“A difference… between what your readers want and what your readers need.”
Entertainment Weekly has remarks from Dan Slott about the upcoming Renew Your Vows storyline, as well as preview art from Adam Kubert.
Some highlights: (Emphasis mine)
EW has the first details about the Secret Wars tie-in that will bring back Peter Parker’s marriage and child for what’s being billed as “The Last Spider-Man Story.”
…
“There are legions of Spider-Man fans that are passionate about changes that have happened to Spider-Man continuity,” says Renew Your Vows writer (and current Spidey scribe) Dan Slott. “They are upset that the baby went missing, that the marriage went away. Spider-Man has been around for fifty years, and the marriage was around for twenty-five. So now we’re seven or eight years into a world without a married Spider-Man. It’s a big itch that people want scratched.”
…
In fact, one of the most popular Spider-Man spinoffs, Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz’s Spider-Girl, was set in a world where that baby definitively survived and grew up to replace her father. In Renew Your Vows, Slott is particularly interested in really diving into how the role of husband and father would affect Peter’s heroic mission.
“Spider-Man, when you get down to it, is a character about responsibility. And the second he’s a father and a husband—he has a responsibility to share his powers with the world, but suddenly he has two people that are his whole world. That changes everything, the complete dynamic of what it means to have great power and great responsibility,” says Slott. “You need to be there for your daughter, you need there for your wife—in a way that he hasn’t had to be there for anyone else. And that drastically changes what it means to be Spider-Man.”
So yes, Baby Parker is a pretty big deal to both fans and the general goings-on behind Renew Your Vows. But, as Slott notes, there’s a purpose to it all, and it’s probably not what you think it is.
That’s something I’ve been warning people about recently on our message boards. Don’t expect any of this to last. Expect it to stick around long enough for Marvel to pour salt in the wound, piss you off again and then switch to something else.
More: (Emphasis mine)
“With any story where you give people what they want—there’s a difference, as a storyteller, between what your readers want and what your readers need. In a good Peanuts story, you want Charlie Brown to kick that football. But if Charlie Brown kicks the football, it’s over!” says Slott. “All the best stories in serialized fiction–it’s always about teasing the greatest wishes and wants, but monkey-pawing it. Always giving you what you want, but not the way you want it.”
…
“You haven’t seen Spider-Man’s classic villains the way you know and love—I wouldn’t be surprised to see Eddie Brock as Venom in this story,” teases Slott. “Or Sergei Kravinoff as Kraven the Hunter in this story. There’s going to be a lot of bullets in the gun for things you wanted to see in a Spider-Man story that you haven’t seen in a while. This is the ultimate classic feel. This is the last Eddie Brock story. The stakes have never been higher for Peter Parker because he’s never had so much to lose. So he has never been this close to the edge. And these are the Last Days.”
You can read more at EW’s site, which also has more preview art.
–George Berryman!
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@#49 George Berryman — At the very least, I imagine the story will argue that Peter Parker being Spider-Man while being a husband and father is irresponsible and therefore shouldn’t be Spider-Man. Because if anything should happen to him, who would take care of his family? Let’s not forget, this was also the implied argument Marvel used during the Clone Saga back when Mary Jane was pregnant.
Oh I have little doubt that Slott’s depiction of the Spider-Marriage will be a forced, nonsensical narrative meant to try to prove a point. And yeah there’s definitely going to be a “See how bad it could be?” angle shoved down our collective throats. Hard.
And they know by doing it some will actually take it. They will accept the story without rejecting the laughable premise. This is why I roll my eyes anytime I read “Well if they had to break Peter & MJ up then *insert different idea here* is how it should’ve happened.” There was no “had to” about it; it was done to cater to the EIC’s ego.
So yeah, when this is over there will be some poor souls who will point to this as gospel and say “Well we saw what happened if they’d have stuck together, so…”
Without recognizing that it was a story meant to sell you on a fail.
… it’s Slott. Who in their right mind is looking forward to this? They’re still telling you to your face that YOU demanded Silk.
@#46 ryan3178 —
And just to confirm what Ryan said, Dan Slott did say on his Twitter feed that Renew Your Vows will be taking the place of Amazing Spider-Man all during Secret Wars.
https://twitter.com/DanSlott/status/577592118052581377
So, we have the Peter Parker of a universe where OMD and OMITT never happen taking over the main book until Secret Wars is over. Basically I see it at this: “See, this is what would happen and its worse than keeping him single.” “Now get over it and get ready for the All-New Amazing Spider-Man in September. If I can take anything, I rather this be the end of Slott’s run on Spider-Man.
Whatever. I can’t get worked up over comics anymore. If they want to piss on our faces and tell us it’s raining we can just not buy the books.
I’m just happy to see Spider-Man married again with a child and with Eddie Brock as Venom. Just wish it was more than three issues and it was written by DeFalco, Michelinie or JMS but I’ll take it. Once they reboot it I’ll
l drop the book and just stick to 2099.
@#33-The solicits for the previews say it is about a Spider-Man froma world where One More Day never happened so I dunno if it’s properly the Last Days thing or not.
@#37-His sales!…And because he’s one of those who toes the company line…And was involved in making OMD which the higher ups obviously like.
@37 trust me I’m just as baffled and confused why someone who spits in the fans faces as much as this man does gets to handle a story he openly despises. And I can assure you it’s not cause he’s special cause I know he’s not. I can see this ending somehow where slott will make everyone even angrier and kill off both MJ and mayday if that is her name by venom or kraven. And when the new marvel universe starts well have a newly widowed and looking for new love spider-man!!! How exciting. That way they will guarantee there’s no way those two get back or stay together.
What an arrogant, snotty, ignorant thing to say: As if Dan Slott knows what we “need” better than we do. Stick it in your ear.
I really can’t get hyped about this at all, I don’t even think I’m going to buy it. I’ve got no time for Slott’s Peter Parker. Here’s hoping for new writer once Secret Wars is over.
@35 – Miles being mentored by Peter would kill some of the appeal of the character, for me at least. A big part of Miles character arc at the beginning of his series was that he had no guidance on how to be an effective Spider-Man and he had to figure it out on his own. I’d be alright with it if they make the mentor-mentee relationship unique.
@#33- Stillanerd- I don’t think that Marvel is going to “retire” Peter Parker as Spider-Man. They JUST got the rights back to him as a movie property, and have made it very clear that they do not intend for Miles Morales to be on the big screen. And Marvel is VERY insistent on keeping some cross brand recognition. So I don’t think Peter is going anywhere.
I also believe that the “Last Days” refers to the last days of the multiverse as a whole, not just the Marvel Universe before the Secret Wars. As for the timeline, I doubt it’s going to be a direct “This is what could have happened” story and it will be more along the lines of what the other tie ins are like, none of which are an alternate “What could have happened” story from a direct source. This is more likely just going to be about Peter who was married to MJ and had a kid, but will avoid any direct reference to any one story. Thinking about it now, I doubt that anything regarding OMD or Mephisto would even pop up in the story, as it would just be about Peter being in a world where he is married with a family, and after the story he’d retain some of those memories, which would cause him to “reevaluate” his feelings for MJ.
@#37- Adam S.- Unfortunately, I think it’s just the timing of the situation. ASM had an extended release date the past eight years, and Marvel has been fairly relaunch crazy the past few years.
It’s less about him being special and him being more in the right place at the right time.
@33 – Mr. Negative would not shock me, considering Slott created him.
@35 – Idiotic as it may be, but with Marvel as it currently is I wouldn’t be shocked if that were the case. But yeah, the idea of Peter being an older Spider-Man while still mentoring Miles is definitely something I can live with, rather than just having Pete retire for Miles. The latter idea would just make me really angry.
I just don’t get why Slott gets to do all this stuff. He gets #600, he gets #700, he gets Vol. 3 #1, he gets the “last” Spider-Man story. What makes him so special?
Dan Slott is writing this? Well, we know it will be not be what fans want…
‘Nuff Said!
@33 – That’s a possibility I suppose, but something about it would just irritate the hell out of me if they actually did it. Like it’s some sort of punishment for those of us who wanted a married Spider-Man or that the price we have to pay is he can’t be Spider-Man. Which is of course idiotic and I’d like to think that someone at Marvel understands that it’s idiotic.
That said, Peter in a mentor role to Miles could be interesting if done well. I wonder if Bendis will continue to write Miles after Secret Wars or not.
There are plenty of examples during the marriage where the wedding rigs aren’t drawn in. During the final season of the Sailor Moon anime the protagonist was engaged but you rarely saw the ring.
Also I would argue that we do NEED the marriage back and for him to have a kid. Because in looking at those images it’s something I have truly never seen in Spider-Man and it is truly creatively fertile. Whereas everything since OMD has almost entirely been creatively baron
Last Spider-Man story, huh? Or to be more precise, the last story with Peter Parker as Spider-Man? Given Slott’s “Monkey’s Paw” comment and how Peter being a husband and father means he has greater responsibilities and thus more to lose, I’m thinking it’s the latter, and that he’ll ultimately give up being Spider-Man to be a husband and father. And if “elements from this story will go on into the next incarnation,” then don’t be surprised if this is paving the way for Peter to pass on the mantle to Miles Morales, making him the “All-New, All-Different Amazing Spider-Man” post-Secret Wars.
Also, since “Last Days” is capitalized, this means that Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows falls under the Secret Wars: Last Days banner, which are supposed to be stories taking place prior to the Marvel Universe being destroyed and becoming Battleworld. In this case, it appears this will chronicle several years of an alternate timeline where Peter and MJ were still married and had a daughter prior to their world being part of an Incursion. Why several years? Because if you remember the original teaser for this, it showed Peter and MJ slightly older with a daughter who looked like she was eight years old (which, interestingly enough, it will have been eight years since One More Day), while the preview images for this are showing Peter and MJ still looking as if though they’re still in their late twenties and their daughter is an infant.
As for who the possible Regent is…my guess is if it’s not Kingpin, then it’s either Mister Negative or The Hood.
@#31- Probably an oversight since there are pictures of their wedding day as well.
Actually, looking at the one spread of them in the apartment, I can’t see either of them wearing a wedding ring in any shot where you can see the left hand clearly. Granted, it could just be due to these not being the final pieces, but it’s something odd.
Oh God that preview art…I want to get excited by this so, so much. But then I realize who’s writing this, and what the current direction of Marvel likely is, and I realize how it would likely just set me up for a big disappointment. I mean, if you’re going to do a story that celebrates the marriage or touches on it, why put someone who’s been vocal about their dislike of it and the PeterxMJ relationship? Unless it was to just gauge back the fans who loved with the marriage and then take it away again, then try to justify again why it’s not necessary? Slott’s lines about giving the readers what they need, not what they want, reeks the same as Brevoort’s comment and doesn’t instill much hope.
And Kraven’s not even dead! You just never use him anymore since he came back to life!
I just thought of how full if shit Dan Slott is. He’ll go on record one minute to tell us he wants to write the stories we NEED, not the ones we want. Then he’ll say that most of the stuff we have now like Silk is because WE DEMANDED IT.
You can’t have the stories you want. But you all wanted Silk and Carlie Cooper so…
@#26-This might be them getting remarried with a different dress
I am looking forward to seeing how an Eddie Brock Venom could become even more threatening with a married with a child Spider-Man…. but my optimism for ASM has been depleted so much that I’m having a hard time deciding how I exactly feel about this announcement.
Dammit they didn’t even get MJ’s wedding dress right! ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS GLANCE AT THE COVER OF THE WEDDING ISSUE, and they didn’t even do that. Ugh.
There is so much shit in this article I can’t adequately address it all. Slott simultaneously chats BS about serial storytelling which is objectively wrong (and echoes Quesada circa OMD) but also gives one of the best explanations about WHY Spider-Man as a married parent is such a GOOD idea.
Also Dick Tracy has been going on for even LONGER than Spider-Man OR Peanuts. He’s a goddam grandfather now
(Spam filter must be acting up again…OK, let’s try this again! As I was saying back in #19:)
However, what this “monkey’s paw” method of storytelling Slott refers to means is constantly teasing the reader, then pulling a bait-and switch. This is NOT good story-telling. While it may initially peak readers’ interest, eventually the constant disappointment leaves those readers feeling aggravated, fed up, and eventually disgusted…which judging by reviews, is how most Spider-Man fans feel today.
If this is what is considered good story-telling today…then kudos on the excellent work, Mr Slott!
Also, Charlie Brown has kicked the football before but Licy has stated it doesn’t count when he has. That’s what this feels like. The times Peter has kicked the ball and accepted the responsibility. It gets turn to: “That didn’t count because we say so.” I hate back handed comments saying we need this because we don’t understand what we want. Bull!
@18 – that’s a good point. All I’ve been reading is how a single Peter offers more freedom to tell better stories. Unfortunately most of us have already read those stories. What we haven’t read yet is Peter the father and what it takes to balance family life, a career, and being Spider-Man.
Poor poor Peter Parker I feel sorry for this guy, for all the times this guy gets crapped on because he’s Spider-Man in his own universe, all the beatings he takes, all the times he’s been framed, being cloned on multiple times, been killed off and just being mishandled by so many writers at least he had M.J. and now with this secret wars it’s going to be violently taken away from him and his child that he should have had ages ago, why can’t this character just get a break seriously? Why does he keep on being regressed or in other words leave in a fucking young people’s world? How does this sell comics? Shouldn’t comic companies try to unite fans together, why do they feel the need to piss the fans off all the time? I swear to God if Peter after this reboot sets his ass in High School again then I quite reading Spider-Man for the love of GOD MARVEL STOP MAKING PETER A FUCKING TEENAGER AGAIN IN EVERYTHING!!!!
This young thing has gotten out of control so many fans are now getting sick of a young Peter Parker and Marvel are still not listening??? Maybe it’s just best to quit Spider-Man and just read the older issues……rant over, Spider-Man is forever ruined and he’s never going to be fixed again, how sad.
@14- Not to mention- Peter kicked the damn ball twenty five @#$ing years ago, and the world didn’t end. The notion that Slott sticks to that he HAS to remain the way HE prefers or else everything will be ruined in the long run is nonsense.
There’s just as much evidence that shows a married Spider-Man can be just as successful and popular as a single one. Slott acting like the marriage is only something that can be done on special occasions but they can’t ever do anything like that on a long term basis ignores the very history he cites in this very article.
“There’s a difference, as a storyteller, between what your readers want and what your readers need…All the best stories in serialized fiction–it’s always about teasing the greatest wishes and wants, but monkey-pawing it. Always giving you what you want, but not the way you want it.”
See, this thinking is exactly the problem with today’s comics industry in general, and Slott’s ASM run in particular.
I will agree with one thing, however: There IS a difference in good story-telling between doing what a reader expects, and keeping fans guessing, and looking forward to the next issue…let me explain what I mean.
Occasionally pulling a plot twist, so that fans don’t know where the story is going, IS good story-telling, and keeps things from getting too predictable. Examples are the death of Gwen Stacy (ASM (vol 1) #121-122), the Sin-Eater story (back in PPTSSM #107 – #110), or when Tyler Stone was revealed to be Miguel’s father (in Peter David’s RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME Spider-Man 2099 (Vol1) #25).
@14 – Yeah the Charlie Brown comparison was a real hard stretch for Slott. Peanuts (while delightful!) is a static setting and backdrop for humorous scenes, some of them even anecdotal for Schulz. Spider-Man is serialized fiction mixing drama with occasional humor in which characters are changed by events.
They’re killing him off again?….”Last Spider-Man story” …
Last Spider-Man story?……they’re killing him again,aren’t they….and after SW Miles takes over……goddamit.
Also the Charlie Brown comparison is stupid. You as the reader want him to kick the damn ball, we need him to kick the ball. What happens if he kicks the ball, Charlie Brown gets that brief shred of success that we know will be taken away the next time.
Spider-man at this point is more of a Looney Tune. Same story every time
@#1- It feels to me like Slott may not be all that invested in writing this story or that it will resolve itself in a way that he is satisfied with, but is obligated to do so by other aspects at Marvel.
Given how magnanimous Slott is here, this feels more like he’s trying to ease things for his fans who have supported him for his anti-MJ/ anti-marriage tangents rather than telling people that this isn’t going to stay going forward.
That said, I can definitely see the element of this going forward that Slott teased mainly just being Peter’s knowledge of the other world he and MJ lived in where they were married and with a kid.
“Spider-Man, when you get down to it, is a character about responsibility. And the second he’s a father and a husband—he has a responsibility to share his powers with the world, but suddenly he has two people that are his whole world. That changes everything, the complete dynamic of what it means to have great power and great responsibility,”
So I guess I must be imagining the Fantastic 4?
“So now we’re seven or eight years into a world without a married Spider-Man. It’s a big itch that people want scratched.”
Yes, but not by Dan Slott. As a consumer I will continue to buy stories I want to read, and the stories by writers who think they know what readers need will go back on the shelf after reading them for free.
What We Want: Married Spider-man
What We Need: Married Spider-man (cause you still haven’t proved why he needs to be single)
Trying to think positive about this. But Slott’s comments just kind of sound like “well, these are the Spider-man comics we could’ve been giving you, but we have to cram it all in to a 3-part story before the universe reboot”.
Also, why would this need to be “The Last Story”? Where is this idiotic notion that a superhero having a wife and a kid somehow has to mean the end for him coming from? A competent writer could do a lot with such a thing especially since it’s not something that’s ever been explored with Spider-Man except in Spider-Girl in a sense.
Why did they have to have Slott write this? Couldn’t they have given it to someone else?
@#5 — You’re right, Sean. I bet this will end up being a not-so-subtle message those fans that says, “See? This is why we have a single, unmarried Spider-man with no logic who behaves like a child!” Besides, his whole argument that there is a difference between what readers want and what they needs flies in the face of the other rationale that’s used to publish certain stories: “Because YOU demanded it!”
@#1 I agree, George. I read that exactly the same way. It feels like a power trip. I do not believe that he is in any position to say which stories we, as fans, want or need. He has no authority on Spider-man fandom, no matter what he may think. I’m just grateful that I’m not the only one who feels this way.
You know, I look at these images and have the same feeling that this is the Spider-Man I would rather be reading about then the one we’ve gotten. Then all I feel is dread given who’s writing it and the current status of Marvel.
Those comments really do just ooze condescension and I’m so tired of that from Marvel. Hell, that monkey paw comment seems to outright confirm that this will be some way of making them together with a kid a bad thing or something like that.
I’m just so tired of this.
And is this going to be a Venom story then?
@2 – It’s the last Spider-Man story in the current universe. Marvel are trying to say it’s basically the Spider-Man equivalent of Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow?
after Spiderverse and having Silk forced down our throats I am pretty much done with the comics at this point. the permanent return of married Spidey is one of the few things that could probably convince me to stay around but as Berryman pointed out the chances of that is slim.
I honestly think crap like this is why people look down their noses at comics as a storytelling medium. the characters never progress, nothing ever changes and if anything DOES change we just wave a magic wand and make it go away.
Elements of this storyline will carry on the future. I bet it’ll be something stupid like bringing Eddie Brock or Sergei Kravinoff back to life.
Or… MJ and Peter remain unmarried, but now they’re single parents.
And what am I supposed to take from “The Last Spider-Man Story?” Will Spider-Man as we know him not exist after Secret Wars? I would not support a new title without Peter Parker as Spider-Man.
Dan you, Slott. Peter and MJ married, with a baby, a tease of Kraven, AND…AAAND Eddie AS VENOM? Just for none if it all to matter?! ARRGH!!
“there’s a difference, as a storyteller, between what your readers want and what your readers need.”
From Slott, this came across as condescension and reminded me of Brevoort’s recent comments about OMD, saying basically that even if the medicine doesn’t taste good, we still need to take it.