Marvel just sent me this press release saying that “One Moment in Time” changes everything. What do you all think of the image? What are those Dr. Strange looking lights in the top of the picture? HMMMM, could the deal with the devil be done? Comment below or discuss it on this message board thread.
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 (JUN100542)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 QUESADA VARIANT (JUN100543)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 QUESADA SKETCH VARIANT (JUN100544)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 WOMEN OF MARVEL VARIANT (JUN100545)
Written by JOE QUESADA
Penciled by PAOLO MANUEL RIVERA & JOE QUESADA
Cover by PAOLO MANUEL RIVERA
Spidey Sunday Feature by STAN LEE & MARCOS MARTIN
Variant Cover by JOE QUESADA
Sketch Variant by JOE QUESADA
Women of Marvel Frame Variant by JOHN TYLER CHRISTOPHER
Rated A …$3.99
FOC—8/12/10, On-Sale—9/1/10
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Damn. What the hell did I miss when I was playing Halo Reach beta? You know what, the Spider-man fan base Civil War is way more intense than that Superhero Registration fan base one a while back.
With the movies and such, I have no doubt that at some point down the road, Peter & MJ might become a couple again… just not a married one.
So I’ll enjoy the ride between now and then…
Dang, I didn’t even remember what the topic was about. Here I thought I have posed an interesting notion and Fred spat all over it, but whatever.
@Themanofbat – Believe it or not, there are kids out there that want a single Spider-man. I don’t know if they’ll be raving mad when it does inevitable happen that Peter and MJ go back to being married, though. I guess you just can’t please everybody.
So…does O.M.I.T. stand for “Oh, Man, It’s Terrible!”? Or “Oy, Marvel’s In Trouble”?
(Just trying to lighten the mood around here!)
wow.
Just, wow.
To the guy that stated above that the removal of the Spider-Marriage (I think it was Stuart Green) “split” the fan-base in half and they should bring it back.
How will this reunite the fan base?
I’ve been reading Spidey faithfully since 1975, and yes, there have been ups & downs, and while OMD stunk, I’m really enjoying the BND stories (for the most part), and I like the idea of Peter being single… even throughout the marriage years…
So is bringing it back really going to reunite Spider-Fans?
Or just appease some of the pissed off ones?
Ok Two Bit and Fred break it up now. Or warnings will go out. Get back on topic and not make multiple posts about hurt feelings.
You keep calling me a child and a liar rather than to be civil.”
Did not call you a child, i told you to grow up and stop acting like a victim, big difference. And i called you a liar and backed it up.
“So of course I feel a little victimized.”
If you feel victimized, you need to get out more.
“But you know what? I’m going to start using your tactics and take statements out of context too:”
Actually, lying and making stuff up is what you been doing.
Once again, you should grow up.
“You keep calling me a child and a liar rather than to be civil.”
Did not all you are child, i told you to grow up and stop acting like a victim, big difference. And i called you a liar and backed it up.
“So of course I feel a little victimized.”
If you feel victimized, you need to get out more.
“But you know what? I’m going to start using your tactics and take statements out of context too:”
Actually, lying and making stuff up is what you been doing.
Once again, you should grow up.
I love the smell of carnage in the afternoon.
@Fred – Grow up? Please. You sound like the typical 13-year-old who just discovered the Internet, by trying to sound smarter than he is. What points exactly do you want me to address? I don’t know how else to tell you that we are on the same side. If this was in person, I’d be yelling at you for being a stubborn punk. Hence the all caps.
You keep calling me a child and a liar rather than to be civil. So of course I feel a little victimized. You’d feel the same way if I started to call you names too, except I haven’t.
But you know what? I’m going to start using your tactics and take statements out of context too:
“i called you an idiot”
Your words, not mine.
Wow, talk about multiple personalities Drill Claw and Alternaverse Spider-Fan are the same person. They have the same IP and both have now been banned. What a jerk.
I hate playing moderator so grow up you guys! If you’re so willing to tear into each other for some statements that to me have been taking out of context then go ahead and tear into each other. I’ll just stand on the side lines and enjoy the carnage.
“You mean the points that we both already agree on?”
You never addressed my point other than act like a five year old by writing in caps and avoiding what i told you. Again, another lie.
“I’m not the liar here”
You are the liar here, especially when you try to say that i called you an idiot.: Again you’re own words, not you trying to lie by saying that i’m putting words in your mouth.
““My whole attitude of “Hey, guys. Look what I just discovered!” was met with a resounding “You’re an idiot.” Especially by Fred.”
Again think very hard before you start lying through your teeth. Stop paying victim and grow up.
@Fred – You mean the points that we both already agree on? I’m not the liar here. You keep saying I’m trying to do something when I’m not.
“I’m sorry, Fred, but when you started attacking me instead of trying to carry a conversation, I lost interest. With me constantly talking about the Internet, I forgot that it’s also full of people who like to fight with everyone, even when they are on the exactly same side. How sad.”
I think what is sad is the fact that you would resort to lying and playing victim because you defend your points.
@AmFan15 I think we can all agree that the quality of both storylines is the dividing factor here. Thank you for participating in a civil manner.
I’m sorry, Fred, but when you started attacking me instead of trying to carry a conversation, I lost interest. With me constantly talking about the Internet, I forgot that it’s also full of people who like to fight with everyone, even when they are on the exactly same side. How sad.
“My whole attitude of “Hey, guys. Look what I just discovered!” was met with a resounding “You’re an idiot.” Especially by Fred.”
One, i never called you an idiot or insulted you once, so if you are going to lie to make yourself look like a victim, try to do a better job of it.
Second, i gave you points on my argument and you refused to answer them and in turn you acted up by throwing a fit and writing in caps.
Third, i put up your own quotes to answer you, so where am i putting words in your mouth when those quotes are coming from you?
Spare me the victim act and don’t lie.
@Two-Bit Specialist: “Let’s pretend now that if a story (let’s NOT call it OMD for sake of making a point) had been written in which Peter and MJ were separated, but the story respected all the characterization of the last 30 years, allowed the characters to grow, and, in fact, was written by none other than Stan Lee. The year is 2007. What do you think the reaction would be?
a) “Man, that was a great story. Good thing Stan got rid of that marriage.”
b) “I want the marriage still, but Stan knows what he’s doing. This was pretty well-written.”
c) “Who does Stan Lee think he is? Why did he split Peter and MJ? This is the worst story ever.”
Personally, I would find myself on the “B”-list. I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, my problem with the entire OMD/BND/OMIT disaster is NOT that Peter and MJ are no longer married (Yes, they are). If they were divorced, separated, or split for some other PLAUSIBLE reason, then I would have no problem with it. These are facts of life, and are everyday occurrences throughout the world. Although I loved the marriage, and I would’ve been upset, I could have dealt with it, as long as it stayed true to the characters, and their emotions.
What I CAN NOT tolerate is a childish INSISTENCE that Spider-Man be single again, to the point that over 20 years of continuity, and great stories are flushed down the toilet through such an asinine reason as a deal with the devil! That is not just bad storytelling, it’s a middle-finger to Spider-Man fans everywhere, whether they were fans of the marriage or not. Dead characters are inexplicably brought back to life, the entire world (Including Venom, Norman, and several other people who really SHOULD know who he is!) simply “forgets” that Peter Parker is Spider-Man…who by the way, has decided that the best way to honor his Uncle’s memory is to SLEEP WITH EVERY WOMAN HE MEETS.
Long story short, Gwen’s death was tragic, and probably angered SOME people, who may or may not have stopped buying the comics.
OMD & OMIT have angered OVER HALF of the readers, many who have gone so far as swearing off the comics. Let me repeat…not just “stopped buying”, but SWEARING OFF the comics!
So, yes, there is a difference. And the difference is the quality of the writing, and the effects on Spider-Man as a character.
@The Dark Spider – Actually, I agree with you. Fred and I are on the same side, so it strikes me as silly that he’ll constantly berate me for asking a question. We both think The Death of Gwen Stacy was a defining moment in Spidey’s history. We both think that it was done for the best of the character. We both think OMD sucks. We both think it was a poorly done story. We both think it has contributed nothing to the Spider-man mythos. So I don’t know what his problem is.
The circumstances were a whole lot alike. But Fred is right: Gwen Stacy’s death wasn’t done as a reboot of the franchise or because Stan Lee or Jerry Conway had run out of ideas. It ultimately added depth to Peter Parker’s character. It was a vastly superior story to OMD. I accept that Spider-man would lose the love of his life as a direct result of battling his greatest foe, and having said foe meet his end as comeuppance. I can’t accept that Spider-man would willingly make a deal with the devil and give up the love of his life, even if it was to save his aunt.
But that’s just me. Fans are notorious for what they will or won’t accept, and the Internet makes it easy for them to be very vocal about it. I wasn’t around in 1973. I don’t know how fan outcries were carried out. I suppose Marvel may have gotten some angry letters from readers at the time. I don’t know. And without a Newsrama, Comic Book Resources, Ain’t it Cool News, or even Spider-man Crawlspace, how would fans know the reasoning behind ASM #112? The behind the scenes story was revealed through Comic Buyer’s Guide and The 100 Greatest Marvels of All Time, much later in time.
But in time, it became evident that Stan Lee, Jerry Conway, John Romita, or Roy Thomas weren’t trying to be jerks with the fanbase. I will say also that I don’t think time will ever be kind to Joe Quesada.
My whole attitude of “Hey, guys. Look what I just discovered!” was met with a resounding “You’re an idiot.” Especially by Fred. I mean, when you are right, you are right. I just don’t appreciate it when people put words in my mouth, telling me what I’m trying to say like I don’t know it myself, making themselves sound smarter when really they are foolishly fighting people who are on your same side. And really, the way I deal with people like that is by yelling at them.
I fully expect him to reply and say how I am inferior in debate. I won’t deny that I was never allowed on the debate team in high school. And really, all I wanted to do was “Hey, guys. Look what I found!” But don’t go around telling me what I’m doing like I don’t know myself.
No prob, Drill Claw.
Okay, let’s put this to bed.
1. When someone starts a comment off with, essentially, “no offence but you’re all IDIOTS!!”…then frankly, I won’t respect anything you say beyond that.
2. When an apology consists of, essentially, “I already apologized for calling people idiots, but it’s true”…then why bother with an apology?
Those are why I said “Your opinion matters. As much as your apologies do.”
IF (and I mean “if”) I misinterpreted what had been said, then I will sincerely apologize to Alternaverse Spider-Fan.
Absolutely everything that I have said has been solely in defence of this site and it’s members and fans.
If I recall correctly Gwen Stacy was killed off mainly to reenforce the fact Spider-man is a tragic character. Look back and you’ll see it’s true. Now to the people that keep arguing between each other, I have to ask. Are you on the same side? Answer me that. You are comparing the controversial yet classic The Night Gwen Stacy Died to the still controversial/dreaded One More Day/Brand New Day era. Let’s compare and contrast. Yes both are controversial right from the start. But The Night Gwen Stacy Died is considered a massive turning point in comic history. It was in fact a indicator that the Silver Age had ended, replaced by the darker, grittier Bronze Age. The story was that ground breaking because it was well written. OMD/BND… well how should I put it… sucks hard? One man’s belief that a single Peter/Spider-man was better completely uprooted a well established and popular marriage. The fact the marriage was “erased” was enough to piss me off, the way it was “erased” made it so much worse. There was a reason JMS wanted his name no where near OMD when it was printed. He didn’t want to do with it at all. It was Joe’s idea and his idea alone. BND was suppose to heal the wounds but all we got was salt. The Peter Parker we now was replaced by…well you guys know, I just want to say it. It was argued that he’s just like the unmarried Spider-man of the Silver Age. It’s a lie. Read the classics. They’re nothing alike. I have to get back to my girlfriend. Tear into me and not my beliefs if you like. It’ll only prove I’m a better man.
@Spider-Pumbler
Sorry about that frome earlier. there was a typo in my comment from hours ago.
It was supposed to be written as *You should have stopped BEFORE you made the statement “your opinions matter just as much as your apologies do”
“I’m not making any excuses for OMD. I noticed one day Conway’s statements and immediately thought on Quesada’s argument.”
No, you’re trying to compare the fan outrage of what was done with “what OMD is going thought today and trying to say that if there was an Internet back then the fan outrage would be just as apparent as the outrage of what Quessada has done and i’m saying that its not and can’t be compared. Your quote:
“If the Internet had been around in the ’70s, the Death of Gwen Stacy would’ve been subject to the same harsh criticism as OMD, because the reason Stan Lee killed her off was because he thought Spider-man was too young to marry.”
And i told you several times the big differences between “The Death of Gwen Stacy and OMD is storytelling and respect for the characters. You’re the one running around in circles with the straw man argument and its not working. Especially when you have not addressed what i have said. You throwing a fit is not a counter argument, just someone who can’t defend their position.
“Dude, calm down. You are preaching to the choir. How can I make it clearer to you?”
Dude, I’m very calm and able to defend my position. You’re the one writing in caps and throwing fits because you can’t defend yours. And whose choir I’m preaching to?
“I AM POINTING OUT THE SIMILARITIES IN BOTH SITUATIONS.”
And i’m pointing out the differences. i said it several times and in detail, something again you do not want to address other than throw a temper tantrum because its apparent that you can’t counter it. Writing in caps does not help your position on anything, it only shows that you’re incapable to address my counter argument.
“Ugh.”
I’m not the one who can’t hold an argument. Especially when you have not addressed a thing i have said in respect of countering your argument, which means you know you don’t have one.
Are you going to addressed what i told you or are you keep running around in circles to keep up the straw man argument because you can’t counter what i have said to you?
The person who has a problem here is you.
@Fred – “blah blah blah The Death of Gwen Stacy and OMD are the same thing blah blah blah”
I’m not making any excuses for OMD. I noticed one day Conway’s statements and immediately thought on Quesada’s argument.
All I was asking was for you to think. THINK. I’m not out to prove anything. You think I am, but you are wrong.
“But yet you keep trying to make comparisons to The Death of Gwen Stacy in order to make excuses on why the fans are reacting to OMD while in fact you can’t compare them at all. You keep running around in circles with a half baked argument that the fan reaction would be the same while in reality, you keep avoiding why the fans are angry in the first place, which is how badly the story of OMD/BND/OMIT were written and how disrespectful they are to the history of the character. I have told you several times that despite some angry fan reactions, “The Death of Gwen Stacy would still be considered a respectful and coherent story that respected the characters and its fans if it was written today. OMD and BND are not considered that at all and that’s why you hear the constant uproar because of it.”
Dude, calm down. You are preaching to the choir. How can I make it clearer to you?
I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING.
I AM POINTING OUT THE SIMILARITIES IN BOTH SITUATIONS.
ULTIMATELY, GWEN’S DEATH IS A CLASSIC.
OMD IS NOT!
Ugh.
@ BD
Clearly you did not read Alternaverse Spider-Fans paragraph as he has stated that he apologized for the manner in which he wrote his outburst targeted at a particular group of fans based on how they address their preference for those who complain about what they willingly purchase knowing the outcome ahead of time.
As for what you claim to be him calling everyone on the website “idiots”, you are taking his words out of context and using it to speak for everyones individual opinion on what his website. Alternaverse has even claimed not have insulted every memeber of this website. In my opinion i do not believe you were not reading his sentences clearly and only found favor in addressing his words that you believe make you a target.
IMO, its basically what you want to believe VS what is established in the comments on this board.
He even claimed that he shouldnt have called those people idiots, he COULD HAVE and SHOULD HAVE have addressed his comments in a more mature and respectable context.
The only people who deserve a warning are those who continue to pursue a non-progressive arguement. I am just tossing in my two cents here seeing as how these comments are taking up space more than any other on this post Its long enough to draw attention other than the initial people involved.
Not that i want to write more but i have an occasion to get to Good Bye!
@ Spider-Plug
I read the last sentence of your recent comment, and it DOES sound rude. At one point you were making a constuctive defense for the groups of fans on this website, however where you should have stopped and where i have lost respect for you is right at “Your opinion matters just as much as your apologies do”.
If Alternaverse Spider-Fan was willing to clarify statements you spoke out against, and admit that he himself may have been going out of line, then all you needed to do was accept the apology and end the matter. Maybe even have the comments you consider abusive, (if they are considered 100% to so) deleted.
“Can you please stop arguing for one second and just think things through a little bit? ”
I have thought about it, that’s why i say it holds no water.
“Let’s pretend now that if a story (let’s NOT call it OMD for sake of making a point) had been written in which Peter and MJ were separated, but the story respected all the characterization of the last 30 years, allowed the characters to grow, and, in fact, was written by none other than Stan Lee. The year is 2007. What do you think the reaction would be?”
You know what, the reaction would not be as bad as it is now, not even half. You know why? Stan Lee knows how to write a story and would not resort to badly put together explanations that not only insults the reader but the characters as well.
“Honestly, I don’t know. It might have the same reaction?
Nope, it would not you know why? Stan would no have ruined the integrity of the characters, especially with the whole Devil thing which goes against everything Spider man stood for. Joe Quesada not only made Peter and MJ look like idiots but made a mockery of 20 years worth of stories and character development because of his ego, not because of the integrity of theses characters.
“What if OMD had been written in 1973? ”
If it was as badly written and badly mishandled like he is now, i doubt the character would have been around today. Not in that current shape.
“AGAIN, I’m not saying that The Death of Gwen Stacy sucks, or that OMD is the greatest thing ever.”
But yet you keep trying to make comparisons to The Death of Gwen Stacy in order to make excuses on why the fans are reacting to OMD while in fact you can’t compare them at all. You keep running around in circles with a half baked argument that the fan reaction would be the same while in reality, you keep avoiding why the fans are angry in the first place, which is how badly the story of OMD/BND/OMIT were written and how disrespectful they are to the history of the character. I have told you several times that despite some angry fan reactions, “The Death of Gwen Stacy would still be considered a respectful and coherent story that respected the characters and its fans if it was written today. OMD and BND are not considered that at all and that’s why you hear the constant uproar because of it.
@Fred – Can you please stop arguing for one second and just think things through a little bit? You think all I’m saying is “blah blah blah Death of Gwen Stacy sucks blah blah blah.”
Let’s pretend now that if a story (let’s NOT call it OMD for sake of making a point) had been written in which Peter and MJ were separated, but the story respected all the characterization of the last 30 years, allowed the characters to grow, and, in fact, was written by none other than Stan Lee. The year is 2007. What do you think the reaction would be?
a) “Man, that was a great story. Good thing Stan got rid of that marriage.”
b) “I want the marriage still, but Stan knows what he’s doing. This was pretty well-written.”
c) “Who does Stan Lee think he is? Why did he split Peter and MJ? This is the worst story ever.”
Honestly, I don’t know. It might have the same reaction, even with all the stipulations I outlined above, as OMD is having today. What if OMD had been written in 1973? This is all just food for thought. AGAIN, I’m not saying that The Death of Gwen Stacy sucks, or that OMD is the greatest thing ever.
“I’m simply pointing out the fact that both had editorial decisions behind the scenes, both involved a tragedy in Peter’s life, and both had as their catalyst “Peter’s too young to marry.”
Here is the big difference, one respected the history of the character and told a compelling story and the other was so badly written that it not only disrespected the characterization, it insulted the fans who followed the book.
“It can be very difficult to gauge the immediate fan reaction to a story published 30 years. We’ve had the benefit of seeing Peter’s growth in the years that came later.”
Again, one was writing with respect to the fans and the characters, the other was written to please Joe Quesada’s ego.
“Let’s pretend this is a “What if…” issue: “What if The Death of Gwen Stacy had been published in 2007?” That’s my thought process here.”
If this was written as well as ASM #112 was, it would not received even half of the backlash OMD/BND has gotten.
“It’s like how everyone is nowadays saying that Sins Past was pretty well-written, even though it was a terrible idea.”
You know why right? Compared to the crappy storytelling of OMD, BND and OMIT, Sins Past is a masterpiece in literary writing.
@Fred – Dude, I never said ASM #112 was a bad-written story, not that OMD was a well-written one. I’m simply pointing out the fact that both had editorial decisions behind the scenes, both involved a tragedy in Peter’s life, and both had as their catalyst “Peter’s too young to marry.”
It can be very difficult to gauge the immediate fan reaction to a story published 30 years. We’ve had the benefit of seeing Peter’s growth in the years that came later.
Let’s pretend this is a “What if…” issue: “What if The Death of Gwen Stacy had been published in 2007?” That’s my thought process here.
It’s like how everyone is nowadays saying that Sins Past was pretty well-written, even though it was a terrible idea.
I’ll give you one, though. MJ’s death after the reboot was probably an instance of trying to copy the impact of The Death of Gwen Stacy that grossly backfired. You think Marvel would’ve learned from that.
‘The move to kill Gwen Stacy was met with howls of rage rather than praise for a well written classic.”
And yet it did not drive away half of the audience like OMD/BND did and it didn’t insult the readership with bad characterization like OMD/BND did.
“Who knows how BND/OMD will be seen in twenty or thirty years?”
Considering the fact that its been three years and people are still calling OMD one of the worst stories ever written for the book, i think we get a good indication on how the story will be perceived down the line.
“Unless you think you can ‘explain magic’, neither do you!”
Even the people who love BND thought OMD was horrible, i don’t need magic to figure out that the story was terrible.
“Also, many fans now accept and like the fact that Norman was resurrected at the end of the Clone Saga!”
The reason being is the fact that Norman’s resurrection was not only a away to salvage what was of left of the clone saga but it was the only good thing to come out of that story line. It was a way to explain the bad writing and the huge plot holes that the clone saga had.
“but the book continued to lose readers!”
Bad writing and editorial decisions does that, you can look at BND and the current Spider-Man books to see that. They are approaching the record lows that the mackie/Byrne renumbering/relaunch! was getting.
“I can’t understand why the readers continued to stay away considering they destroyed the righteous symmetry of Amazing #122 to undo an infamously divisive storyline!”
Its called staying away from bad writing and horrible editorial decisions that made no sense. Just like OMD/BND.
“I guess it serves anyone right who dares to have a sacred cow in comics!”
There is a huge difference between a sacred cow and a lame duck. Trying to compare Amazing #122 to OMD/BND is a lame duck argument that does not hold water. Amazing #122 was a well written story that respected the characters and pushed them forward, despite the fact that it upset some people. OMD/BND does nothing in those terms and regresses the characters backwards.
On a final note, there was nothing “smartass” about my comments or responses. I was very simply and concisely defending this site, it’s creators, and it’s members from an obvious verbal assault.
That is something I won’t apologize for, however…BD – I’m sorry if I dragged SMCS.com into the dirt a bit.
And 1 warning goes out to Alternaverse Spider-Fan for calling spider-plumber a “douchebag.”
A second warning goes to Alternaverse Spider-Fan for calling everyone on this website “idiots.”
And the line “Personally i dont care if this is anyones website, i already aplogized for being rude enough to call people idiots but its true. ” Should get you banned from ever posting on the front page. But it was a dick thing to say to me, but I’ll take a lump. You have one more warning before you’re banned from posting here.
Please review these rules before posting again on the front page or the message board.
http://spidermancrawlspace.com/wwwboard/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=904