The long-awaited issue has finally arrived – #50 and Kindred sets the table! Who will be coming to dinner? Will we see who is behind the bandages? Can Norman Osborn swim? Can Madam Web be any more annoying? Is there anything remotely interesting after the end splash panel? Read on, dear reader, and let’s find out!
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Last Remains part 1 (of 11 – Jeez!)
Writer: Nick Spencer
Artist: Patrick Gleason
Colorist: Edgar Delgado
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artist: Patrick Gleason and Morry Hollowell
Asst. Editor: Tom Groneman and Lindsey Cohick
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: October 14, 2020
Remedial ASM 101
Some dude with little to no fashion sense and who probably sits around writing emo poetry has been lurking in the shadows longer than Kane ever dreamed of. He knows who Spidey is and calls himself Kindred. He also hates Norman, who incidentally, has been left high and dry (well, actually low and wet) by Spidey to meet his fate against the Sin-Eater.
Announcements
In case you haven’t heard, Ryan Ottley is done with his drawing of Spider-Man. Gleason has picked this up and whether he will be the main artist or not is yet to be seen (though with the 10 more issues between now and mid-December, I doubt it. Also, we have two new assistant editors in the Spidey Office. Rumor has it that the last one rightly questioned the inclusion of so many letters from the same guy and was fired for it. I, of course, will leave no rock unturned until I find the truth of the matter.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), KNOCK KNOCK rates an 2. Yes, I know there were more interesting ones to choose, but I didn’t choose them, now did I?
The Story and the Analysis – Two for One!
What we really have here are three story threads that are coming close to intertwining – Kindred’s story, Norman’s story, and Spider-Man’s story. I guess we can say that Sin-Eater’s story overlaps the three and in the darkness binds them.
The story is told a bit out of order, which Spencer loves to do. Let’s go through it more or less how it unfolds chronologically.
Kindred – He’s lurking in a graveyard yet again, but this time goes full into digging up the grave of none other than George Stacy. Boy is Arthur going to be ticked at this one. Now, I’ve got to give props to Kindred here because he is really getting his money’s worth out of those centipedes. We’ve seen him use them as decoration, stabby-stabs, and to hang on the wall, but here we see him using them as shovels. That’s pretty awesome. Unfortunately for Kindred, this also counts as Aggravated Cemetery Desecration and in New York state, that is a Class E felony and could be punishable with up to four years in prison and five years of probation, plus fines.
Spencer gets a bit cheeky and has Kindred say to us (via his soliloquy to Peter) “I’m sure you’re tired of the game.” Then we pause Kindred’s story until it can overlap with Norman and Spider-Man’s.
Spider-Man – This issue is not as much about Spider-Man as it is about getting us ready to see what Spider-Man is about to go through in the next several issues. What we do get effectively transitions him from the last arc to this one. I freely admit when I make mistakes. For example, I made one in college when I dated Jan (think Betty Brant) and I made my second one last review. To me, it seemed Spider-Man just tossed Norman out of the boat once they had gotten away from Sin-Eater. I mean, they were in the boat for quite some time and I just assumed that the boat was moving the entire time, but I was wrong. Spider-Man dumped Norman right back to where Sin-Eater was.
Norman – Wakes up to see Sin-Eater standing above him. It must have taken a lot of effort to get out of the ground, but Sinny has lost a lot of weight in the process. He is no longer all bulgy-headed and his clothes are back intact. I assume that as some point in The Closet of Ravencroft #4 that Sin-Eater shot Sybil Dvorak (aka – Gypsy Moth, aka – Skein) and used those powers to sew up his threads. He probably had several of those masks left over anyway, from the way he was tossing them around to his disciples.
Here Norman does something that may have set some people off – he begs for his life. Well, I don’t think he really does. He is all over the place really and I think he is just trying to figure out if he can con Sin-Eater into going after Kindred for him. If he is begging, I don’t think it is because of a fear of dying. Norman knows that if he gets shot, he won’t die, but rather he will lose his Goblin persona. He has fought too hard to get that back just to lose it now. On top of that, if he loses it now, that means Kindred beat him, and we will see at the end of the issue why that is such a horrible ending for him. But Sin-Eater is so fixated on making Kindred happy that he doesn’t buy it and shoots Norman.
Kindred – Whatever Sin-Eater was hoping he’d get from doing Kindred’s bidding, it doesn’t matter because Kindred just straight up humiliates him and then kills him. Well, I think he kills him. He says the wages of sin is death and then all these sins with little faces come out and Sin-Eater either explodes, dissolves, gets eaten, or turns into some fish. The art is a but unclear. So this begs the question – what happens to all the powers he stole. Are they gone for good? We know that Norman isn’t restored by Sin-Eaters death. Do you have to kill Kindred to get all the powers back to where they belong like in The Lost Boys – you have to kill the HEAD vampire! The other question is where do these sins go? That, however, is not a mystery. They go visit Spidey!
Spider-Man – OK, he’s minding his own business when the boat or sub or whatever floatation device they are on gets attacked. Everyone braces for a fight. Well, everyone except Madam Web who is quite the Negative Nancy.
The sins all possess the Order of the Web, making them now the Evil Order of the Web (or EOoW for short) and they proceed to give Spidey an off-panel butt whooping. He barely manages to escape and go see Dr. Strange, who in turns lectures him.
Another marriage allusion. It might be something Spencer is planning on taking care of later, but I believe that this whole Kindred mess is tied up in it somehow. Maybe the deal is what gave Kindred the opportunity to come back or something.
Unfortunately for Spidey and Strangey, his house has less security than my local elementary school and evil Silk barges in, albeit looking cooler than she ever has before.
Kindred and Norman – While Norman is being rescued, he shows that he is truly remorseful, but he is concerned about what Kindred will do and what will happen to him. As he is telling Dr. Kafka this, we see Kindred is setting a dinner table (and you can learn how to as well by reading your Emily Post!) and he already has two guests!
I think Spencer got the wrong Norman reference there…
Anyway, while he is doing this, Norman reveals that he is so concerned about Kindred because Kindred is……
Now before anyone says that this was too obvious, I’d like to point out how many other possibilities were floating around. People were certain that this was going to be George Stacy, Dr. Octopus, Ned Leeds, Gwen Stacy, Uncle Ben, or even Carlie Cooper, so the whole it whole obvious thing wasn’t as obvious after all. Plus, I believe that the real payoff is not so much the reveal (that was more of a confirmation), but will be in why and how. Now that we know who it is (no mistaking that Tootsie Roll hair), we can make some progress into the other.
I am very happy in the reveal – obviously because I was calling Harry since the Robot Master issue, so it is good to be right (and you want to get your orders in for those Mark Was Right T-Shirts soon before they sell out!), but also because the dynamic we have here of Spider-Man, Norman, and Harry are way too interesting. The good thing about the Sin-Eater arc was that it removes any hope of Spider-Man and Norman teaming up against Kindred.
So what about the EOoW? Well, I think they will only serve to move the pieces into play and provide some fight scenes. We have TEN MORE ISSUES left. They can’t all be Kindred vs Spider-Man this is a superhero story, so we need to fight scenes. Dr. Strange I believe will only serve to help get us into the spiritual side of this (and by that I mean the Marvel spiritual realms), help out with the Mephisto part (because you know with all of the ‘deal with the devil’ references, old Mephisto HAS to make an appearance), and once Spider-Man beats Kindred, it might take a Master of the Mystic Arts to send him back to hell or lock him in some jar or something. Let’s just hope we get a “It is… a demon!” scene like in “Seven Little Superheroes”!
My only complaint? I really wish it had not taken so long to get to this point. The reveal was well done and keeping track of the clues and the special podcasts were great fun (even if Neil spent the majority of one of them talking about Transformers). I don’t even mind that Madam Web was in this issue.
I know that some of you might be upset that Peter was not the focus of this issue as much as Norman and Kindred, but I think in this case it is justified since this is a story about Kindred, Spidey, and Norman and their connection. We have to have a set and with TEN MORE ISSUES of this, we have time and space to spare. My biggest concern is that this will dissolve into overly convoluted stories, but I’m not anxious about it. Spencer has been wanting to tell this story since issue #1 and he has earned my respect. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Participation Grade
OK, this is NOT Extra Credit – this is a mandatory grade – what are YOUR thoughts on the reveal? We’ve waited 50 issues for this. I want to hear your thoughts.
Final Grade
This was good. I am excited for this arc. I am pleased with the reveal. It was everything I wanted in this issue.
A
Your Turn
What grade do YOU give it?
But Wait! There’s More!
After the story is over, there is a letters page and there is really NOTHING OF IMPORTANCE on the page at all. Not really worth your time and energy. Well, except for one thing and that is this answer to a rather bland and banal letter:
Anyone ready for Deb to make a comeback? By the way, whatever happened to all of those books she had? Did they just go blank? She wrote those to make money for her mother’s surgery or something, so I guess that’s another casualty Kindred can add to the list.
OK, OK – there was one small important thing in the letters pages and that was YET ANOTHER STINKING LETTER FROM THAT CHI-TOWN PETER NORBOT guy. GEEZ!
Good job, Peter…. I’m happy for you…. I’ll let him show off his letter in his review, so make sure you read it and pump his ego up (just don’t tell him I sent you because I’ll deny it).
What’s Next?
What’s next? What’s NOT next?! Here is the checklist:
Part of me is excited that Spencer seems committed to finally just telling this story rather making us wait until issue 75, and I’m excited that we will have so many podcasts where JR can go full Norman, but I’m also thinking of all the reviews…. There are THREE MORE THIS MONTH! And FIVE IN NOVEMBER! Holy webshooters!
Nick Lowe has asked people to let the Spider office know how they are doing by sending an email to spideyoffice@marvel.com and to make sure you mark it “OK to print”. If you get published, make sure to draw our attention to it! Unless, of course, your name rhymes with Norbot.
‘Nuff Said!
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@Mark Alford-I suppose my argument would be that the going back and forth was the conflict or “argument” for Harry’s character arc, and his choosing to save Peter was the answer. In that moment he’d gotten MJ and Normie to safety and triumphed over Spider-man. He’d avoided killing Peter before, but now his fate was sealed and all Harry had to do was stand back and do nothing and he’d have achieved what he set out to do as the Goblin.
But in the end that’s not what Harry wanted, so he goes back for him without the Goblin mask. From a narrative stand point, if he’d lived (or I guess not collapsed, unless that changes again) I don’t think he’d have returned to trying to kill Peter, that story was done.
I’m just not sure how I’d feel if it turns out the next chapter was just; Harry went to the afterlife and changed his mind again. I think I’d need a stronger reason than more resentment or torture. Though I do think if it does end up tying into BND or even OMD that could offer some interesting directions.
I’m pretty sure the Juggernaut series is post-Last Remains, but I think that only because in it Marko seems to be free of psychopathy, and he’s working positively with the good-guys. That would imply that Sin-Eater’s extraction of Juggy’s evil attributes allowed Marko to start over.
@Michael – WOW! Good article. Nice find, Michael! OK class, new required reading – read the CBR interview with Spencer on his Kindred reveal and how he teases it will play out. It’s linked to in Michael’s comments and it’s a good read and does confirm that it is Harry and why he chose to reveal it the way he did.
@PeterParkerFan and @Luk
We know Spencer is into fixing things and I think he certainly wants to fix the problem of Harry’s momentous death in SSP#200 and that being undone after OMIT. With ten more issues, I think we have A LOT more to uncover and deal with here. The big thing now, I believe, is how has Kindred been in play since Mysterio returned from hell AND Harry Lyman/Osborn been around? The answer to that will be a major factor in Harry fans liking this move. I like Harry, but I’ve not been overly fond of him since his return, with the exception of his role in Parker Industries. But his constant correcting people on his new last name, his “forgetting” that he has Normie, and undoing his death willy nilly doesn’t sit well with me. He is best used as a flawed father, trying to not to duplicate his father’s problems, and as a part of Peter’s life that represents responsibility to family and friends. Maybe when this is over, we can start getting that. Or maybe the sanctity of his #200 death will be restored. Or maybe he’ll say, “Hail Hydra.” 🙂
I do not have a problem with Harry going to hell after death. He did a lot of bad things. Issue #200 especially showed him jumping back and forth between good and evil at the drop of a hat. The fact that he happened to die in one of his good moments, doesn’t undo all he did. I speculate that he goes to hell and takes his punishment knowing that in the end, he did right by his family and his friend Peter, but then watches as Peter neglects Liz and Norman, watches as Peter throws away his marriage and future child, watches how Peter just gets through life without having to face consequences for certain actions. I also imagine that Mephisto took some pleasure in allow him to relive moments in his life (like Stan Carter) where he saw Peter abandon him when he was on a drug trip, Peter “steal” MJ away from him, Peter being the reason for Gwen’s death, Peter letting Norman go free thus putting this killer back into and endangering Harry and Liz and Normie’s life. He emerges twisted and evil, only desiring to make Peter face his consequences. Sadly, I think just as Kindred used Sin-Eater, Mephisto is using Harry.
Of course, that is just speculation on how it is going to unravel. Who knows? Not me! I am notoriously bad at predicting how things are going to play out (which is why I was happy with this reveal!).
In this interview Nick Spencer confirms that it’s Harry:
https://www.cbr.com/nick-spencer-amazing-spider-man-last-remains-interview/?utm_content=bufferba9fd&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=CBR-TW&utm_campaign=CBR-TW
“And that tells you everything you need to know about why it had to be him, funny enough. There is something about that wound that did not quite heal right. ”
He say the real question is the how and the why.
I think it’s Harry.
Saw it coming but still unsure how to feel about it.
I am of the camp that Harry shouldn’t have been revived, but I also still hold the heart of Spectacular Spider-man #200 was Harry letting go of his father’s ways and choosing to save Peter. Even the “faked death” and the Robot Parents stuff (which at least would have been planned prior, he did die very quickly) couldn’t undo that.
Having Harry go to hell straight after and slip back further into super-villainy however…even if he ends up back in the grave, that ending just won’t be the same anymore.
I know Spencer is very fond of JMD’s run so if he’s planning on cleaning house as he did with Kraven, I hope he does it without accidentally undoing the heart of the thing he’s trying to put back in place.
P.S I’m also not too fond of Kindred/Harry digging up Gwen’s grave, he was genuine in his grief over her in those stories.
I’m not sure how I feel about Kindred being Harry. One of the very few things I liked about the BND era was Harry having a family again, and for that to come undone… it just doesn’t feel right.
@Sthenurus and @Michael
Sthenurus – That’s awesome! I approve! We need a villain modeled after that and his goal is to revert everyone to primitive state and Stegron wants to go further to prehistoric state, so the two of them wage a massive battle for the fate of New York while Spidey faces their mighty minions! That. That is the 11 part mega story I want!
Michael – So it is a possibility that Norman is not correct, but I still think the shock of the reveal is over and we won’t get a surprise reveal anytime soon. But this is comics and anything can happen. That’s one reason I’m not crowing and whipping out the Mark Was Right shirts just yet. What do you think? Is it Harry or is Norman wrong?
The previews for Amazing Sprier-Man 50.LR are up and the recap page reads that Norman claims “Kindred– is really his son Harry”.
@dark Marc
Sthenurus was a prehistoric species of giant kangaroos. I stumbled upon that and the image of a giant kangaroos punching other megafauna to death just seemed too hilarious to pass up on
@Mark Nope, I couldn’t care less for the Mandalorian, so…
I’m just satisfied you spelled my name correctly, I can depart in peace.
@Sthenurus Nice explanation on why Harry is there, if Kindred is not him. In fact didn’t Kindred already use mirrors to watch people?
@Jack Brooks & @Sthenurus
Jack Brooks – Haven’t read the Juggernaut limited series. Would it take place before or after this? Is it still going on right now? I know absolutely nothing about it.
@Stenurus – First – Explain the name Sthenurus to me. I’m sure it has some meaning, but it escapes me. Second – You might be right on the reflection not being Kindred, but him eyeing his next target, but I don’t think so. I really think the mystery of the reveal is over and the next few chapters will be looking at how and why. As to why he dug up the Stacys, well, Harry was very close to Gwen. They came from the same high school and I think the Gwen Stacy series was exploring that. I don’t think he wants to “hurt” Peter as much as he wants to make Peter pay for injustices that Harry feels was done to him – the Stacys, his father, Peter abandoning him when he needed him in his drug phase, Peter not taking care of Liz and the kids after Harry’s death, Peter throwing away his life with MJ, a person that Harry never really got over (I don’t think). Uncle Ben means nothing to Harry. The reference to Sins Past might be because he blames Peter for driving Gwen to England where she met up with Norman and he blames Peter for making her a target to Norman.
All speculation, of course. I need to go back and read those old issue where Harry and Peter are roommates.
@JR, @Chi-Town, @Gabriel
JR – well, I’m always ready for Spencer to surprise me, so you are completely in the clear yet…
Chi-Town – Can’t say something is in your review when you don’t have one yet….
Gabriel – Maybe personal information? Does Strange know Spider-Man’s identity? I can’t remember who does and who doesn’t and I can’t remember if he called Spider-Man by name in the comic (and I’m too lazy to pull it up on Comixology right now). It’s not that he threw Norman to Sin-Eater, because Strange lectures him on making deals with demonic entities. You might have something there that it is something he is hiding from us as well.
@Evan
Evan – Challenge accepted! I thought the most comments would be the one where you and Hornacek quoted the entirety of Shawshank Redemption, but instead the top five most commented on articles on the Crawlspace goes like this:
1. Brad Douglas (2012) “Slott Tells Fan to F- Themselves” 647 comments
2. Brad Douglas (2012) “Slott vs the Internet” 304 comments
3. Stillanerd (2015) “Details of Amazing Spider-Man Relaunch” 188 comments
4. Brad Douglas (2010) “Slott Speaks Out and Blames Crawlspace” 181 comments
5. Brad Douglas (2011) “Podcast – Steve Wacker Interview” 180 comments
I come in at a disappointing 57th place with 55 comments on “The Entire Buffalo” the first No-Prize contest I put on for a Cobwebs article.
I need to get cracking. Maybe if I titled an article “Slott Tells Spencer to F- Himself” I can score those sweet, sweer comments!
@dark Marc
I still think it’s Gabe Stacey. Why would Harry dig up George and Gwen Stacy rather than say uncle Ben if he just wanted to hurt peter? And the mirror could just be gabe watching over his “brother”, his next target for his family reunion.
Also the sin past reference from norman to spider-gwen would make A LOT more sense in that context! No one EVER references sins past…
This explains why Cain Marko is a mostly-decent guy in the new Juggernaut limited series. His mystical “cleansing” of his sociopathic traits wasn’t reversed.
@Gabriel and @Aqu@
Gabriel – Your comment on 11 issues and there being a lot for Spencer to reveal also makes me wonder what twists we’ll get now that the story is fully set in motion. What other bombshells does Spencer have that await for us to get past the initial character reveal? Could be greatness here or absolute disaster.
Aqu@ – Completely unacceptable! You will read this once a week and come here to discuss like the rest of us! Think of it as watching the Mandalorian – you would just wait until after Christmas to watch the whole thing! Nope. I better see you here next week front and center, sir!
There is something that is making me curious, Peter said that he told almost everything to Strange, but not everything, what is he hiding to him, and probably to us.
Are we allowed to refer to members of the eOotW as Webinards?
JR: That’s in my review!!
Well, at least I’m not a suspect anymore
@Mark — Man, if I were new to Spider-man and had no idea that Peter and Mary Jane were married at one point and all of this talk of deals with the devil and such came up in the book I would be so confused. These are the kinds of moments that I love the most, though — I love seeing lots of activity and discussion among the reviews and posts here on the Crawlspace. The most comments I remember seeing on a post was somewhere in the eighties or nineties, I think, during Superior Spider-man, maybe? Or maybe when it was announced that Dan Slott was stepping down. I can’t remember. I’m sure there are metrics for that somewhere. It would be interesting to see which articles on the Crawlspace have had the most traction. There’s an article idea for you, Mark — and it would require research, too!
@Mark Alford
We are gonna be on complete disagreement here, but I kinda enjoyed Slott’s run more than Spencer’s. And I don’t hate Spencer or anything, I loved his Bedlam.
1) We shall see! You know, I will be really glad if I was wrong here. But after ABYSMAL Superior SM # 12 and return of classic Otto I am 100% sure that status quo will never be changed. I would love to see sinless Norman though.
2) We shall see as well! I still believe though that “good” Norman will reach out to his “broken son”, heal him with his love (Yeah… Norman Osborn.. heal with his LOVE… A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA) or something like that. Totally don’t see him dying again. Would be nice though if at least one Osborn stood dead, but I don’t think that’ll happen.
3) But he isn’t! He is gonna return in 54LR.
4) I agree with the restart but think it will lead to nowhere.
@Shimon – I hate that you are not enjoy this run. That’s a bad feeling when you can’t enjoy your favorite character.
My thoughts on your predictions –
1) The sins will return to their owners after Kindred’s defeat
I don’t think so. I think Spencer is going to leave them to start a new. Most will choose to continue their old ways, but I think that Overdrive is going to use this opportunity to turn a new leaf. Maybe even team up with Boomerang to do some good! The Superior Allies of Spider-Man limited series anyone?
2) Kindred-Harry will either be merged with the resurrected one or will just be banished into nothing. Either way – Harry lives! Because we can’t kill a character from the main cast!
Nope. I think Harry is done after this. which is also going to impact Liz and the kids.
3) I think the biggest change is gonna be with sin-eater, I think he is actually gonna be established as the demon. Oh, and he isn’t dead
I think he is done. We won’t see him anymore except in flashbacks.
4) Peter and MJ will remember about OMD and… NOTHING WILL HAPPEN!
I think that it wo’t just magicaly be fixed back to pre-deal a la Fairly Odd Parents, but I do think they they are going to have to come to terms with it and move forward. I think this will put the brakes on Peter’s marriage proposal, though and they will have to restart this whole relationship.
5) Oh and the last one, webinar is gonna be as useless as ever.
We are in TOTAL AGREEMENT! 🙂
Make sure you pop back in in December and let me know if you like how the story played out any better.
@Evan Berry and @ Chi-Town
I’m guessing Pre-OMT. I like that because it means that It wasn’t just Peter and MJ and their unborn child that was affected by this deal, there were other fall outs to it. We got a hint of that in Champions when Miles accepts Mephisto’s help to turn back time to keep Kamala from dying, but what he didn’t think about was that when he was able to go back and save her, he wasn’t going to be around to save this other person. The idea that this deal has consequences and Peter is going to have to deal with those is intriguing to me.
Yes, Chi-Town, I am having field day! Evan, I hope if that is the case then every time Peter calls Kindred Osborn, he just quietly corrects him to “Lyman, please.”
Yeah, I think most people can agree to the fact that the “how” and “why” are as important as the “who” and are necessary to make a good story.
In the letter column there isn’t any direct reference to Kindred being Harry, just to Harry being there (in the issue), and that line Jack Brooks reported here early could really be interpreted as a red herring. Norman is sure Kindred is Harry, and so we see that belief represented graphically, but only as a reflection in a mirror.
I can see how anyone may cling to the above to refuse the reveal, and I can see Spencer seemingly confirming it was Harry, like many had predicted, only to turn the table on us.
As to what I think, I’m with Mark: I don’t really mind who it is, as long as it is convincing.
I liked the issue and I’m looking forward to reading more; I anticipated the OotW would be controlled by Kindred (or on the contrary, that Peter would be) in some way, may that be just being influenced by a dream to do the wrong thing or, as we see here, being literally mind-controlled.
However, as I like to read almost non-stop or with little waiting between issues, I’ll probably wait for every issue of this arc to come out. That means I won’t comment for a long time. I know, it’s heart-wrenching.
@Shimon
I’m sorry, I have no problem with different opinions, but this is such a bad review to this book, so this issue is bad, because you are projecting what will happen? Not because what is really on here, but because you are making suposition about a worst case scenario?
“P.S.S.S. Also I just don’t see how Harry would ascend in the hierarchy of Hell, unless Mephisto just let him. Out of Mysterio and Harry, I’d say that Quentin would have better chances.”
This is also the first part of a story who will last 11 issues, I don’t think complaining that we don’t get all the awswer in the first part of a story, especialy if is something who will obvious be explain in the arc is a fair criticique, sounds more like the world’s biggest nitpick.
If you are nothing enjoying the run, it’s fair to drop the book, but this “review” who you did is not a good one.
I am severily dissapointed by these developments. Then again, I have never enjoyed Spencer’s run. Only reason why I read it was this mystery. I was actually interested: will he go for the obvious choice or will he do something interesting? Well, we all know what happened.
Here’s what I think happened:
After the “deal of the century” Mephisto has warped everything but Harry. Well, he sort of did. He left pre-OMD one in Hell, and yet he created also a new one whoce history of “resurrection isn’t a lie (we don’t want to make Slott’s run meaningless, don’t we?). And since Harry always had the softest spot for MJ in his heart he musn’t took kindly the deal Peter had.
What I think wil happen:
Well, this one’s obvious! What do you think? NOTHING! That’s Marvel we are talking about! The Status Quo will not be changed! So I guess we can expect something like this:
1) The sins will return to their owners after Kindred’s defeat (Norman, Nefaria, juggernaut, etc are supposed to be villains! Not soft-hearted sinless crybabies!)
2) Kindred-Harry will either be merged with the resurrected one or will just be banished into nothing. Either way – Harry lives! Because we can’t kill a character from the main cast!
3) I think the biggest change is gonna be with sin-eater, I think he is actually gonna be established as the demon. Oh, and he isn’t dead, he will come back later to trash the “webinar”. I wonder on whose side is he gonna be though. Maybe he is even gonna have revenge on Kindred-Harry.
4) Peter and MJ will remember about OMD and… NOTHING WILL HAPPEN! Because Marvel overlords (we all know that Marvel is run by Mephisto) hate this couple and they WON’T EVER let them marry or MEPHISTO FORBID, have children! We will have a hint, that the “marriage” is gonna be reactified in the future and then they will just drop this plot. Because Marvel.
5) Oh and the last one, webinar is gonna be as useless as ever.
P.S. Yeah, I am the guy, who thought that Kindred was Kraven (and that would have been the best pick!)
P.S.S. Spencer has also RUINED the Sin-eater for me. His’ is the worst version out of four. For Pete’s sake! He hasn’t even qouted Bible once!
P.S.S.S. Also I just don’t see how Harry would ascend in the hierarchy of Hell, unless Mephisto just let him. Out of Mysterio and Harry, I’d say that Quentin would have better chances.
P.S.S.S.S. I am dropping the book, I will visit this site in december just to confirm that what I predicted came true.
P.S.S.S.S.S. And the last prediction. Spencer? Who? You mean Hydra-cap guy?
@Chi-Town Spidey — I kinda just assumed Kindred was pre-OMD Harry (given the Mephisto-related context, devil-deal ramifications, etc.) That begs the question — Where is the post-OMD Harry? Does anyone remember where he was last seen? That might shed some light on your question, Chi-Town.
By the way, if Kindred turns out to be post-OMD Harry, I’m going to start referring to him as Centi-Lyman.
Or how about — Harry’s Sp’rite: The one with Lyman. (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
“Anyone ready for Deb to make a comeback? By the way, whatever happened to all of those books she had? Did they just go blank? She wrote those to make money for her mother’s surgery or something, so I guess that’s another casualty Kindred can add to the list.”
*heavy sigh* Mark is having a field day with that. Wonder if Kindred is PRE or POST OMD Harry..
@Mark — Yeah, I think one of Spencer’s strengths is his ability to work with dangling plot threads and weave them into a coherent narrative. To place hows and whys over simple shock value is admirable, in my book. Well, his book. The fact that he mentioned this explicitly in an interview earlier this year illustrates how important that is to him. Like you, I’m most intrigued as to how this will be explained. I’m glad he doesn’t take that lightly — That’s what makes a good story, after all!
@Jack Brooks – I look at the “He thinks he knows who I am” as a red herring that it is actually Harry. On the one hand, it looks like it means that Norman thinks it is Harry, but it is really not. On the other hand, it could mean, “He thinks I’m the same weak son he’s always known, but I’m different now and powerful and can’t be bullied by him any longer.” I think he was meaning the second, rather than the first.
Letter pages or not, if that reflection of Harry is supposed to be anyone else, then it is not a red herring, it is just an out and out lie. That is a very distinctive hair cut.
Of course this is comics and anything can change. Spencer/editorial did a disservice by waiting so long to get to this point that there is no way that everyone are going to be satisfied. I’m enjoying it and I think there is really two areas here that Spencer was hoping to get a reaction. From the newer audience, we have the “Wow! Harry? Wow!” and from us, the more continuity entrenched audience, “”Harry, huh? OK, how? Why? Wow me, Spencer.” I’m excited for the how and the why. I was going to be OK with almost any reveal as long as the how and the why are waiting to wow me. But since it took so long, there are going to be several people checking out here and not waiting for the how or why.
But as for me and my house – we are loving it and hopeful to still be loving it come December! This arc will have a major impact on Spencer’s reputation. If he blows it, that will be two fan upsets and will be a blot on his record for quite a while. If he nails it, then no one is going to keep thinking Nazi Cap when they think of Spencer. I’m rooting for the guy!
Whatever the case, I see no future for Harry after this. When all is said and done, Harry will be back in the grave where he was before OMD.
And more screwballs to throw: Kindred calls the Stacys “family.” Harry wasn’t related to them. Also, someone on Reddit claims the reference to Harry on the letters page is ambiguous.
Here, just to screw us up even further:
Kindred, #37: “Maybe Norman really did get under my skin back at Ravencroft. He laughed at me. Thinks he knows who I am. What I am. He’ll have a price to pay for that.”
Thinks he knows who I am?
@Evan – keep finding excuses to comment – it is what drives us to do this and if I have eleven reviews in two and a half months – I’m going to need the comments! 🙂
If Norman had said, “He’s my son, but we didn’t get the final panel, we would all still be discussing who it is, but I think the conversation now is going to have to focus on how this happened and what this means for Peter.
So glad someone is paying attention to my stupid references. I’ll do my best to work in some BttF ones for you! No promises on the Shawshank Redemption, though. Still not a fan no matter how often you and Hornacek quote it to me.
Yeah, those comics are worthless, but I hardly think we can blame Spencer fire that!
Webinar! That is AWESOME! That’s better than EOoW by far!
@Mark — See, this is what I was looking for last issue. I guess if Harry’s mentioned by name in the letter section that clinches it, although I was expecting this review to have a picture of Kindred sans bandages or Kindred’s own statement or something so we’d have unequivocal evidence. As Jack Brook says below, “…Norman has two sons.” It could be the red herring that you spoke of.
Anyway, all of this is just an excuse to comment and say that I appreciate that this review had Psycho, Michael Jackson, and Lord of the Rings references. (But no Shawshank Redemption? Geez! Actually, if I were a reviewer for this site, I probably wouldn’t last very long because I’d keep working Back to the Future references into my reviews.)
I bought nearly issue from the Slott run (having stupidly figured that One More Day was a good time to get back into it) only to learn that that wasn’t Harry? All those comics are worthless now! Just kidding — They kinda were anyway.
By the way, at least the Order of the Web isn’t called the Webinar.
@xonathan – I can’t argue with you in the “it took too long for the reveal”. I don’t think anything would have been lost if the reveal happened right after Kindred left Ravencroft. That’s when it was mostly locked in to being Harry. Though I don’t mind the double-blind. Mysteries will often make it look like someone, which you dismiss because it is way too early in the story to be that person, then circle back to it later. But you are right in that we could have been brought to that and then given a red herring to take us away from it – like seeing Harry and Kindred together or something.
@Michael and @Jack Brooks
Michael – I know the Sanctum has security, but a mind confused hero seems to be a major weak point considering how many mind controllers there are in the 616 universe. Plus, Silk is full our demonic here. I think the problem is more to do with plot-based security, which is similar to the strength of Spider-Man’s plot-based webbing formula. I don’t always mind these things, but I do so love to poke fun of them! I must have missed them calling Harry in the letters pages. I was being distracted by Chi-Town who kept sending me laughing GIFs. 🙂
Jack Brooks – Yeah, he’s going to be getting on Wong about that subscription lapse! And yes – Madam Web is utterly useless. It was funny in the old comics when Spidey would be swinging and you’d hear a phone ring in a random apartment and someone would stick their head out of a window and tell Spidey it was for him and it would turn out to be Madam Web! But outside of that, she rarely has anything positive to add to a story. A six year-old with a Ouija board is about as effective as figuring out future dangers. Shoot, Dr. Strange’s security consultant is more effective!
Harry was the obvious choice. Too obvious even. The only thing that threw that possibility away was that Harry was resurrected at BND. People thought it was too obvious to be true so they started throwing other names as a possibility. The reveal should have come sooner since everyone had already speculated it was Harry. Even if there were other possibilities it wasn’t a surprise. I was actually surprised for a second when he revealed the George Stacy tombstone thinking it was him. That would have been an actual surprise, but the clues didn’t make sense for that to be the case.
Also, Madame Web really is useless, isn’t she?
You would think the Sanctum would react to possessed people breaking in. I think Strange’s A vast subscription ran out.
In any case, Kindred is referred to as Harry Osborn on the letters page.
“Unfortunately for Spidey and Strangey, his house has less security than my local elementary school ”
The Sanctum has powerful mystic defenses- the problem is that they don’t always react to mind-controlled heroes.
@Jack Brooks – I did too, at first and was prepared to hold out that Norman’s “son” could be Harry, Gabriel, or even a form of Peter (since Norman refers to him as a son). But once I realized that is a reflection, then I was certain that this wasn’t a tease reveal, but the actual thing.
Oh, I totally misread that pic. It’s a mirror! I thought it was Norman, looking pensive.
@Sthenurus & @Jack Brooks – I don’t think so. That is Osborn hair and Gabriel didn’t have Osborn hair.
@Andrew – No hint yet, but I think the implication is that whatever was there – the Harry Lyman version – is not the real Harry. Maybe a demon. Maybe half of Harry’s soul. Still a lot for Spencer to flesh out.
Dare I say — Norman has two sons.
Ok… So it’s Harry? How? Wasn’t he with Liz and normie in the venom side of things? Or is Gabriel stacy?
I only sporadically read Spidey these days, but how can it be Harry if he was brought back already? Is the implication that the BND Harry us an imposter (maybe a clone or simulacra….or Skrull? I like those….)