Podcast # 471 Homecoming Movie Review

14 Comments

1. It was an imperfect film, and it was shallow enough that it doesn’t invite a second viewing. But I don’t think George reviewed it in the usual sense of that word, because he rejects the MCU’s starting formula. The MCU proceeds on the principle that the Lee/Ditko stories are not exclusively authoritative. Rejecting the MCU’s philosophy is similar to a fundamental Baptist who believes the King James is the only Bible — one doesn’t review modern Bibles, one simply rejects them. That isn’t a “review” to me.

   Even though I agreed with many of George’s particular complaints, I don’t reject the film on that micro-cellular level.

2. Spiderman Homecoming- I enjoyed it, but I also liked parts of Amazing Spiderman 2 so you can suck on this opinion. Spiderman 2 is still the best Spiderman movie, Spiderman 2 is the best spiderman videogame, spectacular spiderman is the best spiderman cartoon.

   It’s weird to have filler movies now with the cinematic universe, because while watching this movie I’m thinking about the future and two things: eat shit marvel, eat garbage sony. Sony says they’re going to make standalone venom and silver sable movies somehow that doesn’t actually have spiderman, and is just weird about how many movies they’ll actually do with marvel studios. Everything they touch in their movie division is just the worst.

   Marvel actively hates spiderman continuity, forcing a brand new day storyline where spiderman and mary jane makes a deal with the actual devil to sell their marriage memories to save a 90 yr old aunt mays life because Joe Quesada wanted to make Peter Parker a relatable bachelor, but then have that a bachelor be mind controlled by doc ock for a year, so that he could date a midget and then when parker comes back in control of his mind he finds that doc ock made him a billionaire tony stark character. Which is fine. From the 90s: Maximum Carnage, Symbiote Wars, Clone Wars, it’s was all dumb, they wanted to take out Parker and his continuity even then, but I get the feeling that Marvel want to make the Parker Spiderman just one of a rotation of with Spider-Gwen and not-my-spiderman-Miles and I don’t like it because they may succeed this time.

   I don’t like niggling slimy way of changing it all. At least by the time Superman went through the DC crisis event in 1985 and practically got killed along with old jimmy olsen, superdog, a fat lex luthor who hated superman because when superman was superboy he messed up his science fair experiment so that he lost his hair, and a spunky lois lane–the universe at least got a send off in the comics with the event, with Alan Moore and homages in future comics like All Star Superman.

   —

   The movie is fun, the highschool scenes actually make sense now, though the diversity is more accurate than the somehow white school in spiderman 1, it’s still not a korean soap opera/bollywood cast it would’ve looked like if they actually were accurate to the demographics at a specialized science hs in nyc. Keaton is a great man, Holland is solid, even the cast around him that I was suspicious of is alright. I also liked how he never actually seemed to swing around manhattan in this one, and they even forced upstate new york areas where he clearly is hampered with bits cut from issue 267 of amazing. There’s no actual theme for Spiderman and the soundtrack in general is garbage using a Ramones song that has been WORN the fuck out by constant use in commercials.

   I would’ve preferred a clean break from tony stark at the center of everything somewhere in the movie. The spider tech Stark provides has a bunch of fun uses, but just when you think it’s gonna be dropped so we get a more conventional spiderman next movie it comes back. It just is irksome to think that if things go wrong he has a tracker where an avenger could just come in as an assist character and help him out. I also liked it when Peter Parker put his face right next to Aunt May’s pussy. These movies are for children and I’m 28.

3. If the tragedy was not thrown away, the lesson was. This Peter is not responsible. The lesson in this movie is that “you don’t deserve the suit” crap that Tony says.

4. Who says the tragedy of Uncle Ben was thrown away? There is a point where Peter explains to Ned that his aunt cannot find out that he is Spider-man because of all she’s been through. What she’s been through is probably the death of her husband which could have been prevented by her nephew. It was stated in many different places that Homecoming was not going to be an origin story. The film makers were going to rely on the fact that Peter’s roots were well known after 2 previous movie runs. I read several complaints that Batman vs Superman once again showed the death of the Waynes.

   As far as some of the other complaints………..this is not the 616 version of the Marvel Universe. Peter and the FF are not the original heroes. As much as it seems to bother everyone here, this is a Tony Stark/Iron Man centric universe. I don’t see it as much of a stretch that a 15 year old budding super hero and science genius like Peter would fall under the spell of Tony Stark. I don’t get riled about it because this is not the Peter Parker I grew up reading.

   As far as the whining complaints…..again we are dealing with a 15 year old kid who is just getting his feet wet as a hero. Did Peter panic at first when the vulture brought the warehouse down on him? Of course, he’s a hero but yet still a child. I’m 50 and probably would’ve let out a few oh shits in that moment before gaining composure and lifting the building off of me as Peter did.

   I enjoyed the movie. I think one of the main reasons was that I excepted that this was a Tony Stark world, and it wasn’t going to be a word for word reselling of the 616 Peter Parker. I think one of the reasons Peter doesn’t come across as he did in the comics is that the movie version of Spider-man apparently doesn’t have a spider sense. I would say his danger sense plays a huge part in his success and confidence in the comics, but without it in the movie, Peter’s road is a much more difficult one to navigate..

5. I have never posted a comment here but last Thursday, when I saw the movie I returned home and posted a review in my blog (it’s in Spanish) and a couple of days later I read George’s opinion. I was surprised as how he was disapointed for almost the same reasons I was. I’m 39 and I have read Spidey for at least 34 years, so I believe I know a couple of things about the character. What bothers me the most of Homecoming is that this Peter is 0% responsible at the begining and I believe that happens when you take uncle Ben out of the equation as this movie did. Peter David said the Spidey is the hero with an original sin. This is the foundation of the character. You deny that and it’s like Batman without the murder of his family: even Flashpoint acknowledges that tragedy is what gives birth to Batman, so throwing that away dillutes the character and completely misses the point.

6. @Spyder – JR hasn’t written a review of the movie. He just shares his Homecoming opinion on the podcast.

7. I’m not going to attack George for having his opinion. Nobody is factually right or wrong over opinions of a movie. My only complaint is him claiming his opinion is the only right one, cause he was “right” about ASM2. This movie unlike ASM2 is one of the best critically reviewed superhero films of all time, and making gang busters in the box office. Personally I thought it was a little bit too much Tony too, and Michelle is one of the worst people in the MCU. But I still thought this movie for the most part got the Lee/Ditko high school era right with modern day twist. He still that nerdy teenager sneaking into his bedroom cause he doesnt want to give his aunt a heart attack. Tom Holland was perfect. Him hero worshiping Tony FITS in this world cause Tony been around since Peter was what 6? He grew up with IronMan in this world. Unlike the comics where IronMan came out months after Spider-man. Liz’s whole story arc is her Ditko run. Aunt May acted like a loving Aunt who worries about Peter, and doesnt want him near Spider-man, and Flash is still a dick (Not all high school asses where on the football team in real life)

8. Where would I read JRs written review of the movie

9. It’s one thing not to have classical Spidey, but another is to have one with aspects that go completely against the core of the character. His groveling and pining throughout 3/4 of the movie for Stark’s approval is a big one. His inspiration to keep going should be Uncle Ben, not Tony Stark. Due to RDJ’s popularity i get that most people will overlook that and just enjoy the ride, but some won’t. I only started to enjoy the movie when Iron Man took the suit away, And even then, Spidey had to be saved by Not-Ganke from the Shocker. Really? Who wrote this movie, Slott? But yes, if I wasn’t such a purist I would have enjoyed the movie more. And since we’re doing mental experiments, Blake I have one for you:

   Pretend it was the other way around and Sony asked Marvel to borrow RDJ for this movie and Sony kept the rights. Pretend the movie was written by Sony and there was no mention of the MCU, just Iron Man. Don’t you think people would have issues with this movie for all its changes? But since Marvel Studios did it then it’s the next best thing since sliced bread? What would the fan reaction be if SONY were the one to change Mary Jane into an awkward black angry chick? I wonder…

10. @Steve

    If there had never been a Peter Parker or Spider-Man, and Homecoming was something the MCU introduced as a brand new property then I would maybe have liked it better, but only slightly. In fact, some of the script’s failings would have been magnified. In the scenario you propose, that would be two movies without an origin story for the character (Civil War and Homecoming.)

    I didn’t need an origin retelling in Homecoming but there did need to at least be an Uncle Ben reference. As a new MCU property for something that had never existed before, we’d have had no inkling who Uncle Ben was or what had happened to Peter’s parents.

    Peter’s spastic rapid paced teenager dialogue is annoying. I never laughed once from anything Peter or Spider-Man said; making this a brand new MCU character in your scenario would not have improved that. Ned would have been just as annoying and trope-ish as the Felicity Smoak/Cisco Ramon/Winn “eye in the sky/computer genius” Oracle-type character.

    The Michelle “my friends call me MJ” moment would have born an even less impactful moment than the largely fruitless one we got.

    The film (especially the script and the weak directing that tries to make a John Hughes pastiche) had flaws beyond Tony Stark’s shadow. If Peter Parker & Spider-Man had never existed and Homecoming had showcased an original character, it still would have been problematic. Especially compared to the strengths of other Marvel flicks.

11. George,
    I understand your inability to embrace any Spider-Man that isn’t the classic version of the one we all grew up with. My question to you is this….If that classic Spider-Man never existed, and the Homecoming version was the introduction of a brand new never before seen character named Peter Parker (aka Spider-Man) would you enjoy and be interested in following the character? I’d love to hear JR’s feeling on that as well.

12. I’ve ranted more than anyone the last year. Even Berryman

13. We’re always friendly and light. Don’t believe me? Watch our YouTube streams. And if I left the podcast today you would still get swearing, so…

    But I will always rant. So will J.R.
    And Zach.
    And Ashley.
    Brad and McNulty reserve the right to, which they do about every 18 months.
    Ranting is a thing we do sometimes when we feel passionately about something and we’ll always do that when we see fit. That’s not ever going to change.

14. I’m currently listening to the episode as I’m typing this, and while I absolutely loved the movie and thought it perfectly captured the spirit of the Spidey comics unlike all of the previous movies (which I still enjoyed very much, they just didn’t capture the spirit as well as this one), I recognize aspects and changes that I would have preferred were otherwise. That being said, I found myself wanting to turn off the episode every time George started ranting about everything that was “wrong” with this universally acclaimed film and shouting over and berating his co-hosts for their comments. I unsubscribed from the Podcast in the past because of George’s rudeness and casual swearing, and may do so again if this keeps up. It’s okay to disagree with your co-hosts, but keep it friendly and light. You’re talking about Spider-Man, after all! (Just to place my opinion in context, I’ve read Spider-Man since the 80s and still think that’s the best decade for the character, so at least George and I can agree on that)