Peter and MJ actually interact and talk like grown-ups! Wacky hijinks with bad villains. Wait, did I accidentally get the issue that was intended for Mark to review?
(Is it just me or does Electro’s face look like Francine’s – the female Electro? Those eyes and that smile – they don’t make me think this is Max.)
CREDITS
Writer: Zeb Wells
Guest Artist: Carmen Carnero
Color Artist: Marcio Menyz
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramagna
Variant Cover Artists: SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! LOVELY SPAM! WONDERFUL SPAM!
PREVIOUSLY IN AMAZING SPIDER-MAN …
Anna Watson is still locked up in Ravencroft with the likes of Hippo, Mr. Hyde, and Panda-Mania. Spidey snuck in and injected her with a cure for her KDS(1) which seemed to cure her. He tried to take take her out of there but she insisted on staying, paying her debt, and getting out the legal way. Later Peter quits Oscorp but Norman (not acting evil at all) insists on keeping him on the payroll and letting him show up to work when he can (where can I get that job? Seriously, I need a job). Meanwhile Curt Connors is working on the Living Brain. Peter and MJ go to Ravencroft and visit Anna, who is making friends with the Human Fly, Whirlwind and the Sandman, who turned himself in because he’s trying to become a better person. He tells Peter that “they” want Sandman to turn back into his evil Flint Marko persona. Who are “they”? The Sinister Six: Doc Ock, Mysterio, Electro(2), Vulture and “Kraven”!
SUMMARY
Four of the members of the Sinister Six – Mysterio, Vulture, “Kraven”, Doc Ock, and Electro – are discussing how Sandman is not with them because he turned himself in to Ravencroft to “better himself” (how dare he!). Ock says that he must be broken out to recreate the original Sinister Six, which Electro volunteers to do.
(I tried to figure out a joke involving how some families leave an empty seat at the table for Elijah at Passover, but I couldn’t make it work.)
Peter is leaving his home when Michele shows up. Remember her? Janice’s friend and bridesmaid, who is also Tombstone’s lawyer?(3) She claims that Peter made a date with her and stood her up, but he has no idea what she’s talking about. She leaves, thinking Peter is a “complete psychopath”, with the whole thing observed by Jackpot (ugh)(4).
(Such a wonderful way to reintroduce a character and get the readers to like them.)
On the roof of Ravencroft, Peter and MJ talk about relationships and moving on.
(Marvel: “You wanted scenes of Peter and MJ together? Here you go! Now stop complaining and buy enough copies of this so it goes to 5th printing too!”)
Inside Ravencroft, Anna and Sandman are doing some plant therapy(5). Shay, the nurse, escorts Anna back to her room, as she says goodnight to all of her fellow inmates. But there is an electrical surge, witnessed by Spidey and Jackpot.
Electro is already inside, boasting that the backup generators actually helped him. Spidey webs him up with insulated webbing, but Electro boasts that Ock taught him some new tricks.
(Wait, what?)
Wait a minute. Even for a comic book this sounds bizarre. Can Electro actually do this?
So I Googled “can electricity overload motor neurons in muscles” and the first result was a page on Quora.com where someone asked:
I’m writing a story about an elemental who can control electricity. Do you think that they could actually control some of the muscles in the body because of the electrical currents in the neurons?
Most of the answers were either nonsensical or jokes, but one of them directed me to a related question on Quora:
If Electro can control electricity, could he technically be able to take control of the electricity required for your brain and nervous system to work?
And aside from the expected (non-helpful) answers, there were some with actual information, but there was one that seemed to be the best answer for my question:
“A comic book writer & their illustrators can create anything in a comic book world, as these comic books are fantasy and are not real world occurrences!”
(And now back to our review.)
Electro breaks out of the webbing, so Jackpot uses her wrist gizmo to create … octopus tentacles (sure, why not?).
(Jackpot’s magic bracelet can turn her into Doctor Octopus. So now you can Google “Mary Jane tentacles” and get this (along with other search results, I’m sure).)
Meanwhile, with the electricity fried by Electro’s attack, the inmates realize that this is the time for a jailbreak. Anna tries to tell them that breaking out isn’t right, but Mr. Hyde, Hippo, Panda-Mania, and Whirlwind do not listen to her and leave.
(I gotta admit – this hurt. I expected this from Human Fly, Hippo and Whirlwind, but not you, Panda-Mania!)
Jackpot wraps up Electro with her tentacles, but he sends a current back through them. Spidey pulls her away and ends up on top of her, where she lets him know that she already let her tentacles go because she knew Electro was going to zap them. Which leads to another awkward exchange.
(Hey, call me crazy, but I think these two crazy kids have some chemistry! Some real sexual tension going on here. Am I right?)
Meanwhile Electro sneaks off to find Sandman in the Plant Therapy room. Sandman (William Baker) says that he’s not coming with him. As Electro is about to turn him into glass, Anna throws a flowerpot at Electro, telling him that William is her friend. As Electro is about to attack Anna, he’s stopped by Whirlwind and the other inmates, who came back to save Anna.
(I knew these murderous criminals had hearts of gold after all!)
Jackpot arrives to hit Electro with a pink bowling ball (yes, really). The Human Fly helps out, and Spidey takes out Electro by … shoving Hippo(6) onto him.
(So this has to be Electro’s most humiliating defeat, right?)
Later we find out that the inmates gave credit for stopping the escape to Anna, so the asylum let her go home(7), Sandman continues with his plant therapy, Electro is being taken to the Raft, and Peter and MJ decide that even though they work well together as Spidey and Jackpot, that’s a good reason for them not to do it again.
(Just kiss already!)
And that’s it, the story is over.
Oh wait, there’s more? Look at this, there’s more pages!
Back in plant therapy, William Baker says tells Nurse Shay that he can’t hear or feel Flint Marko in his head, which means “if he’s not here, maybe I’m not either”. And with that, he turns to sand and collapses. Meanwhile the flowerpot Anna brought home from Ravencroft erupts in a burst of sand, which travels across the city and attacks the van transporting Electro.
(The second most evil plant I have ever seen.)
Back at the Sinister Six headquarters, Mysterio, Doc Ock, Vulture and “Kraven” (still sitting at the table, likely for this whole issue) welcome Flint Marko (in full Sandman form) as he and Electro arrive, asking “What’s next?”
(Narrator: It actually was the end)
INITIAL RESPONSE
Maybe I’ve just been hit over the head with bad ASM issues too many times recently, but I kind of liked this issue? There were some problems, but it was low stakes, had some laughs, and wrapped up the Anna Watson story.
WHAT I LIKED
Peter and MJ actually interact and have some conversations they should have had long ago in this run. Even if some of these interactions were while she was Jackpot, this feels like the most we have had them actually talking to each other like adults in a long time. Yes, I don’t like the status quo of her being with Paul (does anyone?), but this felt like real conversations between two people that were together for a long time, trying to figure out how to still be friends after a break-up. It wasn’t “Peter, stay away from me”.
(If you *have* to have them broken up, at least let them have honest, grown up conversations like this. Anything is better than what we’ve gotten.)
I’ve never been that interested in Anna Watson as a character. To me she was always May’s best friend and never really had anything to do outside of that relationship (I guess after May “died” they tried to have her fill the May role in Peter and MJ’s marriage – didn’t she at one point think Peter was cheating on MJ because of all his absences?). But I kind of liked her life in the asylum in these two issues (once she was cured), making friends with all of the inmates. Yes, some of these criminals have done terrible things, but Anna only knows them in their current friendly personas. And she seemed more aware of where she was and the type of people she was locked up with than “doddering old” Aunt May would have been, who likely would be convinced that all the inmates were really nice people that were wrongfully imprisoned.
And while it was obvious it was going to happen, I even liked when the criminals returned after escaping to save Anna. They likely didn’t have known that Anna was in any trouble when they decided to come back, so their decision to do this would have been just to not escape because they felt guilty about letting Anna down. Is this believable for people like Whirlwind and the Human Fly? Maybe not, but it worked for me.
I liked William Baker’s attempts to become a good guy. This reminded me of his entire arc decades ago (man I’m old) when he became a good guy for many years.
(Is Anna holding the flowerpot that contains “evil Sandman”? The flower is yellow here, and when she gets home, but the one that explodes into sand is blue.)
I wasn’t that interested in the “Anna goes crazy” story, but at least this issue seemed to wrap it all up, so hopefully we won’t have any more about this.
I even liked the whole fakeout with Sandman at the end. While I prefer the William Baker version, the whole “Flint Marko hides in Anna’s flowerpot and leaves a dummy William Baker back in Ravencroft that eventually dissolves” got me.
WHAT I DIDN’T LIKE
Why are the Sinister Six reforming here?
- Didn’t Mysterio have lots of character development in the Amazing Mary Jane series (and the Kindred storyline) so that going back to this group would feel wrong for him?
- Didn’t “Kraven” have a real breakthrough after the Sinful Spider-Man story that he no longer felt that he has to be his “father”? So why would he join a group that only wants him because he’s filling his “father”s spot?
- Isn’t Doc Ock focused on completely different goals over in the Superior Spider-Man book? Isn’t he actually working *with* Spidey over there? This feels like something a good editor would step in and say “Hey, you two writers can’t both have Doc Ock in your books at the same time doing different things and acting differently.” Sigh.
The Sinister Six’s insistence that they *had* to fill their empty spot with Sandman because he was an original member – where is this coming from? The Sinister Six has had many different incarnations over the years, with many different members. They have never been shy about bringing in new people. But suddenly they say that it *has* to be the original team? Why? (SPOILER: the “Kraven” on this team is not the original team member).
A RECAP OF PREVIOUS ITERATIONS OF THE SINISTER SIX:
-
-
- Original team (Doc Ock, Vulture, Sandman, Kraven, Mysterio, Electro). ASM Annual #1
- Return of the Sinister Six (Kraven is dead so he is replaced with Hobgoblin). ASM #334-339
- Revenge of the Sinister Six (still Hobgoblin, Sandman is a member but is actually a double-agent who leaves the team, so Gog is the final sixth member). Spider-Man #18-23
- Sinister Seven (Doc Ock is dead so Hogboblin forms a team of Electro, Mysterio, Vulture, Shocker, Beetle, Scorpia). Spider-Man: Funeral For An Octopus #1-3
- Another Return of Sinister Six (Sandman forms a team to take on Doc Ock: Mysterio, Vulture, Kraven, Electro, Venom). ASM #12 & PPSM #12
- Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Chameleon, Electro, Rhino, Sandman, Mysterio). ASM #648
- Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Mysterio, Electro, Kraven, Sandman, Lizard). Sinister War #1
- Many other iterations where there are more than 6 members.
-
So the whole idea that the Sinister Six *has* to have the original members is ridiculous. This is just Zells wanting to write a story with the Sinister Six with the original members, even if it makes no sense to do so.
(It feels like Zells really wants to recreate scenes like this one.)
Michele showing up again gave me a “Oh, this person again?” feeling. Some discussion on the Discord before I read this issue made me think that this would be Michele Gonzalez(8) returning, which would have been worse. But who was clamoring for this character to return?(9) Obviously this is setting up something where someone pretended to be Peter to setup a date with her, but her reaction to him seems very over-the-top, and not in a good way:
(If there’s a better arm-wrestling movie out there, let me know.)
Other talk on the Discord (hey, that is where the cool kids are hanging out) is that this was Ben Reilly who called Michele to make this date, which makes sense because of the identical voice. If so, why? This feels like a practical joke that a child would do: “Hey, is your refrigerator running? It is? Well, you better go catch it!” (Ben and Janine hang up the phone and giggle incessantly to each other). If this is Ben, what is his plan here? Just to annoy Peter with practical jokes?
Back when I was invited onto the podcast to review one of the Beyond issues, I said that it wasn’t fair to that issue to use the entire idea of Beyond as a con for that issue. So similarly it’s not fair to say a con of this issue is that Mary Jane is now a superhero with no real powers (just a magic bracelet) called Jackpot. Still, every time she is on the page and Spidey isn’t saying “Stop this! You have no powers! You’re going to get yourself killed!” it is very annoying (seriously – what is to stop a normal criminal from just shooting her with a gun?). Everyone in the book has just accepted that MJ is now a superhero without pointing out the obvious – that this is wrong and she shouldn’t be doing this.
(An average reader’s reaction to learning about MJ as Jackpot.)
While I did enjoy the whole Electro fight, it did feel a bit silly and low-stakes. Spidey tries to web up Electro once, it doesn’t work, so he lets Jackpot try while he just … stands back and does nothing? Jackpot uses tentacles and pink bowling balls? And Electro is defeated by Spidey pushing Hippo so he falls on Electro and crushes him? This feels like it would fit in perfectly in a Superior Foes of Spider-Man issue, but here it just feels so silly that I expected this guy to show up:
How does Whirlwind have his powers in Ravencroft? We see that Sandman has a sonic inhibitor to prevent him from using his powers. It seems very unsafe for an institution that is holding criminals with mental problems not to make sure they can’t use their powers. Maybe all of their powers are kept in check by the security systems, and when Electro fried the power they got turned off, and that’s why he can use his wind powers here? But the issue doesn’t tell us this – just one line of dialogue would have explained that.
Finally, where was Aunt May during these two issues? Or since Anna has been incarcerated? Anna Watson has been her her best friend for years. Suddenly she goes crazy and is incarcerated at Ravencroft. Shouldn’t May be distraught about this? Shouldn’t she be visiting her every day? And when Anna is released, we see her with MJ and Peter – May is nowhere to be found!
(This is what we should have seen – but with May’s and Anna’s roles reversed – as soon as Anna was incarcerated.)
WHAT THIS ISSUE/EVENT MEANT OVERALL
This (apparently) wraps up the whole Aunt Anna storyline – not just her going crazy, but apparently she’s no longer suffering from dementia? So she can fade into the background again. This really feels like Zells wanted to wrap this storyline up quickly, almost like he’s wrapping up his subplots because he knows he only has so many issues left on this book?(10)
Also, this feels like the first issue in a long time where we got actual Peter/MJ interactions where they acted like adults and weren’t yelling at each other. Yes, they’re still broken up, and Paul is still a thing, but this felt like … I want to say progress but that’s not it. Maybe the lack of anti-progress?
GRADE
B
This was a pretty low-stakes issue that had some good stuff and some bad stuff, but the bad stuff wasn’t terrible. And it wrapped up a subplot and set into motion a Sinister Six story that will likely be the focus of the upcoming big 50th issue. What’s that? Issue #50 is about the Green Goblin’s return? Oh, well, never mind.
NEXT TIME, IN AN ALL-NEW ISSUE OF AMAZING SPIDER-MAN …
Because you demanded it, the return of Chasm and Hallow’s Eve! The new IT-couple that everyone is talking about!(11) Mark, you are so lucky!
FOOTNOTES
(1) Krakoan Derangement Syndrome. Marvel ensures us that it’s a real thing.
(2) This is Max Dillon, not Francine Frye. Wait, is that her actual name? “Frye”? And she got electro-based powers? Bravo, Marvel.
(3) Michele doesn’t have a Marvel Wiki page (yet) but LeagueOfComicGeeks.com has a page for her, with her name listed as “Michele (Lawyer)”.
(4) Just assume that for the rest of this review, every time I type “Jackpot” it’s followed by “(ugh)”.
(5) This is a real thing, and apparently very helpful.
(6) According to the Marvel Wiki, the Hippo’s real name is … Mrs. Fluffy Lumpkins (even though he’s a male hippopotamus).
(7) Hey, if a law that we’re told cannot be gotten off the books is suddenly gotten rid of immediately because some citizens protested about it, then I’m sure an asylum can just release an inmate without any due process because they do one good thing.
(8) Both Michele Gonzalez and this Michele are lawyers that were potential love interests for Peter. Can’t Marvel come up with a new love interest that doesn’t have the same first name and occupation as a previous one?
(9) The answer, of course, is Zeb Wells.
(10) Hey, we can dream, can’t we?
(11) Narrator: Nobody actually demanded this. And nobody is talking about this couple.
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@Evan Berry:
A two-parter makes more sense – a 1980s sitcom would not likely have a subplot going on for multiple episodes. Back then most/all sitcoms had very self-contained episodes (except two-parters). But this particular story seems like too much happening to just be a single episode.
Yes, the internet is amazing. Without it I’d be out of a job. Oh wait, is writing these reviews considered a job if I only get paid in Crawlspace Bucks?
@Hornacek — I looked a little deeper this time, and apparently it was just a two-parter. Amidst some clips of the Grease episode, I found the entire thing. Better quality, too:
https://youtu.be/qDwa9MjMzxM?si=9MIPACs4mgNN8nJ1
I’ll have to watch it myself later. The internet is amazing.
@Evan Berry:
Yeah, Arvid not being the first choice for the Seymour role does sound kind of familiar.
According to the Wiki they also did Grease and Hair in other seasons. No memories of either of those.
@Hornacek – If I remember correctly, it was a weeklong story, and the play happened on a Friday as as sort of a big finale. I believe that it was Arvid who was the stage hand, and he surprised the audience by taking over the role of Seymour for someone who couldn’t go on, or else demonstrating earlier that he knew the part and could perform it better or something. One way or another, someone else had the role at first (Eric, I think?), and he ended up with it. As a kid, I remember thinking that Arvid was the “nerdiest” character and, therefore, the best for the part, and I wondered how they would get him into the role without outright calling him a nerd. Well, that’s how they did it. To my knowledge, this was the only musical the class ever performed, so your information from the wiki is news to me. I think LSoH is the only musical I really like anyway, except for maybe Pete’s Dragon.
I do remember the audience laughing when Schneider showed up as the plant, though, as well as my being kind of surprised that it ended on a happy note.
I only wish the video quality were better for you, but at least I found it. Glad you got a chance to watch it!
@Evan Berry:
Thanks, I finally watched this. I know I saw this episode when it aired but have very little memories of this episode, except that (a) it happened, and (b) Schneider played Audrey II when he was originally supposed to be a stagehand (or something behind the scenes – not on stage). The real star of this musical (in the world of the show) is, obviously, Arvid.
It blows my mind that a network half-hour sitcom would spend so much time in a single episode to do so many songs from an established musical. Although most of these songs were truncated, I was surprised how long they went on – I kept waiting for the them to cut to another scene after only a few lines were sung.
Was them putting on this musical a multi-episode arc? It must have been – I can’t imagine them introducing the idea and doing the musical all in one episode. I seem to recall one episode ending with the principal saying that Schneider’s character wouldn’t be in the play, and then they revealed that he was Audrey II (in the full costume) with the “studio audience” erupting in applause.
According to the Wiki, *every* season had the class doing the school musical – I don’t remember any of the others.
@hornacek — You’re welcome.
https://youtu.be/CnxP6O9RaH8?si=LaVzSoyVoeNIy8TN
@Evan Berry:
I was a big Dr. Johnny Fever fan so I watched every episode of HotC, even after Hesessman left and Billy Connelly took over (“Call me Billy.”). Whenever I hear “The Future’s So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades” on the oldies station I remember the episode where the class creates a music video for that song.
As far as the kids in that class speaking without raising their hands, they were the honors class so they were used to being treated special. I think from the pilot the principal warned Hesessman that these kids would eat him alive, and he was able to impress them with the story about how World War I was started by a baseball (man, how do I remember such ridiculous minutiae?)
I even remember between seasons how Schneider lost a lot of weight (gastric-bypass surgery I think) so when the next season started they had him wearing a bulky coat for a bit and then had him remove it show off how thin (or thinner) he looked and wrote in the weight loss for his character.
Yeah, I remember Oz saying that everyone appearing on stage for the play at the end made the audience feel better about everyone having been killed. But in Corman’s film it’s just weird, like a big joke. Seymour’s like “Oops, I died and got everyone killed, and I got everyone else killed too, and now I’m part of this plant – did I do that?” It’s hard to blame test audiences who didn’t know anything about LSoH who rioted when they saw the original ending – “They all die? What the hell kind of ending is that???”
@Hornacek — I guess the world of LSoH had a Clone Saga all its own. You can’t get more Spider-man than that.
@Hornacek — Not only do I remember Head of the Class, but my dad taped that episode on VHS for me. (I was nine at the time.) I remember being confused because the song Just the Gas, sung by Eric, the biker character, somewhat typecast as Orin Scrivello, didn’t appear in the movie.
(Wow, I haven’t seen it since I was a kid, but somehow I remember that. I also remember being confused in general because the kids in that class got to speak out of turn without even raising their hands whenever they wanted, and Dan Schneider’s character got to sit in the corner next to a computer. My class was nothing like that.)
As ridiculous as those reappearing faces are, the play ends that way, too, as I learned later that year when I saw it. When everyone comes onstage for the bow, the plant is in the middle, and there’s a big green sheet behind it with the all the actors’ faces exposed as they sing Don’t Feed the Plants. I guess in that context they’re going for “cute,” but the movie sure doesn’t play that way (no pun intended), as you know.
@Evan Berry:
In that original 1986 ending we see multiple giant plants killing people and terrorizing the city. And since they are all grown from the original Audrey II you could almost consider them “clones”. So in effect, whether it is the Audrey II we’ve seen the entire film or not, it technically *is* Audrey II on the statue at the end.
There was an ABC sitcom in the 1980s called Head of the Class about a teacher (Howard Hessesman – aka Dr. Johnny Fever) teaching a class of advanced high school students. In one episode the class put on a musical of LSoH with Dan Schneider (ooh, topical!) playing the plant. I think that was my first exposure to LSoH – I can’t remember if I had seen the Frank Oz movie in theaters or on VHS later. But that show was when I learned that the Oz movie was based off of a play.
I did see the Corman version many years later, I think the TCM channel shows it every couple of months. I was prepared for it, having read all the Wikipedia info about the Oz film. But still, it’s quite a shock how cheap it is, how bad the acting is (but hey, Dick Miller!), how Nicholson just jumps off the screen, and how short it is (72 minutes). And of course, the ending is ridiculous with all the victims’ faces reappearing.
How to relate this to Spider-Man? There probably has been a Audrey II type demon in Limbo seen. The only one I can think of is the mention in the SM2 PS5 game.
@Hornacek — I might be (probably am) mistaken, but I always assumed the plant on the Statue of Liberty was Audrey II having a final, triumphant laugh. I knew as a child that it was based on a musical, which itself was based on the Roger Corman film, but I’d seen neither one of them when I went to see a live performance when I nine. I enjoyed it, but I was very surprised. On the way there I remember wondering how they could possibly blow the plant up in a stage production.
You’ve probably already seen it, but if you’re interested in watching the Roger Corman film, here’s the link. I believe it’s one of Jack Nicholson’s first roles.
https://youtu.be/0QZCKgVImqg?si=_eew_OBMEXUITK5f
I’m sure there’s a way to relate this to Spider-man, but I can’t think of it right now. Wait, wasn’t there an Audrey-Two-ish demon in Limbo at one point? Not exactly the best storyline to reference, but it’s something.
@Evan Berry:
I agree with your assessment of “Kraven”s change after Sinful ended. I figured “Oh, the Kraven movie is coming up, they want to change ‘Kraven’ to be an anti-hero to fit in with that.”
To quote The Simpsons: “I guess some people never change … or, they quickly change, and then quickly change back.”
Again, if in a later issue we see him turn on TSS and reveal that he never ha any interest in being a villain in this group, then I will give Zells his flowers for remembering and following up on the development he gave this character in Sinful.
I saw the theatrical version of LSoH first and had no idea it was a pre-existing movie/musical with a different ending. It wasn’t until years later that I heard of it, and since I was such a fan of the movie ending, I hated the idea of the original ending. Later I realized that if I had watched the original movie/musical first I likely would have thought the same thing about the theatrical ending.
The original ending is such a weird way to end the movie though. All of the main (human) characters are dead and there is still 5-10 minutes of the movie left, so you just have to watch a bunch of Audrey II clones (not the original Audrey II) destroy various cities and kill human characters we have not seen before. It doesn’t surprise me that test audiences revolted saying “I wanted Seymour and Audrey to get together! Or at least, not be killed.”
@hornacek — At the time of “Kraven’s” character growth and change for the better, I thought it was a calculated move by Marvel to make him more of an anti-hero in line with the upcoming Kraven movie, so changing him back to a villain makes even less sense — but then, maybe I was wrong about that. If that was the case, I guess we can expect him to change back again before too long, or rather, for the writer/editor to forget that this arc even happened.
I saw the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors when I was 25, and, I’ll admit, it still gave me nightmares, probably because it clashed so heavily with such a large part of my childhood. It was all because of that last shot of Audrey II on the Statue of Liberty, combined with the perfect musical cue. My seven-year-old self would think I’m a wuss, I’m sure!
@Aqu@:
I don’t know, “Kraven” seemed to have a real breakthrough in #35. “I’m grateful, Spider. I’m thankful for you. You put me in a grave. With my father’s gun. And I did not follow him.” He is literally here – with Norman – fighting Spidey – to save him from these sins. And after Spidey is saved, “Kraven” says (about the Spear of Destiny) “Neither it nor I will bother you again. You are free, Osborn.” These are not the words of someone who is going to go back to typical comic book villainy. This sounds like someone who has gone through some therapy and is a changed man.
While there have been iterations of TSS that have worked well as a team, their biggest enemy has always been themselves, their individual egos, and inability to work together. For example, in the first PS4 game, while Electro and Vulture did work well together, Rhino and Scorpion did not, and they basically helped Spider-Man defeat them.
I am skimming, but not reading, Superior SM, but I think (?) Ock there knows Peter’s identity again. So does he know it here? If so, has he told the other members? Why not just attack him when he’s Peter?
Ah, I forgot: I was the first to notice Electro’s female traits on the cover, in a comment on the previous review. *pout*
Also, something went wrong with my last comment, only the word “muscle” should have been in bold. (let’s see if it happens again, with the word “I” or if I just did a mistake)
Using electricity to stimulate muscles is nothing new in fiction and I honestly don’t find it as unbelievable as other “scientific” explanations in comics; have you ever heard of galvanism and Galvani’s experiments?
On the other hand, Magneto’s use of magnetism on blood’s iron to control people is… well, the human body just doesn’t work like that.
@Mark: as far as I know, there’s no way the use of electricity can alter muscle’s mass during muscle contraction, while it may (in theory) have an effect on the contraction of muscles fibers, resulting in more strength than normally possible. The increase in mass muscle by electromyostimulation isn’t instantaneous, it’s an effect seen in time; it just influences the muscular tissue’s growth.
@Hornacek
I think you’re giving too much value to Kraven’s experience: what he meant by “I’m not my father” is that he didn’t succumb to suicidal thoughts as his “father” and “grandmother” did. So he feels he has overcome his family’s mental issues and is, as such, a better man. For the rest, he is still the same Kraven. Basically, Wells purged him of the ’90s brooding, making sure this one iteration won’t commit suicide ever and is here to stay.
That said, I agree it makes no sense for the original Sinister Six to reunite today. Hell, it doesn’t even make sense for them to be so attached to the team, as they were always bickering.
Also, doesn’t Doc Ock know of Peter’s identity from the current Superior Spider-man? (I only read the previews)
@Bob Palmer:
Thanks for reading the reviews. I also stopped reading the book when ASM was replaced with Superior SM, but I read the reviews here (and listened to the podcast) to keep up.
“wasn’t the Human Fly killed by Scourge waaaay back in the 80s?”
I think I asked this same question on the Discord after he was seen in the previous issue. I remember Scourge killing off many C/D-list villains, including the Human Fly – from what I remember, I think he was literally eating garbage when Scourge killed him. The response I got was “he got better”.
According to the Marvel Wiki page for THF, “Years later, he was resurrected by The Hood (along with many supervillains killed by the Scourge) using the powers of Dormammu in Robbins’ plan to kill Punisher.” This seems a waste to undo Scourge’s work.
I stopped reading ASM with this newest iteration. It’s that bad. I do follow the reviews, however, so I can stay up on the storylines such as they are. I do have a question that I didn’t see asked, though…wasn’t the Human Fly killed by Scourge waaaay back in the 80s?
@Geiseric:
That would require a writer who doesn’t introduce a supporting character and then not have them appear for a dozen issues.
I remember the old days where Tom DeFalco would have multiple subplots going on at once, with supporting characters appearing in almost every issue. You always knew who they were and what was going on with them. Someone like DeFalco would never introduced a new supporting character and then not have them appear until a dozen or so issues later and expect the readers to remember them and care about them.
If after Zells introduced Michele she had regular appearances in the book, just enough so we’d remember who she is and be interested in the character, then her appearance here might mean something. I’m sure most readers were like “Michele who?”
This is where an editor’s box reminding us of who Michele is and when we last saw her really would have helped.
Realistically because she was a girl and single so she was seen as a love interest.
They could have also done a we hate each other at first but now we like each other after getting to know each other
Thankfully we aren’t doing that
@Geiseric:
“I think Michelle served two purposes. One as a bait for a new love interest to trick people when it’s going to be back to MJ” How did Michele’s first appearance, or this one, make anyone think she could be a new love interest? She and Peter have no chemistry, they have beliefs that are diametrically opposed, and while she was a victim in this appearance she comes off as rude and obnoxious.
A much easier way to get MJ and Peter to talk about dating here would be for them to meet without Michele appearing and have MJ ask “So … are you seeing anyone?”
I think Michelle served two purposes. One as a bait for a new love interest to trick people when it’s going to be back to MJ
Also a way for MJ and Peter to talk about dating
Which they could just do on their own but whatever
As Wells did say these issues would have romance
@Evan Berry:
“Isn’t MJ in the MCU Spider-man movies named Michelle, too?” She is – good catch.
The story for the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors goes that they showed the film to executives and test audiences – everyone loved the film, but hated the ending. “Why do Audrey and Seymour have to die?” everyone asked. The filmmakers said it worked for a play because after it’s over, the entire cast comes back on stage for the final bow, so the audience thinks “Well, all those characters died, but they’re not really dead, here they are getting a round of applause.”
I’ve watched a few reaction videos for LSoH on YouTube, and sometimes they get the original ending and they’re not prepared for it. The comments are always great because you’ll always get a few people who didn’t know about the original ending and had only seen the theatrical version and this blew their mind. #DontFeedThePlants
I understand that it’s comics, and sometimes character growth doesn’t stick, or people change back to how they used to be. But at least give a reason for it. As much as I hated Sandman being turned evil again back in the 90s (?), at least they gave a reason for why it happened. Here we have “Kraven” being buried alive, getting out, and thanking Spidey for doing it because it allowed him to work through some “I don’t have to be my father” issues. When that story was done I thought “Ok, I’m actually interested in seeing ‘Kraven’ again because after this he shouldn’t be the same villain again.” But here we are, with him joining the Sinister Six when his breakthrough should tell him “the only reason they want you is because they want your ‘father'” and that alone should make him refuse the offer.
Yes, I finally figured out how to create anchors for the footnotes and links to them.
@Geiseric:
Yeah, this 2-issue story has a big “let’s wrap up this dangling subplot” feel. It almost feels like a new writer came onto the title and was told “Oh, by the way, Anna Watson is still crazy and locked up in Ravencroft” and the new writer said “Ok, I’ll get that fixed right away so I can get on with other stories.”
“Also Michelle story seems to be over I guess?” I wouldn’t even say that Michele had a “story”. She and Peter had one dinner (I wouldn’t even call it a date) where they realized their personalities and beliefs were completely opposite. Was anyone wondering about her and hoping she would return? If you really wanted to show that someone was playing practical jokes on Peter (or just pretending to be him) then there are better ways to do it instead of using a character that most readers had forgotten about and didn’t care about.
Isn’t MJ in the MCU Spider-man movies named Michelle, too? Yes, it’s spelled differently, but you may be onto something about Marvel needing new ideas. I hope she doesn’t become a lawyer.
Yay! We can start quoting Little Shop of Horrors now! (I, too, thought your number-one evil plant was Audrey II.) “Here, take my Kleenex! Wipe that lipstick away.” Also, don’t worry, I’m joking about the Little Shop of Horrors quotes. It’s more fun when Mark hasn’t seen the movie. (Incidentally, that original ending — released “secretly” on the original DVD and present on the Blu-ray — is what I was hoping for as a kid when I saw it in the theatre, but I know that if I had gotten that ending instead , I would have had nightmares for months, just like with Return to Oz and Superman III.)
I really appreciate your always bringing up inconsistencies in terms of character development that is forgotten, apparently just to tell a particular story. Kraven and Mysterio underwent all that growth just to return to where they were initially. I know that’s the nature of comics: characters usually end up returning to their initial roles eventually, but it’s so much better when it’s done organically and, if it doesn’t make “real-world” sense, at least acknowledges (even with one line of text!) their history. To me, character growth is what makes a story good anyway, so to get rid of it just to tell a “good” story is frustrating.
By the way, the links to the endnotes worked great!
Yes this issue seems to be the start of a Peter MJ reconciliation.
Based on solcits and the plots going forward it seems Wells run is nearing its end. We have the GG story to wrap up Normans arc, we have a tombstone story that will end that storyline and the MJ story seems to be wrapping up
Also Michelle story seems to be over I guess?
@Michael:
I agree that Ben being Michele’s caller does make no sense, but why start making sense now?
They could say that Ben has been stalking Peter for weeks now and somehow found out about his “date” with Michele.
The Living Brain being behind it is interesting, and would explain why it appeared last issue with no follow up at all this issue. Again, no idea why it would do this to Peter.
I know nothing about Whirlwind other than he exists. Didn’t know who his powers work. You’d think someone who’s been drawing Marvel comics for decades would have drawn him at one point and would know how to draw him using his powers.
Great, why bother having the Green Goblin be his own story and the Sinister Six be their own story? Let’s just combine the two of them together! At this point it feels like #52 is Zells’ last issue and he’s *really* cramming all these plots in to get them in here before he leaves.
Ben being Michele’s caller makes no sense. How would Ben know about Michele? How would Ben get Michele’s phone number? She’s a mob consigliere . The problem is that the only person who knew about Michele was Felicia and she had neither the ability to fake Peter’s voice nor the motive to set Peter up with Michele.
One theory I’ve heard is that it’s the Living Brain. We saw the idiot bring electronics near it last issue. The last time Peter fought it, it was able to get ahold of an Adaptoid, which can mimic voices. And it could have found out about Michele through some sort of hacking.
One thing to note about Whirlwind- he doesn’t actually have wind control powers like Storm. He has the ability to create winds by spinning his body or his arms around. But he didn’t seem to be spinning when he attacked Electro. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen an artist make this mistake. But it’s pretty jarring here.
According to the solicits, the Sinister Six are appearing in issue 51, the second part of the Goblin return storyline. So the Sinister Six and Goblin plots will intersect- we just don’t know how.
@Dark Mark:
1. The body definitely looks like Max Dillon. That is not a woman’s body. And yet the face, even though it’s covered – looks like a woman’s face. It’s weird.
2. I just love that those Quora questions had some actual attempted answers using science until someone finally said “It’s comic books, that’s why.”
4. Suddenly Seymour … is standing beside you …
I also enjoyed the Audrey II shoutout in the SM2 PS5 game.
5. Given how “Kraven” went through that entire “buried alive therapy” barely a few months ago, it seems wildly out of character for him to be interested in this at all. You’d think Sinful SM was written by a different writer. Of course, if it turns out “Kraven” does feel this way and reveals that he’s here for other reasons, then I’ll give kudos to Zells for that.
6. Remake this film classic, you studio cowards!
7. And you can’t even say that May is unaware of what happened to Anna, since it was May herself that Anna tried to kill at her birthday party by throwing her towards a bunch of upright knives in an open dishwasher. So she would be aware that Anna had gone crazy and been incarcerated.
8. Considering that previous conversations between Peter and MJ have mostly been about how Peter cannot let MJ go and how she talked down to him, I agree that this issue was progress. This could have been any couple on a long-running sitcom/drama that had just broken up and were legitimately figuring out how to talk to each other now that they weren’t together anymore.
9. Haha! (grabs issue and runs away into the night)
“It is probably the best Aunt Anna centric issue of Amazing Spider-Man ever.” I’d say the episode of the 90s show where she accidentally hires the Punisher to kill Spider-Man is better, but technically that’s an episode, not an issue.
Awesome Review! Here are a few comments in order of the review:
1. Yes, it completely looks like Francine. I wonder if JRjr was just told Electro is in this issue, but not which one when making the cover.
2. I am so happy to see your tangential digression on electricity and muscle strength. I too went down the rabbit hole (but not too far) and found this from the National Institutes of Health – Electromyostimulation can indeed increase muscle mass by 1% and improve muscle function 10-15%. That’s with a normal person. If we take that as a basis and we can assume that Electro can take much more electricity than your typical hospital patient trying to get his leg back in working condition after being a cast, then let’s say he can increase his muscle mass by, oh let’s say 50%. That would mean improved muscle function at 500-750%. Max doesn’t strike me as the working out kind, so let’s say he can lift around 150 pounds. That would mean he would have the strength to lift 1125 pounds (which is about 510 kilograms to you Canucks). Interesting way to spin his power, but seeing how the webbing is strong enough to hold Spider-Man, who can lift 10 tons, I think we are still, scientifically speaking, out of his ability.
3. I love using Hippo to beat Electro. Right up my alley! I also love the villains rallying to save Anna.
4. I am assuming the most evil plant you’ve ever seen was Audrey II.
5. All excellent points about the reforming of the Sinister Six and how Lowe didn’t do his due diligence here.
6. This, strangely, is the second _Over the Top_ reference I’ve heard this week.
7. Yes! WHERE IS MAY? Maybe we will find out that the sins of Norman Osborn really went into HER and she is now plotting her next move as the Green Oldie (you know, instead of the Golden Oldie she was when she was Galactus’s herald? Anyone? Just me? Ok…)
8. I do believe it is progress. I don’t like the position MJ and Peter are in now, but they are working together and not sniping at each other. And the only reason they will not continue to work together is MJ enjoys it, so it is laying groundwork. Also, this will explain why she is not in the book in the next several issues, probably.
9. Chasm’s next? *checks schedule* Ah crap! I would have preferred this issue.
B+ for me! It was an enjoyable read! It is probably the best Aunt Anna centric issue of Amazing Spider-Man ever.
8.