Wallopp’n Websnappers! Dr. Strange’s extend conversation with Mephisto comes into play! Peter and MJ head to the opening premier to her new movie “Down in Flames, Up in Smoke”. Of course the previews steal the spotlight as the Savage Six prove that you don’t need 3D glasses to be “apart of the show.”.
That Savage Six want to kill Mary Jane that night!
The Sinister Six shows up and wants to kidnap Mary Jane that night!
Peter wants to propose to Mary Jane that night!
Wow…and the Crawlspace Staff tells me I’M obsessed with that character??!
Spidey does all he can (
)..kinda, to protect the woman he loves, but it’s all for not as Mysterio ()absconded her away in a cloud of green smoke. Doc Ock pulls a K.O. on Spidey. Later, he awakens and is shoved into the hall of mirrors by Kindred. The party really starts when Casino Royal, Superior Foes, and Sinister Syndicate show up!
What happens next? Where did Mary Jane go? Will Dr. Strange find a loophole in a game of chance to “void out” the deal in OMD?! Let’s dive in Crawlpacers and see what kind of answers we’ll get, right here on the Spider-Man Crawlspace!!!
Required Reading
Before you move on, here are the links to the previous written reviews of Sinister War!
The Chi-Town Breakdown:Prelude: Amazing Spider-Man #871
Alford’s Notes: Sinister War #1
Want to go further back? How Mary Jane got a part in Mysterio’s Movie?
Alford’s Notes: Amazing Spider-Man #826
The Bogenrieder Perspective: Amazing Spider-Man #826
Then OF COURSE there’s the journey they took to complete this film
The Chi-Town Breakdown: The Amazing Mary Jane #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, Soft Canceling
(Writer) Nick Spencer
(Artist) Federico Vicentini w/Federico Sabbatini
(Colorist) Alex Sinclair
(Letterer) VC’s Joe Caramagna
(Editor) Nick Lowe
(EIC) C.B. Cebulski
Date Released 7/28/2021
Issue Number #872
Price Tag: $3.99
Voice of Mary Jane: Nicole Bandit
For a different perspective:
Alford’s Notes and Read’s Reads
Story: So Kindred is giving the classic villain “You made me!” speech as Peter fights the Sinister Six. Mysterio has MJ change clothes and takes her to where it all began and for the sake of continuity, confirms the theory that Kindred brought him back during the events that took place in FNSM (Vol 1) #11-13. Norman wakes up with a splitting headache and according to a business card, heads to see attorney at law Drake Kennard. Apparently Mendel Stromm left Norman a key in his will. A quick airplane showing panel later, Norman arrives at what appears to be his estate in Europe. MJ recognizes where Mysterio took her, the shrink office she went to after Gwen died. Apparently there was a sequel, when Harry died, only this time the therapist was played by none other than Ludwig Rineheart, aka Mysterio! Carlie has had enough waiting around and after some boring monologue from Lyman, the cell door opens. Kindred reminisces about old times, while sitting in the ambulance that he actually died in. Mysterio exits explaining that his big scene is approaching and that they all have a part to play. That’s when Kindred appears and wraps a centipede tentacle wraps around MJ, shocked and struggling to break free she watches in horror as Kindred pulls her closer giving her the part he designed for her in this story, the damsel in distress!
The Breakdown
- The Biggest Sin
- Scattered Pictures
- Norman’s Key
- Hiding in the Shadows
- Nitpicks
- Grade
The Biggest Sin: So now we know that Kindred got straight to work after the events happened in Civil War! Nice touch with Nick Spencer on the continuity! During FNSM (Vol 1) #11-13, Peter was a teacher at Midtown Highschool and MARRIED to Mary Jane, Beck fought two Mysterio imposters during that arc. Peter’s secret identity has been revealed to the world during this time and OMD hasn’t happen. I think I know what Peter’s “biggest sin” that Kindred has been yammering about, is. Although we all know that OMD is apart of this story, it’s what triggered that event that has Kindred ticked. If you think about it, once Peter revealed himself as Spider-Man, he put the people he loved in danger. It lead to the events in OMD that changed everything. To Kindred, if Peter kept his mask on, none of this would have happened.
It would also explain Kindred’s frustration on Peter when he revealed his secret to Felicia. He was jealous. He would reveal his secret to his ex-girlfriend but keep other secrets from his supposedly “best friend” when he was alive and kicking? If this is where Spencer is going, you can feel a little sympathy for Harry, just a little.
It’s nice that we got a little backstory on Mysterio, but that does leave a question open. Kindred visits were less frequent as years passed…why?
Scattered Pictures: ..Of the smiles we left behind. Mary Jane went to therapy after Gwen died which seemed to help her cope and she returned when another friend (Harry) passed away. Mary Jane can’t remember that second session with her therapist..only the name. Beck pans it off as that memories are a tricky thing and can lead you astray. Here’s my thought. She can’t really remember because of OMD and that sits outside of Beck’s “jurisdiction” to reveal that important piece to her. Although we did gain clarity on when Kindred/Harry found Mysterio in hell, I still feel there could have been more addressed. Mary Jane was kidnapped. She should have been asking why did Beck kidnap her as soon as she asked about her whereabouts. Instead we got her not remembering the second therapy session. I was honestly hoping for a bit more.
One could argue… “Hey Chi-Town..what about Flash Thompson? He was a friend, why didn’t Mary Jane seek therapy about his passing?” She did actually, in another form. A death of a mutual friend brought her back together with Peter. She revealed that in the Look Ups meetings. It allowed Mary Jane to improve the perception of herself in her relationship with Peter. Gotta give props to Spencer on making MJ very realistic. He makes her real by showing how vulnerable she was and how strong she was to overcome the trauma she faced.
Norman’s Key: Stromm blamed Norman for stealing his legacy away from him. So Norman should not expect something nice coming from whatever Stromm “left him.” Still unclear what that is, but I’m betting it’s something to expose the Osborn Legacy. Maybe that’s what Kindred was after when he killed Stromm way back in ASM $5.
Hiding in the Shadows: We get some more scenes with Carlie and Lyman. H Lyman seems to remember EVERYTHING Harry Osborn did in the past. Yet we have Kindred remembering EVERYTHING that Harry Osborn did. Lyman really can’t shake the feeling and it would lead anyone to believe that Harry Osborn and Harry Lyman are one entity that has been split. As sound as that theory is, lets keep in mind of the Chameleon Conspiracy. I think that Lyman is a Chameleon agent like Terresa is believed to be. Except that Lyman is so deep undercover on who he is (Harry Osborn) that he no clue on what is going on with Kindred. Now that Lyman and Cooper have escaped their cell, it’s unclear on what’s to happen next. I do hope that Lyman does fight back against Kindred as The Green Goblin. Otherwise why would Spencer tease that panel? Here’s hoping, remember, Normie still found that room full of Goblin equipment.
Nitpicks:
- So MJ changed clothes after Mysterio escaped with her in Sinister War #1?
- Not much Spidey in this issue. I take it ASM will focus on supporting characters and SS will focus on Spidey and the villains.
- So…Kindred stashed away the ambulance he died in from Spect 200. After they drove away did he come back to life and steal it? That’s not creepy at all…
- Where the thwip is this graveyard that Kindred has been hiding out at? Wouldn’t Fisk or Osborn deduce that’s where Kindred would run back too?
Grade: Giving this a B-. The only thing that I really liked was the timeline on when Mysterio came back. It honored past issues into continuity and allowed us a sneak peak of when Kindred started to plan his scheme. The art was a miss for me and besides two artist sharing the first same name they didn’t share the same artwork. I’m not going to be “Neil about it” and go on the colorist, but it looked fine to me. I just want ONE consistent artist on ASM. Spencer is at his usual, slow on the reveal, but still feeding us good stories. Again, enjoy the ride! I do however wanted to see more of Mary Jane and Mysterio. She was just kidnapped, apparently went through a wardrobe change, and didn’t really ask Beck one WHY he whisked her away. I have a feeling that will be addressed in ASM 72 which is scheduled to be released on Aug 25th! That’s when you see me next, till next time!
Next Issue:
Sinister War #2 and Dark Mark will walk you through that one. See you in two weeks!
Mary Jane left you a message! Press play and hear what she has to say!
As Dark Mark pointed out in his review from Sinister War #1. Peter shouldn’t have left MJ and then go deal with “crowd control”. There was no crowd to “control”. All the innocent bystanders left the theater. I understand why Spencer did it, because Peter is not suppose to know what Mysterio had to say in that issue, but there could have been a better way to handle that. Spidey is afraid the building will collapse on top of them, just grab MJ and swing her out of the theater to keep her safe, sneak in a “Be right back I love you so much” kiss, and then go deal with “supervillain crowd control” in the theater. Sure Mysterio or Doc Ock would later take her hostage as they escaped, but at least with this Peter MADE an effort to keep her safe. That’s what I would have done if I was planning to propose to her that night.
[Absconded] It means to leave hurriedly and secretly, typically to avoid detection of or arrest for an unlawful action such as theft. It’s a new word I never heard of and I wanted to share it with you readers.
Yes, I stole that topic from Alford’s Notes. Font Size and all! Hey, I committed this plagiarism act for you guys, so you’re welcome. Honestly Mark should feel honored that I’m taking time out of my busy schedule to actually read his reviews that would generate this hyenas act, so technically it’s his fault. He’s so used to reviewing ASM, so now he’s out of his comfort zone. I mean Sinister War doesn’t even pop in the Amazing Spider-Man Folder on the Marvel App.
See? So his essence of his review is here..in a twisted humor kind of way…look, I just want to be a “team player” and make Dark Mark feel comfortable (uncomfortable) as I can.
Nicole Bandit is a MJ/Spinneret Cosplayer that has been featured on the front page and frequent contributor on our Podcast (Cosplay Episodes). She was also featured for a while on our FaceBook Banner, showing love for the Crawlspace. Always willing to help us out and friendly to talk to. Be sure you check her out on her social media and see what kind of cool things she’s been up to.
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@Mario: Best guess. Script comes in and there’s a deadline. No one artist can finish in time and so they put two on there.
@Evan: You should definitely skip through Mark’s review and go to the comments, then go back and read it. Let’s also not forget, even if my bullet point does vanish, Gwen NEVER accepted Peter as Spider-Man, MJ did. It is pronounced SH like “shy” but no points are taken from our friend Nicole, she’s aces and does a lot for the Crawlspace. She enjoyed recording that message for you fans! From now on, I’m gonna call you “Chuck Town” if that’s cool. From one town to another. 😀
@AC: I love being right on that topic. I should do an article on the debate of who is Peter’s true love in a Web of Love segment. Spoiler alert: Mary Jane wins.
@Apu: I think it makes sense too. Everyone is focused on OMD but should be looking at the bigger picture…what triggered it?
I loved the issues but why do they have to use two artists? And why does the second make Spidey look like an 8 year old? this serious is huge you get your best artist and make each page epic!! especially when its spencer’s last song?? man I really wish JRJR was part of this. I agree with you on lyman he is a chameleon but maybe carlie as well? what role does she play in all of this? why is she here? so many questions with no answers just new questions is making me dread the wait! arrrrghghghghghgh cant wait spencer please don’t blow this.. stick to a great landing!
@Aqu@ — I agree that the unmasking as Peter’s sin makes sense. It’s almost a meta-commentary on the decision to have Peter unmask during Civil War. At the time when it was released, I remember reading it and thinking, “Okay, how are the writers going to undo this?” I knew it would happen sometime — or, honestly, I hoped that it would — but I had no idea how it would be done. I hadn’t considered a universe-wide mind wipe, and working an end to the marriage into the bargain (no pun intended) never occurred to me. And, given that I don’t know how much the unmasking played a role in whatever plan existed to end the marriage (if that indeed was the main goal after all), since I don’t work at Marvel, maybe Spencer is not so subtly conveying his disdain for that particular decision.
Still, it seems sort of whiny (though, admittedly, not completely out of keeping with Harry’s character) that he would be so upset or jealous of MJ for Peter’s revealing his identity to her and not to him that he would go to such great lengths to bring suffering to so many others. There must be something more to it than that. Jealousy is very powerful, but she’s his true love, for Pete’s sake. (That time the pun was intended.)
Hopefully this comment appears fairly quickly. I noticed that a comment I posted a few days ago finally appeared on the page this morning, so at least now I know I need only wait, and not repeat what I posted as I’ve done in the past.
This issue was a bit perplexing. I still have to get back and read FNSM by PAD (and all that period), so that may add to it.
The part where we learn that MJ had Mysterio as an analyst and doesn’t remember it well gives me the creep.
@Mark: I, too, read it as the door has always been open, and if I had time I would have gone back to check previous issues to be sure neither one of them actually tried to open it.
They seem to be in some kind of mystical or ethereal place. It would be mind-blowing (and maybe a bit disturbing) if we found that Carlie too is one of Harry’s personalities!
@Chi-Town: as I said, I never read Mysterio’s return so I had no context, but you may have nailed it with Pete’s sin being the unmasking. I think it makes sense.
Your breakdown of Pete’s love life is absolutely correct, and I’m not sure how anyone who’s read the comics from the beginning could disagree with you. However, I don’t think we need the abomination of Sin’s Past to prove MJ is Pete’s true love. Gwen, as she was written back then, would never have worked long term for Peter, but also would never have had an affair with NORMAN OSBORN of all people. Her characterization after her death has changed over the years, but that original version of Gwen was not a superhero wife.
As for anyone who argues that MJ isn’t the woman for Peter, i’d suggest one scene. (i’m sure there are many, but this one is the best, in my opinion.) The last page of the death of Gwen Stacy story. Simple, but perfect.
I loved the issues but why do they have to use two artists? And why does the second make Spidey look like an 8 year old? this serious is huge you get your best artist and make each page epic!! especially when its spencer’s last song?? man I really wish JRJR was part of this. I agree with you on lyman he is a chameleon but maybe carlie as well? what role does she play in all of this? why is she here? so many questions with no answers just new questions is making me dread the wait! first it was a week now we are at two weeks arrrrghghghghghgh cant wait spencer please dont blow this.. stick to a great landing!
Maybe the art here isn’t an issue for some but it definitely is for me. It brings what would have been a solid issue down with a muddy, scratchy, disjointed look. It’s depressing to me how the back end of Spencer’s run has been hampered, if not flat out torpedoed, by substandard art. Thank God at least Sinister War looks good. It’s just a shame the same can’t be said for ASM. Of all the new developments in this issue, probably the most intriguing is wondering what Stromm has left for Norman. I’m definitely leaning towards believing it involves the twins he had with Gwen. If so, that’d be a pretty big move for Spencer to pull right towards the end of his run. Anxiously waiting to see how Spencer is gonna bring it all to a close.
@Chi-Town and Mark — Gosh, simply put, I don’t know which I enjoyed more: reading the review or your bickering in the comments. Mark, I saw your “not for naught” — I wasn’t going to say anything, but I see you snuck it in there. Sometimes I find myself racing through the review just to see what you all are saying in the comments.
I second (or third) ac’s statement below about the quality and historic significance of this story if it undoes OMD and Sins Past in one fell swoop. Chi-Town, even if you would then lose a bullet point for your argument that Mary Jane is Peter’s true love, I still agree with you whole-heartedly. Let’s look at it this way: Mary Jane is venerable in her vulnerability, and Gwen is just vulnerable.
By the way, I noticed that Nicole Bandit pronounced your name “chai” Town, with a hard CH, but I have a friend from Chicago who insists that it’s pronounced with an SH like “shy” as in Chicago itself. Was I told incorrectly? I need to know so that I can pronounce it the proper way in my head. I love the voice mail element of your review, by the way! It’s an excellent touch!
I’m in Charleston, SC — even though I typed “you all” above instead of “y’all” — and here people have a habit of calling this place Chuck Town. I guess it’s supposed to be hip or cool (I’m neither of these), and it just strikes me as odd because it doesn’t even reduce the number of syllables. Chi-Town makes much more sense.
I loved the issues but why do they have to use two artists? And why does the second make Spidey look like an 8 year old? this serious is huge you get your best artist and make each page epic!! especially when its spencer’s last song?? man I really wish JRJR was part of this. I agree with you on lyman he is a chameleon but maybe carlie as well? what role does she play in all of this? why is she here? so many questions with no answers just new questions is making me dread the wait! first it was a week now we are at two weeks arrrrghghghghghgh cant wait spencer please dont blow this.. stick to a great landing!
I actually like Gabriel Stacy. I thought the American Son miniseries he was a part of was really good. The original story might not be the best, but good things can still come out of it.
As for Kindred not being around, I agree with Michael. It has gotta be because Harry got resurrected. Before that, he was operating fully as a demon in Hell. And then he’s alive again. I’m still hoping that Kindred and Lyman are actually a split personality, living in the same body, and that Lyman just can’t remember (just like how Norman forgot in the old stories that he was the Green Goblin).
The Lyman with Carlie? Probably a Chameleon, but I’m willing to bet he was only brought in to stand-in for Harry once Kindred started making moves against Peter, from the start of Spencer’s run on the title.
@Mark: Thanks man! I saw the word “Absconded” on the recap page, so I decided to use it as well. Unlike you, I pay attention in class ;). It’s always better to read when you don’t do the review, however if you LOVE this issue the review is more fun to write up. This one, not so much, but wasn’t that bad. That bothered me to, about Harry. He was very bland about just realizing the door was open, however when both he and Carlie walked out, he seemed a bit shocked. I’m willing to give him the benefit of a doubt. Stromm said “To the man that STOLE my legacy, I give him this.”. Stromm is out for revenge so I think that whatever Norman is going to uncover, it’s not going to be pretty for Norman or the Osborn Legacy. Eye for Eye time of thing. As for what it is, your guess is as good as mine.
@Nicole: Always a pleasure to work with you and thank you again! I was aiming for “Joyfulness and Insightful”. Edutainment is the key!
@AC: My man, I can’t argue with that. Two terrible stories in the Spider-Mythos that SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED! PERIOD! To quote KayDay though “These things happen.”. OMD isn’t forgettable, however Sins Past is. Actually some people welcome Sins Past because it argues the point that Gwen was never faithful to Peter. Since I’m a Mary Jane fan, I point that out about Gwen, to prove that MJ is Peter’s TRUE love where as Gwen is Peter’s FIRST love. Betty and Liz were just crushes and Felica was just lust. That’s MY opinion and not everyone shares that.
Hey, I know that we’re all focused on OMD being dealt with, but it looked to me that we might be also getting rid of Sin’s Past… MJ doesn’t remember her visits with Mysterio? Is it possible he implanted memories of Gwen being pregnant and that Gwen’s “kids” are some sort of clones? Norman is going to Europe where they supposedly grew up…
If this story makes OMD and Sin’s past go away at the same time, it will be the greatest story in the history of mankind…
Always a pleasure to work with Pete! And his commentary on each issue is so insightful; he’s a joy to read.
Some interesting revelations here with the Kindred/Mysterio timeline and a kind of neat reveal to find that MJ received therapy from a disguised Mysterio after Harry’s death but at this point all the endless teasing on the way to the big finale just leaves me begging for all this to finally be over with. No matter how well Spencer brings his run to a close, I fear the overwhelming feeling I’ll have at the end is just exhaustion rather than elation – and probably more than a hint of irritation that what might have been a terrifically entertaining story had it played out in a more concise way instead became intolerable due to being dragged out to an absurd degree. And it really can’t be said enough how the back end of Spencer’s run was marred by substandard art. To me, the art in this issue – as it has been for so many ASM issues of late – is a hindrance to enjoying the issue. Maybe it looks fine to others but for me it’s an eyesore. The style might work fine elsewhere but on ASM, especially in an issue like this that has to evoke the past, I think a cleaner, more traditional look was called for. Even just basic storytelling suffers here. I feel like the moment where Harry sees that the cell door is unlocked is more confusing than it should be because the art isn’t clear on what’s happening. Was it always unlocked? Did it suddenly open while he was talking to Carlie? I don’t know. Seeing an issue like this makes me all the more grateful that at least they have Bagely on Sinister War. It’s just a shame he couldn’t be pulling double duty on ASM. But hey, one man can only do so much. Overall, I’d have to give this issue a middling grade of C+. Better art would have vaulted it a full grade higher, even if the tired feeling of “Oh God, can we just get to the point of all this?” would have remained.
Absconded – nice vocabulary word there, Chi-Town! Nice to see my efforts in continuing your education are not for naught.
I liked this issue a little better than you did. Maybe because I could just sit back and read it without thinking about the review. I’d give it a B. My issues with the issue (see what I did there?) are pretty much the same as yours. The big thing that bothered me the most was Harry’s reaction when the door was unlocked. To me it seemed that he is suggesting that it was always unlocked when clearly it wasn’t. I’m curious if others read it that way.
So Stromm says that Norman stole his (Stromm’s) legacy, so the key is to give him (Norman) his legacy? What could that be? It doesn’t seem that it would be a hidden goblin cache since Norman was still evil Norman when Stromm died. It could have something to do with Harry, especially if Stromm created the will after he met Kindred, but before Kindred killed him. Especially since Kindred kept saying “Say my name!” For that matter, it could be Stromm’s contingency plan in case Harry double-crossed him. Stromm has experiences with be double-crossed by Osborns, so he may just have been ready for that. But what would it be? Norman recognizes the key, so… I just don’t know.
I do think Kindred wants that isotope genome thingee in order to merge Lyman into him. Maybe that’s his way of returning to the land of the living?
Nice job on the review (I’m feeling nice this morning).
Great review! I agree that MJ reaction was a little off, but she seemed to genuinely trust Beck, so chances are she didn’t process her kidnapping as that, but as a way for Mysterio to get her someplace safe .
Feels like there is indeed 2 Harrys. Also I believe the door opening was Norman doing, and both Harry and Carlie are stuck in that mansion in Europe.
I have a couple of guesses after reading: 1) I believe that Norman’s main sin is the abduction of Mayday. 2) Many people think that the estate is similar to the one in which Gabrielle and Sarah grew up. 3) I like the theory that Gabrielle and Sarah are chameleons.
Michael: LMAO! OH autocorrect, you can be so cruel sometimes! Thanks for the comment man!
I think Kindred’s visits to Mysterio becoming less frequent over the years have to do with Harry returning after OMD and becoming a father again.
“He makes her real by showing how venerable she was” VENERABLE? Maybe the Crawlspace staff is right about you being obsessed with MJ. 🙂
I wonder if the mansion that Norman is heading to is the same one that Ned found the serum in and Harry Lyman was on his way to when Kindred grabbed him. There’s got to be some significance.
Also, it’s a bit weird that the cell door opened after Harry’s monologue. There’s got to be something up with that as well.