Podcast 168- Trailer Thoughts, Movie Race, Biased Comic Reporting

21 Comments

1. You think the costume is terrible? Do you people not remember that he was constantly ridiculed in the comics for wearing “pyjamas” to fight crime? It’s a good thing that they made it look like it was made by a kid by gluing things together. The costume will change by the end of the movie too, or at least in the sequel. Did you see the new promotional images? Those weird “silver-lined” boots are fully red, and there’s a lot less blue on his arms. Be glad they’re giving you a Spider-Man movie.

2. And to clarify, I’m saying that they can just come up with a reason to have a new Spider-Man, like killing off Peter or taking him out of commission or passing the torch. That’s all it takes.

3. @#18

   As long as they don’t just use magic to change Peter Parker’s color and just come up with a reason to have a new Spider-Man, like killing off Peter or taking him out of commission or passing the torch, the next Spider-man in future movies can be GREEN for all I care!

4. Great podcast as always, guys.

   Re: The Amazing Spider-Man trailer–One of the things I picked up on is that the moment Peter is asked by Captain Stacy to “Tell us about yourself” and Gwen explains that “Peter lives with his Aunt and Uncle” is that, in the previous teaser trailer, it comes from the dinner scene–the same dinner scene in which Peter and Captain Stacy debate about Spider-Man in the current trailer. Granted, there may be some editing involved, but it gives the impression that Peter, as Spider-Man, is already a crime-fighting superhero in full costume BEFORE Uncle Ben gets murdered. While it depends upon how the filmmakers approach this, I’m not sure how well Spidey fans will take this if such a change is indeed in the film.

   Re: Spidey being played by an African-American/Hispanic in future films–I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, but I also think there’s a fundamental aspect about Spider-Man which we may be overlooking. Because Spider-Man wears a full body costume and mask, you cannot tell what race or ethnicity he really is (unless the costume gets damaged, of course) and thus allows everyone of all races and ethnic backgrounds to identify with him. A great metafictional example of this is in James Cameron’s script-treatment of his proposed Spider-Man film (which Sam Raimi briefly alluded to but didn’t explore in the first film):

   “…in some neighborhoods, he is a local
   legend. Crime is down, and the friendly neighborhood
   Spider Man is a welcome sight. And everybody wants to
   claim him.

   “Black kids think he’s black. White kids white. Hispanic
   etc.

   “‘Spidey man ain’t no white dude. He too down. What I’m
   sayin. You see his moves? He definitely a brother.’
   ‘No way, home. My brother knows a guy that talked to him
   once, man.’
   Italians say he’s Italian.
   Gays think he’s gay.”

   So wouldn’t calling attention to the fact that Peter Parker is of a specific race, ethnic background, etc.–including calling attention to the fact he currently happens to be a W.A.S.P., BTW–undermine this idea?

5. And a first warning goes out to Ebonyleopard for the personal attack on George on the “ignorance” comment.

6. @#6

   Of all the examples you give, how many of those took the existing character and just painted them a different color? Not made a new character and gave them a similar or the same name… TOOK THE EXISTING CHARACTER AND JUST PAINTED THEM A DIFFERENT COLOR?

   Go check up on that and get back to us…

7. I just started listening to the newest podcast, so I will get drawn in completely by the ‘Spider-Man race’ issue. But before that, love the opening music. Who was the musician/artist for this?

8. @#11

   PERFECT sense.

9. … The hell just happened?!?! Now I can see my post!!!

10. Fine… I’ll retype it. The argument over Spidey’s race doesn’t need to be debated this much. Here’s what it basically comes down to. And this is coming from a black man, so hopefully I won’t come off as sounding racist. It makes NO sense to change Spier-Man’s race now because it’s the Spider-Man who’s been white for OVER 50 YEARS. What point would it serve to change his race now?

    Now, future versions of the character are fair game, and dare I say, even encouraged. These characters would be new, not ones already established 50 years ago. Why, you could even *GASP!*… make the next Spider-Man a Spider-woman. This is the main reason why I think even the blatant act of desperation that is Miles Morales could work. He’s a new character who can be developed into a good character. He’s not Ultimate Peter Parker with different skin pigmentation.

    Now I think they got away with Nick Fury and Kingpin because anyone who cared wasn’t loud enough to be heard. Plus Sam Jackson and Michael Clarke Duncan did fantastic jobs in the respected roles.

    And I do agree… you could always just make new characters… and write them better while you’re at it.

11. Changing Peter Parker to an African American would be a problem for me.

    Making an African American into Spider-Man is not.

    Make sense?

12. And now it’ll let me… wha?

    This whole change the race of characters debate is getting more discussion than it needs. Even going back to the whole why can’t Spider-Man be black question. The answer’s simple, and before anyone questions me, I’m black, too… because he’s been white for 50 years. What good reason would you have to change him now? No one’s given a satisfactory one, have they? Now, for the legacy part, of course you can have a Black/Asian/female/etc. There’s no set rule saying that anyone having the identity of Spider-man passed on to them has to also be the same race. That’s why despite him being basically an act of desperation, Miles Morales CAN work. But only on the strength of the writing and the building of him as a character. The next Spider-Man can be whoever you want. But changing the one that’s been around for half a decade just doesn’t make sense.

    As for Nick and Wilson… I’m guessing if anyone had a problem with that, there weren’t enough of them to complain loud enough. Plus, it helped that the Micheal and Sam did good jobs portraying them in the movies.

    That’s my opinion, and I’m stickin’ to it.

13. god I want to post something, but it seems to be stopping me for some reason…

14. I think that what George is saying is that a lot of times it’s just change for change’s sake. Making a character black or hispanic because it’s interesting is being creative but changing a character’s race and announcing “Can you handle it America?!” is marketing.

    Fun fact: I read somewhere that in the 80’s a Heroes For Hire movie starring Hulk Hogan was considered.

    Marvel Studios needs to get going with their black characters on film. Way before they ever did Blade Wesley Snipes talked about doing the Black Panther. He said that he was going to use Capoeira and stick fighting. They’ve been trying to get Luke Cage off the ground for years. The old Flixburg review site had a review for a script that featured Cage, Misty Knigh, Iron Fist and Nick Fury. The Falcon could be used in a Captain America sequel. The Rock is the biggest action star right now and a good actor to boot, throw some money his way and let him go. Do like he said they did on GI Joe. Send him a list of characters and ask who he wants to be.

15. I enjoyed Spider-Man 2099. A lot. I’ve also gone on record – several times now – as saying that if Hobie Brown stepped in as Spider-Man in 616 I’d be fully behind it since he’s an established character in the Spider-Man universe. One I’ve enjoyed in the stories very much over the years.

    You’re also missing what I was saying entirely, as well as missing the point I was making. If you actually listen instead of hearing what you want to hear you would catch me explaining that I absolutely do not want a white Black Panther or Power Man and that changing them would tick me off. If you ever spent any time on our message boards you’d also know how huge of a fan I am of T’Challa, Luke Cage, Shang Chi, etc. etc. If someone ever tried to cast a white guy as Shang Chi in a movie I’d be swearing bloody murder over it.

    On the podcast, when I joke ahead of time about the people who will absolutely not understand what I am saying and just rush right towards being angry at me… yeah I was talking about you. Thanks for proving my point. 8)

    “THe only problem that seems to get the anger up is if the race of the character underneath the identity is changed, THEN it becomes a problem. Black haired, blonde haired Batgirls nobody blinks at. Ironic, isn’t it?.”

    I was a huge fan of Cassandra Cain as Batgirl, and have been vocal about that here as well. But by all means please continue to misunderstand me. Heh.

16. I’ll also say this. I notice the “give me something new” idea never seems to get blown up and brought up when it’s Spider-Woman (how many are they?), Batman (there were at least 4 of those to start, a whole bunch now), Supergirl (How many different Supergirls are there?), Spider-Girl (at least 2 of those). THe only problem that seems to get the anger up is if the race of the character underneath the identity is changed, THEN it becomes a problem. Black haired, blonde haired Batgirls nobody blinks at. Ironic, isn’t it?.

17. Somebody better not tell George about Spider-Man 2099, but then, I guess he is half hispanic half Irisih so he would still qualify as a white person.

    I’ve heard many things said on the podcast and enjoyed many of them, but those comments have had to be the dumbest I’ve ever heard him say. If they wanted to make a Spider-Man movie and cast Peter Parker as a black guy, THAT I would understand, if they want to cast Spider-Man as a totally different guy under the costume, what’s the problem.

    George must have never heard of the Japanese Spider-Man manga and tv series, that is older than all the other versions of the guy under the mask of Spider-Man.

    Sorry Gearge, they’ve already had a Japanese Spider-Man. We’ve had a Hispanic-Irish Spider-Man, and now we have a Black-Hispanic Spider-Man. Calling for a “white” PowerMan is totally missing the point. TOTALLY. Spider-Man is the idetnity of the costumed hero, Power Man is the GUY. You’re legit argument would have been Nick Fury. If they made a Power Man movie and they made “Luke Cage” a white guy, then yeah, they’re changing the PERSON, the civilian identity not the costumed hero’s name. And frankly, the comparisons don’t ever match up when you are talking about a full body costumed hero and changing the race of the person under the costume.

    George’s ignorance really came firing through on this one.

18. It’s all about money. The characters are the ethnicity they are because they’re being sold to people of that ethnicity. If 65% of U.S. citizens somehow turned African-American overnight, all of Marvel’s characters would be transformed to black within a month. But changing a major character’s race just for the sake of political correctness is economically pointless.

    I also think it’s insulting to members of that race, as if the black experience is nothing more than a color, and not a history and an identity that shapes you. Peter Parker, established character, couldn’t be black no matter how many clicks of the mouse are clicked.

19. I am little puzzled by the term “half african american/half hispanic”. Why not simply black hispanic or something like that? Perhaps I just don’t get the idiosyncrasies of american race relations, but things like this just seem so weird.

20. I almost forgot about podcasts

21. On the issue of changing the race of Super-hero’s, I think both Donovan and George both made great points. Great discussion guys.

    I think George is wrong in taking such a hard stance on the changing of the race of some characters and portraying it as “getting rid of the white people”, but let me be clear I do not think George’s point is racist at all. Just that he is drawing to hard a line in the sand on it. Although stating it as “getting rid of the white people” is not helping his case 😀

    George’s gets taken as racist in my opinion because he mocks things by making extreme examples and people mistakenly take it as his point of view veiled in humour. I think he is just trying to making a point by stating things int he extreme.

    As Donovan states, the problem is 99.9% of superheroes are white, so changing a non-white to white is not at all like the other way around. The issue is with poor representation of other races in comics. It’s all well and good to say make more characters of other races and I agree on that point. But unless a character has something about there race that makes it an important part of who they are, then what is the issue? I see no issue with making tertiary characters like Nick Cage black. I honestly don’t see it as any worse than making Wolverine over 6 feet tall! While I agree that Spidey should be white, I think the changes to his costume in the new movie for instance is far worse than changing the Kingpin or Nick Cage to black actors.

    However I do also strongly agree with George in that I believe that changing some characters to another race is just wrong. When I see a character adapted to another medium I still want that character to be who they were in the comic. A black Peter parker would have to be a character that would have dealt with a whole set of different issues to a white Peter parker. If you want to tell that story he needs to be a different character. I have no problems with Miles Morales being Spider-Man for instance, because he’s a different Spider-Man. And I don’t want to see a large portion of heroes changed to create a more ethnically diverse super hero world. That is just dumb and not the solution. The solution lies somewhere in between, be more open minded to changing SOME characters races where it is appropriate. And create better racially diverse heroes that can have their own movies/cartoons etc.

    George also makes a great point with bringing up Spider-Girl. While not as bad as the race diversity, the under representation of women is almost as big of a factor. The few women hero’s there are are far too often little more than sex objects. I would KILL to see a Spider-Girl movie!