EW Teases Renew Your Vows

144 Comments

1. A lot of interesting discussion here.

   For background, I started reading back in the 70s so I grew up reading single Peter, then Peter with Black Cat for years. At the time in 1987, the marriage felt like a gimmick that came out of nowhere. Peter and MJ hadn’t been a serious item in years in the serious and really the marriage only happened because Stan Lee wanted to write Peter married in the newspaper strip – Jim Shooter felt they should be married in both so they hastily threw together the marriage issue in an annual that Shooter micromanaged to hell, essentially forcing Peter and MJs courtship to happen quickly instead of a gradual progression over time. It felt jarring at the time. But hey, whatever – they were married now. I figured surely the writers had some interesting stories they could tell with a married Peter, right?

   Unfortunately, all of the writers seemed to want to do was depict MJ lazing around in lingerie all the time – a cheesecake pinup – pure wish fulfillment for the young adolescent comic fans. With her big 80s hair, MJ suddenly went from a fun partygirl character with a dark broken home past to a seriously one dimensional supermodel. Cindy Crawford in comic book form. She lost all of her uniqueness.

   Whenever they tried to write some interesting conflict into the marriage it always came across forced. As in, look MJs smoking now – Peter can’t stand her smoking! MJ doesn’t want Peter to be Spidey anymore so he has to sneak around! I mean the 90s had some bad storytelling and art to begin with, but I’d be hard pressed to remember a truly great Peter/MJ story from the era. Peter’s parents? Jonathan Cesar? Maximum Carnage? I understand most of those on this board have nostalgia for that era, which I understand completely. I mean a lot of the adults reading comics now grew up during that time. But there was some truly awful writing from 1987-2001. Now – I think JMS wrote MJ great and I loved the marriage as it was written during his run from 2001-2005. I only wish that there were more examples of that kind of writing during the marriage.

   I have nothing against Peter being married and don’t prefer single Peter. What I would like is good stories told well – regardless of Peter’s marital status. Good stories is something we are not going to get under Slott, married or not.

2. I think RDMacQ has made some really good points so far. Personally I think “Renew Your Vows” is an attempt at jumping the shark….again.

   The post OMD/OMIT era hasn’t really been the success Marvel thought it would be (a modern renaissance of Lee/Ditko single Peter). In fact it’s probably the worst spider-man era to date and emphasizes everything that can go wrong with serializations.

   Spider-Island, Superior Spider-man, Spider-Verse have all been attempts by marvel to reinvigorate the series (i.e. jumping the shark) but they haven’t generated the success that marvel would have liked. “Renew Your Vows” no doubt is another attempt at this.

   From a publishing point of view it’s actually quite clever. If it does badly, they can undo it and blame it on Secret Wars. If it does well, they’ll praise Secret Wars and initiate a new status quoi (not necessarily a marriage return). In any circumstance Mephisto/OMD is never mentioned or acknowledged. However from a writing point of view, I think marvel will need to eventually acknowledge Mephisto/OMD if the series is to ever move on or grow (even if it is just a cameo of Mephisto being killed off in secret wars).

3. @#98- It was mainly on forum interactions where Slott would spring up to defend the current direction with BND. It was mostly on another site, but I clearly remember Slott arguing that people who liked the marriage were “arguing behind smokescreens” because they secretly wanted Spider-Man to grow old with them and rob future generations of the character. That people who liked the marriage didn’t understand how things worked, and that it was akin to not understanding or respecting the franchise or it’s history. I saw him equate a single Spider-Man with the days of Kirk, Spock and McCoy of Star Trek, and that not having that element is akin to robbing fans of that epic dynamic. That people who argued for a married Spider-Man were simply “arguing in a wind tunnel,” only listening to those that agreed with them and not considering the opinions of anyone else (The “everyone else” arguably being the right ones). I saw him argue that marrying Spider-Man was akin to hooking up Bruce Willis’ and Cybil Sheppards’ characters from Moonlighting, and how doing so caused the end of that series since it destroyed the series’ dynamic and appeal to the fanbase.

   So, yes, from my personal experience, he HAS stated that the marriage is a terrible thing. MULTIPLE times. And that was only ONE instance from ONE forum. God knows what he said elsewhere.

   So to go from “If you liked the marriage, you are trying to destroy the franchise” to “People are passionate about the marriage” and NOT following it up with a dismissive remark that belittles them and their opinions is a MASSIVE step in the right direction.

4. Can I ask where Slott has stated that the marriage was a terrible thing for Spider-Man? I’ve never read anything where he stated that. Then again, I haven’t really paid attention to interviews or anything involving Slott. More often than not he acts very antagonistic to the fanbase, and I’ve gotten really tired of being provoked by him.

5. @#94 & 95- I get being hesitant. I do. And there’s nothing wrong with taking what is being presented with a grain of salt.

   However, I also think it’s important to look at the information being presented, and how it’s being presented. Yes, there was a lot of disappointment in the past. But look at how that information was shown to us, and how it was advertised.

   OMIT was designed to be the “Final Nail” in the coffin of Peter/ Mary Jane, at least in regards to the marriage and their relationship therein. And it was advertised to use that way. The imagery used to promote it presented Peter and MJ’s pairing as one filled with tragedy and remorse. One that wasn’t going to lead to a happy resolution.

   The imagery used for Renew Your Vows so far has been the exact opposite. It is imagery that is romantic and encouraging. One that promotes the pairing of Peter and MJ as one that is strong and substantial. This is not the same type of advertising, which tells us that we are not going to get the same message that was presented with OMIT.

   And, again, when evaluating this information, an important question to ask is “Why?” Why would Marvel present this pairing as strong, if ALL they were going to do is to say “It doesn’t work, and it will never work and you are wrong for liking it.” What would be the point? Marvel didn’t HAVE to do a story that presented a married Spider-Man. They didn’t have to approve it. They could have gone with any other story to tell to tie into Secret Wars. What point would it make to dredge up these feelings, after one could argue that they already provided the “Final Word” on it with OMD and OMIT? They ignored the marriage for years? Why bring it up again? Why do a story that touches a nerve that is arguably still raw, just to tweak people off? What would be the point, when they left the matter alone for five years, and didn’t address it at all, in any way, in that time frame? Marvel could have arguably claimed that they “won.” That they “proved” that a single Spider-Man is “better.” And they did. So, if they already made their case, why would they feel the need to bring up the subject matter again in order to just go over ground that they already covered, and piss off a group of very vocal people.

   And I know that we may not like what Slott has to say on Spider-Man a lot of the time, but just look at what he is saying now. I remember, very clearly, that Slott was VERY quick to dismiss people who liked the marriage, or the marriage itself. People who liked it didn’t understand the character. People who liked it were selfish and entitled fans who didn’t care about anything else. People who liked it were just secretly arguing behind a smokescreen in order to rob future generations of the “great” Spider-Man stories that a single Spidey could create. And they didn’t matter anyway, because those who liked the marriage were just a small, minor, vocal minority who didn’t matter in the long run. And that doesn’t even get into his feelings on MJ, who he argued caused a lot of “tsuris” for creators, and who “robbed” other love interests from their place in the spotlight.

   Now, though? Just look at what Slott has to say about the marriage from Marvel itself: ““Spidey’s been around for over 50 years,” he says. “For close to half of that time, he was married to Mary Jane. As someone who came onto the book right after the marriage was written out, I can tell you that there’s an extremely vocal section of our readership who were—and are to this day—very passionate on this subject. And that, right there, is probably one of the single, biggest understatements I’ve ever said during a Spider-Man interview.”

   He’s not dismissing them. He’s not discrediting them. He’s not trying to make it seem like fans of the marriage are “Crazy Internet Fans” as he usually does. He’s been REMARKABLY reasonable in talking about these people. He’s pointing out their passion, but not the way he usually does, trying to dismiss them as just “haters” or in the minority. That shows an INCREDIBLE change in policy from Marvel regarding the depiction of the marriage. Before, it was insisting that the marriage wasn’t important and the people who liked it weren’t important. NOW, it’s that the fans are passionate, and that their feelings should be respected. That is an INCREDIBLE leap forward in terms of how Marvel and those within treat the marriage.

   Again, this isn’t to say that this will lead to a return of the marriage. But I also don’t think that we’ve seen anything that would tell us that this will be one big middle finger to the fanbase. If Marvel wanted to do that, then why go to such lengths? Or why not just leave it alone and ignore it? What would be the point?

6. @94 – I am in the same boat. I would really like to be proven wrong. History, however, tells me precisely what I should expect. Disappointment and a middle finger.

7. @#93

   I tell you what. If I am 100% wrong, I will accept it… HAPPILY.

8. @#88- I really don’t see that happening with this story. Given the imagery we’ve seen, I don’t think this is going to become OMIT mark II.

   Go back to 2010 to look at how that story was depicted, and the attitudes of those involved. The first image we got promoting the story was of the “2010 will be the year of Spider-Man” promo that ran at the end of 2009 (On a side note, just how well did that work out there Stephen?) with MJ in a wedding dress and Spider-Man being forced apart. Other images to promote that story involved Spider-Man holding MJ, but not in a romantic way, more in a way that showed she was distressed in some manner. Or the image of Spider-Man and MJ atop a wedding cake, with a knife cutting into it with blood being drawn. It wasn’t exactly showing images of the pair in any romantic way. Quite the opposite, it was showing images to promote their separation.

   But now? Practically all the images we’ve seen have been about Peter and MJ’s union. The couple together isn’t accompanies by images of horror or distress, but of love. They aren’t violent or traumatic. They are cute, endearing and modest. There isn’t anything that promotes that their pairing is negative in any way, or that it is headed towards ruin. Quite the opposite, as the images of them together are promoted as being positive and beneficial.

   Of the black and white preview images we’ve seen, we’ve only seen MJ get upset with Peter in a handful of panels, which is then resolved on the exact same page. The pictures of their union are joyous ones. And even the alternate images Marvel is using to promote it are done to show that this pairing is a strong and, yes, romantic one. It’s subtly supporting the pairing, not trying to imply that this pairing is heading to ruin or that it is something that is detrimental to the series.

   And also, look at how the creators are promoting it. Quesada was very open about how the marriage was a bad idea, and how it made things worse for the series. There was no doubt as to what his feelings were. The same went for Wacker and his statements regarding it. But Quesada isn’t there anymore, and neither is Wacker. Now we have Alonso and Lowe. Yes, Alonso did do that whole “You’re welcome” thing to the fan who asked him a question regarding OMD at a convention. But what do you expect him to say? That he hated it and wanted it gone. He wants to sell comics too, and it’s bad form to badmouth your company to the people who you want to buy your products. He hasn’t come out against it, but he never really supported it either.

   And just look at Lowe. He’s come out and promoted that this story will pay off. That it will be important and “Blow us away.” He’s not bragging about how pissed off we’ll be, or how this will upset us. This is more about how much we’ll enjoy it. That’s far and away from Wacker’s usual tactic of “Piss on you if you don’t like this thing we’re deliberately doing to make you mad” attitude. And Lowe has made it clear that he has “discussed resolving” Peter’s relationship issues “For the foreseeable future.”

   Hell, even look at Slott’s statements. He has no qualms about telling people the story he is telling will piss people off or make them angry. He’s BRAGGED about how angry the stories will make people. How he’d have to “Hide in a bunker” because of it. But we see none of that here. He’s being FAR more reasonable and FAR more respectful to fans who liked the marriage than he EVER has in the past. It was only a short time ago that he was telling people who liked the marriage that they secretly wanted to destroy the franchise, and that the marriage was horrible and never should have happened and if people liked it they were trying to rob the series of it’s “magic.” NOW? He’s PROMOTING the marriage (The best way he can), saying that people feel it’s important, that it’s special, that there are a group of people who DO like it and it’s OKAY for them to like it. That it took up HALF of Spider-Man’s history, and that it’s therefore something a lot of people like. Not a “Vocal Minority” as he and Wacker liked to argue a few years back, but enough of a group that they are doing this JUST for them. Again, this is a far cry from where he was at a few years ago. Not that I think Slott has amended his position. More that he’s not in a position to tell people who are fans of the marriage to piss off. But he HAS told people that this WILL be an important story and elements of it will carry forward.

   Another thing we have to consider is- if this IS supposed to be another “THIS IS WHY THE MARRIAGE CAN’T WORK”, why would they even do it in the first place? Seriously. Think about this for a second. Why would Marvel have a story featuring a married Spider-Man that will be ALL about how it can’t work, or why his relationship with MJ is bad? The people at Marvel have free will. They could have chosen ANY OTHER type of story to use to tie into Secret Wars. They chose one featuring a married Spidey. Why drag it out, just to dismiss it. They don’t need to keep beating a dead horse. Look at their attitude for the past few years. As far as the Wacker era was concerned, they “won.” They “proved” why a single Spider-Man was “superior.” And they already DID OMIT. Why would then drag things out, after the INCREDIBLY toxic reaction that story created, just to rub people’s faces in it again to tell them “Hah, hah, it can’t and will NEVER work!”

   Do I think this will lead to the restoration of the marriage? No. But I also don’t think this will be OMIT mark II, with the creators blatantly shoving it in our faces why Peter and MJ don’t work and why it’s a bad idea and why marriage is bad. Nothing we’ve seen so far supports that, and as we’ve seen FROM OMIT and FROM Slott over the past few years, if that WAS Marvel’s intent they would be promoting that attitude from the get go. I understand not wanting to get one’s hopes up. But we can’t also believe that Marvel would want to drag up an instance like the marriage, after years of pretending it never happened and years after something like OMIT provided “The final word” on the subject JUST to repeat the same story beats.

9. @89 – This was me after reading your post:

10. @89. Not as long as a response, but, well said.
    I haven’t been reading Spider-Man that long, but I am working on filling in my collection with the entire Spidey run. Marvel lost me after the clone saga, but having been away from Spider-Man for a few years, my interest was renewed with the movies and I began collecting again. Not fixing the marriage won’t keep me away, even though I’m against reading about single Peter again. I would be against reading Miles Morales as the main Spider-Man. Spider-Man will always and forever be Peter Parker. There’s no substitute.

11. “poorly” handled incidentally, age and anger have apparently withered my writing skill:)

12. I can takes no more…quoting cartoon classic Popeye. I am 45 years old and learned to read through Spider-man comics. As with many, I left the world of comics for other pursuits. I grew older, went to university, worked, got married but in 2009 my love of all things Spidey was reignited. My mother and a close friend passed away within two years of one another. I worked at a career I truly found unfulfilling and overall felt grim. Perhaps it was a coping mechanism, perhaps it was just the need to reach out for something pure and intelligent, but regardless of intent, the end goal of my embracing the world created by Steve Ditko and Stan Lee came about. Pete’s travails and loving marriage bolstered me. I started with the Stracynski run and was blown away. I did go back to the 80s and 90s resuming where I had left off and despite some missteps over the years, cough, clone saga, cough….the overall life and times of Peter Parker had deep resonance with me. I was a bright kid growing up, was bullied, overcame and pressed on. I deeply wanted a blonde gal in my early school days, but would end up meeting and marrying a redhead who I have now been with for 20 years. Things were not bad. Pete’s totem issues, friendship then betrayal via Ezekiel Simms, battles and death via Morlun were epic in scope, nigh Shakespearean in delivery in some cases but the bond/love between he and MJ was perfect. Their reunion with a Doc Doom airport story no less had due gravitas and deep emotional punch. You pulled for these two and after 20 years of marriage, loss of a child, separation, incessant threats, their relationship was a constant, beautiful thing to behold. Why should Reed Richards be the only hero who gets the happy marriage? Why shouldn’t Pete? Sure, he married a supermodel but honestly with all the @#$% he overcame routinely, one could still not envy him. Pete has it hard the best of times so why should a loving beautiful wife not be his due reward?MJ has existed since the 60s and despite some questionable depictions, she overall has remained a solid, powerful, supportive character and invaluable character in the Spiderverse. Then that happened. One More day/Omit/Brand New day. I could spend my next hour or so decrying the injustice of the Slott/Quesada run, but that is rather pointless. They do not hold themselves accountable. They are successful. Marvel is more powerful than it has ever been and I have been in line along with all of you to see M.U. forays on screen which honestly have been formidable, so truly not everything being done is wrong. The decimation of the marriage and ongoing character assassination of both Pete and MJ is something for which we must all be held accountable. This latest venture is not salt in the wound, it is blatant disrespect and as some have clearly intuited is a codicil to OMIT/BND. We are accountable if we continue to endorse this venture via purchasing it. I have not purchased a Spidey book in ages and it irritates me as he is still my favorite hero and got me through many troubling times with his ethical, honorable attitude and perseverance. The marriage acted as a moral compass to many who struggle with relationships, finances and the daily troubles we all face. One can overcome, one can achieve, ultimately one can succeed. The present arc including the elevation of a serial killing psychopath (Ock) getting a nearly two year run as PP/Spidey affronts the intellect and good will of the staunchest fan. Spider-man is tainted now. Even bringing the franchise into the existing movieverse will not remove this taint. I honestly don’t think a resolution to the current morass that is this franchise is anywhere imminent, It might even taint the epic, brilliant Avengers/Cap franchises if it is poory handled. The whole “marriage ages him and is bad” is utter tripe and flies in the face of reason. We are all getting older and unless Marvel issues an edict similar to Logan’s Run whereby at a youngish age, we are terminated as irrelevant, ours is the true power and vote. Those of us who have been fans since the onset are established, have purchasing power and as such should not be dismissed as obsolete. Young fans are included in this disrespect as you are being told that this “in your face” puerile hedonistic Spidey is the one you want and need. Bring back the marriage and get back to Peter David, Stern, Lee, Stracysnski story-telling and all will be well. Sorry to all for the lengthy sermon, but much of this has been said and needs to continue being said. We have the power to not purchase these ‘efforts’ and in time…..a very long time, perhaps the grandeur that encapsulated this legendary flagship character will return. Thanks. Incidentally, from the Back in Black series the “Book of Peter” and “To Have and to Hold” might be among the best stories every written and drawn in Marvel/Spidey history….both occurring in the darkest of times while both Pete & MJ were married. To quote the master, “Nuff Said”……..

13. @86 & 87 – That’s what I am predicting. A final “SEE?! It can’t work!!” story, despite the decades of stories where it actually, you know, worked.

14. @86 – Despite the fact that it worked for 20 years. Way to stick your heads in the sand and keep them there, Marvel!

15. You know what really worries me? Renew your Vows turning into OMIT pt II. The story may be used to further show that a married Spider-Man won’t work.

16. @84 – Valid point, though before that I did say “after the last 15 years.”

17. @#83-Since the end of 2007? Dude they were telling us the unmasking would be forever and that Back in Black was totally NOT just a movie tie-in

18. For me it’s more a case of “I will believe it when I see it.” After the last 15 years I am at a point where I don’t believe word one from Marvel publishing. Since the end of 2007 they’ve given us increasing reasons not to trust them. I go with what history tells me, and history tells me there is no reason to be positive about any of this.

    Trust me, I very much want to be wrong. But I’m not. None of the RYV news should give anyone hope; it is meant to be salt in the wound.

19. @#81-If this book ends Spider-Man and facilitates a rebooted version wherein he’s like 15 and THAT is Spider-Man now, then it’s going to have eternal elements and ramifications forever after.

20. @#76- I really don’t see how that is possible.

    I know people are concerned regarding this story, but Lowe and Slott have said elements of this story will be present in the book going forward, and it will have an impact and it WILL pay off. I don’t really see how they can insist that specific elements of the story will be present in the book going forward, and also have it be the “Final” Spider-Man story.

21. @#78 Enigma_2099 — No, and to put into proper context what Daniel’s reference:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

22. @#78-No, he didn’t show up here. I was referring to the remarks he made in the EW article. Sorry for the confusion.

23. … did I miss something? Did he show up in here?

24. Mr. Slott, what you have just said is by far one of the most insanely idiotic things I’ve ever heard in my life. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this website is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!

25. @#75-Unless those elements moving forward involve the grand finale to Spider-Man before he is rebooted.

    @#74 I actually welcome that happening at this point. Let Miles take over for awhile and leave Peter alone. He can come back eventually.

26. @#72- It is true that this could be billed as a “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow” style tale.

    But given that both Lowe AND Slott have stated that elements of this story WILL affect the book going forward and WILL pay off and WILL be important, I don’t think we can say that this will be a “Done in one” tale and be the end of it for the series featuring Peter Parker.

    Miles’ presence may be a factor, but I doubt it will be of the “Replace Peter with someone else” variety. I think Peter will remain Spidey after Secret Wars and Renew Your Vows.

27. @#72-If you recall those little stories building up to Spider Island Slott already made that point when he had a Dad with spider powers not help someone because he had to look after his chidlren

28. Well, as it turns out, it seems Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows isn’t under the “Last Days” sub-heading for Secret Wars, but for “Warzones” instead.

    http://marvel.com/news/comics/24269/secret_wars_correspondence_renew_your_vows

    And again, perhaps I’m reading way too much into this, but this statement Slott makes really does sound like something’s going to happen to Peter which will make him choose his family over being Spider-Man:

    “[He’s a] father…Husband. Hero. In that order. With great power must also come great responsibility. But what happens when you have the greatest responsibility of them all? Having a great power is something you have to share with the world. But what if two people become your whole world? What then?”

29. @#39 RDMacQ — Oh, I agree there’s a chance Marvel wouldn’t permanently retire Peter Parker as Spider-Man for the reason you said. However, let’s not forget that one of the reasons why Marvel appears to be doing this is because they’re phasing out the Ultimate Marvel line but, because Miles Morales has a pretty good fanbase, received mainstream media attention, and is good character, there is no way they’d get rid of him so they have to give him some kind of role in the greater Marvel Universe without diminishing him as Spider-Man. Plus, not forget some of the statements Dan Slott made regarding Spider-Verse which appeared to suggest that Spider-Man doesn’t necessarily have to be Peter Parker, that whatever Spider-Man was your favorite was the “real” Spider-Man.

    Also, as Al said, the “Last Days” banner would apply to stories taking place in the entire Marvel Multiverse. What’s more, even if Renew Your Vows has nothing to do with One More Day necessarily (even though Marvel.com officially designates “The Regency” as being tied to One More Day) it’s sounds at very least like a “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” version of Spider-Man.

    @#62 Al —

    Which isn’t just illogical it is OFFENSIVE to real life police officers, soldiers, etc who have families

    Oh, make no mistake, I agree that it is a fallacious argument without question. I’m just saying don’t be surprised if Renew Your Vows attempts to show this argument just as those at Marvel during the Clone Saga attempted claim the exact same thing.

30. Isn’t this already a monkey paw situation? We wanted to read about a married Peter and Mary Jane – YAY! It’s written by Dan Slott – THE MONKEY PAW STRIKES AGAIN.

31. Funny Slott loves to use the Charlie Brown football line yet he is wrong about that as well. Charlie did kick the ball and it was good. It is very sad that these people truly think so much of themselves that they know what we “need”.

    If they really knew so much overall sales of comics would be better and they would not have to reboot as a gimmick every year.

32. Slott is now against Tom Brevoort? How dare he say that Spider-man is all about responsibility when we all learnt a long time ago from the Manifesto that he is all about youth?
    The sad part is that after reading his comments, I can totally imagine how the story will unfold: some really horrible, gruesome thing will be done to MJ and little May by a crazy Eddie Brock so Peter will go berserk (end up in a cocoon again or something) and kill him and cry that he should never ever have married. And then maybe Mephisto (like that little squirrel in GLA) will convince us at the last page in a bottom right-side balloon that we really need him to help Pete out here. And then comes Amazing Spider-man volume 4 #1 with Slott and Ramos and nobody will remember anything.

33. @#1 — Well, George, at least we got some actual Spider-man-related news.

34. -read article-

    -rolls eyes-

    This is why I don’t read comics anymore because of silly stuff like this….and people wonder why we can’t have nice things anymore.

35. @#65-What he fails to recognise is that by and large MARVEL TEAM-UP WAS AWEFUL!!!!!!

    Also a blue whale is more appropriate than an elephant

36. “but if Charlie Brown kicks the football, it’s over!”

    So, if Spider-Man gets married, “it’s over!” I’m sorry to pull this card, but this was a very ignorant statement spoken by an unmarried man. Not that unmarried men can’t understand that marriage is not the end of dramatic possibility, quite the contrary! Slott should know better than this! The wedding is not the beginning of a “happily ever after,” but the beginning of the next stage in life. See Michelinie’s, Millar’s, DeMatteis’, De Falco’s (2nd), Straczynski’s, etc. runs to quickly dismiss and disprove Slott’s agenda-laden comment.

    “Spider-Man has been around for 50 years and married for [21]. It’s an itch people want scratched.”

    I read a recent interview in which Slott defended the fantasy elements of Spider-Verse by saying that he grew up reading Marvel Team-Up, and Spider-Man went on all sorts of absurd adventures to all sorts of ridiculous places in that book, so those elements are, therefore, a part of his history and are permissible to be used in stories. But just because Spider-stories of yore have included certain elements, should they be brought back? It can be done. But not by Slott. He’s not Grant Morrison who is capable of referencing 50’s Batman ridiculousness and making them interesting plot points in his run. Anyways, the marriage is a much more frequent element of Spider-History than fantasy and is much more than an “itch,” it’s the effin elephant in the room. This comment is (unsurprisingly) disingenuous.

37. Remember, this story is with the approval of Tom Brevoort, who once said we’re all sick and so we needed the “medicine” of OMD, Axel Alonso, who flippantly during a con panel told a fan “You’re welcome” when the fan said he was still reading ASM after OMD, and Dan Slott, who right here says we’re all ignorant of what we really need in a Spider-Man story. And who bitterly complained against readers who didn’t like Carly Cooper, characterizing them as trapped in the past. Slott is going to make sure that horrible things happen to MJ and the child (like, Eddie Brock nearly eats the child, or cripples MJ, or something) because Slott concocting some propaganda under the guise of an event will “prove” to all of us how stupid and wrong we all are.

38. @4 – “I honestly think crap like this is why people look down their noses at comics as a storytelling medium. the characters never progress, nothing ever changes and if anything DOES change we just wave a magic wand and make it go away.”

    Actually, in the 1980s we had great character progression of Peter and MJ, and a lot of the supporting chast. Then someone at Marvel became obsessed with fixing something that wasn’t a problem.

39. @#39-Well the Lat Days series being about the Multiverse would include the 616 universe too though. Again I doubt all of the alternate worlds will forever disappear after Battleworld goes away.

    @#49-A counter argument would be literally every What If issue ever. Divergent universes have no bearing on canon and if they were it means Spider-Girl undermines RYV

    @#50-Which isn’t just illogical it is OFFENSIVE to real life police officers, soldiers, etc who have families

    @#53- I think you are giving Marvel too much credit. This is the same company who teased fans for a Spidey/Mj reunion in Superior only to turn it into a rapey story. As for the promo images it’s supposed to be set up for how nice it is at first (with a few cracks showing through) and it’s going to go to Hell eventually.

40. Exactly Hornacek. That’s what I said earlier. Charlie Brown has won many times and people were happy he did.

41. “‘In a good Peanuts story, you want Charlie Brown to kick that football. But if Charlie Brown kicks the football, it’s over!’ says Slott.”

    I remember people saying that same thing about Charlie Brown winning a baseball game, since he lost every game he ever played. But then Shultz wrote a strip where Charlie Brown did win a game. And it didn’t ruin the strip, it kept going for many more years, the characters kept going and they weren’t ruined.

42. calling it now Marvel will fully reboot Peter back to High School after secret wars. making this the Spider-Man equivalent of Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow? and the Reboot the Spider-Man equivalent of man of steel.

43. @#55- “Of course Marvel would want to do that. Absolutely they would. When OMD hit Axel Alonso even said they were counting on people being angry over it to boost sales going into BND. And now he’s the EIC. Pissing people off is in their wheelhouse. It’s their space.”

    Yes, and they would also say that to make it seem like pissing people off was part of their plan.

    I doubt they ACTUALLY want people to get as angry as they did, because that anger led to lower sales. They want INTEREST and PASSION, not the anger that they got.

    “1.) It’s a promo. They’ll say anything.
    2.) Much of the cynicism over this comes from how Slott has acted in the past. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that’s somehow magically changed.”

    Oh, I don’t think Slott has changed. Not at all. I don’t think for a second he’s become magically more compassionate and considerate towards those that has criticized him or the book for years.

    What I DO think has happened is that this is likely not a story or direction he wants to go in or tell, and it’s not being marketed to a group of people he particularly cares for. He’s not in a position where he can tell people to piss off if they don’t like what he’s doing. He’s in a position where this story is going to be MARKETED to the people he’s criticized for years, so he’s trying to save face. Not just with them, but also the fans that have “supported” him/ parroted his opinion for the past eight years, because it will likely go in a direction they DON’T want to go in.

    It’s not someone who’s finally learned to grow up. It’s someone who has to eat humble pie to a group he thought that would have gone away and shut up by now, but now has to market and sell the material to.

    “Nothing he has ever said or done has given me a ‘magnanimous’ vibe. Ever. He respects other people’s opinions? Please! Maybe for as long as it takes for him to hit the ‘Block’ button on Twitter when they dare level criticism at a story. This is a guy who pre-emptively banned thousands of Twitter accounts just because they might disagree with things he agreed with. There’s no respect for differing opinion there.”

    Which is all well and good when you think you are in the position where you can pick and choose who you listen to and who you are writing for.

    When your editor tells you that they are going in another direction with the series, and you can either write it or get out, that warrants a change in how you present things to the audience.

    One could read Slott’s statements about the importance of the marriage as trying to smooth things over with his most fervent supporters who he told for years that the marriage wasn’t important and the only people who liked it was a vocal minority, since now he’s basically telling a story that implies the exact opposite, while reinforcing the beliefs of those he’s criticized.

    “Yeah, I’m a “leopards don’t change their spots” kinda guy. Someone who *gets* the Scorpion & the Frog fable. His “what readers need” remark told me all I needed to know about where he was coming from.”

    Again, this isn’t a change in attitude from Slott. This is a change in merely how he approaches the customer base, since he’s no longer preaching to the choir.

    He’s not selling this to the people who supported him when he said that the marriage was a mistake and that MJ wasn’t that important of a character and that she caused problems. He’s marketing this to the people he CRITICIZED and COMPLAINED about for eight years. He’s not going to be a dick to them, regardless of how he really feels, because THOSE are the people who are MOST likely to pick up the story, whereas the people who supported are the ones most likely to not pick up the title.

    In the ends, it’s not “I’ve realized how wrong I’ve been.” It’s “I have to say this because it’s what my bosses are telling me to say.”

44. @55 I stand applaud your sir George thank you I couldn’t agree more.

45. If Slott does this in the tone of the old Spider-Man Human Torch mini…it will be a great piece. However…

    @#53 and the other optimists out there…all you have to read is this quote: ““All the best stories in serialized fiction–it’s always about teasing the greatest wishes and wants, but monkey-pawing it. Always giving you what you want, but not the way you want it.””

    Does not bode well for Spider-Man fans that prefer the marriage.

46. @#53 – “And if all Slott intended to do with this story is to shove it in people’s faces how marriage doesn’t suit Spider-Man, I doubt Marvel would let him get away with it. All that would do is open the wounds that OMD and OMIT created, and I doubt even they want to do that.”

    Of course Marvel would want to do that. Absolutely they would. When OMD hit Axel Alonso even said they were counting on people being angry over it to boost sales going into BND. And now he’s the EIC. Pissing people off is in their wheelhouse. It’s their space.

    “And, keep in mind, we’ve SEEN how Slott has slapped people in the face about how Peter isn’t “suited” for marriage in very blatant and insulting ways, I doubt that he’d be doing that here. Especially how he’s been talking about it in this promo.”

    1.) It’s a promo. They’ll say anything.
    2.) Much of the cynicism over this comes from how Slott has acted in the past. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that’s somehow magically changed.

    “Just look at what Slott is doing here- he’s not dismissing the marriage- he’s pointing out that it is important to a lot of people and to the series. If this was about pissing people off, believe it, Slott would LET US KNOW. He has NO problem telling people that the story he will tell will make them angry or piss them off, and gloating about it as much as he can. Just look at how he treated the situation with Otto and MJ. Or with May during Spider-Verse. Instead, we have Slott being very magnanimous, respecting people’s feelings and talking about how much people value the marriage and how it has had a major impact on the series.”

    Nothing he has ever said or done has given me a ‘magnanimous’ vibe. Ever. He respects other people’s opinions? Please! Maybe for as long as it takes for him to hit the ‘Block’ button on Twitter when they dare level criticism at a story. This is a guy who pre-emptively banned thousands of Twitter accounts just because they might disagree with things he agreed with. There’s no respect for differing opinion there.

    “This is a far cry from the “If you like the marriage, you want to destroy the franchise” Slott, or the “MJ caused a lot of tsuris amongst the creators” from a few years back. This is a Slott who seems to more willing to concede to other people’s feelings, with is a MASSIVE change of pace for him and his usual “If you criticize me you are just a crazy internet troll” stance.”

    Yeah, I’m a “leopards don’t change their spots” kinda guy. Someone who *gets* the Scorpion & the Frog fable. His “what readers need” remark told me all I needed to know about where he was coming from.

47. Doesn’t come across as something I’d want to waste my money on.

48. @#49- You know, as hard as it may seem to believe, I actually don’t think that is the path they would take with the story.

    From the- albeit brief- images that we’ve seen, Peter and MJ’s situation doesn’t seem to be an unhappy one. Peter and MJ are arguing in one picture, true, but they seem to get over it by the end of the page, and are shown in a loving embrace.

    And if all Slott intended to do with this story is to shove it in people’s faces how marriage doesn’t suit Spider-Man, I doubt Marvel would let him get away with it. All that would do is open the wounds that OMD and OMIT created, and I doubt even they want to do that. And, keep in mind, we’ve SEEN how Slott has slapped people in the face about how Peter isn’t “suited” for marriage in very blatant and insulting ways, I doubt that he’d be doing that here. Especially how he’s been talking about it in this promo.

    Just look at what Slott is doing here- he’s not dismissing the marriage- he’s pointing out that it is important to a lot of people and to the series. If this was about pissing people off, believe it, Slott would LET US KNOW. He has NO problem telling people that the story he will tell will make them angry or piss them off, and gloating about it as much as he can. Just look at how he treated the situation with Otto and MJ. Or with May during Spider-Verse. Instead, we have Slott being very magnanimous, respecting people’s feelings and talking about how much people value the marriage and how it has had a major impact on the series. This is a far cry from the “If you like the marriage, you want to destroy the franchise” Slott, or the “MJ caused a lot of tsuris amongst the creators” from a few years back. This is a Slott who seems to more willing to concede to other people’s feelings, with is a MASSIVE change of pace for him and his usual “If you criticize me you are just a crazy internet troll” stance.

    I think the safer bet is this will be more of a “This could be your life” sort of situation. Peter sees the life he COULD have had with MJ, and it causes him to reevaluate things with her (i.e. Realize something that he’s known for over 25 years in real time) once the Secret Wars is over. We’ll then get about six or seven months of hand-wringing and stalling while Peter “tries” to resolve things with her while she stays with Pedro who will be presented as the perfect man (In other words, Spider-Man 2 all over again). Then Otto will return, and Norman will attack, and MJ will be put in danger and Peter will try to rescue her and then they’ll “realize” they love each other and the last story Slott writes will be about them deciding to give it “One more chance.”

49. Same here #51

    I just hate to say it but I’ve turn from optimistic to cynical like George now but if I have to be like George now. I greatly welcome it.

50. Im trying my hardest not to get too excited