What did Mary Jane do? We get her side of what happened with the whole six month mystery. Where did the kids come from? How long has she been gone? Did Paul make it to second base? Will you like the story? Maybe. Maybe not. Join me and let’s see if anything surprises us.
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Whatever Happened to Mary Jane
Writer: Zeb Wells
Pencils: Kaare Andrews and John Romita, Jr
Inker: Kaare Andrews and Scott Hanna
Colorist: Marco Menyz
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artists: John Romita, Jr, Scott Hanna, and Marco Menyz
Asst. Editor: Kaeden McGahey
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: 10 May 2023
Remedial ASM 101
Peter and MJ were sucked into a weird version of New York only to be attacked by a Mayan god named Wayeb. There, they met a man named Paul and in a fight with the god, MJ took a device that Peter built to get her home and used it to send Peter home so that he could bring back help. When he finally arrived, MJ has two kids.
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
We pick up when MJ sticks the device onto Peter, which kills the god by cutting it in half, sending one half through the portal that Peter went through. Paul, acting quickly, shoves the other half out. MJ is determined to wait for Peter and Paul reluctantly agrees, but eventually they are chased out by Rabin. In their struggles, they find two children who were, for reasons unknown, abandoned. After years of being together, things start to settle down until Rabin comes again for MJ. Peter arrives and he and Paul save the day, but the bond between MJ and Peter has suffered. Peter, distressed about this, is not overly kind to the FF when they confront him about his theft. Captain America smooths things over for now and Peter is left alone.
What Passed and Failed
PASSED – Mary Jane clocking Paul – It really emphasizes the stress MJ and Peter are under. Both are desperate not to lose what they just got back.
PASSED – This interaction with the FF – Peter has just been told by MJ it is over despite the fact he did all he could to save the day. The FF feel a bit betrayed by his theft. I feel that Reed and Sue are a bit more willing to hear Peter out, but Peter’s respponse sets off Torch (who takes this betrayal closer to heart), that sets off the Thing, and then matters get out of hand until Sue steps as a cooler head, as usual in these matters.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), ZWIP gets a solid 9. Why so high? Well, it’s clever. The sound works for what an inter-dimensional portal closing could possibly sound like and since it was made from a spider-hero wrist device, it sounds like our iconic thwip. Got to love that!
Analysis
What went wrong -or- Your hate has made you powerful – There are many Spider-Man fans out there who were going to hate this before it was ever published. I’m not faulting them. The arc was not awful. This issue was well done. The pacing and presentation, not so much. I do believe it is legitimate to base an opinion of this arc on the way it was presented to us. The problem comes from not understanding your fan base. Using MJ and Peter’s break up to grab attention? Perfectly acceptable. In fact, it has been done several times already to varying degrees of success. But to taunt the fans and then tell a story without the context needed to appreciate the story, well, not a smart move. I think this story would have been much better received (while still not being liked) if told it in chronological order. The shock of the kids would have still been there. Or, if Wells really wanted to drag out the “What the?” factor, we should have been given more clues along the way to keep us interested in the events. Whatever he chose, a whole year should not have gone by before we get an answer to that question. The reveal cannot live up to that kind of hype. That said, while I am not enjoying the direction of the story, I do respect many aspects of it. Which brings us to the actual content of this issue:
Peter and the FF/Captain America – One argument I have been hearing is that Peter would not have reacted like that to his friends. To that I say you have the right to be wrong. Peter is a hot head. He hasn’t been written that way often lately, but all through the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s, Peter is more likely to lead with his fists. He has a close relationship with the Torch. Fine. I can tell you that if my wife’s safety was time sensitive and a friend was impeding me, I’m not taking more time to try and explain myself. My wife comes first. Peter resepects Captian America, but Cap made it clear that Peter was not going anywhere for any reason until they cleared up this explosion he was a part of. I completely see him reacting by shoving Cap’s shield right into his face. Cap can take it. Now, could it have been handled differently? Sure. But it wasn’t. Peter is tired, over stressed, and freaking out. His behavior is still in character.
MJ and Paul – We can see off the bat that Mary Jane is fiercely loyal to Peter. She doesn’t understand the time differential, but refuses to leave that area. We get some great scenes like this:
You know at some point, she would start to feel abandoned by Peter. However, once you throw the kids into the mix, things change. MJ becomes invested in the kids. This is important. We know after reading Spider-Girl that MJ makes a great mother. These kids get that motherly bond from her (yeah, of course it is pretty crappy that we weren’t able to get that with a 616 May Day, but I feel it is in character). That bond, by necessity, begins to include Paul. He is helping to keep these kids safe and the kids are bonding to both of them.
Not to mention they go through ups and downs together that bond them further.
Winter is a typical archetype for death or something bad. I wonder what he should have told her? Maybe he is coming clean that he knows why Peter hasn’t come back yet and, most likely, will not be coming back in their lifetime even if he hurries (and that certainly would have been true if Peter had taken the time to clear up the matter with Captain American and the FF). Maybe he is telling her that since she is the “sacrifice”, Rabin will be back for her. Maybe he is confiding a dark moment from his childhood to her since they have developed a relationship. Could be something else entirely. Whatever the case, it is entirely plausible that MJ and Paul would form a connection that she could not easily break. When she says:
I read this as she will not leave him and the kids and put those kids through more trauma. She loves Peter, but the bond between a mother her children are strong. Are the kids well-being enough to have MJ break up with Peter even if she acknowledges that he did everything possible to come back to her in time? Absolutely. Why does she have such a disdainful attitude toward him in the issues leading up to this? Well, my best guess would be that he has been down-right stalking and harrassing her about this. He is not willing to give it up. Why is she hiding when he calls? Well, many of us thought at the time that it was something sinister about Paul, but I believe it can easily be seen now as she does not want to Paul to hear her talking. I imagine that primarily being together for the kids and her obviously still being in love with Peter puts quite the strain on their relationship.
You hit the jackpot – I am glad to see that MJ is not endowed with super powers, but rather wears a super bracelet instead. This means that should she survive, there is little chance that she will continue to use it, especially since the thing has a chance of death. In fact, I would be very surprised if the “shocking” death in the next issue doesn’t come from that bracelet.
Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends – Would Peter normally pick a fight with the FF? No. However, these are not normal circumstances. A re-read of how the Torch approaches Spider-Man early in this run shows that he doesn’t want the enmity between them, but he can’t seem to find a way to get things back to how they were. Captain America is being a bit hypocritical when he says he would have helped, and I think he knows it, which is why he leaves things the way they are.
It’s a matter of time – OK, so Peter and MJ go away, Peter comes back and only a day has passed. Peter stays a day and comes back and we can only assume minutes have passed. That was six months before the start of issue #1. In issue #1, Peter is pretty much just returning to New York. I assume that he spent six months wandering around in misery? Is that how you guys read the time problem?
Where do we go from here? I think it is pretty certain that the unifying bond for MJ and Paul are the kids. So, what if something happens to the kids? I think if their parents or some other relative are found then the basis for MJ and Paul’s relationship is unstable. However, Peter has moved on from MJ (though clearly not past) with Felicia, so if that were to happen, would he leave Felicia? Would MJ chose to move away in order to not be the woman who breaks up the relationship. Either way, I think there is a path to bring Peter and MJ back together, though most likely not in the near future.
Final Grade
This issue: I thought it was well done. I thought Peter behaved like Peter would in this sort of circumstance. I feel MJ is in character. She used to be the one who ran away from problems. She has grown and developed over the years. Her commitment to the kids shows just how far she has developed her character.
A
This arc: Poorly executed and a bit tone deaf for how to make long time fans invested in a Peter/MJ break up. Plus, way too long between the inroduction of the conflict and the resolution of it with too much Dark Web and such in between. I believe it could have been presented better.
D-
I know my grade doesn’t work for many of you (in fact I am quite sure that Ryan “Pain Bot” Read will not be happy with the issue), so jump into the comments and tell me what I got right or why I am completely wrong.
But Wait! There’s More!
Back up story – In the present, Peter and Black Cat go to a wedding in Omaha, which Peter misses most of the reception trying to recover a stolen wedding gift. It’s fun. It has a call back to “Here Cometh the Commuter”. There were some nice jokes in there as well, like this one:
and this one:
Plus there is a nod to the whole marriage/fan issue when Peter expresses that he doesn’t want to go to this wedding of her friend and she responds, “But Spider, you like weddings.” I don’t think any malice was intended, though it is such a touchy subject, I’m sure some fans will see it as an insult.
What’s Next?
Now fully in the present, the Emissary has returned and his power is so far beyond Spider-Man’s abilities. The heroes may figure out a way to win, but the cost of victory will be so immense that you may hope they don’t…
Extra Credit
OK, so the solicit for #27 is:
Grief looms over Peter after last issue’s shocking death! Spider-Man’s villains are more than happy to keep him distracted… Your eyes don’t deceive you, DOCTOR OCTOPUS IS BACK!
Prediction time: I’m fairly positive the bracelet does the killing, but who dies in #26? Serious and less-than-serious answers are required in the comments section. Crawlspace odds are 75% Gog right now. What other character would have a death that would warrant that much shock factor? As long as it is not Peter’s one true love – Deb Whitman!
‘Nuff Said!
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For a decade fans wanted Peter and MJ back together. Just when we think that could happen, they’re still apart? WTF?!?
Just finished this issue due to being on the delayed digital subscription. I’m a bit confused. The current run of Amazing began with Peter being aware of Mary Jane’s relationship. So was that the present and then we get a flashback of Spidey trying to rescue MJ from the alternate dimension?
Well, I’ve also seen the spoilers, but I don’t want to comment on them until the review for the next issue is up.
Dan Slott made a comment a while back on Twitter (I can’t remember his exact words) about writers obviously wanting to tell the best stories that they can, that they’re fans of the characters too, and genuinely care about Spider-Man. So, I do think it is important to step back and acknowledge that there is no ill intent from Zeb Wells or Nick Lowe here.
Clearly Zeb Wells was presented with the problem of how to keep Peter and MJ apart, and thought this was a good idea. And objectively, you can step back and see why he might’ve thought that.
But, when I think of Spider-Man’s history, I think back to attempts to keep Peter and MJ apart and how they have spectacularly backfired. Like when MJ apparently died in a plane crash and the comics proceeded to try and push Peter together with Mattie Franklin and Jill Stacy, and it simply didn’t work. No quick fix it going to feel earned. Paul does not feel like a suitable replacement for Peter in MJ’s affections. The character, and his relationship with MJ, is too underdeveloped at this point in time.
I think the readership of Spider-Man have experienced too many attempts to break-up Peter and MJ for a story like this to succeed. If you’re going to break-up Peter and MJ effectively, you need to take your time and do it with sensitivity. You can’t rush it.
With another comic book character, you might be able to pull off a story like this. I don’t think that Zeb Wells or Nick Lowe fully appreciated that a clever idea (which this is) wasn’t enough to overcome the complicated history that exists with the Spider-Man and Mary-Jane Watson characters. It’s a failure to look back at Spider-Man’s publishing history, and fully appreciate the scope of the issue, and thus what we have is a very unsatisfying solution.
And yes Mark, I am the same Paul Penna from the Paul Penna Writes Blog.
Hello.
This probably isn’t the place to discuss my own work. That’s really what my blog is for (along with reposting opportunities for other writers and artists, and the occasional post about comic book continuity). However, I do have a blog entry where I linked some of my free strips to make them easy to find. It’s here; https://paulpennawrites.wordpress.com/2020/08/19/index/
And the eight page strip I wrote for Image Comics/Top Cow Productions was reprinted in the Cyber Force: Rebirth Volume 3 trade paperback. It’s still the only mainstream work I’ve done. Most of my work is indie and small press comic strips.
But unfortunately, like for a lot of aspiring comic book writers, there are less and less opportunities to get published. There are a lot of talented people out there, and honestly, people who are a lot more talented than me, that simply can’t find a way into the industry because editors feel like they can’t take a chance on anyone who isn’t an established talent or a “name” writer.
I could say more, but again this probably isn’t the place for that kind of discussion. Suffice to say, I haven’t had anything published recently, but I am working on things at the script stage and with artists, and hopefully some of these projects will eventually see the light of day.
I miss the days of the centidemon.
About her children, I completely understand. In other words: Looking at it like this it makes sense.
And about the subtext, I like that perspective.
Re: the leak- I think the original leak to Reddit and 4chan was against Marvel’s wishes. But then Bleeding Cool confirmed the leaked pages were real, so they could either accuse Bleeding Cool of lying (and look like idiots in two weeks), try to ignore it or try to get some publicity out of it.
@Mark and Michael — I went ahead and took a look at that article, as well, and all I can say is….huh. (without a question mark, although I guess the question mark is warranted).
If Marvel had intended that story to be leaked, then Dan Slott calling the writer at Entertainment Weekly a bad fan for doing so is in even poorer taste.
I guess they had to hype it, but all the hype and resultant heartbreak associated with it had me thinking of higher stakes and scale. Maybe that’s what Marvel wanted.
@Sam and @Michael
Sam – I get that, but for me, I thought the understatement carried more impact. She is conflicted and is making a choice for the good of others, not herself, so she really doesn’t have the words to express herself. Maybe I’m reading too much into it and carrying more weight for the writer than I should. That might come from teaching literature where truly great writers have all sorts of subtext. I do think sometimes I provide more subtext in my head while reading than some texts deserve.
Michael – saw that earlier yesterday morning. I typically avoid spoilers, but I went ahead on this one. Odd all around. The spoiler is odd. The timing of the story is odd. The reaction from Marvel is odd. Maybe after May 31st, I’ll be, “Wow! They actually pulled it off!” but I cannot conceive any possible way to get to that reaction. What would have been cool would be to see Marvel have an accidental leak – but in twelve different platforms – each the exact same page but with each of the characters on the cover. That would have been funny.
To those who typically avoid spoilers, good luck On this one, I think Marvel may have wanted it leaked.
@Mark Alford
At best, someone competent would have at least made something more convincing than “You’ve been gone too long”.
Sorry for the delay, sometimes I forget to check the emails.
The death in issue 26 has been revealed,
Don’t click on the link below unless you want to be spoiled:
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/entertainment-weekly-spoils-amazing-spider-man-26-death-in-headline/
The internet seems to agree this death is a horrible idea.
@Still a nerd and @Aqu@
Still a Nerd – Good points all around. I think I have an explanation for why he didn’t have time for Captain America and the FF and he did have time for Norman. Torch and the Thing were trying to stall him until Reed got there and were thrown off by how frantic he was acting after the explosion in Pennsylvania. Captain America flat out told him it would take them about three days to clear up the Pennsylvania mess and then they would help him. Norman doesn’t need an explanation. He’s been trying to redeem himself to Peter for so long, he helps immediately with no questions asked. Good story or not, I see how that can work. Peter knows every second here counts and he’s hurt, tired, confused, and his friends are stonewalling him. He reverts to his character, which is to be a bit hotheaded and do it his own way.
For the symbology jackpot device, he may not have spent his time trying to make a device to get home because he is in Wayep’s dimension using Wayep’s symbology. We know that Wayep cannot leave his world except for five days of our time. So maybe he already knew that or had already tried it before and knew it wouldn’t work.
I didn’t read the article where Wells says he work his way backwards. Did he say he started the arc not knowing the the way it began or did he say he worked his way backwards while brainstorming? The first way is a bad way to tell a story, the second way not so much so. Also, I’m not defending Wells or the story, just trying to make sense of it all in my head too. It’s a weird feeling. I do not like where the story is going or even care to have the story told, but I do appreciate how it is getting there. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Aqu@ – Not Paul! He’s our favorite! NOOOOOOOOOO!
@michael You are right about artist and children. Look at Stanley, Normie and Dylan. Sometimes they look like toddler, other kids, other teenagers….
@Aqu- one reason I think it’s Robbie is that Randy looks pretty sad on the cover of issue 26. The people closest to him are Robbie and Janice- and Janice is in the solicits for issue 31.
It was stated to be almost 4 years- an adult might not show signs of aging in that time period. As for the kids, aside from the fact that they might not be real, comic book artists can be VERY bad in showing signs of aging in children. (I think we’ve all seen artists that draw 6-year olds and 10-year olds alike,)
@Michael
I don’t think, and I hope it isn’t, Robbie who’s going to die, but if he is, at least let him go out like Captain Stacy, letting Peter know he has known his secret identity for all these years.
@Mike “Stillanerd”
I still have to read all of this arc, but: well put!
@Mark
LOL at the Who Loves Mary Jane event. But stop giving Marvel (terrible) ideas!
As for who I think is going to die next issue, I’ll quote my own -too late to be read by anyone-comment on previous review:
“As for the dreadful death of next issue… It’s a character we all love: PAUL!
LOL Jokes aside, maybe it’s the children (or one of them). That would be shocking. And it’s not like Wells didn’t do something like that before…”
On a side note, do we know exactly how many years have passed for MJ? Maybe in that dimension people don’t grow old, even if time passes. Do we see the children grow up (if it’s been more than two years, it should be evident in children)?
Just reposted what I posted on our Discords, @Mark
Honestly, as much I loathe Peter and Mary Jane being seperated AGAIN, I understand where they’re both coming from. Peter, of course, is going to be confused, sad, and angry over the fact that the woman he loves has chosen another guy over him; it’s only been less than a month for him, meaning his feelings for her haven’t changed. And of course, MJ–someone who came from a broken home, don’t forget–isn’t going to leave Paul and the two kids they “adopted” together. Not after what they went through together. Because for her, it’s been four years living and trying to survive in a post-apocalyptic hellhole, where she and Paul not only had to depend on one another but also protect and nuture two vunernable little kids. There’s no way she would realistically leave them and go back to her old life at that point. From a character standpoint, their feelings and emotions do make sense.
HOWEVER…this is also a flashback story. Moreover, the events from this story weren’t extensively planned ahead of time. What we saw in Amazing Spider-Man #1, in which Peter and MJ are already seperated, with MJ living with some guy named Paul (whose last name we still don’t know, by the way) and the two kids? Zeb Wells already came up with before writing this story and then, by his own admission “worked his way backwards” from that point, making it up as he went along. And in order to do that, he clearly had to stack the deck in order to have what he wrote in ASM #1 make any sense.
Case in point: Paul spends more than a year using his knowledge of “Quantum Symbology” and Magic Math developing the Jackpot device for MJ to help protect her from Rabin, a device which is based purely on randomness and chance and, as he omniously says, something real bad could also happen if MJ gets three skulls (so, of course, we all know that’s going to happen next issue). Why couldn’t he spend that time developing something to…I don’t know? Help MJ get back home to own dimension?! Unless, of course, she has to stay in that dimension in order for Wells to get the desired outcome that he already wrote in ASM #1.
Or how about Peter again in this issue refusing to explain why he did what he did to the Fantastic Four, just so we could have another fight scene, and how he tells Captain America that he didn’t have time to explain what he needed to do in order to save Mary Jane. And yet…he seemed to have plently of time explaining everything to Norman Osborn of all people and spending a month with him developing and stealing parts for a brand new suit, something which Tony Stark likely could’ve whipped up in half the time or less “in a cave with a box of scraps.” Unless, of course, Peter can’t rely on his allies for helpin order for Wells to get the desired outcome that he already wrote in ASM #1.
In other words, this story didn’t actually result from who Peter and MJ are as characters; it resulted from artificial road blocks put in place so they could be detoured towards a predetermined end. That’s the real reason why this is a such crap sandwich of a story–because what we’re reading feels false. And it feels false because it is false.
@Xonathan and @Sthenurus
Xonathan – I think that is the great conundrum of a never ending story (no, not that one with that flying dog-dragon, but now that I said that, I guarantee you will have that stupid song running in your head) is that we want change, but we don’t want to lose what we have. It makes it even harder once time is not supposed to really pass anymore. It’s one thing for Peter to move from high school to college and then from college to career, but once we stop that progression, how do writers tell a new story that doesn’t fundamentally change the brand? A great writer can give the illusion of change, but that’s got to be hard to do and it must get harder the longer the character goes on. I think they need to keep that MJ door cracked and I believe that once this is over, if Peter can go on with his life, we can get good stories without MJ. It’s just being dragged on for far too long. Let’s have Peter and Cat do their thing until Cat messes up (she is a villain at heart) and maybe Peter has a love interest somewhere else for a while and eventually MJ will come back into the picture. But she has to be taken out of the spotlight for that to happen.
No sir – thank you for giving us Thwip Stuidos!
Sthenurus – You and me are in complete alignment! Nothing more I can add to that!
@Chi-Town, @Big John, and @Evan
Chi-Town – I’m going to be honest with you. My big take away from your response was the following: “I admire and respect your opinion and reviews.” BFFs 4-evs!
Big John – I do appreciate the kind words, especially in light of the juxtaposition of the feelings you have for this issue. I do not feel that my take is the “right” take and I completely agree that we do not need a break up issue. I do not see it as a permanent break since, how I saw it, the only thing keeping MJ and Paul together is the concern for those children, which, plays right into what you said about Peter and MJ staying together after the loss of their child. I feel that this builds on that some as this is MJ’s chance to be the mom that was stolen from her. I especially like, from a literary take, that a villain took away her child in the first place and a different villain gives her two here. I think once these kids are gone, and I do feel that there is ample opportunity to take these kids away in a positive manner, MJ’s connection to Paul is over. I also do not believe that they are married despite the recap page a few issues ago. Who would have married them in that wasteland? It does sadden me that so many of us are feeling that these comics are not for us anymore (and I do believe if I wasn’t reviewing, I would have stopped keeping current after the Spencer ending fiasco). I get it. I hope you will still follow the Crawlspace, comment every so often, and once things get a bit better, jump back on.
Evan – Pedro will make a triumphant return this summer as things heat up with a romantic battle between Peter, Paul, and Pedro for the hand of MJ. Who will win her heart? Will winning her heart even be enough? Find out this summer! It all begins in Who Loves Mary Jane Alpha and continues in a 27-part crossover event that involves the Avengers, the New Avengers, the Secret Avengers, seven X-books, and of course Amazing Spider-Man #30, 30.1, 30.mj, 31, 31.2, 31.mj, 32, 32.1, 32.mj, and concludes with a five-issue finale Who Loves Mary Jane Upsilon, Who Loves Mary Jane Phi, Who Loves Mary Jane Chi, Who Loves Mary JanePsi, and Who Loves Mary Jane Omega!
I do think caring for the children for a couple of years would be enough for her, especially in that stupid Hell Gala story where when Peter asks her why and she responds, “Responsibility, Peter.” That said, I don’t particular want this story, I just respect it.
Somewhere in this issue MJ refers to the girl by both names together, so I guess they sometimes use her middle name and sometimes use her first name. It’s just an effort to explain away an obvious mistake on Wells’s part that should have been caught by the editor or assistant editor.
I miss Thwip Studio too!
Thank you for the link to the Commuter video — I missed Thwip Studio!
Your literary connectivity skills are absolutely god-like, sir. Great Scott indeed!
Ok I’m torned on this one. On the one hand, it’s a well written, well drawn story. I believe everything that happens is in characters. Obviously, after spending year in a hellish hole with only one other human being you will start to develop feelings. Same for the children (wether they are real or not)
The explanation of MJ power? Brilliant and on brand.
Peter behavior? A bit on the nose, but not the worst characterisation we have ever seen.
All in all, it’s nowhere near as bad as sin past or omd.
HOWEVER
There is nothing in this issue (except for MJs power) that we didn’t already figured out. As that long drawn amazing mystery, it’s a failure.
I believe that if that issue would have been #2 or #3 it would have been received a lot better and would have made this run a whole lot more palatable.
Tldr: to me the story itself is very decent, but it doesn’t live up to the hype marvel drummed up for it in the past year.
Story itself: B+ (well written, drawn and plotted)
Story in context: C- (nowhere near as “surprising” or “shocking” as marvel made it out to be.)
Like Penna mentioned Marvel could just have MJ move on and marry someone else. But that would be too easy and close the door on the relationship. Marvel is keeping it slightly opened to bait fans into “they might get together eventually” territory. And I get the soap opera aspect of this and how it’s supposed to “attract customers” but it’s been done SO many times with MJ it’s repetitive, tiresome, and at this point insulting. Peter’s life can have soap opera drama that doesn’t involve MJ. The real question is: Is putting MJ in danger for the 1000th time working? Are sales going up because fans want to know what will happen between Peter and MJ? Don’t know and without the numbers we will never know. But if people keep buying this Marvel will keep doing these stunts over and over. So everyone please vote with your wallets.
If the aim of Marvel is to keep the characters AS IS for the next writer then chances are all of this will be undone by the end of Well’s run. The kids, the years gap in MJ’s life, maybe even Paul. But Peter and MJ will still be separated at the end with a “maybe they’ll get together someday”
Thanks for posting the link Mark!
I will go back and read the comments (one of my favorite parts of these reviews!) after I add my thoughts here:
These seemed like a very roundabout way to break up Peter and Mary Jane. I suppose it demonstrates more forethought and writing skill than, say, a deal with the devil, but it still feels very contrived to me. I don’t even think the presence of children is enough to justify Mary Jane’s moving on like that. Maybe I’m naive in that way, but I would think that should would feel somewhat traitorous to Peter, even if a couple of years go by — and would maybe, therefore, be overjoyed to be reunited with him. Of course, I suppose it’s possible that she might think Paul is, quite literally, the last man on earth. Whatever happened to the firefighter, Pedro? Shouldn’t she be still be hung up on him, at least, for that matter?
Also, was there an explanation why the little girl’s name changed between earlier issues?
I suppose the title is a reference to the book and movie Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?, but I’m not sure of the significance other than the play on words. Ah, “Mary” replaced “Baby,” and since Mary is the mother of the Christ child, clearly this has biblical implications. Okay, I’m joking.
Thank you for the link to the Commuter video — I missed Thwip Studio!
I’m trying to think of a Peter, Paul, and Mary reference, but none of their songs titles seem to lend themselves to this particular story. Oh well.
I still must wonder if MJ will die (temporarily) — I’m unable to make any jokes about that.
Wait a second. The film Whatever Happened to Baby Jane came out in 1962, the same year as the first Peter, Paul, and Mary album, and the same year as Spider-man’s debut.
Great Scott!
Thanks Mark. As always, you’ve given us a really solid review and analysis. I especially appreciate how level headed your perspective was.
Mine was not.
I absolutely hated this comic. Maybe even more so than ASM#545. In the latter, at the very least, there was a glimmer of hope that that disaster of a narrative could be swiftly undone, but “Dead Languages” has created such a mess of things that I can’t think of a way to quickly and smoothly undo this beyond another time-skip or retcon, neither of which I would like to see.
To clear, I think that your perspective on the comic, as succinctly expressed by Mr. Penna, is the “correct” one. But in no way is this a story I ever wanted to see. While you’ve made a good argument that both Peter and MJ are written in-character, frankly, there is no good Spider-Man story that breaks them up. That shipped sailed at the end of the Clone Saga, after Peter’s worst enemy forced MJ to miscarriage. But, they chose to stay together and, as Mackie/Greenberg wrote at the end of PPSM#75 “to grow stronger as husband and wife.” That was it. Decision: made. And, yes, I understand that people change. But that constitutes a formative moment for them, and I see no way in which it could be satisfactorily undone.
Mark, I sincerely admire your ability to separate an emotional response from an analytical one. That’s why Brad “pays you the big bucks” to review these issues (give the man a raise BD!). You are an excellent critic. But I realize now that I will never be able to fully do that. I’m reading these purely as a fan, and now I finally see what George, Peter, and countless others have been realizing over the past 16 years:
These comics are not written for me.
Again, thank you Mark, and as always, Viva Crawlspace!
Mark, I’m glad we agree that Paul Penna said it better than you. Even though, I admire and respect your opinion and reviews (don’t get ahead of yourself, I was drinking a lot last night), I pretty much summed your review as saying “Look at this nice new home on the market, which happens to be in the very crappy non-livable neighborhood.” That house doesn’t need to be there, nor should it. It’s a bait to get buyers into their brand of lifestyle the HOA wants you to live in. Wow, I’m impressed with that analogy….and so are you.
Peter has been “hot headed”, yes, but may I point out the Black In Black arc where he kicked the Kingpin’s ass. He was angry and hotheaded, but he also DRIVEN, SMART, FOCUSED. He knew exactly what needed to be done and executed it with style. THAT’S a MATURE hotheaded Peter Parker that he needs to be. The hotheaded we saw was from the 70’s, which is the brand editorial wants. Like it has been said many times, this story is editorial driven. It’s their “Preference” or “Mandate” that is driving the bus. MJ “may” be in character here, but the dreaded “mandate” put her in a situation that she just didn’t need to be into. Honestly, I would have loved this story if Peter and MJ were stuck in this world for 4 years raising these kids trying to get back home. That would have made a better story, that’s characters driving the story. Not the other way around.
Editorial complains about how the Spider-Marriage was “forced”. Well now, if that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black. THIS ENITIRE RUN IS “FORCED”. The Spider-Marriage was based on real years of rich continuity between Peter and Mary Jane. It fits. Wells run is FORCED and barely explained in one issue. Like, the whole magic “accepting her chains” with MJ (which you missed on reviewing) and the backpaddling of Flashbacks in this story. The DOUBLE SIZE issue didn’t even explain more, only a side story is Peter and Felicia going to wedding. Our very own Mike “StillANerd” said this in our discord which completely blew me away “Rainbow Rowell back-up, even though it’s supposed to be a Spider-Man/Black Cat story, if you recolor Felicia’s hair to red and have her call Peter “Tiger” instead of “Spider,” have Peter call her “Mary Jane” and not “Felicia, and made no other changes, it could easily pass as a Spider-Man/Mary Jane story. In fact–and perhaps I’m being way too conspiratorial about this–I am all but convinced this was originally written and illustrated with Mary Jane in the story instead of Felicia but, because of current continuity,” I was interiged..so I read it and I can totally see where he’s coming from! Otherwise, why didn’t Felicia GO WITH SPIDER-MAN to stop the thieves?!
My grade is a D+. The art wad good to decent. I can’t and won’t buy into this slop. In my opinion, if Wells is going to write a good Spider-Man Story, find a good area to build that foundation. I don’t thinks Wells is a good fit for Spider-Man, in fact, I know he isn’t. Good writer, absolutely, but not for Spider-Man. It’s all editorial mandate driven. As promised I will continue to read your reviews and point out the mistakes you made. I’m thrilled to see that the previous comments have already done that. I’m there for you, buddy!
@Paul Penna – “Zeb Wells is a brilliant writer. This issue is really well written. As frustrating as this issue is, you can’t genuinely deny that fact. As much as I dislike the story, I’m in no way attacking the creative team. They’ve done beautiful work here. But the concept is completely wrong-headed. As well written as the issue really is, that can’t make up for the fact that this is a story which shouldn’t have been told.” THAT! That encapsulates what I was trying to say much better than I said! Wow! Nice going, Paul! Was it told well? Yes! Did it need to have been told? No!
By the way, are you the Paul Penna from the Paul Penna Writes Blog? Where would we find some of your work?
I think this story was very well written, with great characterisation, and I genuinely liked the development of MJ’s and Paul’s relationship, despite Paul still being quite underdeveloped. If Paul is sticking around, they need to fix that.
But all that can’t fix the fact that the basis for this story feels like an editorial mandate and nothing more. And there is nothing wrong with having editorial mandates, if you find the right story to justify them. But this ain’t it.
I would’ve enjoyed this story just fine if it was a What If? or didn’t involve such an important character as Mary Jane, who has been around since 1965. The purpose of this story doesn’t feel like it’s to entertain, or to be enjoyable to the fans in any way, it is purely designed to take MJ off the board and make the character unusable at least as a future love interest.
The character of MJ deserves to be respected more by the folks behind the scenes, and the readers of the comic deserve more respect too. I agree with pretty much everything Mark said in his review. This is completely tone deaf in regards to the fans.
Break up Peter and MJ. Hell, marry Mary Jane off to someone else. I’m a comic book writer, and you know what, when thinking about how I’d handle Marvel’s seeming editorial mandate about keeping Peter and MJ apart, I’ve totally considered marrying MJ to someone else as a legitimate way to do that. It isn’t what the fans want, but if you introduced a romantic rival, and slowly developed the romance, while highlighting the ways Pete and MJ’s relationship doesn’t work, you could win some fans over. Spider-Man is at it’s heart a soap opera, and losing the girl you love because you’re out there playing hero, thematically ties into the core of what makes Spider-Man who he is.
Shifting MJ to a parallel dimension where the years roll by, and foisting a man and kids on her feels forced because it is forced. As a writer, you’re basically acknowledging the Pete and MJ should be together and only artificial obstacles are keeping them apart. How can that possibly feel satisfying to the readership?
Zeb Wells is a brilliant writer. This issue is really well written. As frustrating as this issue is, you can’t genuinely deny that fact. As much as I dislike the story, I’m in no way attacking the creative team. They’ve done beautiful work here. But the concept is completely wrong-headed. As well written as the issue really is, that can’t make up for the fact that this is a story which shouldn’t have been told.
@Michael and @Sam
Michael – I will admit, I missed that (oh the chagrin!) about the “accepting her chains”. That works much better. How did I miss this? Brad, I’ll hand in my reviewer’s badge tomorrow morning for such an error. “Having the kids turn out to be fake seems like a cruel thing to do to MJ.” Yes, and that raises the stakes even more.
I feel that MJ and Paul are not overly romantic because the children are what keep them together. Without the children, I could see her starting to bond with Paul out of shared experiences, but easily going back to Peter when he returns.
Robbie? You make a good point. That makes as much sense as any. I don’t really see any being as shocking as Gwen’s death not more shocking than Aunt May’s death in #400. But Robbie would be a big one. How to bring him into this story, though, I’m not sure.
Sam – Poor execution is right. What could this title be with a great editor to lead the way and plan things out for the story value instead of whatever guides Lowe?
@Mohammed, @Adam, @Joshua Nelson
Mohammed – I think there is a love of sorts there. I think that is what the hand holding scene is supposed to show. Do I think that MJ believes this is her one true love? Nope. But I do think that the bond they share in raising these kids is what binds them together. I think she is keeping Peter away out of determination to make this new life for her and the kids work. I guess we will see next issue.
Adam – Yeah, I’d rather read a different ending. We knew this ending was coming, but still rooted against it.
Joshua – The jerky response in this case is warranted. He put everything he had and then some into getting back to MJ only to find that he lost her. He’s hurting and a good fight with anyone would be a bit cathartic for him in a way.
I do think we got the why she fell in love with Paul, but you are right in that we still know so little about him. I also agree that one of his main purposes is to provoke some response from the fans. My instinct is that Wells wants to use this to get fans involved into the story, but executed poorly. Having fans worry for their favorite characters is a good way to keep readers invested, but you have to know where that line is. This is akin to the Nazi Captain America twist. Sometimes you push fans too far and they become un-invested.
Rabin needs to be boring and one-note. The focus of this story is Peter and MJ. A villain of note detracts from that story. We need him to be powerful enough to be a threat (he’s got a god’s power, so that checks), but we do not need him to require too much of a backstory or motivation that would take up panel space from Peter and MJ. Much like the villain in the first Suicide Squad. She wasn’t important, just a means to an end. That’s Rabin. He’s not long term. At best, he’s condemned to Wayeb’s domain and we see him every 100 issues or so when he can leave the domain.
“If Mary Jane actually does die next issue as many are speculating, I honestly don’t even think I’ll care.” I think that is Lowe’s big mistake. This was dragged out so long, the impact is dulled. “I just don’t care anymore.” I hate to hear that. I do hope we get a change in the office soon and things get better for all of us.
Said everything. The general problem is poor execution (not that the story is good in essence).
One thing I don’t think you realized- it’s clearly implied that the children are creations of Rabin’s magic. We see Rabin drawn two symbols and say “May the woman accept her chains” . Then later, we see Rabin say to MJ that he will return once she has accepted her chains. Then she and Paul meet the kids who have no parents and no explanation how they survived. Then, Rabin says that MJ is “bound”.
Having the kids turn out to be fake seems like a cruel thing to do to MJ.
(Although a crueler thing would if Peter lets one of the kids die and then finds out they’re real after all, just altered by Rabin’s magic.)
So what is Paul’s secret? He tells MJ that he should have told her something and later the doctor at the hospital says they’ve been unable to ID Paul. One theory I’ve heard is that Paul is impotent or sterile due to Rabin’s tortures. Another is that Paul is some kind of future version of Peter. (Personally, I wonder if Paul’s last name is Lincoln and he’s related to Lonnie and Janice.)
Is there a reason why MJ told Felicia not to tell Peter about her Jackpot powers in the Mary Jane and Black Cat series?
Note that there were few scenes of Paul and MJ being romantic. I wonder if they’re not a couple and MJ is lying for some reason. But why?
We saw one panel in issue 8 with a flashback of Paul hitting Peter. And we saw a panel this issue with Peter hitting Paul. I guess they took turns hitting each other in a scene we never saw?
Re: who dies? My guess is either Aunt May, Jonah or Robbie, none of whom have done much in this story so far, which is odd. Robbie seems like the likeliest candidate. In the covers we’ve seen so far of issue 31, where Randy and Janice get married, we’ve seen Tombstone on the cover but not Robbie. Admittedly, it’s possible there are variants with Robbie and they just haven’t been released yet. But killing Robbie before his son’s wedding would be tragic. So far, in Wells’s run, we’ve seen Robbie find out his son is getting married and make peace with his oldest enemy- he might just as well announced he was retiring.
It’s funny that the whole “what did Peter do?” mystery has amounted to nothing. Peter acted like an impulsive jerk towards Captain America and the Fantastic Four, hence why everyone is angry with him. Yeah, that tracks.
Speaking of funny, this issue was supposed to show how and why Mary Jane fell in love with Paul, yet we still know absolutely nothing about him as a character (including his last name). Paul truly is just a plot device created for the sole purpose of upsetting fans.
As for Rabin, he continues to be as boring and one-note as ever, so there really isn’t much to say there. I doubt the final issue will make him any better.
If Mary Jane actually does die next issue as many are speculating, I honestly don’t even think I’ll care. Marvel has been undermining her character for at least fifteen years at this point, so they might as well kill her off if they have absolutely no intention of restoring her to the character the fans know and love. It’s sad that I’m even saying that about one of my favorite supporting characters in comics, but that’s where I am right now. It looked as though things would change with Nick Spencer’s run, but Marvel ground that into the dirt. I just don’t care anymore.
This is a difficult, bittersweet issue with an ending that bums me out. Your A and D- average out to my grade.
While I disagree with your grade – C- from me
From what I’ve read, I don’t think she’s staying with “paul” because she loves him, but more out of obligation and whatever Rabin did to her.
Because he knew Peter was returning for her and it could be that he was that one that delayed his arrival, so that whatever Rabin did would take hold of Mary Jane, which Rabin said did.
and everything she’s done in the past year to keep Peter away, was out of love for him, because she knew Rabin will return and she didn’t want Peter to be devastated by what’s possibly going to happen to her.