Spidey and Vulture! Spidey and Norman! What more do I need to say folks? Come on in and let’s talk Spidey!
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Keep Calm and Carrion (Editor’s Note: Mark, you are NOT allowed to just make up titles. -BD)
Writer: Zeb Wells
Pencils: John Romita, Jr
Inker: Scott Hanna
Colorist: Marco Menyz
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artists: John Romita, Jr, Scott Hanna, and Marco Menyz
Asst. Editor: Lindsey Cohick and Kaeden McGahey
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: 24 August 2022 (I wrote the date backwards for all my British friends out there!)
Remedial ASM 101
Peter turns down Norman’s job offer and tech Spider-Man suit. Vulture is upset because Spidey told his granddaughter he was a murderer, so he decides to break Spidey’s web shooters and drop him from way too high to survive.
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
Spider-Man is falling but keeps his wits about him and breaks web cartridges to gum up the trees and break his fall. The Vulture is relentless, though, and continues to keep Spider-Man on defense until finally Spider-Man realizes that he’s not ready to face this and turns to Norman’s ready made Spidey-Suit/Spider-Glider. This gives him the extra boost he needs (plus a Spider-Goblin bomb that releases about a hundred or so tiny spider robots that I think is both cool and quite creepy at the same time) and defeats the Vulture. After having a bit of a heart to heart, Spider-Man leaves him to confront Norman who reveals that the temptation of the Spider-Glider was almost too much. Peter believes Norman really does want to change, so he takes a job at Oscorp.
What Passed and Failed
PASS – The pacing – I got a vulture story in two issues with the bigger story building up int he background. I’ll take that all day long.
FAIL – The emoji face – I’m sure there is some pop-culture reference here that I am too old to get and that Bogenreider will make sure to fill me in on.
PASS – Spidey Joking while Vulture is trying to kill him:
PASS – A letter’s page without Norbot – Seriously guys, you have no idea how obnoxious he can be. Is this like the first one? Feels like it. I mean, we’re best friends and all, but geez…
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), SNAP rates a 9. Why such a high grade for such a simple onomatopoeia? Because it’s used effectively 27-40 times each panel – and to show it is the background noise, the larger onomatopoeias are written over top of it. That’s top quality onomatopoeiaing right there.
Analysis
One way to approach literary analysis is reader response theory. This means there are three books, or in our case, comic book issues. Comic Book 1 is the story that Zeb Wells wanted to tell. It exists in his head. Comic Book 2 is the actual issue that was published. It is a bit different than Comic Book 1 because just the act of trying to put thoughts into words changes them, plus you have editors, artists, and colorists adding their interpretations to it, changing it in lots of ways both minor and major. Comic Book 3 is the issue that exists in the reader’s head. Each person brings to Comic Book 3 their feelings about Spider-Man, comics, past experiences with Vulture stories, expectations of what should be happening, negative or positive energy based on what is going on in their lives, etc. All these things go in to shape the story into something different. All of us have our own Comic Book 3. That is why we see so many different grades and takes on something and why I never liked it when someone gets upset when a different reader has a different take. We may have read the same Comic Book 2, but all of us read a different Comic Book 3.
One thing that hangs over this run is the whole
I believe that is entirely fair since Wells is the one who introduced it. At this point, I feel he is dragging it out without giving us good reason to care and the longer it goes, the harder it is going to be to live up to the hype.
I came into this issue swamped with work. I’ve been behind on my comic book reading and was not all that interested in squeezing this one in. That’s not a fair way to judge this issue, but it is my Comic Book 3. That said, I really enjoyed this one. It’s a simple story and I really like that I got a complete Vulture story in two issues. That’s good pacing. Plus, how many times has Spidey been dropped from a height? Tons! How many times has he saved himself by cracking open his web cartridges? None that I can recall (though I’m sure someone with a sharper memory than mine will pull out some issue where this happened). That’s one mark of a good storyteller – find a way to make something old feel new. When you come down to it, there aren’t that many story plots out there (about 7-9). Kurt Vonnegut Jr has an excellent bit on it.
However, I am not disregarding the “It’s been done before” complaint. That’s valid, but I think too often we let that carry too much weight. In this case, we have a new suit. Again. Am I thrilled about that? Not really, and I really hate the reliance Peter already feels towards it.
We’ve done that shtick before and with the exception of the original appearance of the symbiote, it has never been done well, in my opinion. Plus, they had one in Spencer’s run that never capitalized on its potential and they had another with the previous run with Ben Reilly. Does it mean that it can’t be done well here? No, but it does affect my Comic Book 3.
But it does give us a great moment with Norman. This moment really gives me hope in Wells’s ability to make this arc worth reading. At first, it did not make any sense to me that we get this:
other than maybe reminding us that Norman still has the Goblin powers even if his Goblin sins have been removed. After the fight, though, we get this:
For all intents and purposes, Norman is an addict to being the Goblin – and for what it’s worth, I think this is the best way to handle the cleansing of his sins. It made sense for Overdrive to become a hero figure after his sins were forgiven. He always wanted that to begin with, but had lost his way like Dante venturing into the Woods of Error. But Norman, well, he chooses to be evil. There is a part of him that wants to be the good father, but it has always been in conflict with the desire for power. His sins cleansing didn’t change who he is nor did it alter his personality. All it did was give him a second chance.
This also means he could fall at any point and become a tragic figure. Now, every time Spidey needs help, he is putting himself in that temptation. I fully expect that Peter is going to do something eventually that aids in Norman’s relapse.
This also redeems that awful concept that Norman traded Harry’s soul for power. And it redeems it in the best way – if you want to stay focused on continuity is continuity despite it being stupid, then the deal still works. But this scene that shows Norman is still battling this part of himself shows, to me at least, he would have gone down this route (or a similar one) on his on. Mephisto sold him what he already had.
What about the vulture? It was a good story and we have another one of these Spider-Man showing some sort of compassion for his enemies. Is this just Wells’s take on the character or has this six-month event having some affect on the way he sees others? I guess that remains to be seen. I know that some people are going to use the same argument that the Vulture should not be able to take down Spider-Man. My response to that is why not? I mean, the Vulture has been beaten many times before, and he gets eventually beaten here, but we should assume that the villains can grow in their ability the same way the heroes can. In this case, the Vulture is aware of all the ways Spider-Man gets out of his tricks and adapts. We should expect him too. By using surprise AND breaking the web shooters AND getting away from buildings, Vulture manages to maximize his power advantage. Spider-Man cleverly uses his brains to crack open the spare cartridges. If there is a complaint at all, it would be in Peter’s sudden feeling that he needs the special suit.
Why? Well, one answer would be that Wells wants to drive Spider-Man in that direction. OK, fair enough complaint, but I am not completely ready to just throw it away as not being organic to the plot. Peter saw the suit and rejected the idea of it. Then he gets taken by surprise by the Vulture.
So, at this point, Vulture clearly has the upper hand and he is not trying to get away with a crime here, like often when Spider-Man catches criminals in the act. Instead, his entire focus is only on killing Spider-Man. Spidey knows this and is not ready. His best weapon against a flying Vulture is his webs and they are not working. His ribs are broken, so his judgment is clouded by pain. The suit is the quick fix and at the moment, it is all Spider-Man can think of. We’ve been in situations (hopefully not life-threatening ones) where we ignored a simpler solution because we were hyper-focused on doing it one way. I believe that is what we are seeing here.
Am I, the reader, working too hard to fill in gaps? Maybe. That’s just my take and why I don’t just dismiss characters like Vulture and Tombstone as not being threats to Spider-Man anymore. Plus, I am impressed by Wells for being able to make older villains relevant in ways other than giving them power/suit upgrades. I think that sometimes power/suit upgrades are good, but too often they are just lazy writing.
To me, this shows that Wells is a strong character writer, when he wants to be.
Well, that was probably more than you wanted from me on this issue…
Extra Credit
Which villain would you like to have come out of retirement in Wells’s run? I think the Shocker might be a good one. I am sad we didn’t get that all out Gang War that was teased.
Final Grade
I am solidly impressed by most of this run. The pacing moving along at a good clip and the characterization for the most part is clever. THere are a few things hanging over this book that, fair or not, ding it a little.
B+
What’s Next?
HELLFIRE GALA TIE-IN! Something happens at the Hellfire Gala that sends Spider-Man and WOLVERINE on a dangerous mission all over creation! That’s right – the best duo in comics is back, but who are they fighting, and what (or who) are they fighting for? NO SPOILERS HERE!
Well, folks, I have zero interest in the Hellifre Gala, so I am happy that Chi-Town will be taking it next issue. I’m hoping that the mystery villain is the skinned MJ. That should make Chi-Town happy…
‘Nuff Said!
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@Jason
It may be the synopsis is referring to whatever happened six months ago, which may or may not be related to the current Osborn’s project (probably not, but I’m still at issue 6).
But really, it’s not the first time the synopsis has some kind of error. If I recall correctly, it happened in one of the first issues of this run. It makes me wonder who writes them.
@Jason – I completely agree with you on the Vulture. I love seeing older villains being able to hold their own with the hero. I like it even better when they don’t have to have some upgrade to their powers. As for the Norman thing, the team up refers to something they did during the stuff months that still remains a mystery to us. Hopefully we will find out before too much longer!
I can see the objection to the Vulture seemingly being able to defeat Spider-Man, but at the same time, do you want to see Spider-Man easily defeat a villain time and time again? Spider-Man has often relied on a rush of adrenaline when he’s been at his worst and up against a tough opponent. The Vulture is enraged by the loss of his granddaughter, so of course he’s going to come at Spidey a little bit harder than in the past. Asking for help from Norman, however, I agree is a bit out of character for someone who has literally lifted tall buildings at one of his weakest moments.
The synopsis page of this issue indicated Peter and Norman were working on a project together six months prior. I went back to issue seven, thinking I missed something, and nope, I didn’t get that impression at all. When Norman is talking about the project as he’s trying to persuade Peter to take the job offer, yes he uses “we” and “our” when referring to the project, but I took it as him talking about Oscorp. A later text bubble says he wants to continue working on the project with Peter and there’s a separate bubble reading “together.” This also seems to indicate there was no prior team-up on this project. Thoughts?
@Evan Berry
Also, they die at the end. What a great romance to aspire to!
@PeterParkerfan
I would say losing a wife should also be emotionally heavier than anything he could have done in that six months… Unless he killed someone.
And about Peter being an incompetent screw-up, it’s to be expected when there are editors who think like this:
Peter Parker was just this stupid kid trying to make something good out of this weird accident that happened to him and often lousing up in the way he did it.” Brevoort noted that Spider-Man was often bad at using his powers, which he found relatable.
Source:
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/spider-man-formative-moments-j-m-dematteis-tom-brevoort-stephen-wacker
I think this explains a lot. Also, did Brevoort read the same ’60s issues I read? Because I remember Peter Parker to be incredibily resourceful for a teenager. He even used his web in ways we have rarely (if ever) seen again.
@Mark – It’s one thing when Spider-Man’s rogues gallery is threatening, it’s another when he’s completely unable to defend himself from them and gets beaten to a pulp. It happened with Tombstone in the last storyline, and it almost happened with Vulture in this issue. The fight with Vulture was horribly one-sided until Peter put on that dumb emoji suit. Also, he’s been depressed before (remember when MJ “died”?), but that didn’t stop him from putting up a good fight against his adversaries. Heck, in Spencer’s Hunted story arc Peter managed to land some hits to Kraven jr despite getting affected by hallucination gas and having a fever on top of that… so why is it a problem for him now? What gives?
Then there’s also the part where Peter begs Norman of all people to come and save him AFTER he decided that he’s not going to work with him in #7. He even had a monologue where he says Norman’s sins getting cleansed doesn’t erase their history… only to do a total 180 when things got a little rough for him. That was just pathetic.
In Slott’s post-Superior ASM Peter was both a man-child AND an incompetent screw-up. Here he isn’t really a man-child, but still is an incompetent screw-up… which isn’t any better if you ask me. I just don’t see how I’m supposed to enjoy this run if this is how Wells going to portray Peter.
@Aqu@ and Mark — I can’t stand Romeo and Juliet, mainly because in popular culture it’s held up, for whatever reason, as the ideal, quintessential romance, but that could not be farther from the truth, since it’s fraught with impulsiveness, impatience, irrationality, and stupidity. I think Shakespeare would be disappointed that so many people misunderstood the point of the story. The same applies to The Great Gatsby: It’s a beautifully written story, but it’s about the superficiality and falseness inherent in a life dedicated to excess and luxury, so I get frustrated when people have “Great Gatsby parties.” It makes me wonder if they even read the book.
By the way, Mark — I tend to agree with your assessment of the “Paul hit someone” episode. What you say makes sense to me. I guess it just wasn’t conveyed clearly. Now it reads like an attempt at a joke. Too bad it had the opposite effect. As you often say, though, at what point is the reader doing more work than the writer in making sense of the story, and, I’d add, is that an indicator of bad writing? I tend to think so. Then again, my jokes don’t often land the way I intended, especially in writing, so I understand.
@Stuart and @Aqu@
Stuart – You make good points and I am hard pressed to really argue against them. The only thing I will quibble about is Paul hitting Peter. I believe, but I’m not going back to the issue to make sure, Paul is on the phone with MJ and says he is only going to talk to Peter. Then he says something like, ‘When have I ever acted irrationally?’ She says something we can’t hear and he responds, ‘Well he deserved to get hit.’ I think he was referring to a different encounter she brought up where he lost his temper with someone and hit him, not an encounter with Peter. If anyone here is so inclined, go back and read that scene and see if my take makes sense. But other than that, I’ll have to agree with Evan and say you make good points. I’m still enjoying the ride, though. 🙂
Aqu@ – It’s more that I am just tired of teaching it. I taught ninth grade for several years and that was always a staple. Young stupid love gets old after the tenth time reading it!
@Mark
LOL Now I’m curious as to why you consider Romeo and Juliet horrendous. (being foreign literature for me, I never studied it deeper than the plot at school)
@Stuart Green
To me Superior Spider-man was fine and fun by itself (afterall, we all knew it wouldn’t last); the real bummer was the lack of real consequences after something like that.
I agree that after everything Norman did to Peter and his loved ones, it’s hard to believe he would accept anything from him, sins or not sins. But since I’m stil at the first issue, I can’t say much more than that.
Eh, you all loved PS4 Spider-man and his selfies, emoji face Spider-Man was the next logical step. You called for it.
(yes, I’m trolling :p)
@Mark – Thanks for the reply. I get that Norman is cleansed and Peter is all for giving people second chances. But then again, I’m still not thrilled with Peter giving Doc Ock a “clean slate” after he switched bodies with Peter, but I try not to think of “The Superior Spider-Man” run as much as possible. I know there are fans of that storyline, but I’m not one of them. Like you said, Zeb Wells is working with a storyline for Norman he’s given to him and is doing his take on it. I respect that, but I don’t have to like it. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing Peter and Norman working together.
The six month time jump really irks me mostly not because it’s not being acknowledged or given clues to, it’s what it’s done to Peter as a result. Think about it. He’s not on good terms with his friends in and out of the costume. He’s being made fun of and insulted by friends and strangers literally every, or every other, issue. Mary Jane is with Paul, who hit Peter (which is out of character for Mary Jane to be with someone like that). Peter’s running around in Norman’s new suit and tech. We have emoji face Spider-Man. This is NOT what I think of when I think of Spider-Man.
I am also worried about when, exactly, Peter and Mary Jane will get back together. It’s disappointing and baffling that Marvel interfered with Nick Spencer’s run and changed his storyline. He spent all that time repairing Peter’s relationship to Mary Jane and building their relationship back up, only for Marvel to break them up again, have Mary Jane with Paul and his kids, and have M.J. leave the Spidey books to be in the X-Men books. It didn’t work out splitting up Peter and Mary Jane and sending Mary Jane to the monthly Iron Man book, so why should sending her to the X-Men books work out any better? Since Marvel has no plans to have Peter and Mary Jane be together and have their relationship actually be allowed to grow, it makes me even more disappointed.
And to be clear, I said I liked the Howard Mackie/John Byrne “Chapter One” era over this run, not “Chapter One” itself. Sure, it was a terrible storyline and Marvel was mandating splitting up Peter and M.J. with her eventual faked death, but only then we had Peter and Mary Jane written out of character and Aunt May’s death retconned. Peter was still experienced enough and competent enough to know how to defeat his own enemies, his powers and skills weren’t nerfed, the terrible mystery with Senator Ward was at least being built up and hinted at, they were trying new things by having new villains (which, thankfully, didn’t last) and Peter’s new job at TriCorp, and Peter wasn’t written as a single man-child. Even when Peter was mourning Mary Jane’s “death” in the Mackie run, we still had his supporting cast around him, Peter wasn’t on bad terms with his friends as Peter or Spider-Man, and things picked up near the end of the run by having Paul Jenkins’ run on “Peter Parker: Spider-Man”, having Mary Jane turn up alive, and later with J. Michael Straczynski’s run on “Amazing”. People forget about the Mackie/Byrne run with good reason, but let’s face it – we all knew it wouldn’t last and Marvel learned from that run not to let any of those changes actually stick. In this case, however, what happens after Zeb Wells leaves and the next writer takes over? What exactly will Marvel take away from this and will they learn the right lessons on what to do next? Will the next new writer actually be allowed to write the character and books however he or she wants or will they have editorial interference then too? Right now, we have Marvel having Peter and M.J. apart because reasons, M.J. is leaving the books altogether, the current Scooby-Doo mystery is just there and not being explored, and we now have another Spider-Man ongoing by writer Dan Slott. The future right now isn’t looking too bright for our friendly neighborhood hero.
And my apologies, but my “Z” rating remains intact. Thanks for the reply, though, I sincerely appreciate it. I hope you all are having a great day and stay safe, everyone.
@PeterParkerfan, @Stuart Green, and @Evan
PeterParkerfan – Personally, I have no problem with The Vulture giving Peter problems because that’s one of his main villains – he should be able to give Spider-Man a hard time. Same with Shocker, Rhino, Electro, Kraven, etc. Sure, Spidey progresses and should be able to beat them soundly four out of five times, but this was that fifth time. In my opinion, at least. If we get to where Spider-Man is not at all threatened by his traditional rogue’s gallery, then he ends up being a cosmic/Avengers type hero and I like him staying street level. In my mind, as I read it, these villains are learning and growing as well to use their powers and abilities better, just like our hero is. I do have one major problem with this fight, but the fact that the Vulture is winning is not that. I am also not seeing him as an incompetent screw-up. That’s more like the Slott web-diaper issue and I’m not getting that vibe from him here. It is more on the he’s off his game and a bit depressed, so he is not operating at full potential at the moment – and why would he be able to when he’s lost the love of his life? That’s just my take on it, which is why I think I am enjoying this a little (OK, a lot) better than probably the majority of Crawlspace readers.
Stuart Green – You bring up some really good points. I’ll address them not to say you are wrong, but to present a different side in hopes that you will be able to bring your enjoyment level from Z to at least a C-, because it stinks to not enjoy a favorite fandom.
Going to Norman for help – The Norman/Peter dynamic has always been tricky and right now, with Norman cleansed of his sins and trying to be a better person, that should account for something. If we do believe in second chances, then Peter has to give Norman a chance here. He has held out for a while, but eventually this constant spurning a changed Norman just begins to make Peter look like a bad guy. I applaud Wells for continuing to develop this cleansed Norman when that cannot be an easy thing to do and not something that he put into play, but got stuck with. He could have just left Norman out of the book, but took up the challenge. So I’m ready to see what is done. Plus, the more we see Norman try to be good (when he obvious is still a jerk at heart), the greater his fall will be if done right – and until Wells messes up the fall, I am holding out hope that it is done right.
OK, the begging for Norman’s help I cannot argue against. That is a stinking point with me too. The only saving grace here was that it provided an opportunity to see that Norman is struggling against his inner desire to return to the Goblin. Do I like it when plot forces story? Not really. Could it have been done a better way, probably. Does it drop the book’s grade? Yep. the only thing I can maybe come up with is that his confidence is shaken so much after whatever happened six months ago, that he isn’t making the best decisions right now.
I have no defense for the six month time jump. I hate it. I hate the fact that our main character knows something and we are in the dark. It is like those shows where everything relies on flashbacks in order to understand it. I hate that. I love a mystery where we are trying to figure it out with the hero, not one where I feel left in the dark. However, that six months had little to do with the Vulture fight (other than putting Norman and Peter in a situation together), so I tried to not grade this issue based on that. I understand that many readers will not be able to ignore that as they read. I just feel like I have to or else I’ll be hating everything in the book and I actually enjoy the Tombstone and Vulture stuff.
Maybe you need to go back and read Chapter One to remember how bad it was! I have to absolutely disagree with saying that this run makes THAT run look Shakespearean (unless, of course, you are referring to Romeo and Juliet, which was horrendous and if I ever have to teach it again, I will start in Act V with Romeo holding the bottle of poison over Juliet’s supposed corpse and be done with it in a day).
I feel you can completely drop the whole recon idea. I bet we will see MJ and Peter together again after we deal with this six month mystery. When will that be? Well, probably in less time than it took to deal with Kindred and there is a good chance the resolution to this will at least be better than the resolution to that!
Evan – See above!
I have to say, Stuart Green makes some very good points…
But, yeah, I’ve always liked John Romita, Jr.’s art, so there’s that, right?
@Mark You are a bigger sport than I for not giving this issue, and this run overall, an F. Actually, I quote my favorite line from “Dave the Barbarian” – “There must be some grade lower than F minus! Z!! Z!! Z, Z, Z, Z –!!!”
Having Peter, and also previously Mary Jane, go to Norman for help in Wells’ run is so out of character for both of them. This is the same man who killed Gwen Stacy, masterminded the Clone Saga, stole/killed Peter and Mary Jane’s baby, killed Ben Reilly, faked the death of Aunt May, sold his son’s soul and countless other acts. It’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth to see Peter working with Norman, let alone donning his suit and using his glider and tech.
Also, Peter has broken ribs, so automatically he needs Norman’s help? This is the same guy who has been fighting super villains since he was 15, took on the entire X-Men in “Secret Wars”, defeated Firelord single handedly, went toe-to-toe with Thanos, created his own brief armored suit, and went out with BOTH sides of his ribcage broken to find Venom and Carnage during “Maximum Carnage”. Having Peter suddenly begging Norman for help and his tech because he can’t handle the Vulture without them is cringe inducing. Making Peter even more ineffective as a hero and nerfing his powers and experience is reason alone to give this an “F”.
And don’t get me started on breaking up Peter and Mary Jane AGAIN and having a pointless “six months later” time jump that Wells seems to have either forgotten about or is choosing not to focus on at all at this point.
As someone who read and bought Spider-Man comics as a kid all the way up until “One More Day”, this is the worst run on a Spider-Man comic I’ve read in recent years. This is making the Howard Mackie/John Byrne “Chapter One” era run look Shakespearean to me by comparison, and I am NOT a fan of that run.
I hope this entire run gets retconned and Peter and Mary Jane get back together next year. I am not a fan of the lack of character development and growth for Peter and his supporting cast, having everyone making fun of and being “on the ropes” with Peter, having Mary Jane with Paul and his kids and moving to the X-Men books, and nerfing Peter’s skills, powers, and intelligence. What exactly is there to celebrate for Spider-Man’s 60th anniversary this year when we’re getting such terrible writing, lack of growth, a lack of focus on the main plot and purpose of the relaunch with the six month mystery, and the greatest couple in comics getting split up yet again after building their romance and relationship back up in Nick Spencer’s run?
End… the pain…
So in this issue we have a Spider-Man who’s unable to defend himself from an old foe he’s fought plenty of times and had to pretty much beg for his life to fricking Norman of all people… wow.
Wells have been writting Peter as an incompetent screw-up in this run and I do NOT like it. I want him off the book already.
@Stenurus and @Aqu@
Sthenurus – Thanks for the kind words! I look at the spider-sense like I look at my hearing. There are plenty of things that happen that I technically hear, but don’t really register. I assume that spider-sense is constantly buzzing about this, that, and whatever, so he usually blocks it out unless he is in full fight mode and even then, it just makes him harder to punch, not impossible. Tombstone nullified by getting Spider-Man in a closed space. Vulture got the jump on him, not an easy thing to do, but precedence shows it is not impossible, and once he did, all the advantages were his – until they weren’t. So I have never minded the occasional lapse in spider-sense (though again, that may just be me working harder than the writer, I guess).
I am looking forward to this working with Norman. So far Wells has had an interesting take on this sin-less Norman, so I’m willing to give him a chance to play with it for a while. I figured that when Spencer left, the next writer would just fix it and be done, but Wells seems happy to play with these loose ends and see where they take him.
Aqu@ – I am pretty proud of that title. Maybe Marvel can get me a job just titling issues! To expound upon your character-over-time thought, imagine how it must feel to be a Batman fan! That character has way too many takes from serious to campy and all levels in-between and that whole child-endangerment shadow. I wish that we would drop the ASM at two to three times a month and bring back PPTSSM and Web, especially how they did it in the ’80s where each title was more or less independent of the other and had different focuses. I liked that, though I sure there are good reasons why that can’t happen now.
As for the letter – good luck! If you want, send it to me and I can put it up in my next review (#10) and tell everyone that it was printed in the back!
And Math can go for a long walk off a short pier for all I care!
I liked very much your explanation of the reader response theory. The fact that every one of us experiences things differently is (unfortunately) very true and quite universal, being for example also applicable to who is Spider-man as a character. Which is the problem with having a character go on for so long, with so many different creative directions (writers and artists) and so many alternate versions in other medias that, in turn, may influence the original character, for better or worse. Go on for too long and the result will be a degenerated character.
As for the issue, as usual I’ll know what to think when I catch up on MU.
Also, your title is great.
“ Yeah… Math is difficult…”
No, it is not. And since Math is not an opinion, that’s not debatable. :p
@Michael
Well, they don’t care for continuity anymore, costume mishaps are the least.
@Mark
I guess they didn’t like the thought of encouraging people to find their mistakes.
I hope not. Otherwise it would speak volume on their attitude. The no-prize was brilliant, because it showed humility and a good sense of humour on their part.
Which leads me to ask: so, no sign of my letter in this issue? I’m eager to see it published not for ego, but to prove me wrong on the idea they don’t publish negative letters (and mine was quite complaining).
Great review from you, ok issue from marvel!
The Norman bit was good. Character growth. I liked it.
Vulture fight should have ended in 2 panels. Spider sense, jump out of the way, knock him out. Done .
I’m also surprised Peter didn’t take the job to keep an eye on Norman to begin with. That’d be a very Peter thing to do.
@Michael, @John, @Paul Penna
Michael – The way I see it, the sins will either stay with Kafka to keep her a villain and Norman will just creating new sins, or (and I think this is more likely) Norman will, in the attempts to be the hero, take the sins from her, thus sacrificing himself to his more villainous proclivities. Maybe she will go after his grandson and he does it save Normie. As for the costume continuity – these kind of gaffs were what No Prizes were created for. Too bad they stopped doing those. I wonder why they did? I guess they didn’t like the thought of encouraging people to find their mistakes. And speaking of mistakes…
John – Yeah… Math is difficult…
Paul – You hit the nail on the head – “He wants to be better, but he’s still Norman Osborn.” I was so hoping that this was the direction they were going to take here and they are! I’m sure it won’t last, but man I sure hope it does! With the exception of the “I need the suit to win”, I enjoyed this fight. There is only so much you can do with the Vulture, I think, and they did it. It was enough for me. Maybe it was my state of mind when reading it – I didn’t really want a complex character growth sort of thing, so I enjoyed the mindless drop-Spidey-from-great-height story. But I completely see you side of it. Comic Book 3 and all.
But that stinking mystery. It’s odd to me that Wells, who seems to be better at writing one to three issue stories, is letting this sit out here so long. A bit of a misstep, in my opinion. The longer this things takes to get resolved, the harder it will be to live up to the hype. I wonder if dragging out Kindred and dragging out this mystery is more the will of the writer or the will of the editor?
I liked Norman’s characterisation here. Becoming the Goblin is a temptation for him. I also think, risking letting Peter die, so he doesn’t give into that temptation is a selfish move which is in-keeping with the character. He wants to be better, but he’s still Norman Osborn.
The whole Vulture fight just wasn’t interesting to me. It was just very obvious how things were going to pan out. Really, using the Vulture here was just a way to get Spider-Man to need his new suit. I don’t think the Vulture himself is made more interesting by this story.
I mean, the fight is done well. But neither Spidey or the Vulture grew as characters. Adrian Toomes has always blamed others for his problems, even when he’s the root cause, he’s going to continue to do so. And we’ve seen plenty of Spidey/Vulture fights before. I guess I was hoping for more.
And again, the “mystery” remains unresolved. No clues are given, no hints. I have a hard time believing any readers are invested in the mystery, and I’m beginning to wonder if the creative team is either. We’re eight issues in, and we know close to nothing.
I believe this is amazing spider man 8, not 9
According to the previews, Norman WILL be getting on the glider again as a hero. I do think that Norman’s desire not to become evil again will be his downfall- he finds out what Kafka 2.0 is going through, and refuses to take the sins back- which is basically allowing someone else to suffer because of his bad choices, exactly what the Old Norman would do.
One thing that bugs me- when does the Free Comic Book Day story take place? Illyana and Madelyne get their new costumes in New Mutants 28. Peter gets his new costume this issue. Illyana is wearing her old costume in Judgement Day, which takes place after the Hellfire Gala. This issue takes place before the Hellfire Gala. Peter is wearing his old costume in the FCBD story and Maddie is wearing her new costume. So if the FCBD story takes place before this issue, then Magik should wearing her new costume in Judgement Day. OTOH, if the FCBD story takes place after Judgement Day, then Peter should be wearing his new costume in the FCBD story. I guess you can explain it away by saying someone’s costume was in the wash, but still…