The Marvel Universe is ending.

87 Comments

1. @#45-But the constant re-numberings are frankly more evidence that it’s nothing more than a short term gimmick. It isn’t truly encouraging to new readers. It’s not like they are constantly gaining readers each time they do it, they do it because they’re numbers drop off after issue #1. And then they’re just left with the more committed fans who were mostly there to begin with, except now they’re more fed up with them.

   The whole #1 thing and DC are proof unto themselves that frankly no, there aren’t these masses of new readers just on the horizon waiting to come over but all that backstory scares them off. Similarly they’ve pandered to the movies in the past and the truth is THEY don’t stick around either. And changing the universe to reflect that won’t help. I mean my God Superior got an increase in numbers despite the fact that everything from the title to the concept of that book is the exact opposite thing to pull in the wake of a successful motion picture like 2012’s ASM. The fact is that history shows us that pandering to the movie crowd is at best a short term gimmick, it’s not sustainable at all and ultimately the same die-hard fans who’ve supported the industry remain. And that’s because comics frankly are inherently niche in a world of films, TV, video games and other media that just wasn’t there or wasn’t the same back in the 1960s.

   The trading attitude has remained even though it’s literally never yielded solid results across the last 15 years.

   @#49-I respect Miles but Peter, followed by Mayday is where my heart lies

2. I would not be interested in reading a Miles Morales Spider-Man over Peter Parker.

3. More like Bizzaro world.

4. Anybody else having trouble loading the map?

5. @44
   “he number of people who go see marvel studios films is astronomically higher than those who read the comics.”

   Maybe people just aren’t interested in comic books. A movie is a one-time investment of $12 or less. Comic books require monthly investments and over time can become costly.

6. 44 – Perhaps marvel is not so confident as we are that they could effectively appeal to both. As a perfect example, constantly rebooting books. Long time readers generally do not like this, they want to numbering to continue. Marvel does it anyway because they believe it makes the book more appealing to new readers. That’s en either/or — either you start the book over or you don’t. Theoretically one with result in more total readers than the other.

   Similarly, I would suppose that however many readers they feel they could retain maintaining the status quo is not as many as they believe they can gain by shaking it up. This is partly why I personally believe they’re trying to change continuity to line up with the movies. The number of people who go see marvel studios films is astronomically higher than those who read the comics. Even if they traded their entire current comic audience they’d probably get more readers with a tenth of those who see the films.

   I’m not saying this is what I would do or that I support it — but this approach of trading old readers because they believe they can get more by appealing to new ones instead is something they’ve been doing for a long time now. It shows no signs of going anywhere. The best we can do is say “okay,” stop buying their books, and see if it works for them. Maybe it’ll fail miserably and they’ll come crawling back trying to appeal to their old readers, but my guess is they wouldn’t bother. We are a tiny little pittance compared to their real source of income. They could lose us altogether and not really feel a hit.

7. @#42-The thing is how can saying “get lost” to one set of customers in order to get new ones be good business practice when you could have your cake and eat it by appealing to both?

8. @41 – I don’t disagree with you at all! I think the smartest decision would be the Dr. Who approach of trying to do both at once.

   However I think Marvel disagrees with us. And who knows, maybe they’re right from a business perspective. I don’t know about you but I don’t have an MBA or anything. I just try to use common sense.

9. @#37-They co-ordinated it so you got like as full a story as possible then you’d get the next arc. Like they wouldn’t do Marvel Knights by Millar and an ASm issue by JMS in the same month. They’d finish JMS’ arc then give you 2-3 issues of Millar each month until he was done then move on. Also they’d throw in like a silver/bronze age story here and there.

   @#38-But they approach doesn’t work. What they’re doing neither gets them what they want nor does it ensure the old guys stick around. Doing what say Spec Spidey the cartoon did and making the stories something for every age group, or what Dr. Who did in making it new viewer friendly but also entertaining for older fans, is the smartest business decision. They’re philosophies are jacked up. Especially when you consider I am IN the age range they’re looking for.

   @#39-40-I read and loved Spider-Man for YEARS without having read or knowing about that history. You do stuff in the here and the now which is good and respects history, and if you do it right you can draw upon if for epic runs like Millar’s Marvel Knights series. At the same time the nature of comics as a continuous medium encourages people follow along, thus you can’t complain about older fans. Continuity means people WILL stick around that’s the point. It’s not a medium which works with the idea of rotating fans. This isn’t 1950s DC, those times are long gone

10. I don’t quite see the point of exchanging one group of readers for another. Unless they’re hoping the new readers become long-time readers. But really, who has the money to buy comics…I’m going to say older readers and teens who have jobs. I wonder how many parents buy comics for their kids on a regular basis, especially at $4 a pop.

11. As a “new” reading picking up my first comic in the early 90s, there was over 30 years of history I had already missed. I jumped right in and quickly caught on. I didn’t think I was missing out on anything, but as a collector and a Spidey fan, I do enjoy obtaining those back issues to read. I have all the published Essentials and I’m currently working on filling in my collection with back issues. As of right now I’d say I’m missing about 10 years (most of the 80s into the early 90s).

12. @34 – completely agree with you that it’s making the comics worse, this approach of sacrificing continuity for new readers. But I think we are going to have to get used to it because I think Marvel has made it abundantly clear that they do not care what we think. If they don’t care it doesn’t matter how much we shout about it. It doesn’t even matter if we stop buying the books. They want new young readers and that’s that.

13. @36 – I like the idea of reading three comics at once, not so sure I like waiting three months to read the continuation of a story though.

14. @#33-Here in the UK our recap pages were actually much more detailed and gave you ALL the essential info you needed for that specific issue you were reading. Bearing in mind our issues reprinted THREE US stories so that was a lot of back story they succinctly summed up and let you in on. No one was ever lost. It’s like how on TV shows (e.g. Gargoyles or Once Upon a Time) when they show you quick clips from older episodes which will be relevant for that forthcoming episode.

15. @#29-I don’t agree whatsoever given that the challenges of accessability for someone coming in during say the 90s aren’t different dramatically to those in the 2010s. If 50 years of back history is apparently impossible to handle then 30 years shouldn’t be much different. But it was fine. Me and my friends coped just fine due to HOW the stories were presented. Modern day Dr. Who equally respected and retains most of it’s 50 year history without shedding the baggage and it’s one of the most popular shows in the world. It’s not about the presence of continuity, it’s good writing and presentation. You can make it accessable if you try hard enough and the presence of that old continuity far from hampers you, it can in fact enrich your story. At the same time the new fans can just read the old stories. The notion of cycling fans is antiquated and died pretty much when FF #1 came out. DON’T retell the same shit, tell NEW stuff and the new fans can enjoy seeing the old stuff for themselves as it’s new to them.

16. @#28-I don’t see why we need to get used to it when the medium is genuinely lesser for what it has become. It shouldn’t be what you say and even in the movies the continuity is still part of the appeal given that people evidently enjoyed following each Phase 1 MCU film until it culminated in Avengers. At the same time TV, perhaps the most prolific format for quality drama these days, has also moved towards emphasising continuity. At the same time the comics don’t get fuelled by the films. Time has shown us they get a temporary boost from the films but it doesn’t really last. They need to function independently and chasing synergy has always been an idiotic idea by Marvel, Disney, etc.

17. @#27
    “Remember how Spidey had those goofy thought captions summing up his current situation? That’s all you need and/or use a friggin recap page!”

    I completely agree. Sure the first page summary is okay, but I think the above is why Spidey comics over the last decade+ read a lot differently from those issues I grew up reading in the 90s, and as I’m reading re-prints and back issues, over most of the Spidey lifespan.

18. #24 I would actually be disappointed if Marvel went in that direction. Part of the joy I get out of reading comics is not only the monthly adventure, but watching the characters progress. Many of the plot lines which keep me reading are those that help advance the character. Keeping a character the same age may work in cartoons, but I don’t think so in comics. Obviously writers have the advantage of stretching out a year of a character’s life over multiple years of comic book releases. I don’t think I’d be fond of reading a comic just for the villain of the month.

19. They said Bucky would never come back…
    They said the Ultimate universe will never meet the 616 universe…
    They said they would never have a “Crisis” universe rebooting event…
    Should I be hopeful that they said Peter will never be married again? Even if it’s not right now?

20. I hate how every newssite just posts hyperbolic bullshit from a reboot and not even listen what exactly was said.
    This is no reboot. Its a merge. Nothing else. Everything has still happened, but it seems that hyperbolic bullshit news generate clicks, so I can at least understand a little bit why you all are making shitty journalism.
    Also, is even a possiblity that we get our married Peter Parker back!

    And nothing lasts forever. Peter Parker was marketed as permanently dead. And the last time I checked the current Amazing Spider-Man book, I saw the Earth 616 Peter Parker. Calm down everybody!

21. I have mixed feelings about all of this. Conway tweeted that this will give new fans to have a childhood with Marvel. I kind of agree with that in a way. Us older fans have loved to be there for the stories of the older Marvel universe, while newer fans(and kids) stare at us and have no clue what we’re talking about. Sure, the newer fans know the main stories….but do they know the minor stories? I think it would be fun for them to see how it unfolds from the start. But, on the con….the older fans will be upset. This doesn’t mean the last 50 years didn’t happen in our hearts….just not on paper anymore. Parts will be fused together is all we know about the new Marvel universe. What parts? I have a feeling they don’t fully know yet and they need to see reactions from fans. Will this end all the issues fans have had with Marvel for the last 10 years? Not really, but it could help some characters. Take Cyclops for instance. He is a true hero, but in recent years….that character has taken “comic suicide” in a way that it’s almost impossible to redeem that character in the eyes of many fans. Take Iron Man for instance. Before he was a hero….but real fans will blame him for manipulating Spidey and technically being responsible for killing Captain America(and let’s not even discuss the Superior life he’s living now). Would we, as older fans, ever forgive him? If we look at Spidey these days….we have mixed emotions. Sure, he’s still the fun-loving Peter we knew for years….but let’s be honest…..something is missing. This could fix these issues. Now, am I a fan of the total re-boot? Of course not cause I also never wanna sit through another origin story of some of these characters(hey….maybe Silk won’t exist anymore….heehee). But, we’ll see what they have planned. I refuse to accept that everything is ending until I see it with my own eyes.

22. @27: What readers like us have to get used to is that continuity WAS a huge part of marvel’s appeal, but marvel’s appeal has changed. Marvel’s appeal is mainly movies and merchandising now. Comic books are for them at best R & D for marvel studios.

    This is why I think they’re heading towards restructuring the comic book universe to align with the films. That’s their main business now so that’s what the comics are going to be dependent on.

23. I also wholly disagree with the whole “You need to shed decades of baggage because it holds you back”. That’s an attiude echoed everywhere as if it’s an actual fact but the real fact is it is a bunch of BS and always has been because books WERE new reader friendly from the 1960s-1990s. They STOPPED being that due to a change in format and narrative style, not because it became IMPOSSIBLE to do. Remember how Spidey had those goofy thought captions summing up his current situation? That’s all you need and/or use a friggin recap page! Shedding the continuity is just lazy as hell and counter to a massive part of Marvel’s appeal in the first place. Stagnate status quos suck and Marvel was at it’s best in the 60s and 80s when they DIDN’T have those.

24. I don’t understand people saying making Miles part of the Marvel Universe proper would be a good thing. A massive part of Miles’ appeal is that he is THE Spider-Man of his universe, a world where Spider-Man died heroically and publically. That’s sore to his character and his origin and just straight up can’t be done if you tried to consolidate him into the mainstream universe. Miles needs to be in his own space much like Mayday parker and Spider-Gwen.

25. If marvel wants to tell new stories so badly then they could’ve announced continuity-free Spidey titles like “The Untold Tales Of Spider-Man” or “Peter Parker: Spider-Man”. Rebooting the contiuity isn’t the solution for that.

    The idea of merging Ultimate Universe characters into the 616 Universe sounds like a recipe for disaster. The Ultimate Universe characters should stay where they truly belong.

26. One very telling comment that we seem to be overlooking is when Axel Alonso was reported to have done this at the Secret Wars announcement:

    “If you’re an ‘Amazing Spider-Man’ reader, this is going to be your book,” Alonso said, pointing to the teaser of a married Peter Parker and Mary Jane with a child.

    If this really is an indication that Marvel is going to use Secret Wars to actually undo One More Day, and give Peter and MJ and kid to boot, then I find it absolutely hysterical that, after eight years of Marvel telling us how necessary One More Day was for the future of Spider-Man as a viable comic book franchise, of Tom Brevoort saying Spider-Man was about “youth” in the manifesto he drafted for Brand New Day, of how Joe Quesada made the claim that soap-opera romance was the defining characteristic that distinguished Spider-Man from all the other Marvel superheroes, that Marvel would then essentially go, “Um…yeah, about that whole deal with Mephisto to erase Peter and MJ’s marriage. Guess we really did screw-up on that one, huh?”

    Of course, if this is a return of a married Peter, then I wouldn’t be surprised if, seeing how the Ultimate is being merged with the 616, if this is also a way for Miles Morales to be groomed as the more prominent Spider-Man with Peter acting as a mentor.

27. Unless someone pointed it out elsewhere and I missed it, I wanted to say: J.R. called it in the piece he wrote about OMD. It was something to the effect that Mr. Quesada was probably using OMD as “shock treatment” for a reboot of the whole Marvel Universe. I believe he made the further observation that creative people, like those at Marvel, would probably prefer to tell the stories they want to tell without the weight of decades of continuity (no present-day Gwen Stacy stories, no Skrull throneworld or throne, how many changes in the NY underworld, how many goblins and how much history among them, etc.).

    I can see why, to an extent (again, cite sources – not familiar with J.R.’s example on this next point, but paraphrasing his reasoning with something I do know): The Hardy Boys stories of the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s. Set status quo, always 17 year old Joe Hardy and his 18 year old brother Frank. Same close friends, girlfriends, famous detective dad Fenton and wife Laura (ha ha), and fussy Aunt Gertrude. Cases, danger and criminals, but you know the status quo when you pick up any book, no need to read #1-99 if you just want to enjoy #100. Even when they solve multiple mysteries set during Halloween, summer, etc. over the years it is always the same status quo and the Hardys are the same age (yes, I’m ignoring the darker Casefiles series, which had some continuity and progression though the ages stayed the same).

    Marvel would love to be that “new reader friendly,” and have even more synergy with the movies to build brand loyalty and interest across multiple platforms between blockbusters.

    J.R. called it. I wish he had been wrong.

    “Marvel does not need a Crisis. We got our characters right the first time.” –Mark Gruenwald (the late great)

28. I’m cautiously enthusiastic! Both as a Spider-fan and a Marvel fan, a soft reboot seems like a cool way to streamline the Marvel Universe(s). Miles Morales (and, to a lesser extent, Ultimate Nick Fury) are basically floundering in an otherwise played-out, creatively-bankrupt sideverse, and them just dimension-hopping to the 616 would rob Miles of his supporting cast and saddle both with horribly-convoluted origin stories (you know, like Nick Fury ‘Jr.’ already has at the moment). Making them part of the ‘one true’ Marvel U from the get-go is probably the best way to go. Sucks for fans of the original Nick Fury, but aside from the classic Kirby & Steranko runs and the already out-of-continuity MAX stuff by Garth Ennis, not that much would be invalidated I reckon. As for everybody’s friendly neighborhood Spider-Man: between Spiderverse #2 and the Renew Your Vows teasers I’m hopeful that Marvel is going to undo OMD and bring back the marriage! Personally, I’ve been enjoying the post-BND stories and Slott’s take on the character a lot, but single Spidey never really yielded the results it could have, and, gosh darn it, I just plain miss MJ as a regular romantic interest for the character. And with younger, single, high-school going Miles also in the picture, Marvel/us fans can have our cake and eat it too…

    Any other continuity tweaks you fine folks would like to see or think’ll be likely as a result of…(booming voice)…the SECRET WARS?

29. Unless Joe Q hears all the Whos down and Whoville singing and his heart grows three sizes that day, I doubt OMD is going anywhere. In fact I’d say this story could put even more distance between Peter and the marriage then we had before. I’m not holding my breath that just because Miles is around in 616 (something I don’t want, since he’ll just become lost in a world full of Spider-People.) that they will stop pushing the young unmarried Peter.

    And this whole mess would be worth it if at the end they brought in a new writer to take on Spider-Man in it’s wake, however, I think Slott will still be firmly in place when all the dust clears from this.

30. @19 That’s my hope too. Goodbye OMD, hello MJ.

31. it might need pruning. Read something last year about spider verse initially being considered for a spock story but the suits wanted it and not unseasonably so to be a peter story. If slott knew the marvel marvel universe was coming to an end would have been a ballsy story to have peter killed by ock and then spock fighting it out in this spiderverse and secret war to loose and be retconed.

    Other hand is a very peter story to go out on. to come back from the dead and have your universe destroyed.

    @ if mavel haven’t come up with that they’d wish they had. From a marketing point of view very good though accept it could be a bit of a drag on creativity and disrespect for continuity built up over years.

32. Hopefully Spidey will remarry and find his daughter before the merge-boot. After that they’ll probably leave him as a young single adult because they have Miles for high school. Overall Slott’s run won’t change and they’ll remove the OMD stain on the books. Well I hope things go this way.

33. I can see this as being a soft reboot of the Universe. I can see it being less “Discard stuff they don’t like” and more “Keep stuff that they feel works.”

    I doubt they will go the route that DC did with the Nu52 and establish that “The Marvel U. is only 5 years old,” given the logistical problems that created for them. I see it more “Pretty much everything happened the way you remember, except Nick Fury was black, and Miles Morales debuted in this Universe as well.”

34. @15 – if they did this they presumably would not try to make the comics align with non Marvel Studios films. More likely than trying to make it all in the same universe though is that they’d probably try to make the comic universe mirror the film one, so they technically can have more characters but readers will feel like they already know what’s going on even if they’ve only seen the films.

    However even if I’m wrong about this, I bet chances are very good that at the end of it all spider-man in the main continuity — whatever that is — will be a teen again. It certainly seems like that’s what marvel wants him to be.

35. Does this mean they can undo everything Slott has done with spider-man? And I can finally go back to liking spider-man comics and peter not being a douche.

36. @#14-I really hope not. It’d also mean no F4 and a teen Spider-Man.

37. This is a reboot in some form or another. There is no way around that. Even if they don’t call it one, that’s effectively what it will be. Because once these universes have collided, even if they somehow separate out again with the same characters, it will be all the excuse that’s needed by writers and editors to change the continuity in any way they see fit. And I think we all know marvel’s current editorial staff well enough to know that is what they want.

    My guess is they’re going to restructure the universe when all this is said and done so that it’s in line with the movie universe, so all their comics can be direct movie tie-ins, or at least feel familiar to readers who started by watching the films.

    Either way, it’s probably the last nail in the coffin when it comes to me as a reader. If it’s anything like what it looks like right now I’ll lose interest altogether.

38. @12 – There have been so many temporary status quo changes in recent Marvel books, I’m starting to seriously think they really don’t know what to do with the 616 universe.

    However I’d like to retract part of my earlier “pulling a New 52” statement. As I wouldn’t mind seeing a rebooted Amazing Spider-Man that is of the same quality of the New 52 main Batman book.

39. What the….. ? Why are Marvel pulling crappy stunt events like this recently? First Civil War, next the Ultimatum, then killing off the Ultimate Peter Parker, and then replacing the 616 Peter with Doc. Ock, Cataclysm…. Ugh!

    But seriously, Marvel dosen’t need to pull a New 52 reboot like DC did. That’s a cheap way to get people buy their books.

40. I wish I could care.

41. Heroes Reborn 2?

42. This sounds like Amalgam world (the 90s return!), except they’re merging with themselves instead of with DC.

43. @#7-I not only hope so but how it’s being phrased makes me think that. It sounds like it’s gonna be the AoA except on a longer term basis.

44. My gut says this is an Age Of Apocalypse scenario and Battleworld will be pulled back apart in August for a September relaunch. That gives them four months of the fun novelty alternate universe books, then they can continue forward with a rebuilt MU that resembles the old one with some tweaks. Miles Morales being merged into the 616 may well be one such tweak.

45. I won’t mind a reboot in the vain of Crisis of Infinite Earths, (though even that was eventually given a recon) Though pulling a “New 52”, is not ideal, as I feel that has been less than successful.

46. If Marvel wanted to, they could resurrect Gwen Stacey. Not sure if I’d be in favor of that. Aside from Uncle Ben’s death, Stacey’s demise is part of what drives Peter to be Spider-Man.

47. So Marvel is basically pulling a New 52? Does this mean that the new Re-booted Spider-Man is going to be a combination of the 616 and Ultimate versions of Peter? So what happens to Miles then? I hope he isn’t just erased from existence.

48. I like how the map doesn’t load.

49. If there is a book, it takes place on Battle World

50. So what exactly does this mean? Will there be a complete reboot where everything starts back to the origin of our heroes or will the universe just continue as it was, taking into account this new “merger?” I hope Marvel doesn’t do a reboot like DC did – I never want to read another Superman comic again.