Podcast # 410 Friday Night Civil War Fight

15 Comments

1. Yeah, Al, bunches of action, like Peter stripping to his Michael Jordan Hanes and yelling at Venom to “You want me? Take me! I’m yours!” Then we get that epic of panel of Peter and Eddie in their underwear with pseudopod tentacles from the symbiote stretched between them before they both experience La Petit Mort.

   AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

2. @#2: The only Spider story remotely worthy post 2007 would either be Scarlet Spiders #3 (not gonna happen) or else perhaps something from Spider-Girl.

   I do have a suggestion though. What If Back in Black, where Spider-Man beats on Iron Man in a world where Mj died from the Kingpin’s sniper.

   @#6: Kingpin has been able to stand up to Spidey through a combination of Spidey not being at 100% and/or holding back. Spidey holds back his strength both consciously so as to not hurt normal people (and even super foes) but also subconsciously because some part of him is aware of how much damage he can cause to someone.

   In an issue of Amazing Spider-Man Family J.M. DeMatteis did a whole story where teen Spidey realizes how strong he really is and is horrified by it.

   @#12: George if your considering only doing ASm #300 could I please suggest instead you doing the SECOND Venom storyline. It is the one on the beach and has a lot more action to it.

3. @12 – Save covering ASM #300 for Brad’s birthday.

4. @1 – “This is a kinda recent fight. Is someone sick???”

   This would be the last story I’d be comfortable with doing a Fight Club for. This was the last good ASM story before everything fell to complete crap Spider-wise.

   There are some fights from the late 90’s and early 2000’s that I might still consider doing – almost all of them drawn by John Romta Jr.

   My standing rule of “No clone stuff, no Morlun, no totems, no symbiotes” still applies, though I’d consider doing ASM #300. But just ASM #300.

5. The two word phrase I especially note from The Berryman Archive is “severe inhibitions” (see above), which helps explain a lot. I remember Spidey having trouble dealing with a flimsy little martial-artist girl named Firefly, and me thinking, “This is ridiculous.” But then in the same story Spidey finally explodes, and nearly crushes her with a huge metal apparatus.

6. It’s easy to write Kingpin off as ‘fat guy.’ But Kingpin doesn’t just have experience against Spider-Man. He also has experience against Daredevil and at one point even fought Captain America (and Falcon) and held his own against both. In fact, several times he managed to get the upper hand against Cap (Cap Vol. 1, #147). Fisk also engages in regular physical conditioning and martial arts training.

   In his early fights against Spidey, Spidey was often at a disadvantage, such as physical injury.

   From the Marvel wiki:

   http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Wilson_Fisk_%28Earth-616%29

   The Kingpin is composed almost entirely of muscle that has been developed to enormous size, much like a sumo wrestler, and he possesses peak human strength with only the bare minimum actually being fat. His vast bulk shields him from many forms of injury, either providing padding or causing penetration wounds to only strike him relatively superficially. He has extraordinary skill in hand-to-hand combat, specializing in a number of martial arts, including sumo wrestling, judo, and hapkido. His fighting skills and unusual agility for a man of his size compensate for a great difference between his human level of strength and that of Spider-Man when the two engage in unarmed combat (Spider-Man also has severe inhibitions about using his strength against an opponent without superhuman powers for fear of killing him or her.) The Kingpin is a criminal genius and a highly skilled planner and organizer. He employs numerous henchmen, scientists, and even superhumans, almost all of whom are fiercely loyal to him due to dedication, fear, or both.

   …

   The Kingpin possesses the peak human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. The Kingpin is virtually as strong as it is possible for a man of his age, height, and weight to be without having superhuman strength. His great bulk does not consist of fat as it seems to be but of muscles that have been developed to enormous size, as in a sumo wrestler. The Kingpin has demonstrated strength sufficient enough to crush Spider-Man’s webshooter without intent, casually fling open his large vault door with one arm; when others such as Daredevil have struggled to open it with two arms, lift and use his heavy oak desk and a large sofa as weapons, and crush people’s skulls without effort. His strength is nearly superhuman.

   From regular ol’ Wikipedia:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_%28comics%29

   While the Kingpin has no superhuman powers, he is incredibly strong and significantly durable above the average human, possessing remarkable strength concealed by his somewhat corpulent appearance. Most of his body mass is actually muscle that has been built to extraordinary size, much like a Super Heavyweight sumo wrestler or some Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters but at greater strength levels. He has been shown to be strong enough to hurl large men across a room, rip limbs from people (demonstrated under a handshake), crush a man’s skull with his bare hands, and leave imprints in concrete walls after punching them. Defying his size, the Kingpin is a master of many forms of armed and unarmed combat, especially sumo wrestling. His signature move is the bear hug. He once fought Captain America to a standstill in hand-to-hand combat

7. The justification for Kingpin’s strength seems to be: “Approximately 2% of my body mass is fat. Allow me to show you what 350 lbs. of muscle is capable of.”

8. Yes, but he should still have always been able to defeat Fisk with ease, even when Spidey was holding back. Anyway, Fisk has been a good villain, but, physically, he’s just a huge, strong man. He’s better matched to Daredevil.

9. @#6 – Isn’t the common theory that Peter’s always been holding back so he doesn’t kill Fisk?

10. As good as this story was, I’ve never understood the Kingpin’s ability to physically stand up to Spider-Man. Maybe I can accept it from Spidey’s earliest days, when he was just a teen. But even back then, teen Spidey was able to bend a street lamp with a punch. He can bend back a screwdriver with his finger. Has there ever been an explanation for Wilson Fisk’s fortitude that made sense in context?

11. I’d have to disagree wth your verdict that Peter would have killed Norman if not for the glider. He actually stops himself *before* that point. In fact, immediately before Gobby gets impaled, Peter tells him he’s going to prison.

12. Still my favorite arc with JMS. Sad to say it was his true swan song, taking Spider-Man to the edge and at the same time keeping him Peter Parker.

13. Just been re-reading through this era recently, and the Back In Black 5-parter by JMS in Amazing is a highlight. I don’t always want to see Peter portrayed this way, but damn if it doesn’t ring more true than anything they’re currently doing with him.

14. Has there been a FNF from a story after this one? It’s hard to think of one that would be worthy, since most fights post-OMD have Spidey either (a) losing embarrassingly badly (“Oh, that Parker luck!”), or (b) only winning because he had superhero help.

    If I had to choose one I’d say … the Spidey/Ock fight in ASM #700? But that one, or anything post-OMD, are not jumping out at me as something worthy of FNF.

15. This is a kinda recent fight. Is someone sick???