This is it! The final chapter in the Beyond arc and a milestone 225th Alford Crawlspace post! Assuming you’ve managed to stay unspoiled this past week, will it be worth it (the comic – not my post (of course MY post is worth it))? Let’s find out together. I’m about to read it myself and then I’ll share my thoughts below!
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Spider vs Spider
Writer: Zeb Wells
Artist: Patrick Gleason / Sara Pichelli / Mark Bagley and Tim Townsend
Colorist: Bryan Valenza / Carlos Lopez
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artist: Arthur Adams and Alejandro Sanchez
Asst. Editor: Lindsey Cohick and Kaeden McGahey
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: March 30, 2022
Remedial ASM 101
Ben has had all his memories of his life as Peter Parker erased and he is desperate to get them back. Maxine Danger’s Beyond department is crumbling around her. Peter is off to try and rescue Ben.
Wait – Where is ASM 92.Bey?
OK, I was supposed to do that one (and Chi-Town has surely given me heck for not doing it), but it was awful and only had one panel of Spider-Man, and focused more on Photon going on and on about how no one likes her until I began to dislike her severely. So , here’s my review of the one panel Spider-Man exists in: Ben goes after Maxine and is met by the Web Slingers. Grade: F
Wait – Where is Chi-Town?
I know it comes as a great relief to you guys that I am here in place of Chi-Town, who had previously proclaimed he was going to review this issue, but he is on vacation. In fact, he showed up at my door several days ago and won’t go away. My pantry is almost bare – you would not believe how much that skinny guy can wolf down. He keeps saying, in Chicago, we do it this way. In Chicago, we do it that way. And so on and so on. Don’t get him started on that crap he calls pizza. Brings to mind Ben Franklin’s quote: Guests, like fish, tend to smell after three days. However, not to disrespect venerable Franklin, but Chi-Town was smelly before he ever got here. If anyone has the number to a good couch fumigator, let me know.
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
Ben easily takes care of the Web Slingers and makes his way to Maxine Danger. She lets him know that it was all Ben’s idea not to keep back ups of his memory so that he can keep his friend’s identity a secret, but if he wants them back, all he has to do is to get the other Spider-Man to wear this not-at-all sketchy helmet. Ben goes off in search of Peter, but when Peter will not voluntarily put on a helmet that will most certainly not end well for him, Ben goes on the offensive. Peter and Ben should be equally matched, but Peter is not fully recovered and Ben has all the Beyond tech at his disposal. Still, we see why Peter is the REAL Spider-Man as he holds his own against Ben. Maxine sends a kill crew out to get Marcus, but Janine rescues him and they go off to rescue Ben and Peter. Then, in a nice little bit of situational irony, the Beyond Board tries to kill Maxine Danger, but not being the little wuss that Marcus is, saves herself.
After Ben and Peter fight for several pages, the super-really-sketchy memory helmet crumbles and Ben, in desperation falls to his death in psycho-reactive goo. Peter recovers in the hospital while Aunt May threatens a skeptical doctor. Janine goes and finds that Ben didn’t die after all, but he’s…changed. Just when Peter and MJ decide to live together, some glowing dude comes in and claims “The trail of blood leads to you!” Then, in a final ending (this book has more endings that Return of the King – well, the movie, at least. The book still hold the records for most endings ever), Ben reveals that he is quite insane and is not going by the name…
Whew! This was a long issue!
What Passed and Failed
FAIL – Spoilers – So, for a while now I’ve been hearing other Crawlspace staff talking about how there are spoilers out there (I believe Bleeding Cool is a major culprit). I avoided them. I understanding talking about the issue the day of release, but anything prior to that? That makes you a jerk.
PASS – GYARRGH! – I like how Ben uses this grunt earlier, then several pages later, Peter uses it.
PASS – Marcus – I love this character. I hate to see him go. Maybe he can get a job at the Daily Bugle and stay with us for a while.
I thought this scene felt like a nod to that Tangled Webs #4: Severance Package. (Not to be confused with Thomas Mets’s awesome Tangled Webs column!)
I think we can safely assume that none of these babies made it out alive. Ohhhh, maybe the psycho reactive goo turned them into little baby villains…
PASS – Brains vs Tech – So Ben has Beyond’s tech, but I’ll go with Peter Parker anyday.
When this was announced, many thought it was to sideline Peter, but I do believe all throughout this arc, they have shown that Peter is indeed the one true Spider-Man. Little scenes like this have hammered it repeatedly.
FAIL – Ben dies…again – To Zeb Wells’s credit, he came up with a way to kill Ben that wasn’t mention in George Berryman’s list of 101 Unpleasant Ways for Ben Reilly to Die (OK, I am going to admit, I didn’t go back and scroll through all the ways again, but I’m pretty sure I don’t remember psycho reactive goo being on the list).
PASS – This doctor vs Aunt May show down –
PASS – Psycho Reactive Goo Spelling – The concept is meh, but I love how it was spelling Ben’s name on the wall when Janine was calling for him. Just thought it was an interesting touch
FAIL – Bagely’s jarring art at the end of the issue – I know. You all love Bagley and I don’t hate him, but while his MJ is not reminiscent of a Ditko henchman in this issue, she does look like he was trying to draw Kristy instead. It is quite a bit different than the rest of the issue.
PASS – No filler – this is an extra long issue and there is really no filler here. All of it is story related. No back up stories, no wasted time on the Web Slingers. In fact, it felt like Zeb Wells read the previous issue and thought, “Web Slingers? Who cares!” and then just wrote Ben plowing through them like they were nothing and did not care to even explain why they don’t follow him after they recover.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
OK, guys, I’m placing the OOTI burden upon you. Which one of these deserves the coveted OOTI designation?
LTOTI
This style of writing is very difficult to pull off. It was made famous by the Choose Your Own Adventure books of long ago, which were not quite as famous as the Marvel Spider-Man game book which was in second person, or the awesome Cobwebs article about it, which was also in second person. Hey, I never said I was above a little shameless self-plugging!
VWOTI
Wow! An OOTI, LTOTI, and a VWOTI all in the same review!
Analysis
Spider vs Spider – Of course, I did some research on spiders fighting spiders for this review. You can watch five spider fights on a Monster Bug Wars documentary or you can see our very own Chi-Town and Ryan Read with their backwater channel as they fight two spiders. Warning, Chi-Town and Ryan are speaking Japanese, so you may not be able to understand them, but then again, in Chi-Town’s case, it’s probably for the best. Although he’s uncredited, I believe Neil is the sound artist for both videos. I wanted to get the Chi-Town and Read video that had JR’s guest appearance, but it was too and Brad has a strict no NC-17 ratings policy. Trust me – you don’t want to know. Once you see THAT, you cannot unsee it.
The Real Spider vs Spider – This issue promises Ben vs. Peter – and it delivers on that promise. As mentioned before, there is no filler here. No Daughters of the Dragon, no Photon, no Goblin Queen – nothing that is not relevant to the issue at hand – Ben & Peter, Janine & Marcus, Maxine Danger.
I do have mixed feelings about the fight. In a sense, all superhero fights are contrived, and I feel that some, especially Ben Reilly fans, might feel that Ben is not acting like himself. But that is the point here. He has lost almost everything that makes him who he is, and he is desperate to get it back. He is not in his right mind and so acts accordingly. I feel that him asking Peter to put that helmet on is obviously an unreasonable request, but when you remember that people have been mucking about in his head, then you understand that he has not thought this out. That is why he is so easily manipulated by Maxine Danger. The Ben Reilly we knew several issues ago was taking the this job out of optimism, but was keeping a wary eye on things. Just not wary enough it seems.
Once we get that Ben is desperate not just to save his life, but to reclaim the very part of him that makes him him (yes, that is, strangely enough, grammatically correct), we understand his actions, even if we can’t get behind those actions.
Throughout the fight, the artist and writer were having some fun making it as eye-appealing as possible.
I don’t remember the last time we saw Spidey head butt someone.
I found this interesting. This is a Beyond suit. They made it web resistant. If you had any doubt, they were anticipating this confrontation. They also maybe had this tech to handle Ben in case he turned on them.
Ben Reilly’s transformation – For decades, Marvel has not quite known what to do with Ben Reilly. In fact, Nick Lowe pretty much says as much in his letter pages. The whole point of this arc was to deal with Ben Reilly and remove him from the spider landscape, at least for a while. In some ways it felt like they were trying to make him into a villain again, a la Ben Jackal. It was refreshing that, while some of this was mentioned, the big fight was not a “I want to be Spider-Man!” fight. I enjoyed them taking away Ben’s memories, because I thought what we would get would be a Kaine-esque character (all the power, none of the responsibility). I was really hoping for a satellite title out this: Ben Reilly the Spectacular Spider-Man where he goes off somewhere not New York and he and Janine try to pick up the pieces of their lives and figure out how to move on from there. Unfortunately, we will not get that. Instead he is this weird creature Chasm. The question now is what is he? Is he hero or villain? Did he leave Janine completely or did he just go off to roam the streets for a while? Is he the new Lethal Protector (sorry, I’ll stop with the self-plugs!) I do apologize for bringing that name up and reminding you all of that story line.
The Beyond Arc as a whole – This arc suffered from the beginning for two reasons: 1. The Nick Spencer ending was so awful, that it left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth, and 2. The Nick Spencer run was so great (aside from the super slow pace and ending) and we felt like we had just gotten Peter Parker back after the dark times (see the VWOTI), that we felt betrayed that he was being taken away from us and replaced with Ben.
That is unfortunate because this was a pretty good story. We had bad memories of previous story by committee arcs, but the Beyond Board did a FANTASTIC job of making sure everyone knew what the others were doing. Each issue flowed smoothly into the next, despite the various writers. The art, for the most part, stayed consistent. The characters stayed true to themselves, even Ben until events forced him out of character (but that was plot-driven and not just to make the plot happen). I could care less about Janine before this, but now I like that character. I hate it for here that she is saddled with Chasm. I was rooting for her. I like how the point of the story was a fight for Ben’s very soul and not just a fight about the Beyond Corporation.
Were there missteps along the way? Sure. But those missteps are things that might would appeal to others. I didn’t particularly care for the Daughters of the Dragon or Photon being a part of this, but I am sure others liked it. It wasn’t so distracting for me. If this had not happened when it did and if they had not led off with how they were sidelining Peter, then I think this whole arc would have been better received and not something long-time fans decided to step out of until the event was over. Which, by the way, saved you guys about $120.
Was It Worth More Than…
At around $120 for the entire Beyond arc run, would I have rather bought those than an almost 3 foot tall plushie bottle of hot sauce? Yeah. I mean, really, who would 1. want to have a giant hot sauce plushie, and 2. be willing to pay that much for a giant bottle of hot sauce plushie? If you have that kind of mad money to throw around, let me send you a link to my PayPal.
However, is it worth more than three bottles of Stan Lee’s Nuff Said cologne? Of course not. Who WOULDN’T want to smell like Stan the Man Lee?
Final Grade
This Issue – almost a smidge higher, but I’m sticking to my guns and giving it a…
B+
The arc as a whole (tie-ins and all)
B-
I know I will probably not be in line with the podcast – make sure to watch them review it this weekend!
Extra Credit
This stinking review is long and I’ve spent way too much time today on it. Plus, Chi-Town keeps bugging me and he keeps messing with my fish tank even though I specifically told him to stop. I’m not going to proof read it. So feel free to earn bonus points by finding all my typos and pointing them out to me in the comments section.
Plus, consider yourself and honors student for making it this far into the review!
What’s Next?
What the heck is wrong with his foot?
WHAT DID SPIDER-MAN DO?!
Peter’s on the outs with the FF. He’s on the outs with the Avengers. He’s on the outs with Aunt May! No one wants to see Spider-Man – except for Doctor Octopus. Ock’s on Spider-Man’s tail and the Master Planner has something truly terrible planned for when he gets his tentacles on Spidey. All that, and what does Tombstone have planned? Just in time for Spider-Man’s 60th Anniversary, a new volume of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN begins, and 2022 is going to be the biggest year for Spider-Man EVER! Don’t believe us? We brought John Romita Jr. back JUST FOR THIS!
OK, guys, Chi-Town will be here to lead you through the new VOLUME 6 issue #1, but don’t worry, I’ll be back for #2. And kudos to editorial for not dragging the Beyond story out for seven extra issues just to end it on a milestone number.
‘Nuff Said!
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1. Rey should have been Han’s previously-unknown daughter, from a brief affair he had years before. It would explain 90% of the clues they were dropping about her. That would have made Rey and Ben’s relationship one of brother and sister.
2. Rey should have turned to the Dark Side, and become that vision of herself. She was an abandoned, abused child, carrying loads of hurt and rage inside her. The two shadows of her in the cave coming together weren’t her parents, they were two conflicting Reys merging into one Shadow Rey. Ben then in a reversal is the one who repents and saves her. They swap places, fulfilling Luke’s warning that it was not going to turn out the way she thinks. Rey doesn’t save Kylo, out of overconfidence and lack of caution she becomes Sith.
3. Snoke should have been Darth Plagues, rescued and harbored by the Chiss Ascendancy. Thus introducing the Chiss, and Thrawn.
4. Rose should have stayed an emblem of SW fans, who begins the film by swooning excessively over “hero” Finn, then hating him excessively for having faults, then evening out and becoming his true comrade at the end (and no kiss).
5. They should have *shown* Luke’s telepathic vision into Ben’s sleeping min d — the bloodshed, screaming, burning, slaughter, a repeat of the massacre of the younglings. Then cut back to Luke with the saber now in his hand (unlit), which he throws down as Ben wakes up and sees him. It would be his instinctive Jedi reaction, but Luke still controls himself.
6. There should have been some technological answer to the Order’s ability to track them through hyperspace. Like, the Republic is able to install scramblers that spew their ships’ signal-trail in all directions, like an electronic stink-bomb that wipes out a scent. Or the ship can stop, in a few short seconds change direction, and re-start, cutting off the trail.
@hornaceck
I don’t think Luke is incapable of mistakes, far from it. Considering killing family members in their sleep is a bit beyond a simple mistake. And Luke is far from the only sin in TLJ, just the biggest. But that’s just my opinion. I did read Dark Empire, but it was a loooong time ago, I remember Luke joining the emperor to “Destroy from within” and getting a little to lost in his role, but not doing anything particularly evil, but I can’t swear to it.
Slott had Spider-Man straight up kill people? I will admit, I experienced a lot of Slott’s run through the Crawlspace, and not first hand, so I’m no expert on the details. So maybe I should hate him more.
@Aqua
I’m usually a middle of the road guy myself, but there are a few franchises that go back to my way early days that i probably care too much about, and Starwars and Spider-Man are probably chief among them.
@Aqua – “to me it’s a saga that ends with the sixth episode” For me, as someone who read all of the Star Wars books that came out describing what happened to these characters after RotJ – who got married, who had kids, who grew, who changed, etc, I wanted more films that would both introduced new characters and tell what happened with the previous characters.
@Dark Mark – Your views of that trilogy is correct and the problem wasn’t with TLJ – it was that they decided to give each film to a different filmmaker/storyteller and told them to do what they wanted didn’t have 1 person overseeing the entire story. It’s like they made TFA and had no idea what was going to happen in the next 2 films – same thing happened with TLJ. Say what you want about Lucas, but he had the stories for both trilogies planned out (more or less) so when he was making the 1st/2nd films in each trilogy he knew what was going to happen in the 3rd. As far each film, TFA was enjoyable but was total fan-service, a carbon copy of Star Wars, and nothing new. TROS felt like too much of course correction and introduced a villain that literally came out of nowhere and a plot that made no sense. TLJ is the only one that said “Oh, you think you know what’s going to happen because TFA was so predictable? Good luck with that.”
@Jack Brooks – “I’m not sure I get why Ben Reilly is allegedly such a hard character to write.” They may say that now, but at the start of the 90s CS all the Spidey writers were saying the opposite. They loved writing Ben (well, not Dan Jurgens, but he was brought on thinking he would be writing Peter) and they were all so excited at the prospect of introducing the character and writing him. But that may have been due to how they had been writing Peter so serious and dark and depressing before then.
@AC – Agree to disagree. I don’t put Luke on a pedestal to think that for one moment he would not consider killing someone that he knew was being corrupted by the dark side and on their way to becoming another Darth Vader, especially when he knows what destruction his own father caused to the galaxy when turned to the dark side (this is the same character that chose to turn to the dark side in Dark Empire – yes, that was a comic book, but it was canon to the novels, which are not canon anymore, but for years they were). The fact that he changes his mind and spends the rest of his life ashamed of that and trying to isolate himself so he doesn’t hurt anyone else speaks volumes. I like my heroes as people that make mistakes and deal with it, not white knights that *never* make mistakes. Worse than Slott? No way. Spidey has made *many* mistakes and has literally killed people – he’s no white knight that never does anything wrong.
@AC
Playing the devil’s advocate (not that they deserve it!), if I’m not mistaken almost everything from the expanded universe is not canon anymore since Disney bought the franchise, but you do have a point with the redemption of Darth Vader.
I think any sane person would want to sweep under the rug and forget the last trilogy. But I wouldn’t bet my money on it, because I know there are some hardcore fans out there.
Funny, just the other day I wrote a couple of comments somewhere else about how I generally don’t like to term myself a “fan” of something, exactly because I see myself as being more moderate in behaviour.
@Evan
LOL Because he had a patch on one eye, obviously!
I always wondered why MCU Spider-man, though clearly a big fan of Star Wars, didn’t recognize Mace Windu when he met Nick Fury.
I respect your opinion, and I’m willing to admit a casual fan could have a different opinion. I’m sure, because we’re all hardcore Spider-Man fans here, that we have complained about things the casual fan or movie goer would be like, “what’s the big deal?” But as a hardcore Starwars fan that grew up with the movies, read the novels, the comics, etc, could believe that Luke Skywalker, the embodiment of hope, the one man who felt good in the most evil villain in history enough to turn him back to the good side, could ever, ever, for even one second, could go, oh shucks, my nephew is evil, better go kill him while he is sleeping. Nothing Luke Skywalker does in that movie feels at all in sync with the guy we saw at the end of ROTJ. Can’t buy any of it without a damn good explanation, and the movies give nothing.
As for ROS being a mess, totally agree. The whole sequel trilogy is a mess, I try to pretend it didn’t happen.
and to bring it back to Spider-Man, I tried to do the same thing with the clone saga. I actually liked it, and liked Ben, during the first part of the clone saga, and do agree with what someone else said that back then, he did feel like a distinct different character. But then they tried to replace my Spider-Man with him, and yea, it’s petty, and yea it was 20 odd years ago, but I’ve held it against Ben the character ever since. I’m a fan. Nobody said fans have to be reasonable. That’s why fan is short for fanatic….
@AC
From a common guy standpoint, one who just appreciated Star Wars I to VI, I didn’t find hard to believe Luke could have a moment of weakness and doubt. I don’t feel that his character was so fleshed out in the original trilogy to exclude this or that he could end up as a grumpy old man.
Also, I’ve seen B-movies that were better than the mess that was TRoS: the scene where an ancient Sith relic, needed to find the way to their planet, has the shape of a landscape with a half-destroyed Death Star was risible and senseless.
If you really want to watch one if not THE worst movie of all time, try the Italian movie “They talk”. I had my first hysterical attack after that.
Then again, I didn’t like No Way Home as much as apparently everyone else, so maybe my movie tastes are just different.
Okay, I know this isn’t Spider-Man, but it must be addressed. TLJ isn’t just the worst Starwars movie, it is the worst movie of all time, period. To put in Spider-Man terms, imagine someone writing a comic where Spider-Man tried to murder a child while they were sleeping because he was afraid he MIGHT turn evil. The character assassination of Luke in that movie was worse than anything Slott ever did, and that is saying a lot.
As for the new arc, I will read it to start, but I have a very bad feeling about it. I haven’t read much of the current arc, but i’ve faithfully followed the reviews, so thanks Mark (and Chi-Town) for doing it for me.
I’m not sure I get why Ben Reilly is allegedly such a hard character to write. I’m old enough to have read the original Clone Saga at the time. The picture you got of Ben was as if Peter had grown up on the streets or in foster-care. Then throw in some rootlessness, a la 1960s series like “Then Came Bronson” (I know, that really dates me), or Bill Bixby’s version of Bruce Banner. Kaine was brutal, Ben was a trickster. Kaine was a killer, Ben could be a thief. More of a rascal than a bad-guy. Kaine was Peter-as-Frankenstein, Ben was Peter as Artful-Dodger. I’m not saying I could write a script, but I’ve got a pretty clear vision for Ben, and I feel it comes from the original Saga.
@Hornacek – Dude, I try real hard to support everyone’s takes since art is subjective, but your stance on TLJ, well… I just can’t morally condone that. TFA was pretty good, TLJ spent the entire movie undoing it, and TROS spent the whole time undoing TLJ. All in all, the sequels were a mess. Maybe we can find a common ground there. If not, I’ll let you go back to berating me for not enjoying Shawshank.
CYOA – Now that I can get behind! My childhood reading of this can be summed up with:
*turns to page 63* *sees THE END* *quickly turns to page 104*
Don’t get me wrong, I like variety and it’s exactly what makes those books interesting. But as a child, knowing that being the cautious and sensible person I am would get me no dinosaur adventure didn’t sit well with me.
I’ll try to avoid involving myself in the conflict that is being a Star Wars fan today, saying just this:
time has definitely shown that TLJ is the best of the new trilogy films.
Not that it was hard to be.
And this: as one who just likes Star Wars (i.e. not strictly a fan), to me it’s a saga that ends with the sixth episode. Plus one spin-off movie (I’ll let you guess which one), at most.
@Aqu
“I don’t know what George says, but even if I hadn’t watched the movie, I don’t see why I should listen to him. :p” He *hates The Last Jedi, and because of that won’t watch any Riann Johnson film (even though Looper and Knives Out are both awesome). And time has definitely shown that TLJ is the best of the new trilogy films.
“That’s exactly what I didn’t like when I was little. I remember having this JP The Lost World book and I always ended up dead or not leaving for the adventure at all, unless I made some really stupid choice. I mean, for a book which advertises “have your own adventure”, it was pretty upsetting that I wouldn’t have an adventure at all if I chose being true to myself.” That’s what I liked about the CYOA books (and its knock-offs) – not every ending got you to the exact same place in the story. Based on your choices you might not make it very far into the story, or not at all. I wouldn’t have enjoyed them if every ending was the same and they were all positive. I liked the variety of the endings.
@Mark
So it seems I didn’t understand a thing about the polls. I must have misinterpreted some comments which led me to think there was an interactive poll. Oh well.
Good thing, then, that I don’t use Discord!
On your Cobwebs articles, sometimes I read them, but don’t comment unless I have something worth saying.
The only thing I can add is, and this is hard since I like your reviews, just do what you like to do. It’s not good for you to do something if it has become a burden. Unless you’re paid very well, that is. 😉
@Evan
Well, to me not even refreshing the page works sometimes. To be more precise, if I refresh the homepage and there’s nothing new there, the comments on the right won’t update, but if I do it in the comment section of an article, it will show new comments. It’s been this way since the last major website update.
@hornacek
I don’t know what George says, but even if I hadn’t watched the movie, I don’t see why I should listen to him. :p
“there were just as many endings where you (the reader) ended up dead.”
That’s exactly what I didn’t like when I was little. I remember having this JP The Lost World book and I always ended up dead or not leaving for the adventure at all, unless I made some really stupid choice. I mean, for a book which advertises “have your own adventure”, it was pretty upsetting that I wouldn’t have an adventure at all if I chose being true to myself.
@Evan – I didn’t remember that drawing but when I saw it, it took me right back. I loved the CYOA books (and the Which Way? books) because they could be pretty dark for kids books – there were just as many endings where you (the reader) ended up dead.
@hornacek — Wow, I didn’t even catch the groundskeeper’s name in Knives Out. I remember that particular Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book for many reasons, but one of them was that the illustration on page 113 (I think — also, spoiler! 🙂 depicts the hero getting shot point blank in the chest by the villain, and that used to frighten me as a kid. A friend of mine found a copy of that book and sent it to me as a gift a few years ago, and I flipped right to that page and had a laugh.
I just found the image online, if you’re curious:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxtupduWfY1rnofaco1_500.jpg
@Evan – I remember that CYOA title! From Knives Out’s IMDB Trivia page:
“At least two character names appear to be homages to ‘Who Killed Harlowe Thrombey?’, an early entry in the popular ‘Choose Your Own Adventure’ children’s book series of the 1970s and 80s: The film’s deceased patriarch, Harlan Thrombey, and elderly groundskeeper Proofroc (an inept detective named Prufrock is a secondary character in the book). The book, like the film, centers around the death of a wealthy man whose extended family are all potential suspects in his demise.”
I’d just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Knives Out is awesome and everyone should watch it (no matter what George says).
@Dark Mark
Oh, I’ve still been reading the books and even reading these reviews, there just wasn’t much worth commenting on. Nothing truly amazing to praise, and nothing truly horrible messing up continuity to complain about.
I suspect other people may have felt the same.
There was just no need to passionately discuss the issues in this arc. I did like the overall story, but each issue by itself lacked the big moments that I would’ve felt the need to weigh in on.
The interesting stuff really involved either Ben or Beyond, and you couldn’t really comment on the overall story until it was complete. I liked Doc Ock’s return to semi-villain, I felt there was a good reason behind that, but I didn’t care about the U-Foes, I didn’t care about Morbius, I didn’t care about Rhizome, I didn’t care about Creature Z and nothing special was done with Kraven-87.
I did and do like Ashley Kafka’s transformation into the Queen Goblin, but that felt like setup, rather than an actual story. They ultimately didn’t do much with her, and I suspect she will be appearing facing off against Peter at a later date.
Overall, the Beyond arc lacked substance for the most part. There was a good story there, if a slightly padded one, and not every story needs to be so controversial or revolutionary that it provokes strong feelings. After the Kindred arc, it actually felt good to take something of a breather, so saying that I didn’t feel the need to weigh in isn’t actually a criticism.
But, yeah, I just don’t think this was the kinda arc which was ever going to generate that much discussion. It was good, but ultimately forgettable.
@Mark — That page refresh worked! Thanks, Mark. Maybe it’s one of the idiosyncrasies of the host or something. I’ve definitely clicked around, gone back home, and returned to your reviews and other pages to no avail, but I’ve never simply clicked the refresh button per se. I feel kind of dumb, but at least now I know — and knowing is half the battle.®
For what it’s worth, I appreciate your Cobwebs articles, and your quizzes, too — though I don’t often do very well on them.
Thanks for your advice on not reading too much into Chi-Town’s remarks, but, with all due respect, that’s exactly what a Hydra agent would say.
@hornacek — Regarding Choose Your Own Adventure Books, I just want to say that my favorite one was a murder mystery called Who Killed Harlowe Thrombey?, and I was amazed when I watched Knives Out that that was the name of the character who gets killed in that movie. I guess Rian Johnson was a fan of it, too. At first I wondered how they could get away with blatantly using that name, but I guess it’s supposed to be a “love letter” or tribute of sorts to murder mysteries.
@Aqu@ and @Evan
New comments were not showing for me either until I refreshed the page. That’s odd. I only knew to look because I got the email saying there were new comments.
The poll isn’t being blocked by your ad blocker, Aqu@, I just haven’t been doing them with many of these issues. I was curious to see if anyone really cared one way or the other about that feature. For instance I once left off the OOTI and immediately heard from people (probably all aliases of Evan’s), so I kept it in. I was being lazy with the reviews. Like I said in an earlier comment, I’ve been a bit burned out on reviews. Oddly enough, Chi-Town talked me out of hanging up the Crawlspace keyboard. Evan often mentions the back and forth on the comments here as being worth coming to the front page and I agree. Without the comments, I don’t know I would still be writing reviews. I like talking with you guys about the books more than I like reading them. This past arc made a lot of people just not comment as much as they were not reading it. I don’t blame them, things are what they are. I do hope people start to pick up the book again with this new take. Plus Discord probably siphons off some of the front page discussion as well. I love writing the Cobwebs articles more than the reviews, but people don’t comment so much on those and they take a long time to put together. Oh, and good point about Marcus knowing Peter’s identity.
I’m in complete agreement with you, Evan, on which OOTI should win, but the people have spoken. SQURSH wins the poll, as disgusting a sound as it is. And don’t read too much into Chi-Town’s minions remark. He rarely knows what he is talking about. I just nod along most of the time to keep him from getting all buggy on me.
@Mark — Today’s the first day any of the comments above my own appeared. Just like Aqu@, I’m delayed, too.
Sorry to have interrupted your vacation with more editing work. Mark. Please don’t send your Hydra minions after me.
I’m not sure if I’ll pick the book up just yet or not, but I can promise you I will keep reading your reviews — As you know, the reviews and comments and conversations are oftentimes far more entertaining than the books themselves. To think I could have bought a giant hot sauce plushie with all the money I saved. Instead, I think that money went towards ice cream — the non-plushie kind. (Maybe I can use it distract your Hydra minions.)
Also, I forgot to mention that I love that the writers were astute enough to allow us, the readers, to glean insight into the divergence of Ben and Peter’s characters, as indicated by the two different ways they pronounce “GYAAARGHH!”
By the way, here is my assessment of the OOTI candidates:
SSSHZZZARRKKK! — To me, this is the winner because, not only is it the most fun to say, but it has an exclamation mark, so it’s clearly the loudest.
VSSt — The lowercase T confuses me, since I’m not sure how the sound is affected by it, so points must be deducted for ambiguity. (On the other hand “BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB” is sort of as ambiguous as you can get.)
SPRK — Subtle enough to be excluded from the poll, yet undeniable in its sprkiness. Still, I’m not sure what is actually making that sound. It looks like the same source as the “VSSt,” but I’m not sure. If it is the same source, why are the sounds different?
SQURSH — Bonus consideration for a “QU” sound with no extra vowel after it (showing both conciseness and parsimony), but that one’s just disgusting.
So, with just a week of delay, here’s my reply:
@Mark
I didn’t realize there was a poll. In fact, I remember there used to be polls for grading the issue, but it’s been a long while since I saw one of those, so it’s probably my adblocker. Well, doesn’t matter, I practically voted with my comment.
Marcus does know Peter’s identity: not only did he see Peter unmasked when he saves him, but he also visited in the hospital at the end.
” I think that is why I can enjoy the DCU better than most comic book fans.” LOL so true. But it also depends on them making good stories, which I doubt they are from what I pick here and there from news (I don’t read any DC title, so I can’t be sure).
@Paul Penna and @Chi-Town
Paul Penna – It sound slike you and I are perfectly in tune with our take on the issue and arc. I very much dislike the Chasm name and look, but maybe once we see the effects of the psycho-reactive goo, we’ll like it better.
Speaking of Kaine, does anyone know where he his currently and what he is doing?
Chi-Town – Yeah, those Hydra minions of mine are pretty annoying from time to time. Don’t worry, those, it’s just a Z-Quil pill.
I imagine I could enjoy this arc better because I am NOT a big Reilly fan. I can’t see myself liking it if they did that to Peter or someone I have a vested interest in. I think that is why I can enjoy the DCU better than most comic book fans.
I wouldn’t say that Ben is a Dark Spider-Man as he has had all of his memories erased, so he will just be a man with spider-powers. A dark side of Spider-Man, I feel, would have a twisted sense of responsibility – somehow turning Uncle Ben’s death into something it shouldn’t be. But you may be right and that may be where they are gong with this. What do you think the odds are that Ben will be somewhat restored before Zeb leaves the title?
I usually avoid the solicits (except for what I put at the end of the review), so I don’t know about what it says about MJ and Peter. I am hoping that the Zeb Wells that wrote Peter and MJ bonding will be the same Zeb Wells writing this next arc. I like Franz29’s idea that the trail of blood actually is leading to MJ. Whatever the case, while I do want Peter restored with Aunt May and MJ (if you are right), I do hope he stays on the outs with the rest of the superhero community.
Say my name and I magically appear. Nice review Mark, bout time you provided one..
I gotta say that is the last time I ever go and visit you. When I knocked on your front door, not only did I received the biggest (and unwelcomed) bear hug for you, it’s when you started cooking all your home cooked meals and wanted me to eat them. I felt so stuffed and sick afterwards, I had to leave. The kicker is when you suggested I rent a cabin in the Smokey Mountains for the rest of my vacation, so I took that suggestion just to get away from your “southern hospitality”.
Imagine the surprise I got when the brave men and women of the fire department came knocking on my cabin door at 3am because of the Wears Valley Fire & I had to evacuate. Finally I integrated a shady character then kept following me and all he said before swallowing a pill that ended his life was “Always cites his sources, Hail Hydra!”
I’m onto you now Alford.
As far as the issue goes, all I gotta say is how mad are Reilly fans right now? I mean this character goes beyond character assignation right now. Do we have a “Dark Spider-Man” now or something new? I mean even the die hard Reilly fans have to be agitated. Good to see Peter and MJ moving in together, only it’s “said to be ruined” by the cliffhanger and solic for ASM #2, hoping that’s not the case.
Ben as an antagonist I’m fine with. And I say antagonist, not villain, because there is more than one way you can fill the role of an antagonist. Wiping his memories? That’s kinda interesting. You can take Ben on a journey where he rediscovers what it means to be Peter Parker and Spider-Man.
Chasm – the new powers and design. Hate it. It is ugly.
I wouldn’t preferred him to still be going by the name Spider-Man and making Peter’s life difficult in that identity. The only good thing I can say is that he’s not going back to being the Scarlet Spider, because that is a role that Ben has outgrown, and it leaves Kaine able to fill that role (if they choose to use Kaine). For Kaine, being the Scarlet Spider is an act of redemption, it is aspirational. For Ben to be the Scarlet Spider is a step back, it was the identity he used before he became Spider-Man and died a hero as Spider-Man. Ben Reilly should not be Scarlet Spider again. But I really don’t like the Chasm identity either.
I’d much rather Ben had clung onto the Spider-Man role, and Peter started getting blamed when Ben was acting irresponsibly. Or for Ben to give up on super heroics all together, to choose just to be Ben Reilly and settle down with Janine. However, hopefully his role as Chasm will play out, be resolved, and they can move that character onto better things.
Overall I actually enjoyed the Beyond arc, even the final issue, I just didn’t enjoy where they left Ben at the very end of the story. Maybe they can change my mind in future issues, we’ll see.
@Sthenurus and @Hornacek
Sthenurus – I would love a book like that!
Hornacek – Well, now I’m going to have to find that Hyperspace book. And no shade meant toward CYOA. I love those books. I just wanted to plug my interactive Cobwelbs article. 🙂
So, question for everyone who dropped the book when the Beyond arc started. Are you coming back for vol. 6 #1?
“the Choose Your Own Adventure books of long ago, which were not quite as famous as the Marvel Spider-Man game book which was in second person”
How dare you! The CYOA books were classics. “You Are A Shark” – I mean, come on!
Also, the “Hyperspace” book blew my mind as kid, where in that book you were a person reading a CYOA book – it was completely self-aware, demolishing the 4th wall – it blew my young mind.
Yeah I agree with all of you. The letter was unprofessional and really not necessary. He basically says that they did an entire arc about a character they don’t care about and have no clue how to handle. Good job marvel.
Especially since it was easy for them to come up with a good ending. Have Ben being completely reset to just before his death at Norman’s hand. Now you have your single, down on his luck spiderman going around and we can get Peter and MJ back in ASM. And it’s not like marvel has a problem with having a bunch of different spider-men running around and sharing the name (and having ongoing titles)…
I’d kill for a double feature book of Ben on the road with Janine and Kaine doing his thing. Kinda like they did with web of vol 2, where one half was about Peter and the second half about Mayday.
@Franz29 and @Ryan
Franz29 – Ah! The being there for MJ? Nice thinking! I hope that is the case. It would make sense why Peter would go against everyone else. What would he not do to save MJ? That certainly has merit.
About the odd letter from Nick Lowe – it doesn’t make sense. He is saying that they are taking Ben off the spider-landscape, but as Micheal’s link shows us, they fully intend to keep using Ben as Chasm. That is not taking him off the landscape. I do agree that there is room for Ben and Kaine to have their own adventures. I know that goes against many of the other contributors here and on the podcast, but my viewpoint is that there is no problem with Ghost-Spider, Miles, 2099, Ben, Kaine, May Day, and any other spider-types out there as long as they have their own stories and let me enjoy Peter’s story. I loved the old Kaine story where he was in Houston. I enjoyed Peter David’s Ben story for the most part. Wouldn’t even mind a return of the Spider-Family book that was a collection of spider-stories where they weren’t interacting with each other, they just have their own stories and share a book together.
The brain machine – well, Ben’s spider-sense might not go off because if it is part of the technology that he was using before, then he may be too accustomed to it. As for Peter, well, I don’t know. Earlier they were saying that his spider-sense was mostly gone or at least weaker, but I don’t know if that was supposed to be resolved in that issue or not (I found that issue rather confusing at times, probably my fault for not focusing enough). Maybe just because everything about the situation was causing it to go off, so he was ignoring it? Whatever the case, we shouldn’t have to do the work to figure it out.
I think I scored this one higher than many is because I don’t particularly care one way or the other about Ben. I didn’t like how they left him here, but his fate is not as important to me as Peter coming back and his staying in character. I liked the fight scenes, was pleased that there wasn’t too many distractions from Peter and Ben, and for the most part enjoyed the comic. But I certainly see where people who were really hoping for a great Ben redemption story would be let down. We do know this – Zeb Wells came up with the Chasm bit and he is still writing the next arc, so maybe he has a plan to resolve it and we just didn’t get there yet.
Ryan – Thanks, buddy!
Nicely reviewed. Hit all the main points on the story and grading was fair.
Solid review. You scored it higher than me, but I’m invested in Ben so hated the ending. Can’t say I blame you for skipping the .BEY issue; total waste of paper and money.
The editorial letter from Lowe was unprofessional and unneeded. You don’t like a character? Fine, You can’t think of what to do with them? Fine. You just don’t use them. Leave them in the box for someone that does have an idea.
Now Ben is “Chasm”. All power, no responsibility. How is he different from Kaine? Not watching? Now he’s still a redundant character, just for someone else.
I think both Ben and Kaine have potential for minis, not on goings. One is Ben on the road (a la the incredible Hulk show) and the other is Kaine as the anti hero. Bring them out when the ideas are there and promote the books. Leave Peter as Spider-Man and carry on.
I did have one issue with the brain machine. Maxine heavily hints (if not explicitly states, I can’t remember) that it would kill both Spiders so wouldn’t their Spider-Sense be going off? Ben ignoring it, maybe, he’s desperate, but nothing from Peter. Would have made Peter trashing it seem more logical rather than just to be an ass to Ben.
I think at the end, ben and Janine are together. He won’t leave, she’s his last remaining touch stone. Can Ben recover? Of course, it’s comics but I won’t hold my breath.
As for the golden man – anyone else think he’s there for Mary Jane not Peter? It was all very vague, and I think that’s on purpose.
@Michael – I was hoping that this was just a sick April Fool’s joke on your part, but no, sadly it’s true.
Apparently, Ben IS going to become a major foe of Peter’s:
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/spider-man-ben-reilly-end-his-future-chasm-begins
@Evan – I think you missed the part where I said I am on vacation. If I’m not going to go through and search for my own typos, I’m surely not going to go and correct anyone else’s! Plus, research papers start up next week. I’ll have more than enough to grammar mistakes to look at soon enough.
Do I remember correctly and you had stopped reading during this Beyond arc? If so, are you jumping back on with the next issue?
@Mark — For extra, extra credit, please feel free to correct the typos in my list of corrections to your typos. I see a couple, but I’ve done enough.
@Evan and @Aqu@
Evan – Well, I asked for it. I was so tired, and I really wanted to go watch Moon Knight! This is how it must feel to be Chi-Town… 🙂 Extra credit well earned. To the head of the class, Evan! I had half-thought that I would go through and correct the mistakes pointed out to me, but I made a lot, and I am lazy, and I am on vacation, so I guess I will let it stand as a mark of my shame.
*insert “I do not like the cone of shame” gif here*
Aqu@ – Thanks for the kind words! The whole dropping the .bey was completely my bad. I no longer have Comixology, so I’m not getting the reminders. I thought it was coming out the following week and so I just went along with my day. Then, on Friday, Chi-Town starts in on me for not posting a review yet. I read it during my lunch break and decided that I wasn’t going to spend a few hours writing up a review for that ASM-in-name-only issue. Of course, that only made Chi-Town more persistent until he realized HE couldn’t fulfill his obligation for the next issue, so he became all humble-like and asked me to do it.
I had fun writing this review and that is not something I have been feeling for most of this run. I don’t think it is the run’s fault, since I have enjoyed a large portion of this arc, but it wasn’t exciting me to see what comes next. I am excited to see this next volume and see what it is that makes Peter on the outs with everyone. I did notice that while it mentioned that all the heroes were mad at him and so was Aunt May, it did NOT mention MJ, so maybe she stays by him or something happened to him? Whatever the case, I am really hoping that if the other heroes are against him, we will see him stomp all of their collective butts like he used to in days of old. Zeb Wells seems like he understands the character pretty well based on Peter’s treatment in the issues he was in for Ben’s arc, so hopefully we can get some good stories going. Plus, Wells seems to pace it a little faster and tighter than Spencer, so there is that. I’m willing to put Shed behind me if he can go forward like this.
I thought Lowe’s comments were odd too. I have expected to hear him say HE was stepping off the title, but instead we got that Ben comment. If the point was to give Ben a send off, then I guess they failed since they not only left it open that Ben is still around, but they flat out showed us he was still around.
If I were deciding the OOTI, I would have gone with SSSHZZZZARRKKK, but it seems the masses agree with you, at least by the current poll standings.
I doubt Marcus put it together. He’s a smart guy, but he is gullible enough to take things at face value. Maxine knew Peter’s identity all along. I know we don’t have solid proof, but we do have proof that she was listening in on his meetings with Kafka, could view his memories, and knew he was a clone before ever contacting Ben. She knew. It just wasn’t worth her time to do anything about it until the end, and by that time, she had other things to deal with first. Plus, if she could get Ben to kill him/erase his memories, then the problem was solved there too.
The infantizer! There used to be a comic called What The…? and a story where Ben was made into an infant and Peter and MJ had to take care of him would be perfect for it!
As usual the review is the best part of reading ASM!
I wondered in fact where the .bey review was, but the wait was worth it!
I’ll try to not lament Chi-Town’s absence much, promise.
The end of Ben was a bit questionable. I agree with Sthenurus about how he always dies; he is often disrespected as a character. At least, this time, we can say this isn’t Ben anymore, due to the quantum psycho-mumbo-jumbo that altered him. In fact I wonder what his powers are now.
Anyway, Ben Reilly, Peter’s clone, is definitely dead. Let’s hope he stays this way, for his sake.
And I hope (but doubt) he left Janine for good, for her own sake.
Fun fact about Bagley’s art: in the last panel we see a face close-up, I was sure it was Eddie Brock, even if it makes no sense.
For the OOTI there’s no contest: Sqursh is the obvious winner. That’s the sound when you put on a mask you barfed in minutes before.
Lowe’s comment is heavily unprofessional: “Ben is an incredible character who really didn’t have a place in the Spider-landscape anymore.” Not only this is the kind of opinion that should stay within office’s walls and definitely not be said to fans, but to find a meaning to these characters is literally their work! It’s also a bit hypocritical considering the plethora of Spider-characters there was (and partially still is) not long ago at the same time on the same Earth. First they push for a Spider-verse, then they use the excuse “there are too many” to poop on an already mistreated character. If you don’t know how to use a character, leave it alone for future writers: it’s not like there isn’t Kaine still somewhere out there doing who knows what.
Then adding they took the chance to do a rarely-done “tragedy” got me thinking: does he know Ben’s history? From dying not long after returning on the scene as Spider-man, to being tortured (to death) into a villainous madness, to being rendered soulless, his entire editorial history has been tragic. This chapter is only adding fuel to the fire.
Sorry for the rant, but Nick Lowe’s comment really infuriated me (and I don’t even consider myself a fan of Ben more than I am of Peter).
I agree this arc has been presented badly, jeopardizing what would have been a fun read (except for Ben’s fate).
“Who WOULDN’T want to smell like Stan the Man Lee?”
I don’t know, these days The Man surely isn’t smelling great…
If you hadn’t specified, seeing so many typos I would have thought you forced Chi-Town into writing this review!
I wanted to point out only ” Ben reveals that he is quite insane and is not going by the name…”, because it changes the meaning of the sentence. However Evan beat me to it while I was writing this wall of text, so… I’ll settle for the one he didn’t get: “consider yourself and honors student”.
Hobie calls Ben by his name when they face, so does he know his identity (and therefore Peter’s) or just his first name?
Speaking of which, if I were Peter Parker I would be very worried by the amount of people knowing Ben’s and his identity at the end of this: Marcus, Maxine Danger, probably a lot of people who worked at Beyond… The writers have been very sloppy on this.
Wouldn’t have been funny if the fight between Spiders ended with Ben shot by the Infantilizer? So much story potential gone to waste.
@Mark — Because you said to feel free (and because I have a lot of extra credit to make up for) here are your list of typos, as requested. It probably isn’t exhaustive, because I didn’t want to alter your voice too much, and I think there should be some leeway permitted in that regard:
1. “I’m about to read it myself and then I’ll share my thoughts below!” – Comma required after “myself.”
2. “Ben has had all his memories of his life as Peter Parker erased and he is desperate to get them back.” – Comma required after “erased.”
3. “…not to keep back ups of his memory…” – “backups” or “back-ups” is acceptable
4. After Ben and Peter fight for several pages, the super-really-sketchy memory helmet crumbles and Ben, in desperation – Comma technically required after “crumbles,” and I’d remove the comma after “Ben” for clarity. Otherwise you’d have to add another after “desperation,” which is awkward.
5. “Ben reveals that he is quite insane and is not going by the name…” – “not” should read “now”
6. “…maybe the psycho reactive goo…” — “psycho-reactive,” as you typed above.
7. “…Peter Parker anyday.” – “any day”
8. “…a way to kill Ben that wasn’t mention in…” – “mentioned”
9. “…I don’t remember psycho reactive goo being on the list).” – “psych-reactive,” as in #6 above.
10. “This doctor vs Aunt May show down” – “showdown”
11. “PASS – Psycho Reactive Goo Spelling” – “Psycho-reactive,” as in #6 and #9 above.
12. “Just thought it was an interesting touch” – Period after “touch” required
13. No filler – this is an extra long issue and there – Capital “T” in “This,” hyphen after extra (“extra-long”), and comma after issue required.
14. “…fights on a Monster Bug Wars documentary or…” — Comma required after “or”
15. “… but it was too and Brad has a strict…” — Word missing after “too”
16. – “I feel that him asking Peter…” – “him” should be “his”
17. “I enjoyed them taking away Ben’s memories…” – “them” should be “their”
18. “…for a satellite title out this…” – “of” after out
19. “…Ben Reilly the Spectacular Spider-Man where…” – comma required after Spider-man
20. “…not New York and he and Janine…” – Comma required after “York”
21. “Did he leave Janine completely or…” — Comma required after “completely”
22.”… was so awful, that…” – Remove comma
23. “…bad memories of previous story…” – “story” should be “stories”
24. “The characters stayed true to themselves, even Ben until…” – Comma required after “Ben”
25. “I could care less about Janine before this…” – “could” should read “couldn’t”
26. “I hate it for here that she…” – “here” should read “her”
27. “…almost three foot tall…” – Insert hyphens “three-foot-tall”
28. “…Stan the Man Lee?” – Should read “Stand ‘The Man’ Lee”
29. “…with the podcast – make sure to watch them review it this weekend!” Period after “podcast” required. Capitalize “M” in “Make”
30. “This stinking review is long and…” — Comma required after “long”
@Sthenurus, @Michael, and @David Blythe
Sthenurus – Don’t count on it getting reverted anytime soon. According to Nick Lowe in the letters pages, the whole point was to get Ben out of the Spider-Verse for a while. I do think there was potential there to create in him a new hero. No Parker memories. No Parker sense of responsibility. No science background (so no Spider-Man web shooting). Take this spider-powered hero concept into a new direction. Ben and Janine off somewhere else. Maybe on the run from Beyond bounty hunters or something. Maybe just starting over anew in North Dakota. Oh well. Maybe Chasm will be more than just a weird villain guy. I do think the Beyond Board writing team had the intention of giving Ben the respect they felt he deserves and wanted to send him out better than a Jackal villain. When the robotic spiders covered him right before the goo did, I thought that was going to be how they pulled it off. He was safe, Peter thought he was dead, and Ben and Janine slip away in the night.
Michael – For some reason, I didn’t have a problem with Beyond not going down nor with Maxine getting away. Aside from the absolute ridiculous sandwich monsters and warehouse of stupid looking villains, I had the feeling that Beyond was a much larger entity with Maxine only being a small part. They existed long before her and will continue on long after her. The best Ben and Peter could ever do would be to shut her end down, which they did. I like Maxine Danger and so with her escaping, I look forward to what she decides to do next. Maybe get a job at Roxxon producing more Hellbomb type villains? The story was always about Ben and Peter, so it accomplished that. My biggest concern going into this was that it would basically undo everything Spencer set up with Peter’s character, but it seems as if they just wanted to strengthen that in the small bits we saw Peter and MJ. They could have taken the path of MJ and Black Cat being jealous of each other, but they didn’t. All in all, I enjoyed the arc for the most part. That said, if I wasn’t reviewing the issues, I was so jaded at the end of Spencer’s run and I probably would have cancelled my subscription and maybe just read it three months late on Marvel Unlimited. I don’t think we are to assume that anything Maxine told Ben at the end was true. She lies. I think she knows exactly who Peter Parker is, and that may come back later if she decides to try and blackmail him to get him to work for her as she starts her new journey. I am sure that the helmet would not have helped Ben, only hurt Peter.
David – If you think we shill for Marvel here, you aren’t paying attention. When we like something, we like it and point it out. When we hate something, we hate it and point it out. I have a different opinion on most things than a good portion of the rest of the crew here. There is plenty to not like and to like in all of these issue going back to Amazing Fantasy #15 and NONE of it is objective. Literature is always subjective. That’s its nature. If you didn’t enjoy the issue, that is fine with me. By all means, come on here and express your disappointment in the issue. Explain why you didn’t like it. But to call me a shill is just weak rhetoric and you should really find a better way of expressing yourself.
Beyond was an objective flop, really disappointed in it getting shilled hard here.
I didn’t like this issue as much as you. Part of it is the pure artificiality of what happened to Ben. Ben has this happen to him because Maxine ambushed him and Kafka and tried to erase his memories. And part of it is that Peter and Ben don’t accomplish anything. Maxine gets away, the Beyond Board isn’t captured and Kafka isn’t restored to her usual self. It’s implied that Monica and Aaron Stack seriously damaged Beyond’s operations in the BEY Issue but that’s the point- they’re not in this arc except for that issue.
Are we supposed to believe that Maxine was telling the truth about Ben and Kafka not wanting Ben’s memories recorded because it would compromise Peter’s identity? Because if she was, that’s idiotic. Maxine saw Ben unmasked! She’d have to be an idiot not to work out that Peter was Spider-Man if she ever saw a picture of Peter.
No. No,no,no,no,no. NO!!! For f**k sake! Why can’t we have a Ben Reilly story that doesn’t end with him dead (either physically or metaphorically).
I love this arc (except the ending) and I hope the whole chasm thing will be reverted soon. Peter is proven to be the true spiderman through himself and Ben. That even when you remove the memories, the decency is still there, underneath it all.
Sigh. Such a shame we won’t get a Ben and Janine story, of them riding off in the sunset and trying to discover themselves. That would have been sensational.