Tangled Webs: The Spider-Marriage Debate Part 1

This is edited from a series of emails.

There’s no getting around it. One of the big questions about what Marvel should do with Spider-Man involves how they should handle One More Day. This is a major part of the status quo, and it’s relevant to figuring out what can happen in the book. It’s more important than most decisions, since it will affect the next writers. If Zeb Wells continues to focus on B-list villains in big stories (the opening arc with Tombstone, the current story with Rabin, the 900th issue with the Living Brain), that won’t prevent his successor from featuring A-listers or new villains. If editorial pushes against guest starrs, there’s no narrative reason they can’t change their mind. If Peter Parker moves to Florida, he can come back to New York with a suitcase full of Spider-Man costumes on Page 1 of the next run. And if he gets a new costume, the next creative team can throw it in the trash. But whether the main character is married or not is going to affect other peoples’ plans for the series going forward.

When I saw the response to ChitownSpidey’s article about asking Cebulski a question at the Chicago comic-con, I realized it could be interesting to have some kind of written exchange on the merits of the Spider-Man marriage. I think One More Day was a smart decision executed imperfectly, but there are plenty on the Crawlspace who disagree. André Santana volunteered to give his rationale for reversing One More Day.

There’s been a lot of arguing about One More Day, but there haven’t been many situations where two people put their case for the right approach going forward, and politely interrogate the other. One further complication is that a lot of the discussion is about whether One More Day was the right decision at the time, rather than what’s the best approach now when Miles Morales is the young 616 Spider-Man, writers have to figure out what superheroes were up to in the time New York shut down due to Covid, the actors playing Peter & MJ in the movies are a power couple, several blockbuster films have featured team-ups between multiple versions of Spidey so the idea of one true version is passé for many in the audience, etc.

I told André that he seems to be a generous guy who doesn’t take disagreement personally, and since I don’t like insulting others, I expect it would be a civil exchange. We agreed to discuss it via email, and then I would post the results on the Crawlspace as a series of articles. My thinking is that it would be a written series of exchanges composed in private so it shouldn’t get too heated. We can each take our time, so that would keep tensions low.

My current thought is that this could be split up into smaller focused sections. Part 1 (this entry) is about how we came to be Spider-Man fans, basics on why the decision about the spider-marriage matters and maybe how we first came to our particular conclusions. Part 2 could be the best argument (from my perspective) for Peter Parker being single/ unmarried (I have to make this distinction because in the past I’ve gotten into pedantic arguments with readers who think that Peter being single means there’s no room for him to ever be in a relationship of any kind.) Part 3 could be the best argument (from André’s perspective) for Peter Parker being married to MJ. At that point, we can see if there’s anything more to say.

It’s possible that with later entries coinciding with the publication of Amazing Spider-Man Volume 6 #26 that this project that I intended to be evergreen will involve discussion of recent developments. This would be a way to share the best versions of our arguments, which isn’t necessarily the same as everyone else’s. There are people out there with different views on why they liked One More Day (maybe they’ve been shipping Peter & Black Cat for years) as well as why they want it reversed ASAP. To make it easier to tell the difference, André’s responses are in yellow. The opening question I had for André  was “how did you get into Spider-Man?” And here’s his response.

André: Hello there Thomas and Crawlspace readers; and thanks again for the invitation and the remarks on my work here on Crawlspace. For the sake of the debate which I love when it’s civil and rational (especially in writing), this one here might be able to grant an array of thoughts to new and old Spider-Man readers alike, thus inviting them to revisit all the most important canonical comic book issues and reflect upon them with not only with a nostalgic perspective but also with an understanding one. This debate also allows me (for the second time) as a Spider-Historian to use the pronoun “I” to define and elaborate a more structural argument according to my personal opinion – something I avoid to do it in my reviews.  After all, this is a cultural icon built upon a chronological history – the kind that few others in the media are still struggling to build. It’s a life story.

For some like me at this point, it’s even a weird exercise to imagine (my) life without the presence of this modern myth; because he was there from the very moment I learned how to read. I actually got literate by reading comics at the age of three – and just so it happened that a Spider-Man issue was one of those that paved the way; I cannot remember which was it, but definitely, one drawn by John Romita Sr. How did it fall in my hands? Possibly by connecting the dots from the Saturday morning cartoons, the Atari videogame, or even someone’s lunchbox. But it was right there at the newsstand when my Parents were getting their newspapers and magazines that I might have pointed at that (reprint) issue and my destiny was sealed.

In hindsight, as I was slowly meeting other (comic) readers while growing up, I noticed that I was already part of that unspoken and unofficial cadre of boys who also loved comics but were also too quiet or shy to reveal themselves as fans in public or at school. “It’s a silly children’s habit” as we used to hear from the girls of our age who preferred the older and less knowledgeable boys who drank in secrecy from their parents and bullied us to death before, during, and after school hours. Right there and then, Peter Parker gave us solace by showing us that we were the good, deep, intelligent heroes and they were the anabolic and desperate for attention Flash Thompsons and Harry Osborns, whose rich fathers were quite akin to either Norman Osborns or George Stacys. Escapism? Probably – but inarguably a survival manual that taught us how to be good, despite all practical and personal difficulties in life.

Batman? Absolutely the coolest; the X-Men? Well, not all of us could have the best of friends. Superman? Wow, that was the unreachable epitome of what we really wanted and Christopher Reeve was our dad who saved the world on a daily basis. But Spider-Man…? Well, he was us. No more, no less. And the best of it all: he was learning and growing up with us; that says a lot. It’s no wonder I decided to track down all of his first stories from the beginning, so he could always be there in mine for future ones. And so here I am today, still following his life. What about you, Thomas?

To that I replied “Wow, how do I respond to that? That was lovely.” I love Spider-Man. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the best character in fiction. He’s unparalleled in comics, and after No Way Home, I don’t think there’s a protagonist I like more in film. George Bailey’s been in one good movie. Vito Corleone was in two. Spidey’s got them beat.

I first became aware of the character because the New York Daily News had the comic strip, and that was one of my favorites when I was really young. At some point, I discovered that there were comic books with this guy, because in New York in the 90s, street vendors sometimes sold comics. I got a handful of scattered issues. The first one I remember getting was Spider-Man #46 by Howard Mackie , the first chapter of Beware the Rage of a Desperate Man by Howard Mackie and Tom Lyle, because Hobgoblin was on the cover, and he was in one of the comic strip stories (the Mutant Agenda) published at that time.

I got a handful of issues especially when I discovered the existence of comic book stores. Highlights were Spider-Man #1 by Todd Mcfarlane, which made the Lizard my favorite villain, Marvel Tales reprints of the first Sinister Syndicate story by Tom Defalco and Ron Frenz and the first appearance of Scorpion by Lee and Ditko, and a Spider-Man Megazine issue with “Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut” by Roger Stern and John Romita Jr, the End of Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #18) by Lee/ Ditko and a Human Torch team up against Morbius by Gerry Conway and Ross Andru. My first exposure to the character in a continued narrative where his status quo could change from one story to another was through the 1990s Fox Animated series, which had the Lizard as the bad guy in the first episode, so that immediately hooked me. I got some scattered comics and TPBs (Spider-Man VS Green Goblin, the Original Clone Saga and Death of Jean Dewolff for the win!) but it was the early 90s, so there wasn’t as much of a market for reprints.

I was getting into the character at an inaccessible time during the Clone Saga, the Mackie/ Byrne relaunch and the intermediate era in between. I remember liking Chapter One, until I picked up Essential Spider-Man Volume 1, which had t he original work by Lee and Ditko, and it was so much better. It seems in retrospect that I devoured the first three volumes of Essential Spider-Man really quickly and those were the highlights of the comics I read in middle school. I was a brown haired dorky white kid who lived close to Forest Hills, and walked there every Sunday to visit my grandparents, and check out the comic book section at the local WaldenBooks. I was primed to be a major Spider-Man fan, even if at the time I was more into the Sonic the Hedgehog comics. I changed schools in second grade, although I kept touch with my best friend Deric Marshall. We likely became friends because we were short, and schools make students line up in alphabetical order by last name. And when I got into comics, and decided it was my dream to be a comic book writer, I discovered that Deric had gotten into comics and really wanted to be a comic book artist. Deric’s entry to comics was through the Spawn action figures, and his favorite artist was Todd Mcfarlane, so being a big comics geek helped me stay closer to my best friend. Many of the times we hung out were when we went to comic conventions in Long Island or in Manhattan.

When I was in high school, I was getting a bit more discerning about comics, discovering good stuff like Preacher, Sandman, Watchmen, Marvels, the Frank Miller Batman and the Claremont/ Byrne X-Men. But the Spider-Man comics got better, with Bendis/ Bagley on Ultimate Spider-Man, Jenkins/ Buckingham on Peter Parker Spider-Man, and JMS/ Romita Jr on Amazing Spider-Man, so I grew to appreciate the character even more. Everything was great about Spider-Man. The power set. The rogues gallery. The villains. The variety of writers and artists. The costume. And most importantly, the guy behind the mask. He spoke to me for reasons that I couldn’t articulate at the time, although I recognize that he’s a talented guy who means well, even if others don’t quite understand him. I think that’s a message that appeals to most of the readers.

As I told André “I guess it’s time to talk about the spider-marriage. How did you feel about it? When did you realize there was any debate about it?”

André: Asking if erasing Peter and MJ’s marriage was (or still is) a good idea is asking if Spider-Man should be rebooted. If the answer is “NO”, I’m so sorry, but it has happened – more than once, nonetheless; and I’m not talking about the new #1’s; it’s Spider-Man’s entire life. Just ask Joe Quesada and Tom Brevoort. It was just like DC’s new 52 – a quasi-Orwellian/pretending reality, which no characters in the DC noticed, but we knew. And since I’m all about Spider-history and leaving no stone unturned, let’s go back to Amazing Spider-Man #143 (April 1975) when the best first kiss ever published in a superhero comic was printed, courtesy of Ross Andru, Frank Giacoia, and Dave Hunt on art & Gerry Conway as the scripter: I like to believe that one day in the bullpen, Stan Lee had a serious epiphany about his co-creations, their longevity, legacy and the actual life ahead of them (even if it meant a fictional one). Probably before passing the torch to Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway, he gave those two specific instructions as to how they wanted those characters to evolve. The word alone carries a lot of weight; when it came down to the life and times of Peter Parker, he knew that a natural progression of his life into adulthood would be inevitable. Something that even Harry Potter fans understand. What that kiss meant was not only a joke – but a promise. Of course we’re dealing with a fictional character, but if Peter Parker is the ultimate embodiment of the “hero that could be you!” why not be rewarded with something good after a great loss?

If that argument alone does not convince you, just take a look at the 142 issues that preceded it: the main character could not be stuck in his teenage days forever – he had to evolve; progress; grow. That’s the path that Ditko and Lee showed: Loss. Learning. Victory. Repeat. To exemplify: Death of Ben (right in the first issue!), Graduation day, and the culmination of the Master Planner saga with “If This Be My Destiny” in ASM #33. A tough act to follow, so what did Conway do? The Death of Gwen and that first kiss with Mary Jane in the airport – which did not cause too much fuzz for being a happy moment, but still, it meant a lot. Unlike characters in the New 52, that kiss is not something to be ignored.

Over to you, Thomas.

Mets: I can appreciate that. I wonder to what extent differences in our viewpoints might be in how we came to be Spider-Man fans and experience the comic. I first got exposed to the married version of the character in the comic strip by Stan Lee, Alex Savuik, Larry Lieber and probably Roy Thomas. When I started buying the comics, he was typically married, although there were frequent back issues where he was single. I became a regular reader of a few of the titles right after the clone saga, and was a big fan of the 1990s Fox Animated series, which was clearly setting up Mary Jane Watson as the love of Peter’s life. The marriage was part of the status quo as far as I was concerned. I wanted to be a comic book writer, and did not mind the idea of writing a married Spidey (I still wouldn’t mind that, to be honest.)

I did realize that there were some fans and comics pros who didn’t like the marriage. There were some Wizard editorials that suggested that Peter Parker works better when he’s single. I started reading the John Byrne message board, and he was really against it. And I was familiar with the idea that some writers who had runs in the past (Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern) or seemed likely to have runs in the future (Ed Brubaker, Mark Waid) weren’t fans of the marriage, although it didn’t seem to be that big a problem for me.

It also seemed to me that there wasn’t a way to put the genie back in the bottle. I didn’t think it made sense to kill off Mary Jane, because making Peter a widower wouldn’t make him seem younger, would make him irresponsible for getting into relationships with any woman who doesn’t have superpowers, and there would be the likelihood of some kind of return. I didn’t think a divorce made sense, given what the characters had been through and considering how divorced people would read as even older than married people. And I didn’t think a Crisis on Infinite Earths style reset would work with the Marvel comics. Joe Quesada had been open about wanting to get rid of the marriage, and he was the Editor in Chief, so I was considering the merits of that as an intellectual exercise.

I did like some stories where Peter was single. When I finally got to read the big Lee/ Ditko and Lee/ Romita stories in the first three volumes of Essential Spider-Man, I got to appreciate how one story flows into another in those runs, which is a big part of Spider-Man’s appeal. The Untold Tales of Spider-Man back issues I could find were much better than most of the regular Spider-Man comics published in the 90s. I didn’t connect the dots on this until a few years later, but it did seem to me that new comics where Peter and MJ weren’t married seemed to have a better batting average than the stories where they were married. Examples would include Ultimate Spider-Man, various untold tales (Webspinners or mini-series like Negative Exposure), the Jenkins/ Buckingham stories where Mary Jane was believed dead and then the JMS/ Romita Jr or Jenkins/ Buckingham stories set when Peter and MJ were separated.

I was pretty active on comic book message boards, and participating in the arguments, which is when I became radicalized on this, so to speak. Initially, my views were more anti-anti Quesada, where it was more that I thought the arguments against what he wanted to do were weak, rather than that I thought it was essential to make Peter single. Then the comics press started getting hints about One More Day, where Quesada seemed to have a way to break up Peter & MJ without a divorce, without anyone dying and without jettisoning most of the continuity. My major concerns were addressed, and I was convinced by the argument that there were more stories that could be told with a single Spider-Man, which will be the main question for the second article, since I do think that is the best argument for getting rid of the spider-marriage.

André, thanks again for agreeing to this. Now I’ll extend questions to you guys. How did you come to be Spider-Man fans? When did you realize anyone cared whether this fictional character is married? What do you think are best arguments for and against the spider-marriage?