Sandman and Chameleon Teaser Images

25 Comments

1. If the covers are any indication, they Sinister Six have already won…

2. Also, Chameleon deserves to be part of the Six. He’s totally bad ass. I really like the Sinister Six team at the moment. I reckon its the best line up to date. The only thing I don’t get about Chameleon, nowadays, is: is he able to dodge Spidey’s spider-sense, or has he only attacked recently when Spidey lost the spider-sense and thus can still be detected if impersonating someone?

3. @11 Here, here, Mike 13. I totally agree.

   It’s very simple to me: before the Clone Saga Doc Ock was Spidey’s no.1 villain. After, Osborn was plotted into the Clone Saga just because they wanted another goblin (why not bring the original back) he was positioned into this spot of being the numero uno Spidey rogue, because of unimaginative writing. But to most fans it was like wtf is this?! “How’d Osborn return from a Glider to the chest, oh that? seriously? C’mon! And why is he so bad now? He’s always been mega lame!” Osborn is lame. This statement underpins why he shouldn’t be considered as Spidey’s no.1. Doc Ock is feared.
   I admit, he has been written poorly in recent years; even that Iron Man story recently was bad (bad characterization) but Ock is no.1. The villains always fear him, like the Six, but no one gives a crap about Osborn. He’s just a psycho in a green mask. I know Ock hasn’t played havoc with Peter’s personal life as much as Osborn but if you remove that, then what does he have, really? He’s not a threat in the 616, to innocent people. Because Osborn only goes after Peter. Ock goes after, well, cities or the world. In the 616 itself, Ock is the more dangerous, more the true villain. Even nowadays Osborn has never been a real threat other than to the superheroes themselves. He’s just this stupid nut who goes after capes. Think about this. Real villains couldn’t give a crap about capes, they just want to get what they want (and in their own way, or mind, are just) and have to deal with the heroes when they get there, because they truly believe they are better/beyond them and that. Do you get me?
   Ock is a true threat. And only Spider-man is able to stop him. It’s what makes Spider-man so awesome. I think people sometimes forget to look at things from within the 616 rather than just as a reader, like you did when you were a kid. Because if you are inside that reality, a man like Osborn, who is strong, yes, but bat-sht crazy, is nothing compared to a dude with six arms, four that can move 90m per second and made of the strongest metal on Earth, who is a mad scientist that would rather nuke a city than bother with the personal life of someone beneath them. That’s scary sht!

4. Osborn has entangled himself into Peter’s private life, and done harm to it, that Octavius never did. I think that’s an important difference.

   Sure, Osborn’s evil omnipresence became ridiculous after a while. It got to the point that Marvel made Osborn responsible for everything bad that ever happened to Peter. But apart from the nutty “marry Aunt May to gain the nuclear reactor she inherited” story from the 1970s, Octavius has never inflicted suffering on Peter to the same degree or in the same way that Osborn has done. Octavius is still basically a somewhat generic mad-scientist character, but Osborn is a businessman-psychopath with scientific smarts and unhealthy connections to Peter’s personal life. Octavius deals with Peter from the outside of Peter’s life, but Osborn attacks Peter from inside his Peter’s life. That’s worse.

5. @11

   I’m still waiting on your list of Ock’s deeds…

   You’re arguing yourself into a corner here. How can you compare Ock’s early battle with a sick Peter Parker to the clever work done by Norman. Ock unmasks Spidey (who is lame from the flu, so, a weakened opponent) and then is too stupid to realize that he has the real Spidey (he dismisses the lack of strength as an it being an imposter)…doesn’t sound very threatening to me. Norman, on the other hand, worked much more effectively. How can anyone marginalize the ingenuity it would take to, first, realize spider-man has a spider-sense, then find a way to essentially muffle it?? That’s Spidey’s go-to power and without it he’s significantly less of a threat. In fact, its that quieting of the spider-sense that makes Venom such a dominant threat as well.

   If Norman does something effective against Spidey, it’s a plot device, if Ock does something ridiculous its bad writing. When ock married aunt may, was that not a plot device and/or bad writing? When he was resurrected by magical ninjas, was that not a plot device? Ya gotta be objective here.

   The way I see it, you got the death of George Stacy (which obviously doesn’t trump the death of Gwen Stacy) and the temporary bond btn Peter and Ock that occurred just before he died during the Clone Saga….that’s about it.

   Admittedly, this is the first time I’ve had to defend Norman against Doc Ock, its nice to see an Ock enthusiast out there…but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree 🙂

6. Indeed, if the level of sales “consistency” on a title is too low, it’s actually a LIABILITY rather than an asset. Dan Slott has thrown everything but the kitchen sink at ASM over the course of the past year, and even with Tom Brevoort claiming that DC’s reboot has boosted the number of Marvel comics sold as well, ASM’s sales have STILL gone DOWN since the DC reboot, in spite of even Marvel claiming that there are more customers in the comic shops now than there were before. What this demonstrates is that no one CARES what stunts Slott pulls on ASM, because his sales ALWAYS sink back down to that same baseline of die-hards, sometimes within the SAME MONTH.

7. More of them cared about the stories back then than care about the stories now, because even the lowest sales lows from that era are higher than the current “consistent” sales level. That’s simply objective FACT. Even if they were losing interest at an accelerated rate, there were STILL more of them left who cared enough to actually pick up the comic than even bother to do so anymore. And no, I don’t believe in rewarding the tallest midget in the room by touting sales ranks as being more important than the numbers of copies sold per issue, because it’s a lot easier to seem impressive in a shrinking sales market than it is to seem middling in a more successful sales market.

   Moreover, I don’t think holding up sales ranks as the be-all-and-end-all of sales success is something you want to do if you want to defend ASM or Marvel as a whole, given that AQUAMAN is now outselling literally every single Marvel title on the market, and indeed, in terms of its sales rank, Aquaman has not just “held steady,” but has INCREASED its sales rank during that time, which shouldn’t be possible if it’s simply riding the wave of the New 52 hype. Given that Aquaman has been regarded as a pop culture loser for DECADES, whereas Spider-Man is the star of three of the most money-making movies of ALL TIME, there is exactly ZERO excuse for ASM to be outperformed by Aquaman.

   The point being, your original contention, that fewer people cared about ASM back during the days of the Clone Saga than care about it now, is OBJECTIVELY wrong, because there are fewer people that care about ANY Marvel comics now than cared about Marvel comics back then, and the ONLY way that ASM “wins” is by commanding a slightly higher share of the woefully diminished pool of readers who are LEFT.

8. http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html

   The numbers are indeed accurate, but 71k in July of 1997 was not as impressive as 54k in February in 2012…

   Looking at those numbers as well… ASM #421 sold 81k… that’s a 10k drop in 5 months… ASM #420 sold 92k… that’s a 20k drop in 6 months… ASM #418 sold 118k… christ, say what you want about the number difference, but the book has been selling CONSISTANTLY for over 2 years now… hovering between 52k & 60k… consistancy is a better indication (at least it is to me) of people caring about the book than free falling sales… so yes, while 17 556 more people paid for ASM #426 than ASM #678, but it seems obvious to me that people just didn’t care about the stories at that time, which was my initial point.

   Thanks for reading. 🙂

9. K-Box, just show the source of numbers if that was the point. It’ll be harder to refute if you back yourself up with facts.

10. Mike 13: Amazing Spider-Man #426 sold 71,808 copies in the month and year that it was originally released.

    By contrast, Amazing Spider-Man #678 sold 54,252 copies in January of this year.

    However much anyone might choose to differ with my sales math, the difference between those two numbers pretty clearly indicates that 17,556 more buyers cared more about Amazing Spider-Man #426 than they did about Amazing Spider-Man #678.

11. Two-Bit Specialist: Except that my feelings on Dan Slott don’t actually serve to contradict anything that I’ve said here. If that exact same post was made by someone who wasn’t me, you wouldn’t be able to dismiss it on those grounds, because the underlying logic is sound. Thus, you’re engaging in ad hominem attacks against me, so if anyone shouldn’t be taken seriously, it’s you. Either respond to what I actually wrote, or else stop repeating your bogus excuse for discounting my criticisms. I’m sorry to get harsh with you, since I didn’t bear you any ill will before you made it your mission to tear me down, but I will defend myself.

12. K-Box, we know you hate Dan Slott. I can’t take you seriously anymore.

13. I think the 57 people that actually read ASM #426 could care less about that ressurection story…

14. I guess my biggest problem is that, between a) Peter building yet another one-off Spider-Man suit like he did a few times over at the start of “Big Time,” b) promises of Spider-Man getting put through the wringer by his classic rogues for an extended story arc the way he was in “The Gauntlet,” and c) Doc Ock facing his impending death like he did in “Web of Death” during the Clone Saga, Dan Slott feels to me once again like he’s pulling the Jeph Loeb trick of remixing earlier, better stories into something we’re supposed to regard as “new.” Doc Ock ALREADY DIED, and the Doc Ock who’s supposedly dying NOW because of all the head injuries he’s sustained since his earliest days of fighting Spider-Man is actually a DIGITALLY DOWNLOADED COPY of Doc Ock’s mind in a body that was magically healed from DEATH. I mean, aside from Slott not wanting to face up to the elephant in the room, is there some reason why he’s NOT addressing this, especially since Marvel itself has gone out of its way to remind us of the Clone Saga again by bringing back Kaine as the star of his own ongoing title?

15. @5… I’ll give the killing of his girlfriend, but that’s it… chemical neutralizing his spider-sense? Doc Ock was the first villai nto actually defeat Spider-Man, and he was also the first to unmask him… just as impressive…

    And as far as being responsible for the Clone Saga?No he wasn’t… at least… not when they started… so Norman Osborn turned into a mere plot device, probably due to his popularity in the cartoon. Plot device does not a #1 villain make.

    Truthfully, he was also a plot device for ASM #121/122, because once Stan killed Captain Stacy, Gwen became a two-dimenional “I hate Spider-Man” character, and Conway had no idea what to do with her…. and if you look at the last 3 GG stories prior to that one, (ASM #39/40, Spectacular #1 & ASM #96/97/98), they all ended with Norman getting “amnesia” (that’s THREE times in FIVE years), so Marvel killed two birds with one story and eliminated 2 characters that they felt they could do no more with… and Harry would continue the Goblin legacy… an I’m sorry, but Harry doesn’t come to close to matching his father in that role.

    And in regards to Ock Being afraid of Spider-Man… that was bad writing, but if you read the story that led to that “fear”, it made sense “at the time” (I’m sorry, but Marvel dropped the ball by mking it last for 15 years)… In fact, PETER was SO AFRAID that HE was going to die at the hands of Doc OCk, that he spent an entire issue (Spec. #78) seeing his friends and fanily one last time… in fact, the first panel on page 16 depects Peter and friends in a “last supper” scene… Why was Peter so scared? Because he was afraid of Doc Ock… and how many villains actually “scare” Peter? One the “final battle” was over, Ock’s confidence became intimidation, and vice versa… Peter’s insecurity became confidence.

    The fact that Marvel turned Ock into a pussy for so long is no strange thing for Marvel in regards to Spidey;s Rogues… Scorpion anyone?

    Of course… we should agree to disagree.

16. While I still won’t pick up the books till Spidey’s marriage returns, I must say, I love those covers by Dell’Otto. That Sandman cover is especially gorgeous, but the Chameleon one is also nice and creepy, though I still think Chameleon’s kind of out of place in the Sinister Six. I mean, we have Doc Ock, Mysterio, Electro, Sandman, Rhino… and Chameleon? The other five have powers and/or talents that make them unique and are still challenging to Spidey when facing him solo. The challenge for Chameleon is… he looks and sounds like someone else. He seems out of place in the Sinister Six. Get someone like Scorpion or the Hobgoblin (Kingsley, not Urich – still don’t buy Kingsley would be dumb enough to get himself killed) on the Sinister Six to take over for Chameleon, then we’ll talk.

    The sad thing is, and the unoriginal thing is, I think the Sinister Six are going to kill Spider-Man like the Ultimate Six did in the Ultimate Universe counterpart. Mr. Wacker’s already teased this is “Peter’s last year as Spidey”, so what if they decide to kill off Spidey in this story? You can’t get much more hype than that than to kill off, and then half a year later resurrect, Marvel’s flagship super-hero. As much as I hate to say it, I think Doc Ock might die to. Think about it. This is his last big plan and I think Wacker or Slott or someone said the Sinister Six at the start of this story won’t be the Six we’re left with at the end. What if Doc Ock dies and someone else takes his place at story’s end? This is all speculation right now, but still, not even Dell’Otto’s lovely covers will get me to read the actual story. Sorry, Marvel. Call me when Peter and M.J. are married again after Pete punches Mephisto right between the eyes. THAT I’d pay $4 a month to see. 🙂

17. sandman should go back to being an anti-hero

18. I do think it’s clever how they’re alluding to the whole “2012 mayan calendar end-of-the-world” stuff with this story. Figure someone had to do it eventually.

19. @#6

    Yeah, you keep thinking that.

    “But I´m just saying, why else spend THIS much time on promoting a single story arc?”

    It’s called “trying to drum up interest in the book.”

20. You know, this ungodly amount of promotion for a SINGLE STORY, not a crossover or anything, makes me think there might be some long-lasting change after this story is over. Whether its a good change or a bad one, time will tell. But I´m just saying, why else spend THIS much time on promoting a single story arc? Not even Spider-Island was this heavily promoted(my memory isn´t perfect, so if someone wants to correct me, go ahead) and that was a freaking event.

21. @Norch
    Looks to me like Spidey is going to get run through the wringer again by a host a villains, does it matter if the mastermind is Ock or the Kravinoffs? Seems like a reheated dish to me. But I do respect your enthusiasm, you may want to ignore my cynicism…

    @Mike 13,
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence…I don’t want to derail this thread into a discussion about why Norman is the undoubted King of the Spidey’s rogues gallery, but I couldn’t disagree more. Ock can come into the discussion after his list of attacks on Peter tops 1. first to chemically neutralize Peter’s spider-sense 2. kills (after impregnating) Peter’s gf 3. kills/abducts Baby May 4. fakes the death of Peter’s Aunt 5. masterminds the clone saga etc etc. The emotional and physical warfare list goes on and on.

    Remember that Ock was afraid of Spidey for a long time, could you honestly imagine Norman every being petrified of Spidey (and have it not be part of some ploy, ie Spider-Hunt saga)??

    Ocks greatest foil is Spider-Man, but that doesn’t go vice versa. Norman’s greatest enemy is himself first, then Spidey.

    And ock using a myriad of Spidey’s villains to attack him, sounds like Norman’s plot during the Sinister Twelve…Doc’s gotta work on his originality. 🙂

22. @ #3

    Agreed. Now that Norman is a Marvel Universe villain rather than a Spider-Man villain, he’s sort of just left Peter in the dust it seems… Which I think is really stupid. After all those years of being Peter Parker’s nemesis, how could he just get up forget about him? Hope they don’t actually kill off Dok Ock. But what’s the next step down from diapers… Dock Ock fetus?

23. Doc Ock is by FAR Spider-Man’s #1 arch-nemesis… The Green Goblin may have been all too briefly in 1973, but those days have been long gone. Since the Clone Saga reveal that Norman was “behind the scene” to all of Peter Parker’s torments was just a plot device to make Norman the #1 foe.

    Feel free to disagree.

24. Del’Otto is an art god. I love him. And I can’t wait for this. The Ditko villains are the quintessential Spidey rogues. They’re the friggin coolest! How good is the Mysterio attack gonna be!! The Gauntlet was about Spidey going through the ringer: the Kravinoff’s revenge on Spider-Man as well as their way to break him down, which they needed to because seriously how hard is it to catch Spider-man, so they could resurrect Kraven. ENDS OF THE EARTH is Doc Ock’s Opus Magnum, probably even more so than the Master Planner thing. It’s gonna be epic. The best Spidey villains, led by, in my mind and I think many others, Spidey’s true arch-nemesis (go back to being six feet under, Gobby) Doc Ock in some megalomaniacal plan to, I guess, end the earth. Sick! Yep, I’m definitely salivating in wait for this.
    And they can bring back Gaunt if he brings back those awesome robots of his…though if any roboto should return it should be the ol Daddy Spencer Smythe’s first spider-slayer JJ used to hunt down Spidey. That thing was ridiculously awesome!

25. I’m not sure if this is intentional or not but the whole ‘Ends of the Earth’ shtick seems like Gauntlet all over again to me…between the choice of villains, the cover art being done by an outstanding artist (think last time it was Djurdevic and Fumiara), it just seems very similar. Is it the case that these classic Ditko villains (Mysterio, Sandman, Electro, etc) can only be used as a collective group attacking Peter?

    If we’re gonna relive Gauntlet…why not bring back the villain Gaunt? Can’t believe i just typed that…

    Still though, that Chameleon cover is f’n awesome….nice work Dell’Otto!