We have Kingpin, Mr. Negative, Liz, Normie, Norman, and one very angry Spider-Man! Mix them together and you get Amazing Spider-Man #59, of course! Add a dash of wit and a chance for you to make it into a Spider-Man comic and you get the Dark Mark #60 review! Join me as we look at what is here, and more importantly, what does that mean?
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Negative Space part 2
Writer: Nick Spencer
Penciler: Marcelo Ferreira
Inkers: Wayne Faucher
Colorist: Morry Hollowell with Andrew Crossley
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artist: Mark Bagley, John Dell, and Nathan Fairbairn
Asst. Editor: Lindsey Cohick
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: February 10, 2021
Remedial ASM 101
Kindred is locked in a dark force cube by Kingpin and being held in Ravencroft by a now sin-free Norman. Martin Li’s sins (Mr. Negative) are coming for him and he decided the best place to hide was an old lady’s soup kitchen.
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
Martin Li reveals that he is not really Martin Li, but rather a bad guy who took Martin Li’s identity to try and be a better person. Norman decides that it would be a great idea to let Liz and Normie see Harry as Kindred locked up in Ravencroft. Aunt May and Martin Li hide in the CRAWLSPACE while Spidey fights the Inner Demons, but Aunt may gets caught anyway. Martin Li accepts Mr. Negative back into his heart to save May and Kingpin comes in to save the day, leaving Spidey feeling like he’s probably been bamboozled,* which, of course, he has. Meanwhile, Norman gets to spend some quality time with his little nincompoop** of a grandchild, Normie. Back to the bad villains, Kingpin wants Mr. Negative’s negative version of the Tablet of Life and since the two tablets together can resurrect a person, he offers to let Mr. Negative in on contest to retrieve it from Boomerang, along with every other organized crime nutcase in New York.
What Passed and Failed
PASS – Kingpin Shenanigans – I love story lines where Kingpin does what the hero wants, but the hero then feels like, ‘Hey, wait a minute…’. Now that Kingpin no longer needs to worry about Kindred, I guess Peter Parker is no longer Fred’s good luck charm.
FAIL – No enough fighting – I wanted to see more of that fight between the Inner Demons and Spider-Man. I especially wanted to see our angry web-head make that demon pay for using Aunt May as a shield.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), FWUMP rates a 5. Not much to choose from this issue. Rather quiet. Not sure where another good opportunity would be, but I’m sure an enterprising artist would be able to come up with one.
Analysis
Again, we have not much happening, but a whole heck of a lot that has potential to be big. Let’s break down a few:
Kindred’s Centipede – I think it is obvious now that there is only one centipede with Kindred and that the other centipede is out and about (with Carly? In Carly? Left Carly for dead?). We haven’t gotten a clear image of Kindred since, so it has still been some speculation on if it was one of his original centipedes or if it was reproducing, but I think after a few issues of partial images all that suggest there is only one giant centipede*** in the dark force cube. So now the question is, is it acting autonomously or is Harry controlling it? My bet is that Harry is controlling it.
Liz Allan – There was some debate last issue over this being “shady Liz” or not. I see not reason why she is not still the ruthless business woman she was in Slott’s run. Who knows, maybe this deal with Mephisto put her on the path to being that way (but let’s face it, she’s got a supervillain for a brother, it’s not like it’s not in the genes). The fact that she is sad about Harry does nothing to say that she was never the person she was in Spencer’s run. In fact, to me, it deepens her character. I like to think that she has made connections with Harry again and is starting to see them maybe getting past all of their past deeds and connections, only to be hit with this again. I’m still waiting for Harry Lyman to return from Paris (but that’s just my head canon).
Norman’s Game – I don’t know about you, but I’m suspicious about Norman just wanting to make amends. Sure, his sin has been taken away, but does that mean he has to be good? I think it just means he’s been given a clean slate to start anew and if you’re rotten at the core, the rotten will return – sin or no sin. Look at Overdrive. He’s got a new lease on life. I assume his sins have caught back up to him, but he is choosing to be the good guy. Norman… well, I don’t think he has it in him. The connection he’s making with Normie is sketchy to me.
Tablet of Death – I just imagine that Spencer is sitting at the pitch table and said, “OK – get this – we have ONE tablet of life, right? What if we had TWO tablets?” and Lowe just going *mind blown*
Aunt May Knows – OK, I don’t know for sure that she knows, but look at this panel:
That pause after “Yes” seems to imply something. On top of that, look at Peter’s arm. That’s a lot of blood. Any parent figure would be slightly alarmed at a cut with that much blood. If nothing else, it would need to be cleaned and bandaged. Stitches are more likely. However, May just ignores it. I’m not suggesting that she needs to be all doting and such, but to just blow off that much blood? Something’s up there. I mean, if Grant came in bleeding like that, I’d at least tell him to use some soap on that and not to bleed all over the carpet. She doesn’t even do that! On top of that, later she tells Peter that she has to be trusting and then says, “So do you.” Maybe another hint that she knows at least that there is more to him than meets the eye. She knows.
What Defines You – Kindred’s whole shtick is that Peter is responsible for all the pain that people in his life experience. We know that Harry is full of it and that his pains would have happened regardless (though some blame can be put on Peter for inserting Norman back into their lives without warning). Many of the deaths that Kindred lays at Peter’s feet are not his fault – even indirectly. Aunt May thinks about the problems that she’s had with F.E.A.S.T. and those would have happened without Peter’s Spider-Man persona. In fact, they probably would have been worse. Will Peter see it that way? Well, that’s what Spencer is building to. Either Peter will fall into the superhero trope of everything-that-is-bad-is-a-result-of-my-hero-life funk or he will say, “Screw it! Bad things happen and I am doing my best.” For the record, I have a new Official Crawlspace Stance that says Aunt May IS an attractant to bad things and it is HER fault that the bad things happened and HER fault that Peter has all this pain and misery in his life – not Spider-Man’s.
Well, back to the issue at hand. Martin Li gives us hope that Spider-Man will consider another viewpoint other than Kindred’s:
Here’s hoping that Peter will factor that in when Kindred makes his next move. I think that is also why we see Spider-Man stalking Norman. I think he is trying to figure out if Norman can be someone other than his sins.
With that in mind, I think Norman’s situation here is imperative to Spider-Man’s outlook. If Norman can be a good guy, then Kindred’s accusations are false and Spider-Man isn’t defined by his ‘sins’ so to speak. If Norman fails, then literarily speaking, Spider-Man is doomed to issue after issue of angst.
Bad Villain Spotlight
Not a typical bad villain spotlight this time, but we do have several that we need to make sure we are all on board with. Here is who is in the back room at Kingpin’s place:
So who do we have here?
Behind the table/Standing:
Owl – Interesting – I am behind in my Daredevil (I read it on Marvel Unlimited), but I thought Owl was out for the count after his failed attempt to take over Hell’s Kitchen. Guess he’s back!
??? – I do not recognize this guy, but my guess is Manslaughter Marsdale? Does anyone else have an idea?
Madame Masque – Normally an Iron man villain, but welcome to the club, Masque!
On the table:
Silvermane! Yes! Where’s his remote-control car? I love that Spencer still has him at only a head! What? You haven’t read Superior Foes yet? Sacre bleu! Get on Marvel Unlimited and get going (after you comment on this review, of course)!
Sitting around the table:
Hammerhead – Last I read, he lost his men in the war of Hell’s Kitchen. So is he just a lackey of Silvermane? Now?
Crime Master – Don’t know who he is under the mask, but I bet you it will be someone who you just don’t know.
Tombstone – JR’s favorite!
And now, for our Pop Quiz – who is the last person at the table:
a. Big Bertha
b. Large Marge
c. Black Mariah
d. She Blob
e. Urula Umbridge
Extra Credit
Last issue, I asked you to come up with names for Kindred’s centipedes. You responded! So now I am going to put it up for an OFFICIAL vote. I will then write a letter to the Spider Offices at Marvel and include the names that we have chosen and include the name of the person who submitted it (not that it will get printed – maybe I should Norbot to send it). Cast your vote!
Final Grade
I liked the issue overall. My main complaint is that we could have gotten some good fight scenes, but we didn’t.
B+
Throw in a page of fighting and this goes up to an A-.
What’s Next?
Peter and Mary Jane have been through so much… Spider-Man has been a constant strain on them from day one… With the events of the past few months, is there anything left?
Nick Lowe has asked people to let the Spider office know how they are doing by sending an email to spideyoffice@marvel.com and to make sure you mark it “OK to print”. If you get published, make sure to draw our attention to it!
*Chi-Town, that means ‘tricked or deceived’
**For Hornacek
*** Tell me you didn’t start to assume that was Neil Bogenreider in the video.
‘Nuff Said!
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@Mark – You jack-a-ninny!
@Hornacek – I had forgotten the nincompoop thing! Now I feel like an ignoramus!
I didn’t get to the comicshop and read this issue until yesterday (the day of the podcast review). I feel like a real nincompoop.
@Sthenurus – You’re Marco? Man, you’ve been cranking out those reviews like crazy! I was going to wait until I got caught up on Marvel Unlimited to read those reviews, butter I’ll just jump right in! Welcome to the team!
@Sthenurus
I’ll definitely check out your reviews when they post, worth having someone else’s take on KIB anyway, I’ve probably missed some things!
@Mark — Haha! Well, gee, if you put it like that, maybe those centipede names do make sense…
@Mark and @DocFolsom
A review of the first 3 issue of king on black as well as #4 should be coming within the week! I’d say that so far it has been very entertaining and fast paced. As you guy know I HATE decompression, and there is none to be found here!
Also, Venom 33 features some of the best Peter Parker characterization I have read in a while. Although, to be fair, everytime Spidey appears in the event he feels VERY in character.
I had to laugh at your last comment there because I feel the same way at times regarding the Green Goblin. If I make one mistake, or miss one bit of trivia, I immediately feel not worthy haha! I wouldn’t worry about not recognizing him, after I guessed Bushman I checked the Marvel Wikia for that issue, and they didn’t have it filled in. I just checked again now, and the villain is…Willis Stryker (Diamondback)!! I wasn’t too far off!
“Maybe his sins will form another entity or join into Normie or Harry Lyman and we’ll have a Norman-esque Green Goblin and a nice Norman running around the Marvel Universe.”
I didn’t even think about that, that’s brilliant. Kind of a riff on the Demogoblin, but more Norman-centric…that could really work well!
As far as KIB, I have to wait until it finishes to really comment, right now it is somewhat entertaining. Cates/Stegman have definitely left their mark on Venom and they’re promising big things for this upcoming Venom 200. But to be perfectly honest, this is certainly not a must read. Unfortunately for me, I’m a Norman Osborn and Spider-Man completionist, so I have to track down every book they appear in…for better or worse.
As a quick aside, I’m probably in the minority here but I think Venom has been played out since his first few appearances. I don’t even have him in my top 5 Spidey villains. Norman/Ock/Sergei/Curt Connors/Miles Warren.
@Evan, @Sthenurus, @ Doc Folsome
Evan – Apparently, when the theme was switched to white and then back to dark, the link color did not make the switch. After you pointed it out, I mentioned it to BD and he wasted no time getting that fixed. We put a gold star by your name on the Poster of Great CS Posters (JR came up with that clever name) here in the lounge at the Crawlspace office (right next to the Keurig!). And while I love all the names that were submitted (beside’s Chi-Town’s contributions, of course), I am totally on board with calling them Crazy Town and Banana Pants! Just imagine, if that happens, then we can consider all the times that something weird happened in Peter’s life was actually the result of Kindred’s machinations from hell, sending his centipedes to do his dirty work. Then, in moments of clarity, Peter could see through the madness, recognize the centipedes, shout out that it was their doing (“That’s Crazy Town Banana Pants!”) before getting zapped to forgetfulness and not remembering what it was that he was seeing. It wraps all continuity together. You’re a genius, Evan!
Sthenurus – Thanks for the kind words! While I’m not bored with the Norman/Kindred stuff, I was really into the Kingpin side of the story and that last panel – WHOA! Get ready for some street level supercriminal scavenger hunting! Bring on Boomerang! This could be the moment where we get the BO magic team up (I forgot who coined BO as Boomerang and Overdrive’s team name, but it was brilliant)! I’m ok with Aunt May knowing and hopefully if Spencer does that, he does it in a manner that you can say, “Huh! OK, fourth time’s not too bad.”
Doc – Couple of responses: 1. I totally agree that there is another Harry in Paris. I so want there to be another Harry in Paris! And as you were showing have far that “man split in two” was going in these characters, I thought back to early in Spencer’s run to where he foreshadowed all of this with splitting Spider-Man in two. 2. I haven’t been reading KIB (guess I’ll pick it up when it hits Unlimited), but it’s nice to know that they are keeping him in this arc’s continuity. Is it a good story so far? To be honest, I am so out of the loop on current Marvel (other than ASM) that I have no real idea what that story is all about. 3. Totally on board with the sin cleansing having a restorative effect, but I just believe that Norman chooses to do bad and the cleanse won’t last with him. Who knows? Maybe his sins will form another entity or join into Normie or Harry Lyman and we’ll have a Norman-esque Green Goblin and an nice Norman running around the Marvel Universe. 4. Bushmaster is not a bad guess either. I feel better that no one else seemed to automatically know who it was. I figured that the first post would be someone going, “That character you can’t remember is *insert obvious name here*. Why does BD keep you on as reviewer? You stink!”
@AdamBParker, @Michael, @Sam, and @Franz29
Adam – You are probably right. I’ve a blank in my mind about Slott’s early run. I had stopped collecting after the clone saga, picked up again briefly during Civil War, and jumped back in at Big Time. I’ve gone back and read those that I missed, but they just don’t stick with me, nor does much of Slott’s run until Superior.
Michael – OK, I was possibly, potentially, being a tad bit unfair with my “it’s in the genes” criticism….
Franz29 – You and me both (on the fuzzy issues)! Maybe we are reading too much into the art, but it sure seems like May knows (or at least suspects). I either want her knowing or being extreme doting and naive (take your sweater, dear, those library air conditioners could give you pneumonia!).
Sam – I have no doubt that eventually Norman will be reverted to status quo (as all things eventually are), but until then, I think Spencer is making it fun to figure out. I do like this idea that bad people are bad people and good people are good people, regardless of what bad or good things they do along the way. I’m pretty positive that Overdrive will stay good to be the counterweight to Norman’s rotten core.
Couple of thoughts on this one. Mark, great review as usual!
1.) The story opens with the line (from Li) about “a man split in two.” Obviously Li refers to himself, but I think there’s a reason the story opens with that, then quickly shifts to Norman. Norman is clearly “a man split in two” from the “cleansing.” He’s grappling with who he was vs how he feels now (which I think adds more color to my second point below). Moreover, I think this is a reference Harry/Kindred as well. Split in two (as we’ve discussed multiple times now) because of Brand New Day and his father’s actions over the years. I interpreted that sentence as foreshadowing the notion that there are two Harry’s out there. The whole scene with Norman taking Normie/Liz to see “Harry/Kindred” was too rushed and not the climactic moment it needed to be. I’d bet that the Harry that Liz mentions is in Paris, is actually in Paris…which is why we didn’t get to see a true confrontation between Liz and Harry. I think that is the first time Liz has seen the pre-BND Harry (as Kindred).
2. I think Spider-Man is thinking like you Mark, and not trusting the converted Norman, but I think that’s the point. How could Spider-Man honestly believe Norman has turned a new leaf and that he’s now trustworthy after all they have been through?? But that is where the drama going forward lies, so I think it is legit. It’s worth adding that Norman is also currently appearing in the Thunderbolts KIB mini, and he’s contrite there as well…Taskmaster even comments about how odd his behavior is. Norman, of course, likes to lay things on thick, but I find it hard to believe he’s phoning it in. He’s had conversations with Liz, Peter, MJ, Kafka, Harry/Kindred, Taskmaster/Tbolts and even his own soliloquies which suggest he’s changed…I think it’s legit. Spencer has found an interesting way to extract some drama from Norman for the readers to lap up…a constant question of whether or not we can trust this guy. Norman will ultimately have to do something to prove it…
3. As far as the Sin Eater’s “cleansing.” I think it gives the ‘victim’ a new lease on life. Past sins can weigh us down (like Jacob Marley!) and become weights that perpetuate more sins. It is possible that the removal does give them a new outlook, allowing them to truly become good. We don’t know (for a character like Nefaria for instance) just how far back their sins went, and thus how much of a burden they were carrying that affected their current behavior. Thus the “cleansing” provides a fresh perspective for them to view their life/actions, one they may not have had since they were much younger. I think the cleansing could change who they are but, hey, that’s just my interpretation.
4. Marsdale is a good guess, that has to have the highest odds. Although he does look a bit like the Bushmaster from Netflix’s version…so maybe Bushmaster?
As usual, Great review Mark!
It’s funny how a lot happened in this issue, but I somehow found myself bored of the kindred/Norman parts and looking forward to the mister negative/Kingpin part.
I Hope we don’t get yet ANOTHER reveal that aunt May knows Peter is Spider-Man. ASM 400 did it wonderfully. ASM vol 2 38 did it just as well. The 3rd time would feel like threading water. And there is enough that still needs to be addressed to waste an issue on that!
@Mark — Hey, you fixed the “BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB” link. It shines in all of its unpronounceable glory. Thank you!
Like Sam commented below, maybe I misread the nature of the sins. It just seems odd to me that Mr. Negative’s sins would somehow coalesce into an alter-ego that wants to reclaim Mr. Li — not when we consider that previous sins have gone into the Webmeeting/Websters/Emanuel Lewises, but they didn’t materialize into a sentient creature beforehand, if I recall. But maybe if there’s a mandate to include ancillary characters for promotional purposes, it’s permissible to ignore consistency.
Gosh, even being knocked over by a bike messenger is a better explanation for “Why Peter — You’re bleeding” than tripping over some debris. If Spider-man can tell when people say his name without the hyphen, he should have been able to catch Aunt May’s double hyphen after her “Yes.”
By the way, please don’t vote for Crazy Town and Banana Pants — I was completely joking, and if that wins, everyone at Marvel will associate my name with a line from Ghost Peter that he never uttered when embodied, not matter what MJ and Carlie may say.
Great review!
It’s weird how I’ve almost totally forgotten each and every story from the BND era. Totally passed me by that Negative created the Devil’s Breath with the tablet (TBH, until you mentioned it I’d forgotten DB wasn’t just in the game). Seems a little odd; I can remember stories Pre-OMD really well but these are just fuzz, and I don’t have the desire to go back and re-read them. Guess the mind wipe broke the fourth wall too 😉
As I said in Chi-Town’s review, C+ for me. I do agree, may suspects (or knows) though. This is something that should be brought back in to continuity and I’d like to see May’s reaction to all those memories coming back when Peter unmasks for her. She’s not the wilting flower of the Lee days, May can cope with it.
You bring up an interesting point re Norman still being evil. I think I’ve been reading the whole sins thing too literally – which, to be fair, is kinda how it’s been presented so far.
When Nefaria and co had their sins cleansed, they all immediately become very milquetoast. But the concept of the sin eater (as I understand it) is that he dissolves people’s sins who cannot forgive themselves – either because they’re already dead (like in the Appalachian legend), or because, as in Norman’s case, they’re morally or spiritually dead.
When Sin Eater shot Nefaria et al it was only their past sins that were cleansed – not their inherent badness. They’re bad selfish people right through – that’s why they use their powers for selfish means. Sins should represent past deeds and actions, and so cleansing them shouldn’t necessarily make the guys model citizens. Not unless they were already planning on turning over new leaves, but couldn’t because of the guilt associated with their past crimes. But I don’t think that’s how guy’s like Nefaria were presented. Martin Li might be the exception here.
Anyway, I think you’re right in that, we shouldn’t immediately accept Norman as “cured” now, just because his sins were absolved. He’s still fundamentally the same guy who was before, so it might be misdirection on Spencer’s part. And I kinda hope it is, because I like my coffee black, and my Norman’s evil, thanks.
@Adam- Yeah, the second tablet was Slott’s creation.
“she’s got a supervillain for a brother, it’s not like it’s not in the genes”- Mark is Liz’s STEPBROTHER, so I guess we can blame poor parenting skills rather than genes.
Great summary. I hope Peter does take “Li’s” comments to heart and he can start to move back to being the Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man. Since Sins Rising both the series and Peter have been in a dark place, I hope next issue can bring a ray of hope.
I guessed the lady at the table was Black Mariah – based on the most recent Power Man and Iron Fist series. No idea on the suited man at the back.
Happy to be proved wrong but I think the second tablet was a Dan Slott creation – Mr Negative used it in the first story of Brand New Day to create Devil’s Breathe.