Amazing Spider-Man #32 (Legacy #926): “Spear of Destiny”(1), or “How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love the Sins”
(The reason this review was delayed was due to me not being able to get the comic away from Puddin’.)
It’s the start of the second year/volume of Zells’ run. Wait, is that right? Well, last issue seemed to indicate that it was, with a bunch of mini-stories that introduced new arcs that will be followed-up on in the next few months. Does this issue ignore all the bad stuff from the Zells run up until now? Or is it more of the same? Let’s see!
(It looks like “Kraven” has whiskers. And Queen Goblin seems to be going after someone off panel instead of Spidey.)
CREDITS
Writer: Zeb Wells
Artist: Patrick Gleason
Colorists: Marcio Menyz
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramagna
Variant Cover Artists: TOO MANY TO LIST HERE
This issue does a nice tribute to the recent passing of John Romita Sr. The cover has a mini-version of Romita’s ASM #50 in the corner box, and 4 pages inside with great Romita covers and art, and some words from various Marvel people. It’s nice.
(This really took me back. It probably wasn’t used that often, but I feel like I would see this in every other ASM annual growing up.)
PREVIOUSLY IN AMAZING SPIDER-MAN …
In ASM #925, Randy and Janice’s wedding was stopped by mob shenanigans courtesy of Shotgun (no sign of his partner, Bullet(2)). Also, Hammerhead killed Madam Masque(3). And there were a bunch of backups, every one of which was worth all the extra money Marvel charged you for them.
In ASM Annual #1, Hallows’ Eve tried to break Ben (aka Chasm) out of his Limbo-jail. Aunt Anna went crazy from Krakoan drugs and tried to attack everyone.
SUMMARY
We start with a weird couple of pages where “Kraven”(4) performs some mystical ritual where he travels to the “deepest part” of Queen Goblin (his new girlfriend).
(For some reason this panel reminded of the 2007 horror-comedy “Teeth”. If you haven’t seen it, consider yourself lucky.)
“Kraven” removes Norman Osborn’s sins from Queen Goblin and puts them into a spear. He says that she is free now, but she says she doesn’t feel free, and that she should send the sins back to their home (i.e. Norman Osborn).
(“Phew! Was it good for you too?”)
Meanwhile Peter is checking up on Norman, who’s working late in the lab on Chekov’s Electric-Plasma Engine. He’s interrupted by a call from Felicia who’s checking in on him since it’s been a couple of weeks since their breakup and she assumed he would be miserable. But he is on his way to meet Michele(5), Janice’s friend (from the bachelorette party) to “compare notes” since Randy and Janice haven’t talked since the wedding and they both want to help them sort things out. Felicia calls it a date because Michele is “hot”.
(Michele *is* attractive, but enough for Felicia to call her “hot”? What has my life come to that I am debating the attractiveness of women in comic books?)
Peter arrives late for his non-date with Michele. He suggests that Janice reach out to Randy first since it’s her family that caused a shooting at the wedding, but Michele doesn’t like that Randy ran away from the wedding and didn’t stop to ask what hospital Tombstone was being taken to (yes, this should have been Randy’s number one priority here – is Michele supposed to be a good lawyer?)
Peter tries to describe to Michele what kind of man Janice’s dad is, but she already knows because she’s his lawyer.(6) Peter forgets that everyone is entitled to a legal defense and can’t believe that even a villain like Tombstone should have a lawyer. The non-date does not end well.
“Kraven” thinks about his “father”(7) and wonders why he keeps his casket (a good question). Queen Goblin says that “Kraven”s father (meaning the original Kraven) was selfish and that he can prove himself better by not hunting the Spider but his enemy. She says “his prey was weak. A pathetic rat.” – ignoring how every time the original Kraven fought Spider-Man, he lost. She tells him that he will prove himself superior(8) by defeating the Spider’s greatest foe (sorry, Doc Ock), revealing the costume (and satchel) of the Green Goblin in the coffin. Queen Goblin says that “Kraven” must first restore Norman’s sins, then kill him, freeing both her and him.
(This isn’t creepy at all. Also, is this supposed to be the actual Goblin suit? How did “Kraven” get this?)
Peter shows up at Oscorp where Norman is working late. They have yet another heart to heart, and once again Norman says that Peter is only at Oscorp to make sure he doesn’t turn evil again (is it just me or does it feel like they have had this same conversation every other issue?). Peter says that Norman treated him like a son when they first met (causing me to fall out of my figurative chair).
Because it’s a day ending in “y”, someone breaks into Oscorp and the lights go out.
(Norman’s head of security at Oscorp in charge of preventing people from breaking in.)
Norman goes to get his Gold Goblin suit but “Kraven” is already there, having pinned it to the wall with spears underneath at least 30 candles.
(So “Kraven” broke in, impaled each individual piece of the suit to the wall, set up every candle, lit all of them, and only then turned the lights out? How many hours did this take?)
“Kraven” tells Norman that he has “betrayed his glory” with the Gold Goblin suit, presents the magic spear, and says that he’s here to make him whole. Spidey arrives and sees “Kraven” with the spear and somehow realizes what it is (How???), but Norman shuts and locks the door to keep Spidey out.
“Kraven” assumes that Norman has accepted his fate, but Norman fights back and punches him. Norman still has the Goblin formula in him so this one punch with his super-strength should have ended the battle here, but somehow “Kraven” overpowers Norman and, holding Norman’s body over his head, is about to impale him on the spear.
Spidey breaks in, thanks to the Plasma-Engine Project Norman was working on (wow, it’s a good thing this device was mentioned earlier!).
(I like Gleason’s art but this panel looks weird.)
Spidey can’t see anything because of the extinguishers but blindly throws himself forward to save Norman. And even though he has defeated villains many times while in a fog or the dark, instead of leaping towards “Kraven” to knock him down, he blindly throws himself to place himself between “Kraven” and Norman.
“Kraven” now has the spear in his hands and is about to stab Norman with it (when just seconds ago he was holding Norman and going to drop him onto the spear, which was pointing up from the floor). And in a twist nobody saw coming, “Kraven” accidentally stabs Spidey with the magic spear (cue the Curb Your Enthusiasm music).
We get a couple of pages where Spidey is overwhelmed with “the sins” and rips his mask off. “Kraven” realizes that this was not his intended result and things have gone horribly wrong.
(Accurate depiction of “Kraven” in this moment.)
“Kraven” runs away, leaving Norman to see an unmasked and demonic looking Spider-Man laughing maniacally.
(Ruh-roh!)
TO BE CONTINUED!
(I have no idea what to say about this. It doesn’t even deserve to be resized so you can read it clearly.)
INITIAL RESPONSE
This issue reminded me a lot of the first issue of the recent Doc Ock story I reviewed a few weeks ago. It’s the first part of a new story, with a lot of things being set up. It does a good job of introducing the important parts of what we’ll need to know, and it’s an interesting cliff-hanger, but there are a lot of things here I really don’t like.
WHAT I LIKED
The art is great. Everyone looks great, but especially “Kraven”. I don’t like this “Kraven” as a character but I really like how Gleason draws him.
(That is one hell of a moustache.)
I like some of the Peter/Norman interactions here. I don’t like how we got to having Norman as a good guy, but I have to admit that I am enjoying some of their interactions.
I liked Peter following up on Randy’s wedding and trying to help him. Zells has finally remembered that Randy is supposed to be Peter’s best (?) friend, and it makes sense that he would try to fix this problem.
I did LOL at “Kraven” realizing how much of a mistake he has made by transferring Norman’s sins to Spider-Man, and just running away. What was his plan here if he had successfully stabbed Norman? Did he think killing a re-Goblinified Norman would be easy, but taking on a Spider-Man with Norman’s sins is out of his league?
The idea of Spidey turning evil because of Norman’s sins is … different? I’m getting a “Scarlet Spider infected with the Carnage symbiote in the 90s Clone Saga” vibe from this. We all know this is just temporary, so at this point I want to see what they do with it before passing judgement.
(The Sinful Spider-Man laughing maniacally.)
WHAT I DIDN’T LIKE
I don’t like (or get) the “Kraven”/Queen Goblin pairing. They’re both clones, so it would make sense if they made their relationship about that. I’d probably like this “Kraven” more if he thought more about how he’s a clone and trying to live up to the original “Kraven”. Him and QG could bond over how they’re both clones of people that are dead. Otherwise I have no idea why they’re together.
At time it feels like Marvel wants us to believe that this “Kraven” is the original Kraven, and other times it wants us to think he is another one of Kraven’s sons. It’s like if they call him “Kraven” enough times and nobody else in the book mentions it, we will all forget that this isn’t the real Kraven. He talks about his “father”, and I can’t tell if Zells means that “Kraven” thinks of the original Kraven as his father (i.e. Jango and Boba Fett), or if they’re still trying to fool us into thinking this is the real Kraven and this is a reference to Kraven talking about this father in Fearful Symmetry(9).
I liked Michele in the wedding issue (despite her name spelling) but I should have realized that Zells was just introducing his next love interest for Peter. Oh look, it’s a meet-cute that turns into a “they don’t agree on anything”, I wonder what will happen here? Sigh.
And Peter’s rant about how criminals like Tombstone shouldn’t have a lawyer makes no sense. Peter, one of your best superhero friends is a lawyer in his day job who often represents criminals. And at one time you yourself were on trial for murder and you had the right to a lawyer.
But the biggest problem for me with this issue is the entire idea of Norman’s sins being a tangible thing. I have never liked the idea they can be taken away from him and transferred to an object or another person, and this changes Norman’s personality to be a good person. I can accept a lot of things in comic books, but to me this just comes off as ridiculous. That’s not the fault of this issue, but it’s a huge part of this story.
Like I said in the previous section, I kind of like some of the Peter/Norman interactions we’ve had since he became good. We all know this isn’t going to last (and yet we all said the same thing about Jonah knowing Peter was Spider-Man, and it’s years later and he still knows). But unfortunately, it seems like every time we have these scenes , Zells has to add some dialogue that ruins it.
Case in point:
(Can you write for ASM if all your knowledge of Spidey’s history comes from the Raimi movies?)
This is proof that Zells is not getting his Spider-Man history from the comics and is instead thinking of the movies and cartoons. Let me check my Marvel Masterworks …
(“When Peter Met Norman …”)
Peter did not meet Norman until ASM #39 when the Green Goblin unmasked in front of him (Spidey interacted with him in ASM #37 but no introductions were made). And even after that – when Norman forgot he was the Goblin until his “death” – he was mostly dealing with Harry or regressing to the Goblin – he was never interacting with Peter and treating him like a son. The first time there was any mention of a “father/son” relationship was the ASM#25/PPSM#25 story where Norman tried to brainwash him into being his heir. Having Peter say that Norman treated Peter like a son when they first met is dumb and just terrible continuity.
WHAT THIS ISSUE MEANT OVERALL
It’s the start of a new story arc where Spidey will not only have to deal with “Kraven” and Queen Goblin, but it’s also the start of The Sinful Spider-Man. Will Spidey be completely evil? Will he try to fight his sinful urges? Will he start tossing women off of bridges?(10) Or will he just be a more aggressive Spider-Man? I’m kind of interested to see what happens next.
It’s also the start of a Peter/Michele “will they or won’t they” relationship. Let’s hope this is over sooner than Peter and Felicia’s recent relationship. Oh wait, now I want to see Peter – full of Norman’s sins – interact with Michele again (Maniacal laugh!).
GRADE
C-.
The ending has me interested to see what happens next, but there are too many things I really didn’t like: the whole idea of Norman’s sins, the random pairing of “Kraven” and Queen Goblin, Marvel still trying to make us think this “Kraven” is the original Kraven (or his son), and “The one who treated me like a son” – they all drag this grade down for me.
NEXT TIME, IN AN ALL-NEW ISSUE OF AMAZING SPIDER-MAN …
The Sinful Spider-Man hunts “Kraven”, apparently in his black and white suit, based on the preview. Because we can’t have a “Kraven” story post-Fearful Symmetry that doesn’t reference it somehow.
FOOTNOTES
(1) Anyone else remember the Wolfenstein Spear of Destiny game? Just me? Ok.
(2) I didn’t make this up. Shotgun’s partner was literally named Bullet.
(3) I’m sure Madam Masque is really dead, this run has never killed off a character before and then immediately brought them back.
(4) Get used to this spelling of his name. Marvel will never gaslight me into thinking that this is the real Kraven.
(5) Never trust any Michelle who spells their name with one L.
(6) Are many lawyers BFFs with their client’s children? Or take on a client who is their best friend’s father?
(7) If Marvel wants us to believe this is the real Kraven then “father” means Kraven’s father he talks about in Fearful Symmetry (Zells is really going for a JMD vibe with these “Kraven” scenes). But if they want us to believe this is Kraven’s son then “father” means the original Kraven. Both are wrong.
(8) She doesn’t actually say “superior” but she might as well have.
(9) That’s what my trade paperback calls it. Never forget.
(10)
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@Evan
You’re welcome.
@hornacek — That’s right — I forgot about that little bit of dialogue. I know that Peter admired Norman’s “really brilliant” work on nanotechnology, as well, but I think that as far as any kind of relationship between the two of them went.
I’m sort of embarrassed how long it’s been since I’ve seen that movie, but I’ve certainly watched it many, many times.
Thank you!
@Evan
At the beginning of the film Harry tells Peter that Norman really likes Peter and wants to adopt him (or something like that) so we can assume Norman has heard a lot about Peter from Harry and is impressed by him. I think (?) they don’t actually meet until their first scene in the movie but they both already know a lot about each other.
You know, even within the Raimi film itself, I always wondered why Norman tells Peter “I’m like a father to you. Be a son to me now.” I mean, I know why he says it — to gain an edge in the fight — but that was all on Norman’s side. He admired Peter for wanting to “make it under [his] own steam.” But there was never a moment where Peter viewed Norman like a father figure, that I can recall.
At most, it’s just a couple of lines that I guess we, as viewers, are meant to just accept, I suppose.
@Michael
In ASM #3 Otto is not evil before his accident but he’s not doing good deeds and beloved by his fellow scientists, who call him “Doctor Octopus” behind his back. And he thinks about making radiation his servant – not something a good person who wants to help others would think.
SM Unlimited #3 (Obituary for an Octopus) picks up on this by giving his full origin, and how he was so angry at his mother ruining his chance at romance that he was rude and angry with everyone.
Again, he was not evil pre-accident, but he was not the good person who wanted to help the world that SM2, other cartoons, and the PS4 game describe.
@edgelesspigeon
Yeah, we have had more than a few issues where we have seen flashbacks of Norman’s earlier life, and he was not a good person then. And I’m pretty sure most/all of those flashback issues are Norman’s own words/recollections. Did Norman make the deal with Mephisto when he was 5?
Yeah, I remember one of the Flashback (-1) issues was about Richard and Mary Parker on a spy mission where they met Logan, but I wasn’t sure if one of the other Spidey books did a -1 issue with young Peter meeting younger Norman, but that sounds about right.
Reminds me of the older Simpsons episode where Homer does something dumb to Mr. Burns who asks Smithers “What was that man’s name?” and Smithers replies “That’s Homer Simpson, sir.” and Burns says “Simpson, huh? I’ll remember that name.” And of course he doesn’t.
So why would Norman remember meeting this random teenager? It’s not like he has any connection to Harry, who he won’t meet until years later when they both go to ESU. I bet Norman forgot all about meeting Peter the day after those -1 events happened.
@Hornacek- In Amazing Spider-Man 3, there’s no indication that Ock is a bad person before the explosion. The doctors say ” The X-rays show an uncertain amount of brain damage! I’m afraid his mind has been permanently damaged!” The implication is that Ock’s psychosis was caused by the brain damage. It was Spider-Man Unlimited 3, by DeFalco, which suggested that Ock was a bad person before the accident. (Although Fingeroth was building on an earlier line of dialogue in Web of Spider-Man 4 where Ock’s psychiatrist suggests that Ock’s pathology isn’t organic but has roots in his childhood.)
@Hornacek
Oh, yeah, there was that very brief interaction Peter and Norman in “Peter Parker: Spider-Man” -1, but it was for like, less than a minute.
I willing to let this early meeting slide because there’s no reason to expect Pete or Norman to remember a guy they spoke to for half a minute three years later. I wouldn’t remember a conversation like this three year laters. And seeing as this took place BEFORE Peter was bitten by the spider and Uncle Ben died, and before Norman became the Green Goblin, I think it’d be even less likely for them to remember given all the stuff that happened in the intervening time.
Another thing that bothers me about this issue is Peter’s “I’m beginning to think that might be the real you.” Now, I’m not saying Norman was born or predestined to be a monster but a combination of the choices he made, a predisposition to antisocial behavior (he killed his dog when he was a child!), and his toxic upbringing made him a bad man well before he donned his green-and-purple costume. I think Peter once referred to him, though I don’t know where, as “a bad man turned worse” after the Goblin formula. The formula only exacerbated his evil and mental instability, it didn’t create it. Norman himself said this in the PREVIOUS STORY ARC to Doc Ock! Is Wells not even paying attention to his own past issues?
@Aqu
Yeah, I was thinking when I was writing this review that there was probably some flashback issue (like the literal -1 Flashback issues Marvel did years ago) where young “Petey” met a pre-Goblin Norman who took an interest in him. But I kept thinking “No, that’s young Petey meeting Doctor Octavius at science camp in the 90s cartoon”.
And even if there was a flashback showing this interaction, that doesn’t fit in with what we saw in ASM #39 – Peter recognizes the unmasked Goblin from “that hair, those facial features” and realizes it’s Harry’s father.
And earlier in #39, when the Goblin gasses Spidey and then watches him unmask later, he doesn’t recognize Peter until he follows him to the Bugle where he overhears his name being said by someone else. “Peter Parker” is a stranger to Norman at this point.
If another writer did write a flashback story where young Peter and Norman met and knew each other, that doesn’t fit with established continuity.
I butt in the conversation only to say that I bet there is a retconning story out there showing the two had father-son exchanges before.
And no, I’m not willing to waste my time looking for what would be an excuse for the umpteenth continuity overlooking.
@edgelesspigeon
You’d think that with all of the Kraven stories, we’d have at least one time where he was in the middle of a long prolonged fight where his jungle-potion-enduced strength would start to wear out due to how long the fight had been going on. We’ve definitely seen Spidey run out of webfluid in the middle of a fight.
The “Norman treated Peter like a son when they first met” is either Zells thinking the Raimi films are the comicbook continuity, or trying to blend the movies with the comics. The stories you mentioned are the first times the hint of a father/son or mentor/mentee relationship is ever mentioned, and those are long after Norman’s death and return.
It’s like how since SM2 every introduction of Doc Ock in a new medium has him being a good person who gets turned evil by the tentacles, when if you look back at ASM #3, he was always a bad person. Before the accident nobody liked him and he was all about himself, not helping others.
I probably could have found that ASM #39 panel online but I was glad to have the Masterworks volume on my bookshelf I could pull out and confirm “yes, this is the first time Peter sees/meets Norman”. Spidey is in the same room with him in the Robot Master story in ASM #37, but they don’t actually meet or talk to each other.
Yeah, the whole Peter-Norman father/son thing really doesn’t work for the Earth-616 continuity. There’s occasional elements of it, such as in “The Revenge of the Green Goblin” (RotGG #1-3, ASM Vol 2 #25, and PP:SM #25), “A Death in the Family” (PP:SM #44-47), and MKSM #1-12, which JR talks about in his “Green with Evil” and “Spider-Man: Shush” articles. But as a whole that’s just not the fundamental nature of their relationship, and the irony is that the father-son dynamics subtext started AFTER both were mortal enemies.
And any attempt to say there were interactions between Peter and Norman prior to ASM #39 (as opposed to Spidey and the Goblin, of course), would fall flat on its face. The panel from #39 in the review makes it clear that Peter doesn’t know Norman personally and only realizes who he is based on familial resemblance and his name.
@Hornacek
Yes, you’re correct that he needs to take potion regularly to maintain its effects, though how regularly was never established. Once a month? Every few months? Every few weeks?
As for why we’ve never seen him losing his strength in the middle of the fight, well, the Doylist explanation is that the potion isn’t mean to be a potential weakness of Kraven’s, just a justification for his powers and for why somebody born before the Russian Revolution looks like he’s middle-aged at most. The Watsonian rationale is probably that a master hunter like Kraven, with his meticulous planning, wouldn’t start a hunt when the effects of potion are about to wear off.
@edgelesspigeon
Even when it showed Kraven fighting animals, I always took that to be that he had above-average strength, not super-human strength.
The way Kraven mentioned the potions he’d taken over the years to make him a better hunter or prolong his lifespan, it sounded like they were things he had to take regularly, not just one potion he took that would last him forever. I just wonder why we never had a Kraven fight where his strength disappeared in the middle of the battle and he said “Oh no, my mystical jungle potions are wearing off!”
@Hornacek
I mean, as Michael said, he’s able to stop an elephant with a punch. And his first appearance in ASM #15 shows him fighting and beating two gorillas. He’s also, over various appearances, punched through a wall, demolished a chimney with a punch, ripped a streetlight out of the ground, shattered concrete, and tackled an enemy with enough force to snap a thick tree in half.
As for the potion, it’s not clear how regularly he needs to imbibe, or how long the effects last. The potion is also responsible not only for this enhanced abilities, but extending his lifespan and keeping him young (which he shared with his half-brother the Chameleon).
@Sthenurus
I’m curious if they’ll print any letters in a few issues about people pointing this out, and how Lowe will try to rationalize that Zells was right by saying there were plenty of Peter/Norman interactions before they met in ASM #39 that we never saw, so this wasn’t a mistake. The whole thing just reeks of either Zells now knowing his history, or knowing but not caring and assuming the readers will just think the Raimi continuity is what matters.
I admit I am interested in what happens for the Sinful Spider-Man. Is he full-blown evil and just running around killing people indiscriminately? Or is it more like when Ben had the Carnage symbiote and he had this internal struggle to try to lead a normal life but the symbiote kept telling him to kill people? I’d love for Zells to pleasantly surprise me here, but what am I basing this on – the quality of Zells’ stories so far in this run? Oof.
@edgelesspigeon
I don’t know, I’ve always felt that Kraven is something who only has above-average strength because of jungle potions he drinks, but that he’s not in the league of people with legitimate strength. Have we ever seen a Kraven story where his strength starts to fade during a battle, since I assume the jungle potions he takes are not permanent? Kind of like Spidey running out of webfluid in the middle of a fight.
And yes, Spidey can be hurt by people with “peak human” strength, or even super-strength less strong than him, but I’ve always thought Kraven has to rely on tricks, traps, animals, etc to place himself on an even-level with Spidey. There’s a reason in the first part of Fearful Symmetry that when he’s captured by Kraven he’s not worried at all.
Yeah, Spidey is well known for pulling his punches when he hits people that aren’t invulnerable or wearing armor, etc. Despite his advanced strength and jungle skills, Kraven has no invulnerability, so Spidey would likely pull his punches when hitting him because one punch at full strength would probably have his fist go right through him.
@Evan –
My “Kraven” spelling is not a clone thing. It just feels like Marvel is trying to gaslight us into thinking that either this “Kraven” is the original Kraven, or one of his sons. I don’t know why they’re refusing to remind us that he’s a clone. Just accept it and turn into the skid, you cowards.
I also noticed that “Kraven” calls Queen Goblin “Kafka”. I guess they’re not a first name basis?
“The sins-going-into-the-spear and the transfer-them-to-someone-else bit reminds me of the cursed strawberry pie in Thinner.” Wow, I thought I was the only was the only one who read Thinner. “It is a push.”
That Norman/Peter panel just annoyed me because it’s either Zells not knowing that this never happened in the comics, or he just doesn’t care and is assuming the readers are dumb enough to think the Raimi movies are the actual continuity.
While I don’t like this blending of media for Spidey’s history (something they do all the time with the-symbiote-makes-you-evil thing), it *can* be done well. A good example is Arthur C. Clarke’s 2010 novel, which is a sequel to both his 2001 novel and the 2001 movie by him and Stanley Kubrick. There were things in the 2001 film that weren’t in the novel, and vice versa, and the 2010 novel was a sequel to both (i.e. in 2001 film they went to Jupiter, and in the novel they went to Saturn, so in 2010 Clarke said it was Jupiter). He acknowledged in the 2010 forward that the novel was a sequel to both the film and movie, and any differences from the 2001 novel to the 2010 novel should be taken with a grain of salt. But what Zells is doing here trying to rewrite Peter and Norman’s past is nothing like this. It’s just bad writing, assuming the readers are too dumb and lazy to know the difference between histories.
In the G.O.D.S. page, is the guy with the white stripe in his hair supposed to be the X-Men villain Ahab? (https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Roderick_Campbell_(Earth-811))
“Kraven” going toe to toe with Spidey doesn’t bother me. What does is, as all of you pointed out, the Norman/Peter bit! That’s absolute fail on both the writer and the editor in chief part.
The Spider that Cackle could be a good story beat for both Peter and Norman… But I do NOT trust wells to do it right. I’m.expecting something coming along the left field (a la Kamala) and solve the problem.
@Hornacek
“However, due to his fighting experience, his strength is just enough to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Spider-Man.” I think this means the combination of his strength and experience is enough to harm Spider-Man, not that his strength is doubled. Which makes sense; Spider-Man is much more durable than a normal human but he’s not bulletproof. Enemies with merely “peak human” strength like the Kingpin are able to hurt Spidey, let alone Kraven’s above peak human strength.
Granted, if Spidey stops holding back, Kraven would be a smear on the pavement, but it’s been pretty consistent throughout Spider-Man’s publication that a combination of Spidey’s restraint and an enemy’s skill is enough to allow the latter to hold their own if they’re good and lucky enough.
@Hornacek — If Puddin’ likes the comic, it must be good, right? Right?
Before I even got to the footnotes, I was going to say that I will never tire of your spelling “Kraven” as such, so I commend you for that. By the way, if he and Ashley Kafka are together now, why does he call her Dr. Kafka and not Ashley? Perhaps more importantly, did she laugh maniacally like that when she got Norman’s sins?
The sins-going-into-the-spear and the transfer-them-to-someone-else bit reminds me of the cursed strawberry pie in Thinner.
Peter’s saying that Norman treated him like a son rankles me, as well. To go off on a mild tangent, it reminds me of when I read the Harry Potter series a few summers ago (under the assumption that I must be missing something monumental), and there was a line in Order of the Phoenix which I’ll paraphrase as “Harry disliked Malfoy ever since he met him on the Hogwarts Express.” This was incredibly frustrating to read, because that’s how the two of them met in the Sorcerer’s Stone movie. In the book, they met at Madame Malkin’s robe shop. I never really cared for Harry Potter anyway, but the fact that even the author herself couldn’t keep the continuity straight made me angry and made me like it even less. So once again we have in Spider-man a writer confusing the movie for the written lore.
As for the panels that don’t deserve to be resized, I don’t know what to make of them, either. I don’t even know what “hamming your mule” means, but I’m afraid to look it up.
Ok, this makes *no* sense.
From Kraven’s Marvel Wiki entry:
“Superhuman Strength: Kraven was superhumanly strong and was capable of lifting approximately 2 tons. However, due to his fighting experience, his strength is just enough to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Spider-Man.”
Spider-Man can lift TEN tons. That’s 5 times as much as Kraven. How does experience increase your strength by 5 times?
“Kraven had above-average strength from his jungle training and potions he had taken, but I thought that he didn’t have literal super-strength.”
In his first appearance Kraven said, “I possess undreamed-of strength and speed, which I obtained by drinking a secret potion, stolen from the witch-doctor of an African tribe! With but one punch, I can stop the charge of a bull elephant!”
It’s fairly clear that Stan intended Kraven to have super-strength.Do you know anyone who could stop the charge of a bull-elephant with one punch? And Kraven went hand-to-hand with Peter, Tigra, etc. on various occasions. And the various Handbooks. etc. confirm he had super-strength.
@Michael – “it’s possible that Kafka has some of Norman’s memories and knows where his hideouts are.” Does having Norman’s sins mean you have his memories? I thought it just made you evil.
“the original Kraven had super-strength thanks to the magic potion he took. Presumably clone Kraven took the same potion, since he’s gone hand to hand with both Peter and Ben.” Kraven had above-average strength from his jungle training and potions he had taken, but I thought that he didn’t have literal super-strength.
“Re: Peter not trying to knock Kraven down- I think he was worried that if Kraven dropped the spear it might fall on Norman.” But if he threw himself at “Kraven” it would knock him to the side, and whether he was holding Norman or the spear, it would get knocked to the side too.
“Agreed that Peter seeing Norman as a father figure made no sense. Wells is thinking of the Raimi films.” I was worried about writing this in my review. I kept wondering “Wait, what if I’m forgetting something?” But I was sure that this was a creation of the Raimi films (and other cartoons, I think) and Marvel either chooses not to care or doesn’t remember that it’s not part of the comicbook continuity. Like how the symbiote in the comics never made you evil, but ever since the 90s cartoon some comics writers will pretend that it always did.
“Re: Peter tossing women off of bridges- a variant cover for issue 34 shows Peter abducting MJ- so we might see that happen!” We all know that if it happens on a variant cover, it has to happen!
“Why did Peter say that Michele didn’t know what kind of a man Janice’s father was? Tombstone has been arrested for many crimes in the past, including murder. And Robbie knew Lonnie before he became a villain, and has testified as a witness, so Tombstone’s identity HAS to be public knowledge.” I assume that Peter assumed that Michele was only friends with Janice and knew very little about her father.
“One interesting thing about the letters page- they confirmed that Kamala was brought into Amazing BEFORE it was decided to kill her and resurrect her as a mutant. Which raises the question again- why did Wells bring her into the series? He did nothing with her before he killed her!” At this point do we really believe anything that Lowe says in the letters page?
Re: Kraven getting Norman’s old costume- it’s possible that Kafka has some of Norman’s memories and knows where his hideouts are.
Re: Kraven withstanding Norman’s punch- the original Kraven had super-strength thanks to the magic potion he took. Presumably clone Kraven took the same potion, since he’s gone hand to hand with both Peter and Ben.
Re: Peter not trying to knock Kraven down- I think he was worried that if Kraven dropped the spear it might fall on Norman.
Agreed that Peter seeing Norman as a father figure made no sense. Wells is thinking of the Raimi films.
Re: Peter tossing women off of bridges- a variant cover for issue 34 shows Peter abducting MJ- so we might see that happen!
Why did Peter say that Michele didn’t know what kind of a man Janice’s father was? Tombstone has been arrested for many crimes in the past, including murder. And Robbie knew Lonnie before he became a villain, and has testified as a witness, so Tombstone’s identity HAS to be public knowledge.
One interesting thing about the letters page- they confirmed that Kamala was brought into Amazing BEFORE it was decided to kill her and resurrect her as a mutant. Which raises the question again- why did Wells bring her into the series? He did nothing with her before he killed her!