As George Berryman alluded in his post “Sony Emails: Kevin Feige’s Notes on Amazing Spider-Man 2,” the emails from Sony Pictures Entertainment which had been previously released by North Korean hackers last November have been posted online as a searchable database by WikiLeaks. Among the over 173,000 emails and 30,000 documents are, of course, lots and lots of inter-departmental discussions regarding Spider-Man both before and after the release of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014).
As some of you may be aware, prior to their arrangement with Marvel Studios, Sony was attempting to build a competing film franchise centered around the Web-Head, one of them being a proposed Sinister Six film by Cabin in the Woods (2012) writer/director and Netflix’s Daredevil creator, Drew Goddard. But what exactly would such a series of future Spider-Man films have looked like, especially since there’s only so many supporting characters and villains within Spidey’s world for Sony to use? Well buried within the deep black hole of the Sony emails, we have some idea thanks to a proposal written by Sony Pictures’ Executive Director of Creative Advertising at Screen Gems, Juan Capdet.
In a November 15, 2014 dated email under the subject heading “Thoughts on a Franchise,” Capdet opens his proposal with the following:
So I have been doing a lot of thinking… over the past weeks we have seen both Marvel (who have a tight plan) and DC/WB (who look like they might finally be getting their shit together) make huge announcements for the future of their slates and franchises. On the other hand, we have been assailed by rumour after rumour of bizarre spin-offs (Aunt May) or that Spidey is going to be sold or loaned back to Marvel. What we need is a solid plan for the future. Clearly laid out for the next five years at least that shows the fanship and the public that Spidey is still in safe hands. I also believe that this studio needs a dedicated Spider Division that runs as a studio within the studio. Marvel and DC Entertainment are successful because there are dedicated resources and teams that just focus on these properties. We need that here.On that note, here are my ideas for the future of the franchise. These are just rough outlines but I think could be a good start to the path to success. I thank you in advance for humouring me by listening to me. Looking forward to your thoughts…
And what would this “five year plan” have consisted of? Well, get ready, folks, because Capdet’s idea, along with Sinister Six, included seven–yes, seven!–additional Spider-Man sequels and tie-ins:
Amazing Spider-man: Kraven (in Sinister 6 slot in 2016) – in a never before move we do a prequel to ASM2, Gwen is still alive. Norman is still alive but increasingly getting sicker. He has seen and heard of Spider-man/Peter Parker (following the events of ASM1) and having seen that he was wounded by the police shooter has hired a Russian big game hunter, Kraven, to track him down and bring him in. Norman believes that in Peter’s blood is the key to cure him. Kraven ultimately captures Peter/Spidey and supplies Norman with vials of his blood. Norman, in an attempt to synthesize a cure, actually ends up becoming the original Goblin and transforms like the Ultimate version. Spidey and Gobby battle it out with Gobby running away weak and which leads us to the frail state that we see Norman in ASM2.
So in other words, The Amazing Spider-Man 1.5. Or rather the version of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Sony wished they had done in hindsight, if only to have Spidey actually fight Norman Osborn on-screen, and get Emma Stone back in the role of Gwen Stacy.
After this would be Sinister Six, which Capdet suggested for a 2017 release, followed by this:
Spider-man 2099 (2nd half 2017)- this is our Captain America-type franchise. Instead of a period WWII film, we have a futuristic New York in the year 2099. Miguel O’Hara origin story (heads up genetics department at Alchemax and becomes Spider-man). He is up against the evil conglomerate Alchemax and trying to battle either Morlun (who will chase him through time to devour him) or Kron Stone (Venom 2099). In the end the villain is defeated while battling at Alchemax and Miguel/S2099 ends up being sent back in time to present day NYC. This leads into a team up with 616-Spidey to take down Carnage (Payoff level event)
So Miquel O’Hara would’ve been Sony’s version of “Captain America?” Interesting comparison, to say the least. And Morlun as the big bad? Sounds like someone was reading Dan Slott’s “Spider-Verse.”
As for the “Payoff level event” involving Carnage? Well, that involves the next proposed three films:
ASM: Venom (first half 2018) – Eddie Brock Jr “ultimate” origin story but with some 616 details. In the end Spidey defeats Venom and sends him to Ryker’s. Coda shows the birth of Carnage
ASM: Black Cat (second half 2018) – Felicia Hardy gets properly introduced. We see her get her “luck powers” from Wilson Fisk/Kingpin. Eventually she has an encounter with Spidey and it ends with an understanding that she is not the bad person she appears to be.
Carnage (2019) – the event that everyone has been wanting. Cletus Kasady makes his debut and it will take a team-up like no other to take him down. Peter/Spidey, Miguel/Spider-man 2099, Venom and Black Cat join forces to bring him to justice. This would be a hard PG-13 with the possibility of an unrated bloodier version for home entertainment.
In other words, Capdet’s answer to Marvel’s The Avengers (2012) was essentially a loose adaptation of “Maximum Carnage.” But if you think that’s crazy, get a load of what the proposed first film of their potential “Phase 2” was:
ASM: Jackal (second half 2019) – Dr Miles Warren had fallen in love with Gwen when she interned at Oscorp. When she died he blamed Spidey for her death and vowed vengeance. He attempts to clone her but fails. Instead using the blood and tissue samples that Norman had Kraven acquire he creates two low-grade clones of Peter, one who will eventually Ben Reilly and the other Kaine. He uses these to clones to unleash chaos on the city and not until Spidey defeats them and figures out that they are the same can the bring down Jackal. Here we see the birth of Scarlet Spider.
Yes, you are reading this correctly, Spider-fans. Sony was so desperate when it came to holding on to Spider-Man, they were seriously considering doing a film version of the “Clone Saga.” At least there’s small comfort that it wouldn’t have nearly been as long and convoluted as it was in the comics.
And what about the other Spider-Man characters? Well, Capdet, apparently a big fan of Peter David’s recent run on Spider-Man 2099, suggested they do a sequel:
Spider-man 2099 2 (first half of 2020) – Miguel is stuck in the present day but is trying to get back to 2099. However he must keep Tiberius Stone (his future grandfather) alive or his whole existence will cease. S2099 encounters Mac Gargan, Scorpion and they battle it out. But will Miguel get back to his time…
Now if you’re looking over these proposed projects and are starting to think the folks at Sony must have been out of their minds, wait until you see some of the ideas which were tossed around for The Sinister Six. This–along with one idea for their Spider-Man female solo film, and how Emma Stone could reprise her role as Gwen Stacy despite the character being killed off–I’ll share for next time.
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Some of this plans are true. Venom, carnage, what’s next? It’s probably the Sinister 6.
I actually like all these film ideas. I’m a little sad we’re not getting any. I’m confused by “Carnage (2019) – the event that everyone has been wanting.”. I’ve not heard anyone clamoring for a Carnage movie. I know I’d go see it but then the only Spider-man media I haven’t watched was the newest cartoon. I even watched Spider-man: Unlimited all the way to the bitter end. More than once.
@1- He creates two low-grade clones of Peter… Huh. Sounds like Slott when he was creating Silk and SpOck. That makes much more sense now that I think about it.
“… they were seriously considering doing a film version of the “Clone Saga.”
I would have happily endured 20 bad Clone Saga films if they were followed by a good Scarlet Spider film.
Or more: a good Scarlet Spider with Kaine in Houston film. Seriously, for me that series was so good that I think anyone who reads it will forgive Clone Saga forever.
@19 – I’m with you, I really think Spider-man would be best as a tv series!
@19 – “How would Morlun’s mere presence immediately make a movie as bad as spider verse?” – Because Morlun would lead to the horrible mystic Spider-Totem concept. Even if they took that out then his motives and character would have to be totally re-written and then whats even the point of including him and not just creating a new character.
@19 – “Man, is there anything you guys WOULD like to see?”
Oh Hell yes. And almost all of them came out before the 1990’s. 😎
Man, is there anything you guys WOULD like to see?
There have been plenty of bad movie adaptations of good stories, why not vice versa?
It seems really stupid to have such prejudice against certain characters or ideas, what’s so bad about a story where Peter meets two clone brothers or has to keep an unruly team of anti heroes together to face the ultimate killer? How would Morlun’s mere presence immediately make a movie as bad as spiderverse?
Although Seven movies in five years seems a bit much It’s not that unreasonable if sony meant for Spidy to compete with the entire rest of the marvel U (we all know he could take all those mooks). Being manufactured so quickly they probably would’ve been bad but who knows?
In the end, these are just ideas being thrown out by someone inviting a conversation to help refine them with his colleges who didn’t think it would be made public. If you want to snicker and snort while invading someones privacy go ahead but I’m out.
Spider-man would make a much better tv series anyway.
Honestly the only thing missing from this list is an adaptation of One More Day, the story we’d all like to see on the big screen.
This guy showed some knowledge of administration, and no knowledge of Spider-Man.
“Carnage (2019) – the event that everyone has been wanting.”
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
I like some of these ideas, but don’t trust Sony or Avi Arad to execute them properly. I would love to see straight forward adaptations of these comic book story arcs, but done and written well. I didn’t mind ASM2, but it’s obvious is was a setup film that repeated a lot from the Raimi trilogy.
Carnage required a team up when he himself formed a team to back him up. Carnage by himself required Venom and Spider-Man, but those 2 plus Miguel + Felica+whoever would’ve been ridiculous
In fairness they could’ve just taken the gist of the idea that there were clones and done something with that but it was stuid because how do you lock an actor in for something like that?
Ha…ha ha…HA HAAHAHAAAHA…!
Maximum Carnage, and Clone Saga…
Yeah, Sony was really losing it, in their movie department.
@11 – “I wonder how Zach feels about there possibly have been the chance of a Clone Saga movie in the works.”
I also look forward to hearing Zach’s feelings about all of this. And of “low grade clones” in general. 😎
Man, it is weird reading all that. About the only thing I would have actually liked to see would have been the 2099 films, though bringing in Morlun I’m not a fan of. Though Miguel didn’t exactly have the best stable of villains from what I can recall.
The Black Cat movie could have been good too.
But the idea of Carnage as this big villain who needs a team-up to beat I find laughable. I realize they actually did that in the comics, but Carnage just doesn’t strike as the kind of villain who could carry that sort of thing.
I wonder how Zach feels about there possibly have been the chance of a Clone Saga movie in the works. They might have actually been able to condense it into something good given they couldn’t have it carry on like the comics version did.
So he was taking inspiration from both the Clone Saga and Spider-Verse. I’m legitimately not sure which one is worse. The Amazing Spider-Man 1.5 has got to be the worst of the ideas, though, since the obvious backpedaling right there is just sad.
And there we go- thanks, George.
I’m not sure why some people are doubting the legitimacy of these. You can dig through thousands of emails and documents yourself over on WikiLeaks. Hell, shoot Avi an email if you want. 😛
@4 – These emails aren’t “fanboy fabrications.” They’re the actual internal Sony emails hacked last year. They were posted to WikiLeaks last week, as reported heavily by the press.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/technology/security/wikileaks-sony-hack/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2911136/wikileaks-publishes-hacked-sony-emails-documents.html
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/04/16/400194658/wikileaks-makes-it-easy-to-access-hacked-sony-pictures-information
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/wikileaks-publishes-173000-leaked-sony-emails-5-new-revelations-2015174
http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/04/17/sony-anger-at-netflix-in-wikileaks-leaks/
http://deadline.com/2015/04/sony-hacking-david-boies-wikileaks-julian-assange-legal-letter-emails-1201412130/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wikileaks-posts-searchable-database-of-sony-e-mails-documents/2015/04/16/de9f0510-e451-11e4-81ea-0649268f729e_story.html
I kind of wish these had happened for the pure fanboy in me and the trainwreck effect because holy shit….a MAXIMUM CARNAGE movie, hahahaha
Some weird ideas posted there.
It seems odd that in that 7 film plan, there were no firm ideas for a proper ASM 3 film. Instead the guy proposed an ASM 1.5 film followed by a Maximum Carnage crossover film series? I have no idea why the guy thought doing a clone saga film series is a good idea (unless he thought that it could lead to a Scarlet Spider-man spin-off film?). The venom and black cat film ideas sounded pretty bad too.
I did like the guy’s idea for a Spider-man 2099 spin-off and having the character appear in a team-up film. The ASM 1.5 story idea would have been good idea had it been a comic book/animation tie-in instead.
On one hand, I’m really sad we’ll never see Garfield as Spidey again. On the other hand, I’m glad the Clone Saga and Venom/Sinister Six films will never be made.
I think this, along with many of the so called “leaks” have been fabricated by fan boys with too much time on their hands. None of this sounds legit.
I think this would’ve been overkill, even for Spidey fans.
That said, I would love to see a proper 2099 film. Visually, a mix of Spider-man and Blade Runner.
I also hate the idea of an ASM 1.5 as a prequel to 2.
In my opinion, ASM 1 and 2 were the best Spidey films we have ever gotten. Those films were almost flawless for me. I still maintain that if Webb and Garfield were allowed to continue with the films they originally intended to make, then the ASM series would be my personal favorite movie series of all time.
Freaking fascinating.
First off – in essence, Juan Capdet was onto something, at least, when he suggested setting up a separate ‘Spider-Studio’ within Sony, same as Disney Marvel & WB/DC had done.
But cripes! Everything else is so off the rails! They were so desperate that they were willing to go with what-the-hell-ever was being done in the comics at that time. Now on the one hand, sure – it’d be great to have a Spider-Man 2099 flick. But weighing it down (over two films no less!!) with the taint of Spider-Verse & Morlun would’ve been tragic. Just freakin’ tragic.
The bright side in all this? The Sony Hackers may have prevented a Clone Saga/Maximum Carnage tragedy from being inflicted upon us.