Editorial: Enough with the Spider-Racism Crap

113 Comments

1. #48 well said

2. Being Latino myself, part of the thrill of having Peter Parker with Iron Man and so on is the experience being as much like the comics I grew up reading. So I’d rather he’d be white myself. Now if they want to do Miles Morales later that’s fine, but it’s too soon.

3. I have no idea what is going on with Twitter, so I don’t know if Dan Slott is encouraging this sort of nonsense or dismissing it.

   So I’ll just say- get the best actor for the job. If it is a black guy, it’s a black guy. If it’s an asian guy, it’s an asian guy. Best actor for the role.

   For me, Micheal Clarke Duncan was the ideal Kingpin. And Sam Jackson owns the role of Nick Fury. And for me, Will Smith could have done a hell of a job as Superman. And I’m sure he’ll do an awesome job as Deadshot. And I think Idris Elba could be an awesome James Bond, although he is a bit old for the role now.

   Marvel will probably cast a white actor for the role, but they are not wrong for doing it as it has been how the character has been portrayed for decades. And just casting a minority actor in the role is not going to “fix” the problems with the franchise, as I’ve seen others argue. Get the best actor for the part, whatever race they may be. Spider-Man doesn’t HAVE to be a certain race, but that also means that he doesn’t have to be black or asian or hispanic or indian as much as he doesn’t have to be white.

4. #46 my point exactly.

5. Whoops, meant #43, Irishfan.

6. @42 The words speak for themselves.

7. @41 – I don’t think anyone is under the impression that Slott is going to have creative control over MCU Spider-Man. Though I agree that he’s basically tricked a load of people into arguing about a non-issue, as Peter Parker will most likely never be a black man in comics or movies.

8. #42 nah they are people who believe its a waste of talent for society and a nonsense in general to place any importances on the colour of someones skin. Not inclined to go in for that superior lark. no need to be putting words in peoples mouths.

9. Eh. Proponents of it’s time for Peter Parker to not be white are the same ones who steadfastly insist Luke Cage must be black, like a white person has never been wrongly imprisoned before. Or a Chinese man, etc, etc. These are people with agendas who think they’re morally superior to you.

   Peter could very well be a woman and Black Panther could be South American using Irishfan’s logic in #12.

   People can have different opinions and not be racist or evil. Unfortunately, those that disagree with that sentiment aren’t going to change. It’s happens on this website every time we have this editorial, even from long standing members.

   Whatever, for what it’s worth, I agree with you George.

   I personally prefer my characters to match the source material, with some exceptions.

10. Looks to me like Slott played everyone for a bunch of fools. Does anyone really think the studio bosses would let Slott within a billion miles of a billion dollar movie franchise?

11. The way I read Slott’s twitter spat was saying that Peter Parker Spidey could be non-white. This is a very different proposition to a different character having Spider powers and being a Spider-man. It should hopefully be obvious to all that race is not integral to being a compelling Spider-man character as evidenced by Miles. Changing Peter to be anything other than he is changes his continuity. If ultimate line peter Parker had been introduced as black, in the same way ultimate nick fury was, I’d have absolutely no problem with that. I do have problems when existing characters are retconned artificially. If the new Marvel emerging from Secret Wars features a black peter Parker then fine, just don’t tell me it’s the same peter Parker we’ve been reading about for 50 years.

12. @36 I think you’re missing the point of 25. I read it as he’s saying someone who thinks Spidey must be white may be racist, but aren’t necessarily so by virtue of their opinion on Spider-man alone.

13. Look I think people want source material to stay close to the source. The black actors doing white roles has been done and not done well i.e. the Honeymooners…Annie and Death at a funeral to name a few. If they make it Miles by all means get a black actor…although I guess he could be a white actor if Peter can be a black actor. The change for sake of change or trying to make people happy seems short sighted and a disservice to the fans.

14. “You’re a racist!” is el-stupido-mode of communication. It’s a form of bullying. It means you know you can’t take the accuser seriously.

    Not to mention it promotes /real/ racism! Throwing the racist card around recklessly like this teaches people to numb themselves to it.

15. @25 – “I only have one dissagreement with the original post: People who want Spider-Man to be played by a white guy may as well be racists or not…”

    They’re not.

    “… racism is a serious topic that has nothing to do spider-man.”

    When the topic deals with Peter Parker or Spider-Man it is very, very much on topic here, matthewaos. Including the reaction from the insane You’re racist!!” crowd, which is what we’re addressing here.

16. I want to leave a reply but not sure how to phrase my words. I guess it all depends on why they want to change the Spiderman character. If it’s because the best person for the job is of a different race than what is traditional, then fine. Write a good story to support the character. But if it’s so they can be “politically correct” or to “shake things up”, then they are doing it for all the wrong reasons.
    I personally want a traditional Spiderman. I like my comic book characters the way I grew up with them. But in saying that, I love the way Samuel Jackson is doing Nick Fury. He was the perfect choice for the job and can’t see anyone else doing it.
    I guess it is going to boil down to the story. If the movie has good writing, and good acting, I am relatively sure we will accept whoever they get to play Peter Parker/Spidey.

17. Unless I’m wrong, didn’t Marvel Studios explicitly say they were going to tell new stories of *Peter Parker*? So why in the world is there even an argument going on about this at all? I mean, if Kevin Feige’s statement is anything to go by, Marvel is going with Peter Parker, end of story. Besides, being Hispanic myself, I do not care for Miles Morales one bit, and it’s not because I’m “racist”, it’s just that the character’s not my cup of tea.* Peter Parker *is*.

    *Guess that makes Axel Alonso’s comment about “adding diversity” kind of moot, huh?

18. Well said George. I completely agree, its how people will get up in arms over something like this when as its put: “I want Peter Parker to be white because that’s how he is in comics and how he’s been for over 50 years.” Not racist at all. I think a lot of people are channeling what is happening with the upcoming FF movie where Johnny was changed for the sake diversity and the characters are 60% going against how they came to be, especially Dr. Doom. People said: “It’s is not the FF because you are not going with anything with who they have been for over 50 years.” Then people come out going: “What a character can’t be black, chinese or blue?” It gets out of control and then people thing others are being racist. I knew people who said Andrew Garfield couldn’t be Spider-Man because he was british. Yet, did you hear one iota of his accent? Exactly. I have no problem with who ever plays Peter Parker or if Miles Morales is introduced in the MCU. As long as Peter Parker and Miles are who they are with the characters I have grown up with or loved to read about. I’m all good. If they are going to just go with the sake to make something diverse? All I can say is: “Good luck and let’s see what happens.”

19. @#23-I completely disagree that changing Spider-Man’s race would be a decision made that must impact artistically upon the story. You could take the Master Planner Trilogy and film that shot for shot with Peter coincidentally being black and beyond that cosmetic difference it would be the same thing. Making Spider-Man a different race could be viewed as a political statement, in so far as it claims him being white is irrelevant and that anyone could be Spider-Man. But Casting someone who isn’t white doesn’t need to be justified on the grounds that it must therefore deviate from the source material and take into account the fact that he is now not a white person. It should be the same beyond the superficial. To introduce new elements that are only there because he is now no longer white would be to tell a story other than Spider-Man’s.

20. So I just looked up all this and seems like nothing more than Slott trying to generate more followers for his twitter. I think that Peter should be kept white, mainly because we already have mixed race (Miles) and hispanic (Miguel) Spider-Men in current comics. Not to mention Spider-Man India, Supaidaman. Though I must admit that I think a good performance should negate a race issue.

    Interestingly I’ve noticed that nationality never comes up in these 100% accuracy arguments, even though technically it should. No one has made a big deal about Black Widow being played by an American actress (who speaks english in an American accent 90% of the time), Garfield playing Spider-Man, or that a large part of the main cast of the Chris Nolan Batman movies were British. I’m not saying they should either because all of the above performances were very good, and the movies they were in could have potentially suffered without those actors.

21. @#11-But if someone is trying to argue that factually it is illogical for Spider-Man to not be white, then surely by its nature that is not merely a preferential argument. “I would rather Spider-Man not be on the Avengers” is a preferential argument “Spider-Man being an Avenger makes no sense” is at the very least an argument intended to be factual, whether or not the person saying it agrees with it (thus also making it their preference) or not. There is no factual basis for Spider-Man needing to be white beyond merchandise/synergy concerns. Therefore the original statement is at least dubious and misinformed if nothing else.

    @#11-I disagree with the Luke Cage argument because Luke Cage’s character DOES depend upon him being black since he was created out of the blacksploitation craze of the 1970s. He was designed with the fact that he was black in mind, the same thing as Black Panther. Or the same way Red Skull needs to be white since he is a white supremacist. In Luke Cage’s specific case he isn’t this person with this personality which is applicable regardless of race. In Spider-Man’s specific case, his personality is. Furthermore someone citing that they want Luke Cage to be white because it’d be funny is at best rather insensitive is it not? There are very few super heroes who are not white in the first place, it would be bad to replace the few who are with even more white characters, and even worse to do it for reasons which (from your example) would amount to trolling people. So yes the fact that those two different statements would garner two very different reactions is very justified.

22. Thank you,George.

23. And I do wonder why slott would open this kind of discussion if not to rile up fans. And for someone who says that he knows Peter Parker and what makes Peter Parker special and unique he sure hasn’t shown that in the last oh 2-3 years in his writing.

24. Ok not to sound like a old dullard but I prefer my characters I grew up with to be portrayed in the same light and that goes for all races. When I heard they cast Scarlett Johannsen in ghost in the shell all I could do is shake my head. I just read they’re making a new shaft movie and if they got let’s say brad Pitt to play him I would be beyond disappointed. I just like the movie or show or even game to be true to the source. I just wouldn’t be as invested in a character if he or she in nothing like I grew to love when they change them.

25. Can someone explain what’s been happening on twitter, and what Slott has been doing?

26. I only have one dissagreement with the original post: People who want Spider-Man to be played by a white guy may as well be racists or not, racism is a serious topic that has nothing to do spider-man.

27. @20 While I do agree that the world hardly hinges on whether our Spider-Man is or isn’t white, I think there’s one crucial difference between the sources you’ve mentioned and a Marvel Studios movie. It comes down to intended audience, and frankly, the latter is created with the intention of reaching a far wider market than any of the sources you’ve mentioned. Marvel Comics, as in the comic books themselves, simply don’t have an extensive reach beyond the Anglosphere, and even then, it’s almost certainly intended for American audiences. With characters like Spider-Ham and Spider-Monkey who don’t even have their ongoings, it’s very unlikely they would even be heard of outside the United States.

    Meanwhile, Supaida-Man was created purely for a Japanese audience and I sincerely doubt that it ever occurred to Toei to appeal to the tastes of a non-Japanese audience. That’s not saying that individuals outside the primary demographic can’t be exposed to and enjoy these products. I myself am neither American nor Japanese, and I’m fully capable of enjoying works from either nation. However, I also realise I’m not the intended audience and that my enjoyment of them was by no means planned by the works’ creators. My enjoyment, and in turn enjoyment originating from individuals not of the primary demographic, is merely a happy accident that evidently does little to influence the creators’ practices.

    On the other hand, superhero blockbusters like Spider-Man ARE intended for an international audience so I think its a little unfair to compare the fairly muted reactions to events that have happened in works with a limited scope to the potentially larger audience of a Marvel Studios Spider-Man production.

28. Really, I think this conflict had already started from the first DAY that it was announced Spider-Man would be returning to the MCU. For that matter, I’ve heard this argument from as far back as the e-mail leaks, and while I might be misremembering, I’m pretty sure there was debate on the issue even before then.

    Personally, the question of whether Peter should or shouldn’t be black (or really, if Spider-Man should be Peter or Miles) is really a question of cross-medium adaptations. My stance is that while I like the adaptation to deviate enough from the source material that I feel like I’m looking at something new, I do think that enough of the original source needs to be present to make it recognisable as an adaptation. For better or worse, physicality IS something that falls under the jurisdiction of the latter. Certainly, there’s room for change where it’s pragmatic, particularly in the case of comic-book adaptations where two-dimensional images don’t translate too smoothly into real life. That said, where the physicality of the original source can be translated into live-action, it should absolutely be retained, particularly for so high-profile a character as Spider-Man.

    Everybody on the planet familiar with the character knows Spider-Man in Peter Parker. Everyone on the planet familiar with Peter Parker knows he’s white. They wouldn’t expect any differently. Now, realistically speaking, I doubt international audience members are going to throw a hissy fit if Marvel did cast a non-white actor as Peter Parker, and really, only the pettiest individuals would boycott the film on the basis of Peter being portrayed as non-white. Therefore, from a business perspective, I don’t think Marvel will suffer either way.

    So really, this comes down to a discussion of art versus politics. And for me, the artistry of a story absolutely takes precedence over the politics. Now a story of Peter Parker as non-white could be art insofar as the change is justified by its having a profound effect on the story. However, personally speaking, I do not believe that a story of race makes a Spider-man story, so a change of racial makeup has little benefit to the story, although I suppose some may argue otherwise. The change certainly cannot be claimed to have been made on pragmatic grounds if one were inclined to use that argument since enough of Peter’s qualities are ubiquitous enough that a change of race is by nature intended either to tell a certain type of story, cosmetic reasons or due to political motivations.

    All said and done though, I question the wisdom of posting up this editorial, particularly given the strong judgement it makes. While I agree with the judgement, I’m quite sure a comment on this issue could have been made without implying support for one position or the other. I can see this only succeeding in fanning the flames of this argument, and I think most would really prefer not for this to escalate.

29. @18, I agree Brad. I like to have the characters in movies and comics to be as accurate as possible to the source material.

30. I agree with you George. People should just calm down and not go to extremes because others prefer something different then they would. After all we are all united on Spidey fandom.

31. We live in a day and age where “Spider-Man” IS NOT just a white male anymore. I mean, we got a store where he’s been a pig and a monkey. I think the correct way of saying this is PETER PARKER- Must be a white male. Spider-Man as we’ve just been shown by Slott is literally a title, a mantel, a code name. Anybody can be under the mask of “Spider-Man” but there is only 1 (Well, one archetype) for Peter Parker. So Spider-Man can be white, black, or Asian, but if he’s white, he’s Peter Parker, if he’s Black/Latino he’s Miles Morales, and if he’s Asian he’s Takuya Yamashiro.

    The ironic thing is, we’ve had a Japanese Spider-Man for about 36 years and nobody seemed to care. The minute a brown skinned character took on the mantel the internet initially lost it’s ever loving mind (and yeah, even some on the crawlspace weren’t all to crazy about it). But now, of all the Spider-Men we have, his story may be the best written one currently coming out. But the Japanese Spider-Man never invalidated Peter Parker and the actor that played Takuya never tarnished the name/brand of Spider-Man. So having a black actor as the focus of a new chapter of the Spider-man mythos isn’t going to cause the end of the world either.

    Now, if they were doing a Johnny Storm FF, THEN I can see some of the angst, because that frankly drives me crazy too (Though Sam Jackson killed it as Nick Fury, frankly Fury the character hasn’t been this interesting or used like he is now in years). But if they want to tell the Miles Morales the Ultimate Spider-Man story, then let’s see it. We’ve had literally 2 movie franchises of Peter and people complain to no end about ALL of them (and you know you do). So let’s see a new chapter with something different (rather than yet another Peter in high school story). Besides, if they did go with Miles, that still would mean Peter would be out there somewhere where later in the movie line they could bring him in and we could have another SPIDER-MEN team-up movie.

32. a rule designed to abolish the mistreatment of people based on difference? no i wouldn’t consider that racist either. bit late over here to be playing word games.

    I get the impression this is a bubble that needs bursting, if it doesn’t happen in the MCU it will some day.

33. I enjoy my comic movies when they stay close to the source material. Do I want Peter Parker to be a white kid? Yes I do. I’d also like him to have brown hair, be in his late teens or early 20’s. I don’t want a 60 year old actor, does that make me ageist? I don’t want him to be a woman. Does that make me sexist?
    Slott has said people who use the argument that “casting a white actor to be the Black Panther” isn’t the same argument. I however think its a valid argument . What the other side of the debate are wanting is equality. That is an equal comparison in my opinion. FYI I do want a black actor for the Black Panther.
    To get get to the heart of George’s editorial, I don’t think white people should feel shame for wanting to keep Spidey the race he’s always been. To shame them into some politically correct, white shame is just reverse racism.

34. @14 – The 15th Amendment is a ‘rule’ based on race. It’s not racist in the slightest. But you’re the only one I see calling Peter being white a “rule,” Irish.

    Either way, for someone to say they want Peter portrayed on screen as he is in the comics, i.e. a white guy, it’s not racist. Not one goddamn bit.

35. @14 if rules based on race are not racism then what are they then?

36. @14 Thank you!

37. @14 – “cast or draw a black man and a new tradition starts, world still spins, shows that colour is not important. Defend it to the hilt that he has to stay white because he was always white then colour is clearly important. May be well intentioned and a nod to tradition but rules based on race are racist.”

    It’s absolutely not. Except by people who for various different reasons need it to be to fit an agenda.

    @13 – Thanks Thomas! 😎

38. Right on Geroge, Thanks for saying what needs to be said! This is why I’ve been trying to get you on my comic book podcast for the longest time! Always a straight shooter!

39. cast or draw a black man and a new tradition starts, world still spins, shows that colour is not important. Defend it to the hilt that he has to stay white because he was always white then colour is clearly important. May be well intentioned and a nod to tradition but rules based on race are racist. Peter parker black teenager, his parents died, lived with his unlce and aunt, very clever, bit of a nerd, likes photography, gets bullied, bitten by a spider, gets powers, his unlce dies, feels guilty, fights crime. bit sad that his colour is a radical issue.

    The importance of spiderman is his character, he is working class with great attributes goes the extra mile for people around him would feel shame to spoil himself, its real, know loads of people like that. Rewrite him as a pampered rich kid who got great powers that would be an attack on the history and integrity of spiderman.

40. @9 I disagree. If someone says “Spider-Man MUST be white because it makes no sense for him to not be white because it’s integral to his character for him to be white” it isn’t racist. Its not an integral part of the character, but its based on personal preference. Beside, if someone was to say “I prefer Luke Cage to be white just because I think it would be funny, but I don’t think he HAS to be white”, you would have an angry army at your throat. Saying “Luke Cage MUST be Black because it makes no sense for him to not be Black because it’s integral to his character for him to be Black” is ok though. So why is it racist in one way, but ok in the other?

41. @9 – OR! People just stop yelling ‘racist!’ at one another every five minutes. I know, I know. But I can dream. 😉

42. @#5-I know, but the issue was strongly linked with the one at hand, so I threw my two cents in there. I think with things like this (and having experinced it myself because of tumblr SJWs) there can be an overreaction. It depends upon what individuals said and how they said it. Were someone to say “I prefer Spider-Man to be white just because I’ve grown up with the comics where he looks like that, but I don’t think he HAS to be white” then I personally feel that’s fair enough. That’s like saying you want the Goblin’s costume to look like it does in the comics. If you said “Spider-Man MUST be white because it makes no sense for him to not be white because it’s integral to his character for him to be white”, then that’d be different. Citing someone as racist in both instances would be potentially justified in the latter but not necesarilly so in the former.

43. I didnt know there was a Twitter war erupting over this, but on FB I pointed out that speculation about Miles being in the movie was unfounded since Marvel stated from day one they were using Peter Parker only to have posters call me racist, nazi and all that crap. and pretty much every geek site on the net is fueling the fire by claiming Marvel is deciding whether to use Parker or Miles despite the fact that they have already told us.
    honestly at this point I wish they would just drop the whole damn thing and bot use Spidey at all.

44. @6 – Thanks spideymaddox! I finally hit my ceiling for bullshit today. 😎

45. THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT!!!! BERRYMAN YOU DA MAN!!!

46. @3, @4 – This post though isn’t about whether or not Spidey or Peter Parker should be played by a white or black actor. It’s about the insane reaction to some of it.

47. If they cast a white guy, they call him Peter Parker. If they cast a black guy they call him Miles Morales. They are both rightful owner of the mantle. So what’s the problem?

    As my dad says, the problem nowadays is that if you are a white, straight Christian male nowadays, you are automatically racist/sexist/anti-gay. No matter what you say, people will ALWAYS interpret it in a way that will make you look like an horrible person. And it even truer on the net.

48. Spider-Man/Peter Parker should be played by whatever actor can best portray the character’s personality and physicality, regardless of their skin colour. So long as what they are saying and doing is true to the core spirit of the character then that’s fine. I don’t think Spider-Man NEEDS to be white but I don’t think he NEEDS to not be white either. I think he needs to be a guy who’s motivated to heroism by a sense of responsibility stemming from one major mistake he made.

    I doubt Marvel will cast someone who doesn’t resemble the comic character though if for no other reason than familiarity and merchandising considerations.

49. I don’t think the venom would be any different though. This is more a case of people just really wanting to shout ‘racism!!’ at anyone who dares to have a different opinion. It’s insane.

50. I frankly think people who are saying they are going to hire a black actor to play Spider-man are totally missing the point. They wouldn’t be casting a black man to be Peter Parker/Spider-Man, ,they’d be casting a black actor to play Miles Morales/Spider-Man.