“A home. A family. That’s was his dream. That’s all he ever wanted.”
So how do you celebrate the return of a popular Spider-Man spin-off character known for its bright and sunny optimism? Why stick her in a story about death, of course! Don’t worry, kids. We’ve got Spidey teaming up with another plucky young teenage girl to make it all better. Or try to, anyway.
“Ms. Adventures in Babysitting”
PLOT: Dan Slott
SCRIPT: Christos Gage
PENCILS: Giuseppe Camuncoli
INKS: Cam Smith
COLORS: Antonio Fabela
LETTERS: Chris Eliopoulos
“Edge of Spider-Verse: My Brother’s Keeper”
WRITER: Dan Slott
PENCILS: Humberto Ramos
INKS: Victor Olazaba
COLORS: Edgar Delgado
LETTERS: Chris Eliopoulos
COVER: Camuncoli, Smith, and Fabela
ASSOCIATE EDITOR: Ellie Pyle
EDITOR: Nick Lowe
STORY #1: As Spidey is fighting with the transformed Dr. Minerva, Kamala Khan, aka the new Ms. Marvel, is petrified with fear. Realizing she’s scared, Spidey tells Kamala to do his and Carol Danver’s “slingshot maneuver,” which Kamala gets all excited and they’re able to pull it off, knocking Dr. Minvera to the ground. They then are able to stop Dr. Minvera’s henchmen from escaping and rescue the Terrigen chrysalis. Dr. Minvera recovers, however, and attacks again, just as the chysalis starts to hatch. Meanwhile at the Fact Channel, Cindy Moon is called to Natalie Long’s office to look at the footage of Spidey and Silk’s fight with Black Cat and Electro from Amazing Spider-Man #6. Natalie states Silk can be for the Fact Channel what Spidey is for The Daily Bugle, only that her costume is “tacky.” Angry at the criticism, Cindy secretly leaves and decides to web herself a “makeover.” Later, Silk, in her new costume, apprehends the Ringer, while Natalie and her camera operator film the action.
Back at the fight with Dr. Minvera, Spidey and Kamala see that the Inhuman who hatched from the chrysalis is just a newborn baby. Kamala then takes the baby with Dr. Minvera’s henchmen in pursuit, while Spidey distracts Minvera by blinding her with the cocoon’s shell and residue. However, Dr. Minvera uses eye-beams to both remove the residue and blast Spidey. Kamala is also hit with a laser blast by the henchmen, but she angrily tells them they shot her while she’s was holding a baby. Hearing this, one the henchmen turns his gun—a sonic rifle he himself put together on the spot—and turns it on his own partners. Then, to not scare the baby, he removes his mask, showing he’s a blond guy with beard. Both Kamala and the bearded henchmen return to Spidey fighting Dr. Minvera, who again states how she’s harvesting Inhuman DNA to create Kree super-soldiers. This leads both Kamala and the henchman to ask where are these Kree super-soldiers, and why bother hiring normal humans to herl her? This makes Spidey realize Dr. Minvera’s “mission” is unsanctioned by the Kree Empire, so he calls Avengers Tower to send a message to Kree space about what Dr. Minvera is doing on Earth. The bluff works, and Dr. Minvera flies away. Spidey, Kamala, and the henchman return the baby to her parents at St. Luke’s Hospital, where Spidey congratulates Kamala on a job well done. He also thanks the henchman for his help, and recognizes him as the adult Clayton Cole, aka Clash, from “Learning to Crawl.” Spidey gives Clayton a Parker Industries business card, thus giving Clayton a new job working for Peter’s company.
STORY #2: At Forest Hills, NY, on Earth-982, the Parker house is burning, and Morlun’s older brother, Daemos, is about to kill Mayday Parker, aka Spider-Girl. Her boyfriend, Wes Westin, tries to stop Daemos, but the Inheritor flings him to the fireplace wall where he collapses with a sickening thud. Peter, in spite of his artificial leg, leaps at Daemos, knocking him away from Mayday, while Mary Jane holds her and Peter’s infant son, Benjy. As Peter tells Daemos to leave his daughter alone, the Inheritor says he’s not just going to eat Mayday, but also him and Benjy, as well, and that Peter knows he cannot stop him. So Peter tells MJ he loves her and to save the kids as he tries to keep Daemos at bay. MJ, however, chooses to stay and help Peter, so she forces Mayday to get up, gives her Benjy, and to run and never look back. As Mayday flees with her brother, a dimensional portal opens and out steps Spider-UK and the “Last Stand Spidey” from Amazing Spider-Man #500. They tell Mayday to come with them, but she says they have to go back and help her dad. Last Stand Spidey, however, says their readings detect only two spider-totems—herself and her baby brother. Daemos emerges from the house, gloating as he drags Peter’s corpse behind him. Mayday then swears that, to save her brother and avenge her family, she will “break every vow she’s been taught” by her father and kill Daemos. And as she vanishes with the other Spider-Men, Daemos states that, when they meet again, she’s “more than welcome to try.”
THOUGHTS: When the cover and solicitation for Amazing Spider-Man (2014) #8 was announced several months ago, it caused a stir. After all, there was Spider-Girl, a beloved fan favorite (especially for supporters of Peter and Mary Jane’s marriage) and notable for having the longest running Marvel Comics title with a female superhero as the lead, with her costume torn, surrounded by flames, with the solicit saying how she and her family would be attacked by “mysterious forces” behind Spider-Verse. Given how the lead up to the event has had Morlun and his siblings killing off various alternate Spider-Men and Women, and various preview pages showing Mayday and her folks being attacked by one of those siblings, fans feared the worst, and the caption on the cover which says “Spider-Girl’s Last Stand!” didn’t serve to set anyone at ease. Obviously, this was Marvel intent, an attempt at convincing fans they would kill off Mayday to generate sales, even though logically it wouldn’t make sense for them to kill her off after bringing her back and devoting a story to her. Overlooked in all this was the main story of the issue continuing Spidey and Kamala Khan’s team-up. Which, from a marketing standpoint, makes sense since the main story, just like last issue, is a lighthearted, fun, but mostly unmemorable romp.
One of the things the team-up between Spidey and the new Ms. Marvel gets right is because Peter used to be the original teenage superhero, he knows exactly what Kamala, as a teenager superhero, is going through. This puts him into the role of a coach and mentor, one which, as past stories have shown, fits Spidey really, really well. And both Spidey and Kamala prove to have a very good teacher and student relationship. After all, Kamala shares many similarities to a teenage Peter in many ways, in that she, too, has to balance her life as a superhero with the responsibilities of family, school, and friendships. Also, like Spidey, she’s capable of making mistakes, and learning she can’t always rely on her powers at all times, that sometimes you have to outsmart an enemy and not try to match them punch for punch. Granted, pairing Marvel’s flagship character with a new, younger up-and-comer is done to promote the new character and their comic, but Dan Slott and Christos Gage do a bang-up job, even if their conclusion is somewhat anti-climatic.
Not as successful, though, is the clumsily-added subplot done to promote whom Marvel desperately hopes will be their latest breakout female character, Silk, and her upcoming solo series. But rather than generating interest, the scenes devoted to her end up undermining her as long-standing, viable character in her own right in two significant ways. First, is that Cindy’s scenes are all about her making herself a new costume in order to look better on camera. To be fair, Cindy’s new outfit is an improvement over the excuse to swing around naked webbing garments she wore, but it also makes her look less distinctive as a character. Not only does the new costume generic, it makes Cindy look even more like the “sexy ninja stereotype” than she did before. The second problem is what Natalie Long mentions how Silk can do for the Fact Channel what Spider-Man did for The Daily Bugle. Couple this with Cindy working at a news station like Peter used to do, and she becomes just a female Spider-Man knock-off, only more so since she’s a product of the same radioactive spider, has the same but “better” powers, and even makes jokes and quips during fights. It’s one thing to have a superheroine who is a counterpart to an established male superhero, but it’s quite another to have that same superheroine be all but identical to the male superhero apart from their gender.
The last major development from the main story is, of course, having Clayton Cole officially be inducted into the supporting cast. It didn’t come as a surprise that Clayton was Dr. Minvera’s henchmen, as his statement from last issue about how he and Spidey had a history was dead giveaway. What was unexpected, however, was Clayton deciding to turn over a new leaf and Peter hiring him to work for Parker Industries. This was perfectly in-character of Spidey since, as the issue states, he’s all about second chances, and gives a bit more weight and importance to “Learning to Crawl” as a story. That said, if Slott’s idea was introduce a new supporting character who used to be one of Spidey’s villains from the early days who now becomes his employee, then why devote a whole five-part mini-series just to do this? Why not have it be some other established C-list villain from Spidey’s rogue’s gallery? I suppose having it be a new character instead of an old one allows more creative freedom since a reformed classic villain is far more likely to fall back into crime. Then again, so can the new character. At least, having Clayton work for Peter is a less obvious direction than him becoming Clash again after being let out of prison for a decade.
What is an obvious direction, however, is what happens to Mayday in the already controversial back-up story.
Now, I don’t mean to brag, but when I saw the cover for Amazing Spider-Man (2014) #8, my gut feeling was that Slott wasn’t going to kill off Mayday. Over on the Comic Book Resources community boards, I figured that if anyone was going to be killed in the story, it was going to be her parents, thus providing Mayday an additional motive in wanting stop the Inheritors because then it would be personal, and then she’d have the typical revenge-driven story arc heading into Spider-Verse that comic book writers so often crave just so they can “shake things up.” And sure enough, with the exception of some minor details, that’s exactly what happened, with the supposed death of her boyfriend, Wes, added to have even more angst.
I’m not angry so much over the MC2 Peter being killed, even though it’s yet another cheap death intended to show how evil the Inheritors are, as if we didn’t already know this after the numerous other times the Inheritors have killed alternate versions of Spider-Man and whomever gets in their way. Nor am I angry that the MC2 Mary Jane is also supposedly killed, especially since we don’t actually see as we never see her body, though that’s probably her screaming from inside the house. Also, much to my surprise, Slott portrayal of the MC2 Peter and MJ in their last moments was true to their characters. Their love, devotion, and sacrifice to each other and their children is a painful reminder of what the 616 Peter and MJ used to be like when they were together, and is just a stark contrast to who they’ve become ever since “One More Day,” including during Slott’s own tenure on Amazing Spider-Man. And given how Mayday is a teenage girl who just saw the deaths of her parents and boyfriend, who is now forced to take care of her baby brother, of course she’d want to kill the person responsible out of a sense of grief. I even think that the moment where the “Last Stand Spidey” giving comfort to the daughter he might have had was almost touching. No, I’m not angry because Mayday’s parents and boyfriend were apparently killed. What angers me is just how lazy, uninspired, and cliche-ridden this entire back-up story really was.
This certainly isn’t first time Slott has crafted very on-the-nose, expository-heavy dialogue to be sure; only in this particular case, every utterance by every character has all the grace and subtlety of a brick to the face. Bad enough you’ve got the MC2 Peter declaring “I have to be better than okay, I have to be amazing!” Or how Daemos boasts how he can’t be stopped, that he’ll find Mayday and her brother, that he will devour them, and blah, blah, blah ad nauseam. But when Slott has Mayday say to Daemos: “To save my brother and to avenge my family, I swear I’ll break every vow I’ve been taught. All the values my father held dear. And I will kill you?” Those particular lines are so thick you could use them as stucco for your house. It just tries so very, very hard to generate horror and tragedy that it winds up doing neither, cringing and groaning not because you feel bad for the characters, but because it’s so badly written.
And I think it’s a safe bet Mayday will not go through with her pledge. Oh sure, we’ll get all this pomp and circumstance about how she’s now “consumed by vengeance” and that the Inheritors “must pay for what they have done!” No doubt, she will wind up supporting Otto Octavious and his “kill or be killed” approach instead of the 616 Spidey’s “No one dies” mantra, thus creating an emotional tug-of-war between two alternate versions of her dad with two opposing philosophical differences—never mind, of course, that the 616 Spidey has technically killed Morlun twice already. And during a moment in which Mayday will have the opportunity to kill Daemos and take her revenge, she will stay her hand, realizing she is her “father’s daughter” after all, and that she is “better” because, despite her loss, she will not succumb to murder. Sure, there’s a chance things won’t turn out this way, that this won’t be a predictable revenge arc we all too often see in superhero comics, and thus this criticism will be all but moot. But at this point, Mayday’s story for Spider-Verse is looking woefully transparent in its eventual resolution.
At least the art for both stories are decent enough. Guiseppe Camuncoli, along with Cam Smith and Antonio Fabela, create some well-rendered, detailed illustrations while being able to convey a sense of action and movement. Of particular notice was the way Camuncoli was able to show facial expressions, even though there was one panel in particular where it looked as if Kamala was high on drugs due to the sixe of her eyes. Humberto Ramos, with Victor Olazaba and Edgar Delgado, once again draws some very dynamic, attention-grabbing visuals, even though he also succumbs to his usual tendency to have odd perspective angles and inconsistent body proportions. The odd thing is, if I were the editor on this book, I would have switched the artists for each story, with Ramos doing the main story and Camuncoli doing the back-up. Ramos’ more abstract style would seem like a natural in conveying Kamala’s shape-shifting and size-altering superpowers, while Camuncoli’s more realistic approach would fit with the attempted tone of the back-up. I suppose Ellie Pyle and Nick Lowe should be commended, however, for attempting to be a little offbeat when it comes to deciding which Spider-Man artist gets to tackle which story.
Even so, the art itself cannot save Amazing Spider-Man (2014) #8 as a whole. As enjoyable as the main story is, there’s not much beyond it being a fun story to really recommend it in my opinion, and the six-page back-up is just atrocious, especially if you’re a dedicated Spider-Girl fan. Just like Amazing Spider-Man (2014) #7, this comic merely a way to pad out time and promote Spider-Verse until it officially begins next issue. Only having now read both issues, I find myself less confident about and eager to read the upcoming event. The main story gets a “C+” or “B-“, while the back-up gets a “D-,” if not an “F,”, bringing the final grade point average for the comic down to an unfortunate:
D
NERDY NITPICKS:
- “You used [the Captain Marvel slingshot maneuver] against the Spider-Slayer’s insect army. And when you fought Terminus.” Gee, thanks Slott and Gage for reminding us about that story where Marla Jameson died and the debacle known as Alpha. Also, for a self-professed fan of Carol Danvers, shouldn’t Kamala know that Carol called herself Ms. Marvel instead of Captain Marvel during those times?
- What? No retort from Spidey telling Kamala that the “Fastball Special” is Colossus and Wolverine’s signature move? I mean, come on! That was a pretty easy opening for a wisecrack if there ever was one.
- So not only can Cindy make her organic webbing have different textures, be sticky, resemble cloth, have barbed tips, be insulated from electricity, be soft enough to cushion falling helicopters, it can also have different colors and pigments because…why the hell not, right? Now watch as she’ll also be able to make “copies” of herself out of webbing right down to the flesh tones to distract enemies. At this point Cindy’s webs are just like Green Lantern’s power ring in that she seemingly can use them to create anything she wants by sheer force of will. After all, if wasn’t clear enough yet, anything Peter can do, Cindy can do better.
- Okay, I know how I said it was pretty clear that the Dr. Minvera henchman who had a history with Spider-Man was Clayton Cole, but it’s not as if we could recognize him after he took his mask off. After all, just like he said, he looked just like any “regular dude” and there was nothing distinctive about him whatsoever. Heck, he could’ve passed for Johnny Storm with facial hair he was that generic.
- Kudos comic for reminding us that there are, in fact, blue-skinned and pink-skinned Kree. However, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe there are now more pink-skinned Kree than there are blue-skinned Kree, and therefore, are no longer, by definition, a minority. That’s because the pink-skinned Kree are the result of blue-skinned Kree inter-breeding with other species, particularly humans since, you know, the Kree were all about improving the variety of their gene pool and such.
- And just when I was starting to forgive the Avengers for their being a bunch of collective fools during Superior Spider-Man, we now learn that they play Taylor Swift’s “Shake It Off” while making callers wait on the line. Because after Psy’s “Gangnam Style,” we need yet another catchy pop song with millions of YouTube hits to be run into the ground and become dated within less than a year. Thanks “Earth’s Mightest Heroes!”
- Good job, Cindy! You’re “smooth as silk” catchphrase is right up there with Robert Van Winkle, aka Vanilla Ice, saying he’s “cool as ice.” And don’t you just love the fact that Natalie Long notices Silk’s new outfit coincidentally on the same day she told her intern, Cindy, about how Silk needed a new costume, yet doesn’t put two-and-two together that maybe Cindy and Silk are the same person? If Marvel and DC were part of the same universe, maybe Natalie went to the same school of journalism as Lois Lane.
- So let’s see…Spider-UK and “Last Stand Spidey” knew Mayday and her brother, Benjy, were in danger, hence their arrival at her dimension to save her from Daemos. And, based on whatever instruments they have, are able to find them as fellow spider-totems. And, since their instruments only detected Mayday and Benjy instead of Peter, this confirms, apart from seeing the body, that Mayday’s father is really dead. Only couldn’t their instruments have detected the MC2 Peter before they arrived at that dimension? And if they knew Mayday and her family were going to be under attack, why not arrive at that dimension sooner? Hmm…a bit too convenient for the story, don’t you think?
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@48 – Your very welcome 🙂
Yeah Marvel are transfixed on keeping Spider-man in this terrible ‘young’ state, and it looks pretty unlikely at the moment that he’ll be allowed to progress as a character. Sorry about misunderstanding what you meant by retiring Spider-Man, obviously Marvel will never get rid of Spidey just because he’s still a major cash-cow, and still viewed by many as their flagship character (though you can easily argue he isn’t anymore).
I don’t think Marvel hate Spider-Man. I get the feeling that they had no idea what to do with the character after they backed themselves into a corner by having Peter publicly unmask himself and become a fugitive during Civil War. Everything after that point has seemed like a poor attempt to recapture the ‘glory days’ of the 60’s and 70’s era Spider-Man, which is of course the complete opposite of what longtime fans want. I still think that with some editorial changes and Slott’s departure 616 Spider-Man will probably get back on track, but when that will actually happens anyone’s guess.
@#43
“Nerd, I agree with you ten fold, though I can never understand why Superior was the success…”
Probably because Slott surprised us by showing that he DOES get the character of Otto Octavius.
I agree with your point there Scarlet its just that Marvel will never allow it. Also my post did not indicate that I wanted Peter Parker to be replaced by another Spider-Man what I was just trying to say was if Marvel can’t bring themselves to write Peter properly then maybe they should end the Spider-Man line to not just to Peter but also to his other versions currently running out, that way we can all breath a sign of relief that Peter Parker isn’t being trashed any longer……but I completely agree with you there Scarlet Spider buddy there is still hope, its just that its hard to hope for this character since he hasn’t been fixed in such a long time. Man why does Marvel hate this character. Once again I respect your opinion, this was my first time engaging myself with another fan, thanks for the reply buddy.
@46 – Disregarding the fact that Peter still has the potential to be a great character again if he’s developed in a sensible fashion. People will never be happy with the replacement. Who would you even chose to permanently replace Peter? Otto?, Kaine? This 616 version of Miles that’s been teased a few times?. I can’t think of anyone that would work as a permanent replacement. It would be the Spider-Ben situation all over again.
Maybe Peter Parker should just retire being Spider-Man, lets face it you can never please anyone, if Spider-Man was written like he was before brand new day you would still have people complaining that “WAHHH! WAHHH! Why is Spider-Man being written in a mature manner? He is suppose to be an idiot and have sex with lots of different women as I was like that when I was in High school and College!” and so because of this Marvel will continue to ape the early Stan Lee/Steve Ditko stories for many years to come and they won’t stop and if you are bored with that then they quite simply don’t care as they are writing the book for themselves. My God are Marvel obsessed with that era and they will do everything in their power to state that the other eras of Spider-Man were horrible. So yeah like I said Peter Parker should just retire as it will be better for everything as ever since 2008 Peter Parker has been insulated by the creators at Marvel in the sense that he’s written like a idiot, says things that don’t make sense and obsesses over women all the time like a freaking cheerleader, a good portion of his fan base won’t let him change as they are too addicted to the stupid 15 year old Peter Parker model (they are already have a 15/16 year old Peter Parker in Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man TV Series, Ultimate Spider-Man TV Series and Learning to Crawl, how much more material do we need of a young Peter Parker?) and can’t see anything past this and the fact that the character keeps on getting rebooted as soon as the sales slide a bit now and then which is annoying as neat stories have been built up.
‘Nerd, I agree with you ten fold, though I can never understand why Superior was the success it was because it didn’t really play with the characters in the way many of us intended…everyone had to act like a gullible idiot to get from point A to B. Being the 50th anniversary saga, It should have been a celebration of exactly how far characters like May, MJ and the heroes Peter had surrounded himself with had come and how they could not be fooled so easily by Ock’s deception…but instead they are reduced to petty hollow parodies of themselves while Slott devoted time and energy to his original creations, including one last attempt at making Carlie Cooper relevant when noone wanted to see any more of her. Now there is’nt one likeable member of Peter’s world in the bunch, not even the flagship character. It’s all centered on all those different people and Spiders, and Marvel are content with wiping the slate clean of any positive development with Peter in other realitys.
I have this theory, with the way 616 has shaped up over the years, that Marvel actually want you to root AGAINST their mainstream canon, because it’s too corrupt, too depressing, too desperate, and they want universes with niche fanbases to be the “good guys”, I don’t know how right I am about this, I’m probably a bit off-base, but if their intent is’nt to make me wish 616 was a victim of incursion, they have fumbled right into a metafictional storytelling oppertunity that I would hope they cease advantage of
@#18 Daniel Once again a great, spot on review stillanerd. Keep up the good work! Think you’ve totally spoiled the Mayday arc in this event haha.
Thanks, Daniel. Although, I’m hoping I’m merely being presumptuous when it comes to Mayday’s arc. After all, my track record for predicting upcoming storylines is pretty lousy. 😉
@#19 & #23 QuilSniv — Thanks, QuilSniv! Even though we differ on the grades for the main story, I agree that it’s still a fun read, and you’re right about Gage doing a bang-up job with Kamala as a character. And I also hope Spider-Verse does end on a triumphant note, as well, which I think, in spite of all these Spider-Men being gruesomely killed off, it has a chance to do.
Also, I believe Kamala is not talking about the number of times Carol spins Spidey during the maneuver but rather the number of times she’s seen it. Although, that makes me wonder which four times Spidey and Carol did the slingshot maneuver. There’s your homework assignment for today, Spidey and Carol fans!
@#31 Jack — You’re analysis of the problems with Slott’s writing is quite unique and makes sense, Jack. In terms of his ideas, I would argue they are creative when it comes to Spider-Man, although right now, I do think he’s starting treading similar grounds. For example, parts of Goblin Nation contained similar story beats to Spider-Island. Also, by Slott’s own admission, Spider-Verse is essentially Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions on steroids. When it comes to comedy (which is very difficult to write), Slott usually does it very well, even if it can be heavily dependent upon previous continuity and pop culture. I do agree, however, that Slott falls into the trap of trying too hard to mimic other comic book writers, especially Stan Lee, and I wonder if this has anything to do with him using the Marvel Method that Stan Lee himself used when writing comics.
@#35 Nick MB — Oh, no question that when Slott is on his game, or if he’s writing characters he’s actually interested in (Doc Ock, the teenage Peter Parker), then his work can be fun to read, and he has a unique ability to get a person emotionally invested in the story. Even if you didn’t like what was going on in Superior Spider-Man, for example, you still wanted to know what was going happen next. And part this, I think, does come from the fact that, like those reading Amazing Spider-Man, Slott himself is huge fan of the character. However, that’s a double-edged sword, since being a fan writing stories about the character you are fan of can have a negative impact on the writing because you’re too close to it.
@#40 MC3 — I don’t think it’s so much people have stopped caring about Spider-Man; rather, it’s what he’s developed into, and I think a lot of that has to do with the aftermath of Superior Spider-Man. As problematic and controversial as Superior Spider-Man was, one of the reasons I believe it was successful is because, by having Doc Ock play the part of Spidey, it completely subverted all the tropes we associate with Spider-Man. So when Peter was going to be brought back, the assumption was that Peter would have to deal with the fallout of what Doc Ock did, and perhaps grow, change, and develop as a result. Except he hasn’t. He’s still acting the same way he did before Doc Ock swapped his mind. One very spot-on point the folks at Chasing Amazing and Superior Spider-Talk have made is no one, not even Peter himself, is really addressing the huge elephant in the room: that Doc Ock–a guy who nearly destroyed the world, don’t forget–murdered Peter, stole his body and very identity, and emotionally took advantage of everyone around him for his own gain. And rather than going “what an evil scumbag,” Peter and Anna Maria are all, “Well, Otto was a jerk, but at least his heart was in the right place.” And, when compared to some of the other alternate Spider-Man, including SpOck, Peter comes off dull by comparison based on the way Slott has been writing him these past eight issues. It’s no wonder in their promotion of Spider-Verse, the folks at Marvel are trying to get readers all excited about Spider-Gwen, Silk, SpOck, Spider-Woman, Ben Reilly, Mayday, Miles Morales, etc. except for Peter.
@#41 Edwin — I can only speak for myself, Edwin, but one of the reasons why I’m being so critical is because, like you, the other commentators, and Dan Slott hiimself, is that I’m also fan of Spider-Man. And I’m also being critical is because I know Slott can do better; heck, I gave very high marks to the Edge of Spider-Verse’s Superior Spider-Man issues not that long ago. Now, if I came across as cynical, then I apologize. But my frustration comes out of wanting to see quality storytelling for Spider-Man as well as having those stories be fun to read. After all, I think we can all agree that we want the best for Spidey, or rather the best kind of stories for Spidey, not merely settle for something adequate just because it has Spidey in it. And yes, that’s keeping in mind that not every story is going to be “The Night Gwen Stacy Died” or “Nothing Stops the Juggernaut” or “Kraven’s Last Hunt” or the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko run. After all, if, as that article you linked to stated “Why can’t we say that we liked something, say why, and leave it at that?” it also means people can be honest about why they didn’t like something, say why, and leave it that, too. Still, I respect your opinion and glad you voiced it.
@41 – “I don’t think I’m gonna visit this site anymore. No one here seems to even want to try to enjoy Spider-Man comics for what they are now. You guys take care.”
The other review of this same issue is mostly positive and got a ‘B.’
My most recent two reviews of Spider-related titles here on the site? Both A+.
Recently an Edge of Spider-Verse review (#5) also got an A+ from its reviewer.
On the most recent podcast we gushed over Superior Spider-Man #33’s main story.
You’re seeing what you choose to see. Do we have problems with ASM right now? You betcha, and for solid reasons. But there’s other Spider-stuff out there that we’re also enjoying and we’ve been pretty vocal about it.
@41 – That’s unfair. I, (and I’m sure other commenters) are trying to enjoy these issues, but we can’t pretend that we’re happy with the direction this series is taking.
How can you say we aren’t trying to enjoy Spider-Man comics when I’ve seen almost unanimously positive feedback for Miles Morales, 2099, Superior Foes, Edge of Spider-Verse, and even Learning To Crawl on this site.
Alright guys. You clearly all have informed opinions and I’m not gonna tell you guys you’re wrong. But the wanton cynicism that pervades both these comments and some reviews in this site has been REALLY getting to me.
http://thehaunteddrive-in.blogspot.com/2013/08/cynics-will-kill-us-all.html?m=1
I don’t think I’m gonna visit this site anymore. No one here seems to even want to try to enjoy Spider-Man comics for what they are now. You guys take care.
(I posted this on a previous review. Honestly I just want to get this off my chest. I doubt anyone would care, and that’s fine. I’m out of here.)
#35, I don’t find Slott’s work “fun” at all. And you know what I say this AS? A Slott fanboy. That man is/was/is one of my favourite Marvel writers growing up in the 90s and throughout the 2000s courtesy of She-Hulk, I enjoyed Learning to Crawl this year, where he, as he did with MC2 Peter and MJ, actually behaved himself with Lee/Ditko-era Peter, and despite the fact it’s just Doctor Who on a surfboard, I do like Silver Surfer. I have found Slott an ill fit for 616 post-OMD Peter Parker since 2008, and I’ve always had a nagging suspicion he’s allowed to whatever he wants because Marvel know the current timeline is probably even more disposable than the one they got rid of.
People picking a “fun but dumb” over consistency and continuity is not a telling sign of genuine care to me. It’s almost as if these fans have forgotten, or have chosen to forgotten, what made Spider-Man special and unique, what made him captivating and endearing, and now all they want is to be driven to distraction with him. I don’t care if it’s “entertaining” escapism, I care, as do others, about the kind of value for money we are missing. And no amount of pro-Slott spin from you about the warm reception of the book is going to convince me and those others of the simple fact those people just. don’t. care. about. spider-man.
@37 – I’m not just talking about this issue though, since Spider-Verse started grim images of dead Spider-Men have been featured. May’s horrible cliched ‘revenge’ dialogue at the end of the issue more than makes up for the lack of someone ‘crying on a gargoyle’. This whole event is not fun and that’s why it’s dragging.
I’m not disagreeing with you though. Slott has sold his entire run on being ‘fun. I’m just saying that he attempts to get serious things become gratuitously violent and he just starts killing people off left and right. Once that starts the stories aren’t fun.
As fr the issue itself I am mad about the deaths due to my emotional investment in them. I’m also mad that frankly this was unnecesarry, mean spirited and borderline trolling. And finally this was the single most detirmental thing you could ever do with Spider-Girl ever. I am dead goddam serious. You know all those BS arguments people roll out for why Aunt May is the ‘heart of the book’ and why she’s too important to kill off? Those arguments are actually VALID when you’re talking about Peter and MJ in relation to Spider-Girl. You cannot do Spider-Girl without her parents and say it’s the same thing which holds the same fundamental appeal because it doesn’t. It eviscerates the emotional core of the character and series. And even if it’s been done for a storytelling purpose that’s irrelevant if that purpose is detirmental in the long term. Jean DeWolff died for a good story but she left a hole in the franchise which has never ever been filled
@36 But it is still framed as a six-page story with fairly upbeat art by Ramos. No-one’s crying on a gargoyle or sitting in the dark for half an issue over it, the story just whips along to the next thing that it hopes might entertain us. (Although personally I think he’s close to labouring this Morlun-kills-Spideys beat a little, but it’s probably more or less over now anyway.)
@35 – I’m not finding Spider-Verse very fun though. Seeing all these crumpled up and mangled fan-favourite Spider-Men is the direct opposite of fun, it’s needlessly morose.
@31 “As McQ has said elsewhere, Marvel is happy to cite the importance of sales figures whenever they appear to favor the writer, then they perversely argue that sales figures don’t matter whenever the sales figures disfavor the writer.”
Then again, folks who don’t like the current direction were making graphs and announcing that low sales figures proved failure constantly when they were lower during BND, but are now pushing the “sales don’t matter” angle because they’re back up again. Goes both ways really. We all see what we want to see.
And to be honest, I think a lot of the reason Slott’s had the success he’s had (and yes, I like his stuff, I know a lot of posters don’t) is because his work is reliably fun to read, and more people care about that than continuity etc. As illustrated by the enjoyment of that Comic Vine reviewer above, it’s entertaining, it’s always trying to please you like a little puppy, it bounces along, it’s sometimes a little bit silly, which makes it great fun if you’re in the right mood to just pick up and go with it. (Although, conversely, maybe a tricky tone for the post-OMD Spidey fanbase who probably weren’t in the mood for a comic which basically screams “HEY ISN’T THIS SILLY FUN LET’S GO TO THE PARK!!!” at you.)
Even during the quite-grim Superior Spidey premise, Slott kept a sheen of silly OTT supervillain fun over it. It makes it very accessible to the casual fan or anyone else who just wants to be carried along and have a laugh. But due to how not-seriously it takes itself, giving itself permission to do whatever the hell it wants because it’s just fun comics and none of it really matters, this may inevitably irk readers who DO take Spider-Man more seriously.
Its success doesn’t make that POV invalid, and I’m kinda surprised Marvel haven’t produced a more conventionally down-to-earth secondary Spider-Book to sell to readers who want it, but the Hey-Kids-Fun-Spidey!!! angle is (as Slott’s recent success with critics, sales and message board posters outside the hardcore fanbase illustrates) arguably easier to sell to a wider range of people, as the only sales pitch needed is “This is enjoyable!”. Easy.
@31 This is a great description of Slott’s writing. The improved writing through imitation part is on display with the “learning to crawl” story where he’s mimicking the original comics.
Meanwhile the way characters become like charicatures of themselves is evident thoughout perhaps none more so than Jameson. Jesus, what a terrible character he’s become under slott. Regressed to a one dimensional maniac to be played purely for laughs and jokes that aren’t funny.
Peter himself is now just being characterised in order to be contrasted as much as possible from the wonderful Spock. This has only resulted in peter being portrayed as weak, naive and incompetent though… He’s the well meaning bafoon compared to the superior, effective, competent and respected Spock…. Sigh.
@#11-Er….yes they do? MC2 Peter and MJ are just older versions of 616 Peter and MJ circa the 1990s, and even the era afterwards. They’re not identical but they’re incredibly similar. They’re literally the same characters only older so they inherently have a lot in common with their 616 versions.
I’ve read DeFalco’s stuff in Spider-Man and Spider-Girl for years. He’d never have Mayday say something like that the way he did it. It was not a homage it was bad writing.
@#12-I do hope this is the last time Slott gets to write Peter and MJ as a couple because frankly I don’t want him writing Spider-Man anymore period. I’ve felt that way for many years, I just feel that way more now.
@#21-George people have said in all seriousness that Slott’s run has been the best since Roger Stern. I’m not kidding.
@#26-PREACH IT!
@#27-Here’s a solution. Because of all this multiverse crap the MC2 universe is in flux and when all is said and done these events branch off into thier own universe. Or you know what…have the Spider-God show up and resurrect Peter the same way he did in the Other or with Kaine.
@29 – Yeah I hate it when books that are very good get bad reviews because they aren’t a massively popular character. Spider-Man 2099 has been getting some of that lately and I thought it was quite unfair.
The thing about people having ‘rose colored glasses’ on Slott is that, due to the sheer amount of years he’s spent on ASM, many people have picked up the book during his run and are just accustomed to Slott’s characterizations.
I agree that sales figures are no measure of quality. Junk food sells billions of dollars every year, but it’s still junk food. The Princess Bride was a near-flop when it was first released, and look at it now — a beloved gem of a movie. Wes Anderson’s one film The Fantastic Mr. Fox is worth twenty Michael Bay movies. The Superior Foes series only made it to 17 issues, but everyone seems to agree that it is light-years better than anything Slott has ever done.
As McQ has said elsewhere, Marvel is happy to cite the importance of sales figures whenever they appear to favor the writer, then they perversely argue that sales figures don’t matter whenever the sales figures disfavor the writer.
My opinion of Slott’s work is that he is extremely imitative. His Silver Surfer is derivative of Dr. Who. The plot where the hero is impersonated by the bad guy has been done a million times. This up-coming plot where Spidey has to work his way back through multiple dimensions is a riff of The Return of Bruce Wayne. A lot of his work is imittaive in this way. That’s why his Spider-Girl characters seemed more like real people — Slott was mimicking Tom DeFalco’s writing, as part of re-creating the recognizable Spider-Girl world. Slott doesn’t write that way himself, because he’s a comedy writer.
That’s a weakness in comedy. Comedy doesn’t come up with original material. It makes fun of pre-existing characters, situations, and story conventions. Slott is a comedy satirist. Comedy writers get laughs through grotesque exaggeration. That is what Slott has done — he has grotesquely exaggerated the personalities of every ASM cast member. Every personality attribute, starting with Peter, has been ballooned out of all proportion. This is a big reason why Slott’s years on ASM don’t really amount to anything weighty. They gave their flagship character to a comedy guy.
@21 @22 @23 You also see it on pages like Reddit where new readers ask about what they should check out and people say Dan Slot’st big time and superior is one of the greatest runs ever… Spider-Island turned out to be decent but beyond that there’s mainly just been a lot of overhyped nonsense.
@29 Spot on about Slott seemingly wanting to write about anyone other than spider-man even in his own book. Is there no other marvel writer interested in this job? Is there no longer a prestige in writing spider-man?
@28
Very true, I mean most due but of course I see many reviewers give low marks to books that well written and artwork is outstanding. My best is when they say in their review: “Character(s) no one cares about.” No, the reviewer does not care about them, hence they are taken out of the story and don’t give it a fair review. I mean, if you look at this issue, Ms. Marvel is actually a fun story with Dr. Minerva but then you add in the amazing return of Clash and how Cindy can just make her costume including colors and textures just by thinking it. That makes no sense what so ever. Now, if we had a panel or a thought balloon going: “Good think Peter had extra material he had been working on.” Then it gets a pass but instead Silk is being so forced on the readers that she is the best thing since sliced bread it turns the readers majorly off.
Even worse, you have the readers who have the rose color glasses on who can say one bad thing about Dan Slott and think he is the best writer in 30 years. Forget JMS, Paul Jenkins and others who really put their heart and writing in Spider-Man and into Peter Parker. Instead, the main writer enjoys writing characters who aren’t Peter Parker or has a better handling of teenage Peter Parker that half the editorial and Marvel wants to bring back somehow. Well, they get a reboot after Secret Wars then they can go ahead and do it. I mean, DC finally got that start from scratch, undo marriages, kids and other stuff that was “holding characters back”. I do wonder if the main spouses of these people ever go: “So, you think your life is over because we are married and have kids?” Yet they write it or have this mandate to believe that.
Then people wonder why trying to pick up books again myself why I’m looking at Ms. Marvel, The Stray or Spider-Man 2099 because even with the characters new with Miguel the writer wants to take the character in a reasonable direction and actually cares about his readers and characters and not trying to have their ego tell the stories instead.
@26 – To be fair most fan reviews are giving Slott’s run pretty low grades. I just seems to be the actual professional reviews that are loving Slott.
#20…I agree, there’s plenty of options, the “lost last issue” universe where Benjy became Spidey, the Unlimited game with it’s own Spider-Verse story, also the Panini comics version of the MC2 Universe…Mayday can live on if you want her to.
I don’t put any stake in what people think of Slott’s writing. Standards in people’s tastes have fallen pretty below the mark in today’s day and age. People make Bayformers millions. The Only Way Is Essex can win a BAFTA in this dumbed-down easily pleased plane of existence
@24 ~ That review honestly comes off like it was written by someone with a passing interest in Spider-Man. I can’t find anything in this review that explains why he gave the book a top score. He barely critiqued the writing in either story and seemed more focused on gushing over Camuncoli’s art. Even when he did mention the writing he seemed more interested in talking about Ms. Marvel and Silk.
@ George Berryman – Take a look for yourself, people are eating Slott’s stuff up. http://www.comicvine.com/reviews/amazing-spider-man-8/1900-3566/
Also, great review ‘Nerd. I also noticed a minor nitpick. When they’re doing the slingshot maneuver, Kamala says that Carol pulls Spidey around four times before letting him go at the target. If you look at the past Slott issues before, you’ll see Carol explain to Kaine that she does it THREE times before letting him go. That said, Ms. Marvel has some pretty crappy fanbase if they can’t remember how many times she spins Spidey around before throwing him at something. Either that, or Slott’s best friend Plot Hole strikes again and screws over continuity.
@19-Do people actually do and/or say this? Outside of CBR, I mean?
I regret to inform that people do this outside of CBR. It’s on all the mainstream comic websites; Bleeding Cool (to a much lesser extent), Comicvine, Scan Pulse forums, you’ll see people singing the guy’s praises. He even got voted as the second best Spidey writer on Comicvine, behind Tom DeFalco I believe. And yet, somehow, I can’t figure out why we’re the only ones who dislike him…
Oh yeah, I think the back-up explains it a bit.
@18 – “Still baffles me people can love Slott’s work on Spidey and proclaim him as one of the greatest ever Spider-man writers. ”
Do people actually do and/or say this? Outside of CBR, I mean? 😯
Despicable. Simply despicable to treat May, Ben, Peter, and Mary Jane Parker as mere playthings to jerk around for Slott’s own twisted amusement, and to serve a story that need not involve them. This is perhaps even more sadistic than killing the Amazing Friends off.
As far as I’m concerned, this never happened. May and her family are all alive and well and happy in the true MC2 universe, just as they deserve to be. This gruesome turn of events can either be retconned by Tom D, or just plain ignored, and consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs.
Good review, ‘nerd. Remember when I made that joke on Amazing #6 review, about living on the Edge of Spider-Verse. That was meant to be a joke, Dan Slott. It was not meant to take as a literal action and drive the story off a cliff. I have no real problem with the first story. It wraps up the loose ends of the last issue, or most of them at the very best. It felt nice to see Clayton get some kind of nice ending, but you made a point: why devote five side-issues to making him a bad guy? Maybe a few bumps in the road, but it had some good art, and at least some character development (either good or bad, you decide). I respect your decision, but I’m giving it a B flat since Gage did a great job with Kamala
And my real offense: the back-up story with Spider-Girl. It feels like it was made by Slott’s favorite friends, Shock Value and Plot Holes, and their signatures are on every line of dialogue you read. I will give credit to Dan that he left MJ and Wes possibly alive, so that Mayday has perhaps SOMETHING to return to once the Spider-Verse crisis is over. But it’s more than likely than he’s going to say they’re all dead so that, once again, Shock Value will come back to force this down the reader’s throats. The art is decent, but as you said, that does nothing to save the story. I give it a flat F, no matter how much I love Ramos’ art.
I swear, if Spider-Verse doesn’t end on a high note, and all these memorable characters have died in vain, I’m going to send Shock Value over the same cliff the story went over, and then send Plot Hole to the Inheritors, because he belongs to Dan Slott, who writes Spider-Man, so that logic works just like Plot Hole.
Keep me informed, ‘Nerd, because I ain’t buying a Spidey comic until they do a really nice and touching story with a good arc. This is just driving me nuts. Also, sorry if this posts twice, my computer has been screwing with me.
Still baffles me people can love Slott’s work on Spidey and proclaim him as one of the greatest ever Spider-man writers. Adding rationality to most story/plot/dialogue renders it as nonsense while the dialogue is always clunky and moronic. These of course aren’t new complaints but we all know how he responds to any sort of negative critique..
Once again a great, spot on review stillanerd. Keep up the good work! Think you’ve totally spoiled the Mayday arc in this event haha.
#15, oh I agree there is’nt much story there, it’s just I figured what little character there was was close in prox to how I prefer Peter and MJ to act
I guess MC2 Kaine doesn’t count as a Spider-Totem? Maybe because his template is corrupted.
I’m not sure I agree that Mr. Slott nailed Peter and MJ. There wasn’t much story he could “nail” anything to. I just think it’s a pity that this comic’s story just served to kill Peter. Whatever Tom DeFalco is up to these days, but it feels like a huge disservice to him. It feels like the pillaging of the Spider-Girl scrapyard, which os unfair considering the depth that MC2 Peter and MJ had in that series.
Spider-Girl was a series ten times as well written as anything they are coming up with today. Why? Because it had a plot. Not just events of different magnitudes.
Stillanerd, I feel as angry as you.
@14: Absolutely. No matter what they are going to call it, it’s going to be a reboot.
Meh, he can do whatever he likes, I’m just going with the Mayday from the Spider-Man Unlimited runner game app as the real one until this whole thing blows over. For all we know, 2015 will reboot so that the incursions and Spider-Verse never happened
… remember what Slott did to Mar Jane?
… remember what Slott did to Felicia Hardy?(Though I don’t care as much as everyone else…)
And now he’s gonna write Mayday. She’s as good as screwed.
#11, While it’s true they don’t share a lot with “Peter” and “MJ” post-OMD, MC2 Peter and MJ still have the exact same history and growth of most of the pre-1999 relaunch 616 versions of the characters, they are essentially the spiritual inheritors of most of the true timeline (only without the sucky parts).
Slott is a fan of all things Spidey, and has talked positively about Spider-Girl over the years, comparing it and his She-Hulk run as underdogs in the market and how fan support was essential to keeping both afloat as long as possible, so it’s little wonder he has the right feel for it. Again, I just find it amusing he shows, during a period where he is coming under critical scrutiny, he shows he CAN write Peter and MJ “on point” and more importantly, very well as a married couple, and I just hope this is not the he last time he gets an oppertunity at it
@10 To me, it reads like Slott sat down with a load of Spider-Girl comics before he wrote this story and just tried to match the characterisation of Pete/MJ, more or less successfully. After all, those versions of the characters don’t have much in common with the current 616 ones so it doesn’t reflect back much.
Hell – even Mayday’s somewhat overwrought vow at the end reminds me of Tom DeFalco’s also-sometimes-quite-overwrought Spider-Girl dialogue. Making a lengthy vow about her intentions out-loud does sound like something DeFalco Spider-Girl would do (usually under less depressing circumstances, obviously). I kinda read it as a homage, or at least an attempt to match styles.
The ‘nerd raises a good point…why must it take a bunch of alternate reality versions for Slott to “nail” the characters of Peter and MJ? I just find it strange Slott would undermine his own 616 handle on the characters like that, almost as if he does’nt even beleive who he’s writing is the “real” Peter and MJ. I like to think this is going to lead to something next year.
@#8 I’m worried that they’ll kill off Kaine after having had two failed books. We still wouldn’t see that Mexico story that’s been building!
I’m just straight up mad at this story. Again, the deaths of these particularly beloved iterations of Spider-Man re gratuitous, meant to show how evil the Inheritors are, but, like I said in Andrew’s comments, this is just not the way these characters were meant to go out! Much like the beginning of his run when Slott seemingly killed off Roderick Kingsley, I am trying to keep myself from thinking, “What gives him the right?” Well, what gives him the right to kill off a Stern, or DeFalco, or any creator’s character is that he is the Spider-Writer now, but I don’t have to like it. Maybe DeFalco and Frenz will salvage something from this when they do their Mayday story in January.
@6 There’s an alternate-universe Spider-Ben in the Scarlet Spiders mini-series, if that’s what you’re after. (Although the solicits make it sound a lot like he’ll be dead by the end.)
Is it not obvious that Dan Slott is a cancer to the Spider-man brand or at the very least Peter Parker’s? We really need a new writer for Spider-man.
Im serious about spider ben. Is nothing sacred anymore? Bad enough i come back to comics after 15 years to find NORMAN OSBORN alive and peter MAGICALLY (keyword there) single, but now i have to see gwen walking and talking….lets just blow up THAT pedistal.
It does seems like they’re deflating the excitment I had for spider verse. 10 issues, and really not much happened. The superior spider man issues are the only essential reading. And maybe 2099 spidey.
Heck, surprised there hasnt been a Spider-Ben who got bit instead of pete and blah blah blah new ongoing Spider Ben series. Spider Gwen…phhhffwah. Edge o spidey verse 5 was by far the best issue followed by 4.
Dan Slott’s work lacks subtlety? That’s unpossible!
I know I’m using the same comment that I said in Andrew’s review, but I don’t care!
Obscenities Intensifies.
@#1 Francisco — Well, Spidey did poison Morlun with radiation beforehand, but still, you make a very valid point, Francisco. I’d also be willing to give a pass to the second time Peter killed Morlun since he was possessed by The Other at the time, so an argument could be made that it wasn’t really him.
As a nitpick, I’d point out Spidey didn’t really kill Morlun the first time, though he got close. His servant, Dex, shot and killed him after Spider-Man had beaten the crap out of him.