Witness another final battle resulting in the death of a hero, the death of a villain, and an ultimate test of patience in this, my final review.
DYING WISH: Suicide Run
Written by Dan Slott
Illustrated by Humberto Ramos
Inked by Victor Olazaba
Colored by Edgar Delgado
Lettered by VC’s Chris Eliopoulos
“Spider-Dreams”
Written by J.M. DeMatties
Illustrated by Giuseppe Cammuncoli
Inked by Sal Buscema
Colored by Antonio Fabela
“Date Night-A Black Cat Adventure!”
Written by Jan Van Meter
Illustrated by Stephanie Buscema
Covers by Steve Ditko, Joe Quesada, Marcos Martin, Olivier Coipel, J. Scott Campbell and Edgar Delgado
Edited by Stephan Wacker and Ellie Pyle
Spider-Man created by Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, John Romita Sr. and countless others.
THE PLOT: With Doctor Octopus posing as Peter Parker, the real Spider-Man who’s trapped in Ock’s dying husk makes several final plays to stop the mad scientist once and for all…
LONG STORY SHORT:…but it doesn’t pan out. In his last moment, Peter floods Ock’s brain with as many memories of his past adventures as he can to instill in him the lesson to use his great powers responsibly, to which Ock appreciably accepts. With the real Spider-Man now dead, Doctor Octopus proclaims to be the best Spider-Man he can be…THE SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN!
Oh, and some other stories happened.
MY THOUGHTS: The curse of serial fictional characters is that they must always remain fore-ordained to return at a starting point of an established status quo, securing their recognizable marketability. Should they become successful, however they first appeared freezes them to live out adventures removed from reality in that at some point, things have to go back to the way they were on the onset. This is the basic rule for most any successful media and literature franchises, myths and legends. (Unless their finite or one-shot stories, but then that wouldn’t apply towards franchises.)
Comic Books have it the hardest in that they exist as ongoing legends, yet are eventually by their stewards re-made and renewed again and again to keep their values as stories worth telling intact by appealing to each successive generation. Whether their values rise or fall with each new decade is a discussion for another day, but it does as a by-product force the characters to be tried and tested by new stories and adventures, changing virtually everything but the name and presenting different variations of the idea of the characters with new social mores, norms, technology, politics and fashions. Superhero comics being the most recognizable genre of the medium make the most radical changes, stretching the characters and stories like rubber bands, snapping or holding under the pull of fan response. It’s all relative to the individual character how well changes will go down in the end. Fleming wrote that Bond will most often go beyond the probable, but never beyond the possible. When speaking about a particular comic book character, the same applies towards his or her own unique circumstances based on their status quo.
A thought occurs to me however. If changes are to keep long-running characters fresh and relevant yet still within range enough to return to their familiar settings, is it really, then, change?
Take Spider-Man for instance. He is the embodiment of variation and metamorphosis in the Marvel Universe. Despite the constant struggle to bring the character back to a realm of comfortable familiarity, The Amazing Spider-Man was the title where status quos come to die. To list a few:
Graduates high school (#28)
Breaks up with his love interest (#30)
Has his fiancée murdered along with his arch enemy (#122/#122)
Loses his best friend to insanity (#137)
Graduated college (#185)
Worked for another Newspaper (#194)
Changed his costume (#252)
Gotten married (Annual #21)
Believed he was a clone (Spectacular Spider-Man #226)
Lost his unborn child (Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75)
Revealed his identity to the world (#533)
Lost his wife (#545)
These are all instances in which Spider-Man has excised the window dressing of the Lee, Ditko/Romita run and deal with the results of said changes, only for him to return to default framework with little resonating difference. In my opinion, what lends credence to the “relatability” aspect of Spider-Man is how the character adapts to change and accepts change.
However, this becomes problematic when the change is made so stark, so irrevocable that any sort of recrudescence breaks the verisimilitude of the story and wrecks the readers’ suspensions of disbelief. Of course being a superhero story, certain things like robot parents, cloning and deals with the devil won’t shake the foundations of a book titled “Spider-Man” in and of themselves. Still, when the character is publicized as being a recognizable and relatable hero in certain aspects, such intrusions to the ongoing narrative damage not only the status quo, but the rules for the future.
The problem started with the return of Aunt May. She was killed off ceremoniously in Amazing Spider-Man #400 and returned less than five years later with nothing that was gained from her death (her blessing of Peter’s life as Spider-Man) remaining. Initially her return brought nothing of value. In spite of J. Michael Straczynski’s efforts to embolden the character with her knowledge of Peter’s double life, she was once again regressed to an ignorant, oblivious relic of an era where Spider-Man had not evolved to the character he is today. Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson have developed considerably over time, but the person closest to Spider-Man’s heart after MJ is for some reason destined to remain a reminder of the days when ASM was first published during the Cold War.
Aunt May’s return had far more dour consequences for the future of Spider-Man, for it proved that TPTB at Marvel Comics would stop at nothing to regain a fragment of the old days, despite the characters going through a maturation which required something more than a dottering old mother figure. The most famous example is One More Day, but I would put the unmasking and it’s retcon as a more egregious example. During the months when the whole world knew who Spider-Man was, we saw a variety of reactions from his friends and co-workers who were naturally developed through the revelation. Betty Brant and Flash Thompson proved themselves to be Peter’s truest friends, while ex-girlfriend Deb Whitman wrote a tell-all book about how Peter ruined her life, and J. Jonah Jameson sued Peter out of bitter spite. The final issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man showed the confrontation that the character’s existence had been begging for between an unmasked Spider-Man and Jonah Jameson alone in a warehouse. Things were said, punches were thrown, and the conflict brought up ended unresolved. In a series like Spider-Man seemingly maintained by development, this only whets readers’ appetites for more.
Then One More Day happened and everybody forgot all about Peter’s secret.
It’s a stark way to put it even if no one for a minute believed that Peter’s identity would remain revealed, and it gets me to Amazing Spider-Man #700. The story has been precipitated by the oncoming death of Doctor Octopus, randomly established in Amazing Spider-Man #600 and repeated throughout Slott’s run which began in #648. It reiterates the threat of the impossible, that one of Spider-Man’s most silliest, notable and dangerous enemies will die forever. Two simple reasons kill any suspense: 1) We’ve already seen Doctor Octopus die twice in the official canon, only to be revived by mystical ninjas or other retroactive continuity. 2) to quote the man of the year “You all read comics. You all KNOW how this works. :)”
So issue #698 comes and we see both Doc Ock and Dan Slott pull off the impossible, present a engaging dilemma for Spider-Man with an extremely well told issue. Unfortunately this falls into what I call the “binary problem” with storytelling. Either something happens or something doesn’t. Two opposite scenarios are easy to imagine, leaving the story dead of impact or intrigue. There’s a way to tell such a story and make it interesting. A narrative mystery can present a conundrum with an easy solution, but without the “why” of the answer readily deducible. Someone can figure out that the killer is the butler, but a good narrative mystery makes you want to learn why along the way.
So with #699 the question of how Doctor Octopus switched bodies with Spider-Man was immediately answered, leaving only the outcome of Peter either regaining his body or not. If he doesn’t Ock wins and the book ends with Peter’s death. If he does, tune in to #701 for more adventures of the Amazing Spider-Man! In any case, the binary problem of the two outcomes is that the story either continues with the hope that the reader was entertained, or it ends with the same hope.
With Spider-Man however, a simple flat ending doesn’t do him justice. The book has been about Peter Parker and the development of his life and character. As illustrated above, we’ve experienced with Peter life-change after heartbreak after milestone after adventure and have witnessed the development and evolution of the person as a concept. Sure, every story he’s had ran the risk of his untimely death, but it was with the knowledge that the readers were in it for the illustrious experiences in watching Peter go through his paces, knowing there would be more to come. With the year 2012 being the 50th of Spider-Man’s existence and the 10th anniversary of his big-screen debut celebrated with a fourth movie, ending the series wasn’t a bad idea at all. Even killing off the character doesn’t hurt the legacy in the long run, as long as it’s done with dignity (More on that later). So #700 was written with months in advance and several celebratory events to surround itself with. The way in which the book should end however must earn its ending and earn the character’s death. The development of his life should grant him an end that reflects the changes and honors the tradition of change. In actuality, one can say that Dan Slott has achieved just that with his run. Peter became a successful scientist, became a full-fledged Avenger, saw his Aunt be taken care of financially and romantically, earned respect from Jonah Jameson in the end, earned a spot on the Fantastic Four and even reformed one of his most hated enemies in Doctor Octopus. Slott, intentionally or not, did manage to wrap up the story of Spider-Man in a manner that could decisively conclude the character’s story.
So why doesn’t this work for me?
Alright, enough babbling. What did I think of this issue?
In a nutshell, it did a job. Slott was clearly at his most eager in writing this story, tying up certain loose ends with such speed that you almost wish Stephen Wacker pat him on the back and told him to calm down. There are the various Slott-isms of his his apparent here. Exposition out the wazoo, gratuitous continuity references, blithe character moments that are saccharine and poorly paced. Ramos too is working like a man so happy to get to this issue that he breaks from the master’s leash. His faces are all over the place, as is his anatomy. I’ll never say the man is bad, but he’s not doing any favors to his mixed reputation in this one, sadly. (His Carlie Cooper’s fairly sexy though. Maybe it’s the gun.)
To match the energy, here are a number of thoughts that went through my head that ultimately don’t enhance my main beef with the issue.
*deep breath*
Why is Silver Sable in Peter’s heaven when he was told she’s still alive?
Why did his clothes change in the dream?
Does Peter seriously think Ben would kick him out for letting him die?
So Doc Ock gets goaded on by J. Jonah Jameson, really?
Why doesn’t Carlie believe Ock when he says he answers her questions about Spider-Man?
Sanjani looks like a ten year old.
It’s spelled “dawdling”.
Robbie and Urich look ten years younger.
No Betty Brant in the “Loved Ones” group.
The Avengers security system recognizes Spider-Man as soon as “he” says it will.
Gargan thinks Aunt May is “lovely”.
OUCH!
What’s Ock’s end goal here after he beats Spidey?
Those are really it. It was an entertaining issue for the most part, and were this anything other than the 700th and the final I’d roll over some problems. However there are some central ones that cause me to pause.
Mary Jane is particularly vexing in this for one thing. Props to Slott for confronting the comic on her role in a manner I couldn’t top if I tried. Despite this, it doesn’t solve the problem of Mary Jane’s role in the book as a whole. If you remember when I complained about her sporadic scenes in the title giving Peter speeches of love and encouragement, I wanted her to be doing other things in order to flesh her out. Slott knows that Mary Jane is more than meets the eye, but only went so far as to have her be a voice in the back of Peter’s head during situations which did not warrant it. Most, if not all of her scenes had her either interacting with Peter or thinking about Peter. Has Slott not heard of the Bechdel Test? In any case, it did the character a disservice. The common complaint against the marriage was that Mary Jane was either too lovey dovey over Peter or she constantly complained about his double life. Here, Slott uses their separation as a vehicle for us to pine for shipping moments between the two of them. Because of this, Mary Jane’ ends up fairly two dimensional. So when Ock calls her on that lack of depth, she further demonstrates it by re-confessing her love. A nice gesture for Peter and MJ fans, or it would be if it were actually Peter, but the damage is two-fold. Mary Jane goes through her feelings in quick word balloons over the span of a single page. After everything they went through in OMIT, a single page isn’t going to cut it. It also robs Peter of embracing his true love, which leads into the second big sin of the main story.
Although Slott has had Peter attain professional success both in and out the costume, much of the achievements have been undermined in a continuous devaluing of Spider-Man’s basic effectiveness as a crime-fighter, and Peter Parker as a person. It’s my most common complaint with the Post-OMD era, one that I feel is as absolute as it’s annoying. Throughout the run, cries of “It’s all my fault” and random moments of straight disrespect from Aunt May to Mr. Fantastic keep Spider-Man lower than he ever was before Brand New Day. His loss of Spider-Sense left him virtually helpless in situations he’s experienced before, and while Slott had him overcome certain scenarios like the penultimate climax of Ends of the Earth, there was a pervading sense that Spider-Man had somehow become the green hero of 1963 again. His emotional state in some stories contributed, and even when he tried to take things seriously like the Lizard or Morbius, such a big deal was made of of his lack of lightheartedness that it was as though the character has newly appeared.
Consider the ending. Peter continuously tries to get back into his own body, only to be outdone by Doc Ock. At one point he attempts to break his no-killing rule by throwing himself and Ock out of a window, but he’s still foiled in an instance intended to show off Ock’s ingenuity while in Peter’s body, yet reminds me of a Steve Ditko back-up page where Spider-Man was shown to do the same thing. Peter dies, but not before instilling upon Ock the scenes of everyone’s favorite Spider-Man stories, and saying the magic words “power” and responsibility”.
If this sounds overly pithy, think of what we’re left to go on with the ending. Peter Parker, after several failed attempt to regain his life (usurped by one of his oldest foes carrying on without a hint of suspicion from his friends and family) dies in a broken husk of his enemies’ body, through a series of health dips brought on by years of his own intervention and action. With Peter gone, his enemy is free to enjoy the love of Mary Jane, the adoration of Jonah Jameson, and the ambition and vow to be an even better Spider-Man.
This is the most undignified way for a character to go out that I have ever seen.
It furthers my feelings that, for a creator who’s love of Spider-Man splashes all over interviews and many of his scripts, Dan Slott doesn’t think very highly of him. Neither, for that matter do Wacker, Pyle or Alonso. At least when Captain America died, people mourned his death in a miniseries and it cast a shadow over the Marvel Universe. Peter Parker, comics’ favorite superhero underdog, dies under the guise of a villain in a frail body without anyone learning about it.
I’m going to say right now that on the face of it, I really like the idea. That a hero dies giving his blessing for one of his villains to carry on in his name is every bit intriguing as it is ingenious. Even for Spider-Man it’s an apt way for the story to end, but-not-entirely for Amazing Fantasy #15’s theme was to make good on past mistakes. The simple reason this fails is in the execution. The main story of the issue isn’t Slott’s worst but it’s incredibly distracting when considering the conclusion and what the issue means to the character. The lead-up to Ock casting aside any evil intentions and becoming a hero begins and ends in about three pages of a 50 page story. If the issue were about Ock reacting to the reception of Peter’s supporting cast in Peter’s body and it coalescing to the end where he asks Peter how to carry on in his life, then that would be the ultimate end to both Peter and Otto’s story. Peter has to force-feed Ock his memories, so that Ock’s sudden change to the good side isn’t out of nowhere. In the long run however this is a let down because the ending was preceded by flash and style but no substance. It comes down to a long chase scene, ending with three pages of Ock reliving a collage of everyone’s favorite Ditko and Romita era issues, mixed in with unnecessary panels of the supporting cast spouting off irrelevant dialogue. The three part story should have been divided by Ock’s gradual understanding of the role while Peter either observed or made peace with his life. After all, he does die. Dignity must be granted to the title’s main protagonist, it can’t be shunted off to the new one at the end of a 50 page comic in three pages. To grasp the horrific ineptitude of Spider-Man’s treatment in this story ( during his 50th year no less), go to issue#699 page 14 and see Peter begging God not to let him die in such a state. Looks like God, or Slott, didn’t have any better ideas.
“But Don!” you say. “Nobody in comics stays dead for long! Everyone knows Peter will be back. Why take it seriously?”
And that, my friends, is exactly the point.
As I said earlier, if changes are to keep long-running characters fresh and relevant yet still within range enough to return to their familiar settings, can it truly be change?
The answer is no.
Ending The Amazing Spider-Man title is a strong move, but in a way it’s been done before when the book was re-numbered during the Byrne reboot. Ending the title with the character’s death and replacement is also a strong move, but not as strong since both have happened before too. Peter’s “died” in a number of forgettable, undignified ways before being revived by the end of the story. Remember the Other in 2005? Clone Saga? Ben Reilly? The events in this story are not original, even if Slott carries them out in different ways. Even Doctor Octopus has learned of Spider-Man’s identity twice before. It circles around the fact that the true nature of Spider-Man and, in essence, comic books, is to change from and back to. Nothing ends, ever. Thus the narrative of Spider-Man is one of unending misery for the character, for he’ll have such a horrible event occur in his lifetime, even though years from now he’ll be laughing about it in some naked appeal for continuity gags by some eager comic fan-turned-author. This is the true reason of defeat for the character; the snapping of the rubber band. Most everything else dynamic that occurred in Peter’s life happened as a part of his life, in situations where he, like us, could move on and get past things. No one can believably get past or experience this. I cannot get past this story, which is why this will be my last comic book review for the time being. Beyond this point the concept of Spider-Man can never again be considered “relatable” or “believable” by honest standards. It would be disingenuous to assert otherwise, and yet the series already has. This issue reiterates the kitsch nature of the genre, and to take it seriously would be like trying to deconstruct camp.
Many thanks to everyone who read and responded to my ramblings over the past 18 months. You’ve truly added to the experience and made me feel appreciated and welcome. Who knows what will happen between now and the next milestone of Spider-Man? My guess at is that the more it changes, the more it will stay the same.
2/5 webs 
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The art in ASM #700 was friggin’ great considering it was Ramos (I’m not a fan)… he’s really improved his style.
🙂
Hey, uh, author guy. The clothes changed in Peter’s dream to match the person he was talking to. Modern-ish clothes for the Rhino and his wife. Old-ish clothes for Gwen and her dad. Horizon clothes for his parents because they were scientists. And the Spidey duds for good Uncle Ben. It actually was a nice touch.
At #36 I’m quite over it now and actually have been giggling to myself today at the thought of the tidal wave of backlash heading towards slotts or excuse me your sons way he won’t dare show face at any comic convention for awhile and I find that very refreshing
Want to DO SOMETHING about it?
Then DON’T BUY Superior Spider-man! Sales quotas are all these people understand. Let them feel your outrage by staying away. It’s NOT that they hate Peter Parker, it’s just that they’ve milked the cash cow too damn many times now. Face it, Marvel’s profited pretty nicely off of this 1962 throw-away character. They just don’t know when to stop. It is a big middle finger to the reader, but they just don’t care.
The real question is this:
When they have no choice but to “J.R. Ewing” this story arc due to the backlash and being in over their heads, do you guys come running back and “forgive and forget” which will be the writer’s intention when it’s erased? When is enough, enough?
All nay-sayers can choke on a load of web fluid. As the biggest Spidey fan there is I felt this issue was truly AMAZING and very well written and Ramos’ art shines through in this ish more than it ever has before.
Spidey fans are the whiniest lot of fans I have ever encountered. Marvel doesn’t make it hard to be a Spidey fan, OTHER SPIDEY FANS DO. Most of you all are never satisfied with anything and only prefer things that directly reflect the Lee-Ditko-Romita era. The only reasons why the comics have had the knack of reverting back to that using elements of that old formula is becuase fans are always whining about how that’s all they want, so Marvel listens and tries to give you all what you want. We can’t get a permanent change in the comics because fans whine too damn much when we actually do get change. Like now
I felt this issue was remarkable becuase other than Green Goblin, Doc Ock is Spidey’s greatest villain. Whenever they went toe to toe it was more than just a physical battle, it was also a battle of the minds, and this story highlighted that better than most previous Spidey V.S Doc Ock stories. The idea that they body-swapped and had access to all of each others memories and secrets was intriguing and it was interesting to see them trying to outsmart the other and see what it was like to be in the others’ shoes (or in this case boots and tentacles).
It was incredible to see both of them pull out all the stops to defeat the other in a battle to the death and even more interesting that it was Peter who died and Ock who won. However on the flip side maybe it was a tie, yes perhaps Peter is dead (for the time being) and OCk now has access to everything that once belonged to Peter BUT supposedly Ock now realizes that with great power there must come great responsibility and has vowed to live up to Parker’s legacy and become the SUPERIOR Spider-Man. The very interesting question is: Can he really do it?
We all know full well the mindset of Otto Octavius as opposed to Peter Parker’s so it will be interesting to see Otto, with his background and his personality, try to adapt to the life Peter Parker has built over all these years, and to see if he truly can continue fooling everyone and if he can honestly fulfill Peter’s dying wish.
It had a well executed emotional ending and even though we all suspect Peter to one day return how do we know it will be within a year and not a very long-lasting death? How do we even know for sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that Marvel is actually serious and they intend to keep him dead?
And a lot of fans need to get over themselves whining about how Marvel has ruined Parker, that they don’t care about him, that they are screwing everything up, blah blahbiddy blah. Calm yo web shooters!
Clearly Marvel has more love and affection for the character than fans give them credit for. This is made apparent by all the amazing things they did to celebrate his 5oth anniversary this year. Marvel knows what they are doing. If any character should be honestly complained about it’s Iron Man. I mean I love the guy and RDJ is a great actor but come on, just cause he’s gotten popular with so-called “fans” after seeing him in movies doesn’t mean he needs to be front and center of all marketing material related to Marvel comics and especially The Avengers ( The main poster for the film is complete bull. As the leader Captain America should be front and center of the group..NOT Iron Man, who conveniently is the only masked hero who is UN-masked and has their face showing clearly)…
Anyways..
Knowing Slott and the rest of the fine folks at Marvel they have something mighty interesting cooking up with SUPERIOR and I’m in full support. I’d rather stick through it and see what happens instead of pitching a fit and jumping ship like most people.
Some folks just can’t handle change.
I’m gonna call it… that golden octobot is carrying his mind and is still around somewhere. It would be very similar to how they brought back Ock shortly after Kaine offed him the first time, his mind in a computer. Seems like the kind of throwback Slott would use, only with the roles reversed.
I agree in the opinion that the main problem with this issue is the inglorious end of Peter Parker, this is a character that all of us have been suffering with through tragedy after tragedy, who have put everything in the line, and now at the end of it all he dies alone and widely unnoticed, it’s just the saddest tragedy I could ever think off, and as a fan it pains me, I’ve seen this character lose loved ones, lose his self-confidence, his mind, sleep on the street, rejected by his closest friends without a coherent reason, lose his daughter and his soul mate.
I respect every writer because to handle a character so iconic, with so little space to move the plots without causing a serious and unredeemable impact on the mythos must be extremely exhausting, and in the end you have to keep the history going and attractive. This is why I will not tear my robes while crying out laud “heresy!” but I can’t help but think that it was too harsh and unfair to end Peter Parker this way, this character have always been the one closest to the fandom because of many factors and that’s why it fees so personal and so horribly sad.
Sure, everything can be reversed but not forgotten, I as well as I guess everyone hope this all is worth it and that the reason for this turn of events be something really planned and not just a Shock Value Gimmick which will always be ill remembered as unjustified
For the moment I just have to say that Dan Slott have the benefit of doubt from me. Excellent review and the best of wishes for Donovan, Thanks for everything
How does Peter return? Do the Avengers go back in time and bring a younger Spidey to the future? Is Peters subconsious still trapped in one of Ocks bots and builds a robot body that looks like something HERBIE crapped out? Clone Saga 2? Peter wakes up and this was all a horrible dream? Peter makes a deal with the Devil?
39: Does anyone believe we’ve seen the “last” issue of Amazing Spider-Man? No one will ever embrace Doc Octopus as a hero. We don’t view this development as “Superior”. Of course order will be restored. Slott’s in the middle of an arc here, not at the beginning or end of one. He’ll tell us that Peter overcame his greatest adversity. Perhaps Peter will adapt some of Doc Ock’s new tech. It’s only a matter of time, and of our tolerance for crap during that time.
Anyhow, in Kevin Smith we trust:
http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/12/26/kevin-smith-says-peter-parker-will-be-spider-man-again-within-a-year/
Did anybody notice the Silent Bob cameo on page 6?
@36
The instigation to “get over it” works both ways. Some people didn’t like the issue, so you can… guess what? Get over it yourself.
36: Mrs. Slott, nice of you to check in and defend your son.
@33 No. His mention of being “the biggest Spider-Man fan” is a quip we all say. Get over it. You may not like the outcome of the story, but it is a well crafted narrative. Get over it.
Nice mention of all the previous 100s
“that any sort of recrudescence breaks the verisimilitude”
That would sound painful, if I had any idea what it meant.
Slott has left himself open for these attacks and criticism with the way he has treated the fans through the press and the message boards saying he is verbatim “the biggest spider-man fan” and practically pissing on the character of Peter Parker. Slott deserves every attack on his skill as a story teller and his experience as a writer.
@31 the personal attack on Slott says much more about you than Slott. Is this what this forum is all about?
Thank You for the great review, Don. Your thoughts echo my overall feeling of banality wrapped in shiny paper & injustice done to the main character & in no less what was supposed to be a milestone issue.
Your paragraph on Mary Jane & her vacuous portrayal by Slott during his run is a bullseye.
This is not a dig at the man, but, Do any of you Crawlspacers have the impression that Dan Slott has has never ever been anywhere near a long-term relationship? Him writing dating scenarios seem serviceable enough, but whenever he writes the Pete/MJ dynamic, it rings hollow. It screams inexperience in that department and shows a serious lack of verisimilitude in any way, shape or form.
Dan Slott’s near legendary run on She-Hulk aside, I’ve come to the conclusion that he should only be allowed to write the wallcrawler’s stories in short controlled bursts ala his Spidey/Torch mini.
Until there is a complete regime change that ousts:
Quesada (who lives only to promote himself & save his job)
Breevort (he’s long tenure at Marvel has become more of a hindrance than a an asset)
Bendis (turned the company’s flagship character into a one-note Ronald McDonald)
& Wacker (who clearly has no editorial control over the dross his writers churn out)
I’m done with Marvel. The last 5 years have shown nothing but Spider-Man being used as cannon fodder for those guys & becoming prison ass for them.
@#28: I think my big problem with this story was that it wasn’t gut wrenching at all. It was slightly disturbing, but didn’t bring any of the emotions that Spidey’s death in Ultimate brought out. It just left me disappointed, and the promise of wait until you read Superior #1 just makes me think that it’s all just a stunt to get more readers.
I loved Big Time. I really enjoyed Spider Island as well. If a comic is fun I can suspend disbelief and ignore the problems with the story. If you’re going for an emotional reaction, it needs to be well written, and I don’t think that’s Slott’s strength.
Nothing is permanent, another writer will come along and he will want to bring back Peter. I hope they do a better job bringing him back than they did sending him off.
I think the obvious answer, “big fan,” is that not all character deaths are the same. I’d be much more interested in hearing some direct responses to the arguments that have been put forth about why THIS death is not acceptable than just blindly accusing people of being hypocrites for things they never even said.
@#28:That you, Steve Wacker?
So, Brubaker is a genius – killed off Cap, brings him back, after he spends time in a dream-state. Hickman is a genius – killed off Storm, brings him back from the Negative Zone. Yea, uh huh. Now, Slott gets grief for crafting a hell of a yarn? One in which the hero dies in a whimper? Oh, my – Slott breaks away from traditional heroic bunk, delivers a gut-wrenching narrative, but get only grief. Funny, the hipsters will call certain writer and artists awesome and disregard others. The sheep simply follow the herd … or, the rats follow the piper. For years I heard how great John Byrne was – the dude wrote bunk in my opinion. Frank Miller is another – while guys like Mantlo, Conway, and Stern are disregarded. Byrne draws every face the same any bodies lacking any visual appeal, but he’s awesome. Guys like Andru disregarded. Slott is the best writer in the business. And, this ASM arc is fabulous. Onward! Excelsior!
I just read the book a few hours ago… still trying to absorb it… but I know that I liked it… and I’m kind of excited to move forward.
🙂
@ 24 NO. Did you read the review? It is spot on! Even if this “will not stick,” it has STUCK a big finger right up the kazoo! Seriously? Slott has a sick mind – and, yes, a sick mind can create great stories, but in this case …. all we have is sick.
@#24: Sorry, no.
Marvel essentially threw a handful of poo in readers’ faces with the end of 700 and the not-so-subtle trolling of Peter/MJ marriage fans.
Why on earth would anybody actually want more? Marvel is going to face an uphill battle selling this.
Come on give superior a chance this will not stick so don’t everyone go and get your panties in a bunch when. Also if you read it that means you bought it so you are supporting Marvel as well. So give it a chance and just think of the journey of the return of peter parker that we will get in about six months.
22: “Gets the girl” in the sense of the Michele Gonzales rape scenario being played out all over again. This story is nauseating. Yet Newsarama gave this piece of garbage 10 out of 10. The Emperor Has No Clothes, indeed.
Good Lord…….I really don’t know what to say….Otto is a sociopath…now he gets the girl, the life of a good man…..and essentially a reward for being a murderer….is there any other way to look at this? Permanent or not…this series is broken. Sad to say that after 35 years of reading… I might be done…very dark day:) …exceptional review however. 🙂
I for one am very excited for the Superior Spider-Man. I think that (what you’ve said these last few issues should have been) the gradual realization by Ock of what it means to be Spider-Man and the acclimation of the villains and supporting cast has A LOT of potential for some interesting and exciting stories. Seeing him in Pete’s body and how he’ll deal with his villains should be fun.
That being said…. this wasn’t a very good send off for Peter. He definitly got sh*t on a lot in this issue and for both an anniversary issue and a finale this definitly wasn’t the best they could have done. I, like many people, don’t think this is permanent. He’ll be back. Your analysis of Spider-Man and the cyclical nature of comic book storytelling is spot on. In the past, big changes definitly have occurred, but since “Avengers Disassembled”, Marvel seems completely unable to stick to any major hero deaths. The Scott Lang Ant-Man, Wasp, Thor, and Captain America have all died and come back in a matter of years. (Granted, Thor and Rogers were probably never intentioned to be gone for good… but is Peter?) This title has been particularly bad, as we’ve seen Harry, Kraven, and Quentin Beck all return for no apparent reason long term. I just don’t buy this, and that robs the story of some of its emotional weight.
This is an excellent summary of my feelings on the issue. The idea itself is pretty good, but it was poorly handled and not appropriate for the 50th anniversary/ 700th issue. I really enjoyed Peter finally having a successful scientific career, being a member of the Avengers and some of the other changes that have been made recently, but I felt like issue 700 should have ended with the wah wah wah soundbite.
Don, that was a very well thought out review and I loved the bit where you referenced Ian Fleming, whose own creation is celebrating 50 years as a cinema icon. How would you rank this against the character’s demise in Ultimate? Do you feel that universe has a better possibility for permanent change? I stronlgy feel that Spidey is about change and growth and that theme seems to have lapsed due to the direction Marvel wants to take the character in, or wanted to, where the cast would have character development more than Peter. For me, the Mephisto deal was where Peter stopped being relatable. I think an actual divorce would have been far more in keeping with the themes Stan Lee had set than a magic retcon. Granted, I wouldn’t want that, but it would’ve been preferable to what we got, the lesser of two evils, if you will. I particularly liked in your review the past images from centennial issues. Your review was well thought out and an excellent way for you to end you time in the role. If only the same could be said for the protagonist you wrote about.
“Two: whilst I agree that a book with that many credited editors should go to print without spelling mistakes, pointing them out when the review itself has spelling mistakes brings to mind an old proverb about glass houses!”
Actually, you just blew your own argument. This is a major publication that has a series of checks and balances to make sure there is no sort of mistakes before it goes to print. Where it can’t be fixed if there is a mistake. You trying to comepare this to a review written in a blog holds no water because like you said, the comic has many editors while the writer here just has himself and he at least can correct his mistakes while the comic that is out on the market can’t. That glass house proverb really just when out the window here with that fact.
The way MJ is portrayed in this book is simotaniously great and damning at the same time in my eyes.
On one hand, she finally puts to bed all the bad character development she’s had since OMD by rising to the occasion and commiting herself again to Peter, and this time, it’s implied she will stick by him no matter how crazy it gets (meaning WHEN Peter comes back, she’ll still be there for him)
On the other hand, the fact she cannot see Ock is not the Peter she knows in many of their scenes together fills me with dread that Slott is going to make not just her, but everyone else in the Marvel Universe look stupid and prove incapable of deducing who Peter is. Aunt May was able to figure out Peter’s phony parents were fakes, and they were armed with the Parkers memories, and we remember MJ sniffing out The Chamelion and Kraven when they posed as Spidey.
I will be interested to see how Wolverine and Doc Strange act around Ock…one is a master of sniffing out things, the other is a supreme sorceror. In a way, I am expecting Slott to acknowledge this as I heard Strange will be involved in a future arc in Superior…still, you have to really stretch your sense of disbeleif to think the finest assembled in the 616 ‘verse can be hoodwinked
Not a good issue, and it creates a lot of distressing issues later down the road. Thank god I don’t consider 616 the end-all/be-all. I’ll stick to Marvel Adventures, the British comics, and the daily strip, at least in all three of them I get the Spidey status quoes I grew up with, or at the very least I can relate to.
A good review, although I disagree with a lot of it 😀
Two things spring to mind: one, forget MJ, when has any non-villain been in a scene that doesn’t feature or revolve around Peter in some way? And not just in Slott’s run. Focusing on MJ whilst ignoring that the same criticism can besides at the feet of any of Spidey’s supporting cast is little blinkered. But that’s how we’ve had our Spidey for the last decade and beyond – he’s front and centre of his own book and if he wasn’t then the outcry would be focused on that.
Two: whilst I agree that a book with that many credited editors should go to print without spelling mistakes, pointing them out when the review itself has spelling mistakes brings to mind an old proverb about glass houses!
But the era-ending events aside… You seem to have forgotten about the backup strips, and I was as interested in your thoughts on those as I was on the main story.
Even I had to admit that the story had potential. But d***. They actually did it. And to think that there are people that STILL defend it. Any potential the story had was KILLED by that ending. And if that was the best send off Dan Slott was capable, then I finally have to say it. Dan, you don’t love this character as much as you tell us you do, and I don’t think you should write him anymore.
Seriously, every time they do something like this, I feel like it isn’t a misfire in writing. I feel like it’s a blatant middle finger to all of us who have loved the character all these years, and complained whenever they pulled stunts like this. Ant to top it off, Donovan had to end his tenure by reviewing this.
I can’t be too upset. It’s just another attempt to shock people into paying attention to the book. Because god forbid you just write a good story to draw people in. But I have been detached from the book for so long, I can only sit back and laugh at how f*****’ stupid that ending is. All the buildup, and what an ending. and no matter how you try to twist it… the villain wins. A “landmark” issue of Spider-man where a villain achieves the ULTIMATE victory.
Yeah, they say it won’t be permanent, but didn’t they say the same thing about One More Day five years ago? What a hot mess.
Wow, what a review. I never thought I’d see a sentence like the following in a comic book review: “so irrevocable that any sort of recrudescence breaks the verisimilitude of the story…”
🙂
Great review of the character Don. I haven’t read 700 yet but damn I’m going to miss your ASM reviews. He’ll still be on the podcast gang.
My sole consolation is that, despite Slott’s, et al’s hubris, this combination of insult and overreach is almost gauranteed to blow up in their faces.
Dan Slott’s attempt to convince readers that they should accept Otto Octavius as Spider-Man is an Orwellian effort only the Inner Party could love: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Spider-Man is Doctor Octopus. Evil is Good. Deceit is Honesty.
I’m not going to complain about the ending, all I’ll say is this.
Holy shit, Donovan. That was a splendid look at this issue, the character, and the medium, and in a meta sense, shows how to give a proper send off better than the issue itself apparently did.
Godspeed, bro.
My hat is off to you, Don. Your take on this issue and the back and forth of change in Peter’s life hits the nail so squarely I’m in awe. I really enjoyed reading this and it gave me a lot more to think about when it comes to 700 — and damn, I thought my head already hurt.
I’m really sorry to hear that you’re quitting, but I understand your reasons perfectly. I considered the same thing myself and came to the opposite conclusion but feel like it could have gone either way. Definitely not an easy decision to make. But man, I really hope you’re going to stick around on the podcast at least.
Does your “final review” comment mean you won’t be reviewing The Superior Spider-man, Donovan?
Are we being punked? This might be the most idiotic thing I’ve ever read. With the exception of back issues, I’m officially done with Spider-Man titles. Why does Marvel hate Peter Parker? They killed him in the Ultimate universe and now they killed him here. Marvel says, “We need a younger, hipper, unattached Spider-Man” so they give us “the un-hip old man Octopus be the new young and hip Spider-Man”. They also get him back together with Mary Jane which makes him no longer un-attached (I actually don’t mind that though). This is crazy. I can’t believe they ended the flagship title of Marvel comics with this stupid story, followed up by nonsensical back-up stories that were less than forgettable. Marvel lost a reader today.
… Oh good God what have they done?
~Lament~
Is the new Status Quo kinda cool? Yes. I’ll probably go back in trade paperbacks and read the rest of the story when it’s over. But this is something that I seriously didn’t want to see.
The issue was okay. I hated 698 because it was all “OMG READ IT AGAIN IT’S SO DIFFERENT” And I’m just here like “BUT THAT’S PETER! HE’S TRAPPED IN THAT DAMNED BODY!”
And now he’s dead. Marvel makes it freaking impossible to be a Spider-Man fan.
Ultimate is ten times better than this, however.
I think Marvel treats Spider-Man like it’s a second rate character. Look at the artistic team. Oh wait, THERE ISN’T ONE. IT’S NEVER CONSISTENT. Marvel doesn’t treat its flagship character with enough respect.
Long live the JMS Spider-Man. His Spider-Man was the best written… ever.
Octavius’ repentance is horrible writing. Slott bragged that he’s been setting this up for years, but he never once, not once, showed Otto feeling remorse or questioning whether he could have lived a better life if things had been different. This is the worst form of fiction-writing, just pulling a ridiculous rabbit out of a narrative hat. It was only a few issues ago that Otto was trying to murder everyone in the world!! The stupidity of all the different characters’ reactions and behavior has already been cataloged: Peter won’t talk to the Avengers, Reed Richards’ Octavius-system-purge program didn’t fully work, Carlie Cooper acts like a fool, the list just goes on.
This is like having George Bailey slip off the bridge and drown, so Clarence forces George’s flashbacks into Mr. Potter’s brain, then turns him into George.
It’s not the death of Peter that bugged me, it was the way he died. After all these years and being loyal to the series, Peter dies not in a honorable way, but in a cancer-ridden body
If you thought things could not get any worse after One More Day, this book has proven you wrong.
God Help us all.
i’m pissed. i was enjoying it until doc ock had the skull cap thing that the robot could not get through. i thought for a second pete would win. smdh. un friggin real.
Christ almighty.
I just finished reading this and, honestly, words fail me.
And not in a good way. Peter dies a messy, ignoble, senseless death and Otto does a complete Deus Ex machina turnaround which is not the least bit convincing. This is the sort of thing which not only causes readers to leave, but leave in disgust and not come back. Slott, et al, are going to have their hands full dealing with the fallout.
I hope it was worth it.