Marvel has released the checklist of how they’ve come to the numbering of Amazing Spider-Man and Venom. Did they miss a few issues? What do you think?
Amazing Spider-Man And Venom Marvel Legacy Numbering Explained
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@Jack – If you’re gonna include RYV, then you should also include Spider-Man: House of M. Both are mini-series that fit into a company-wide event going on that reshapes all of reality.
Don’t understand why RYV and Superior are included. Bottom line, regardless of how anyone may feel about the Superior run, it’s about the title. It is simply not “Amazing” – it’s a different title.
smiley face !
@OldGuy – Based on your username, when I read about your struggles with Excel I thought of this: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png
Nevermind – I tried to post an Excel spreadsheet – It came across illegible.
LEGACY NUMBER CALCULATIONS:
October, November 2017 Legacy
Numbering
2017
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN
The Amazing Spider-Man – Vol 1 (1963) 1 Mar-63 441 Nov-98 441
The Amazing Spider-Man – Vol 2 (1998) a 1 Jan-99 58 Nov-03 58
subtotal 499
Vol 2 (1998) b restored numbering 500 Dec-03 700 Feb-13 201
259 259
Vol 2 (1998) c – ( Point One Numbering) 654.1 ( Apr 2011) 1 (not included)
679.1 ( Apr 2012) 1 (not included)
699.1 ( Mar 2013) 1 (not included)
700
not
included
Superior Spider-Man (2012) a 1 Mar-13 31 Jun-14 31
Misc Late Numbering
Amazing Vol 2 (1998) d late – (funky Point numbering) 700.1 Feb-14 700.5 Feb-14 5 (not included)
Superior (2012) b late 32 Oct-14 33 Nov-14 2
The Amazing Spider-Man – Vol 3 (2014) a 1 Jun-14 18 Jul-15 18
The Amazing Spider-Man Vol 3 (2014) b : Spiral
Mini-Series (Gerry Conway) – (funky Point numbering) 16.1 May-15 20.1 Oct-15 5 (not included) (only SM comic Aug, Sept, Oct 2015)
(cbs thinks- could be included)
Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows
Mini-Series (2015) Alternate Universe (Dan Slott) 1 Aug-15 5 Nov-15 5 (alternate universet)
(cbs thinks – should not be included)
The Amazing Spider-Man – Vol 4 (2014) a 1 Dec-15 32 Nov-17 32
Vol 4 (2014) b Amazing Grace – (funky Point numbering) 1.1 Feb-16 1.6 Sep-16 6 (not included)
total counted before Legacy Numbering 788
The Amazing Spider-Man – Vol 4 (2014) c
starts Legacy numbering (released Oct 11, 2017) 789 Dec-17 through ?
@Old Man Tex
The series ended with # 31, but they added two more issues, #s 32 & 33 during the Edge of Spiderverse Crossover.
Can someone please explain where the 33rd issue of superior ties in. Even if you include Avenging Spider-man 15.1 there was only 31 issues.
I think it looks like Peter is being shot in the elbow on that #789 cover.
Renew your vows should not be included. It an alternative world title.
Though do like the idea he is going back to the original suit. Not of fan of the tech glow spider suit
“Scheme” is the perfect word to describe this…
You guys do whatever you want.
I am going to say that Marvel got the number right, take the Marvel Legacy Promo Graphic and cut & paste “Amazing Spider-Man (2014) #16.1-20.1” next to the #752-756 citation. I will use the suspicious looking ‘plus’ sign as an asterisk and note that these 5 issues were actual Spider-Man stories in an actual Spider-Man Continuing Series that came out at the same time as the Alternate Universe Renew Your Vows.
I will then put this modified graphic into a comic bag and file it between Amazing Spider-Man(2015)#32 and Amazing Spider-Man #789.
From my perspective – Nuff Said.
@Will: The Super Specials were the annuals for that year so realistically it makes sense not to count them…hence counting the one for Venom (alongside the non-canon Dark Origin) is utterly cheap. I let it slide for Venom because it restored Eddie Brock but not for ASM.
@Living Tribunal
Objection!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DJm8nHnMRg
What about Clone Conspiracy #1-5 and Clone Conspiracy Omega? If you didn’t read those and just read the ASM issues, Clone Conspiracy was an incomprehensible mess.
And what about all the Spider-Verse tie-ins which if you weren’t reading them left SV an incomprehensible mess? (I see a pattern here)
Not only was Amazing Scarlet Spider 1-2 (Which replaced ASM while it was not published) but the ASM Super Special was also not included…yet the Venom Super Special was.
…How the flying Hell can Superior Spider-Man #32-33 count as ASM #732-733 when they came out AFTER ASM (2014) #1 which is apparently #ASM #734?
This is just a cheap tactic to get us as close to ASM #800 as possible.
I’m agreeing with the Living Tribunal and Al – this number works for me. I can see arguments against it, but the arguments for it work as well, so no problem for me. Plus, the sooner we get to 800, the sooner we get a new writer, so I’m OK with it (until I see how the new writer does…).
So sayeth Mark, so the debate is settled.
@ Hornacek
You must be an attorney like me. I guess we agree to disagree.
@Living Tribunal
“Obviously Marvel could not, nor should they, include every Spider-man mini series ever published ( and I am not defending Marvel. I’m just making sense of their choices).” Agreed. This should only count issues of Amazing Spider-Man in the 616 universe that were part of that title. If ASM was cancelled (even temporarily) then any replacement series should not be counted (in my opinion).
“Again, Superior and RYV continued on where the ‘Amazing’ title left off, otherwise there would be a gap in publishing of the Spider-Man story.” Well, years from now someone could read ASM and skip the RYV series and there would be no gap whatsoever.
“RYV could have been left off the legacy numbering, but I can see why they included it. It was the continuation of the Spider-Man story during Secret Wars., and while there was no other ‘Amazing’ title running at the same time.” Again, if you didn’t read Secret Wars, you would have no idea there was any Spidey story during SW if you only read ASM. There are no gaps or confusion if you go from the last issue before RYV to the first issue after RYV. Plus, with that logic, Spider-Man: Chapter One should be counted because ASM was not running at that time.
“Furthermore there is precedent for the above. All the Heroes Reborn issues of Cap, IM, Avenegers and FF count toward the legacy numbering even thuogh those were alternate universe versions of our beloved characters.” Incorrect precedent should not be used as precedent for future mistakes. 🙂
@Al – Good point, I hadn’t thought of that! Although, Marvel had said that this (Ben) was the real Spider-Man, so you could actually say that everything from ASM #150 up until Spider-Ben started should not be counted either (holds head to soothe headache).
All of this makes for healthy debate. Bottom line, I think the answer can be found by looking to the “spirit” of how they arrived at the legacy numbering, rather than whether Peter Parker appeared or was featured in the run. Obviously Marvel could not, nor should they, include every Spider-man mini series ever published ( and I am not defending Marvel. I’m just making sense of their choices). Again, Superior and RYV continued on where the “Amazing” title left off, otherwise there would be a gap in publishing of the Spider-Man story. Yes it is true that Peter barely appearded in Superior, but this was a continuation of the story from issue 700. The cast was essentially the same, sans Peter. RYV could have been left off the legacy numbering, but I can see why they included it. It was the continuation of the Spider-Man story during Secret Wars., and while there was no other “Amazing” title running at the same time. Furthermore there is precedent for the above. All the Heroes Reborn issues of Cap, IM, Avenegers and FF count toward the legacy numbering even thuogh those were alternate universe versions of our beloved characters.
@hornacek. By that logic though the Ben Reilly era should not count
Also how the fuck does superior count when issues #32-33 happened in tandem with ASM vol 3
@Jack
”
“We know the original RYV series wasn’t Peter, because “our” Peter was on that raft with the other heroes.” See, I *don’t* know that because it was never in ASM. I assuming that was shown in the Secret Wars book. So if I’m just reading ASM, I would think Peter disappeared in the final panel before RYV, then suddenly appeared in RYV in a different universe, and then suddenly reappeared in 616 in the first panel of the first ASM issue after RYV ended.
“Superior is a different kettle of fish, because Peter’s mind was present (suppressed by Ock) the whole time, even though Ock took center-stage, and eventually re-emerged as the protagonist.” Peter is barely in SSM – from issues 1-10 (?) he is Ghost Peter and appears sporadically through the book but he has zero impact (until Ock detects him and erases him), then he appears in the final issues and doesn’t actually reappear until the final 1.05 issues. Ock is the main character of that series (except for the final issue) and to me it’s not a Spider-Man series.
@Living Tribunal – You could also say that instead of RYV “replacing” ASM, ASM was cancelled and Superior Spider-Man was a completely separate book.
Spiral
I agree that alt-u series shouldn’t be included. We know the original RYV series wasn’t Peter, because “our” Peter was on that raft with the other heroes. Superior is a different kettle of fish, because Peter’s mind was present (suppressed by Ock) the whole time, even though Ock took center-stage, and eventually re-emerged as the protagonist.
@Hornacek
There is a distinction to be made. House of M Spider-Man (or any other such crossover Spider-Man mini-series for that matter) was a mini-series that did not replace the regular ongoing book. Superior and RYV did replace the ongoing Spider-Man book during their tenure.
@Living Tribunal
But in the Rhodey example, and in Superior, the comic was no longer about the original character (Tony Stark and Peter). Therefore it was a different book.
And RYV, no matter how good it was, was an alternate reality story that had no impact on the character or anyone in the 616 universe. Aside from Regent showing up later in 616, but you could skip RYV and read that later Regent story and not miss anything.
“… it follows the universe altering storyline of Secret Wars. and therefore is in continuity.” Not trying to be rude, but … so what? If you just read ASM you have no idea that Secret Wars actually happened. There’s zero impact on Spider-Man. And if you include RYV, why not include Spider-Man House of M? It was a “universe altering storyline of House of M Wars and therefore is in continuity”
“But it is weird how they’re counting runs like Superior and RYV when they’re titles that have nothing to do with 616 Peter.”
I disgree. Superior Spider-Man continues the store in the same way as when Rhodey replaced Tony during the mid one hundreds of Iron Man (1968).
As to RYV I can see it both ways. On the one hand it is a “What If” kind of series, and maybe should not be counted, but on the other hand it follows the universe altering storyline of Secret Wars. and therefore is in continuity.
I think that asterisk is just one big plus symbol you’re looking at.
But it is weird how they’re counting runs like Superior and RYV when they’re titles that have nothing to do with 616 Peter. Realistically, it should be more like #751 rather than #789, which doesn’t help quell my theory that they’re just cramming whatever they can into Spidey’s listing so that they can hit the 800 benchmark faster.
@Old Guy – Technically, neither does Superior Spider-Man. Peter is “dead” for the entire run except for the last 1.05 issues, and his “ghost” is gone for most of it. It’s not Peter Parker, Spider-Man.
Well at least they put an asterisk next to “Amazing Spider-Man: Renew You Vows (2015) # 1-5 ” which has absolutely no reason to be included in this numbering scheme.