomatometer is not 100% accurate, but I’ve found it to be a pretty reliable measure of what most critics and most people are saying about a film. Sometimes my own tastes will disagree with it, but that’s rare.

14. Does anyone know why it’s been difficult to post comments on the Crawl Space recently? I’ve been encountering the problem a lot lately.

15. @8 – I just got dragged to see it on a date and hated it, it’s just one of those formulaic teen sex comedies. Same jokes you’ve seen 100 times before. Obviously just my opinion.
    My words may have been a bit strong, I was seething from an overall bad cinema experience (talking kids and a terrible movie). Still wouldn’t recommend it.

    I never trust the tomatometer. ASM2 is quite a good example of why I don’t, it’s rating is extremely low.

16. @3 – At first when I read your comment I thought you meant that ASM2 had been beaten at the box office by The Simpsons episode “Two Bad Neighbors”. It was beaten by “Neighbors”, which I haven’t seen, and may very well be trash, but repugnant? It’s 74% at RottenTomatoes.

17. About the “lower budget” thing in my earlier comment. This isn’t necessarily bad. Captain America: Winter Solider was made for $170 million. It made almost $700 million.

    The difference between Captain America: The Winter Solider and ASM2? Strength of writing. Smarter writing.

    There is a world of difference when word of mouth is “Did you see it? Loved it! So well done!” and when word of mouth is “Saw it. It was alright. Liked some parts.” Do I expect Sony to learn that? No. I think Sony will look at how they marketed ASM2 and try to figure out what they did wrong instead of looking at the quality of the film they made. Hopefully I am wrong and they learn some lessons with this.

18. “Confirmed” doesn’t mean anything until it actually goes into production. They can confirm until the cows come home but if the cash to make it’s not there…

    They were likely hoping to make enough back from this to finance both ASM3 and Venom/Sinister Six, whichever was next. ASM2 cost somewhere between $200-$250 million to make. At $500 million back there’s little profit there after budget costs to make two new movies. Yet they’re backed into a corner.

    But – they *have* to make new Spider-movies. They can’t afford not to at this point. Ultimately what it’ll mean for the Spider-franchise is lower budgets for whatever the next two movies are.

19. I think this is truly leading to Sony selling back the rights to Marvel. You can see the writing on the wall in terms of depreciation. I think we’re just Spidey-ed out at this point and these sequels aren’t offering something different enough to reel people in. With the X-Men franchise, they went in a completely different direction following Last Stand and it paid off for them. Marvel Studios is continuing to kick butt, not only with their Avengers franchise proper, but it taking the opportunity to delve into territory we would NEVER have thought possible (Rocket Raccoon and Ant Man on screen, who woulda thunk?)

    Granted Sony won’t throw in the towel any time soon (Spidey 4 is already confirmed), but I think we’re starting to see the wall start to crumble.

20. As someone who actually loved the movie because I felt they finally got the friendly, neighborhood aspect of Spidey right, it’s disheartening to hear that the movie is being viewed as a failure as this means they may get certain aspects of what worked this time wrong next time. Outside of two trailers, I stayed away from all the promos and clips as I didn’t want the movie spoiled. I still think they can pull out something great, but they need to keep the focus on Spidey and being an everyman, not the villains. Have Spidey bring back the fun of superheroes, without the Schumaker campiness.

21. This Sony is why you don’t show near 50 minutes of the film in trailers and youtube featurettes, because the promotional campaign for this movie sucked and that’s part of why this has happened.
    Personally I’m more disappointed that this is being beat at at the box office by repugnant trash like ‘Bad Neighbours’.

22. Certainly Sony wanted – very badly – for this to be doing better. I can easily believe they look at $500+ million as a disappointment. They were surely hoping for growth and an increase from ASM’s $700+ million draw.

    International Business Times has a similar article today noting that while Sony is pushing the franchise hard (because they desperately need to) audiences seem to be suffering Spider-fatigue. ASM2 is currently on pace to turn in the lowest box office performance of any Spider-film.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/ignoring-amazing-spider-man-fatigue-sony-stubbornly-forges-ahead-1583121

23. This article makes some good points. Then it says this: “the villains were no one’s favorite part of the Raimi films”. Yeah, because no one like Willem Dafoe (out of the Goblin costume) and everyone hated Alfred Molina as Doc Ock.