‘Because having the Avengers appear monthly in ASM’s just not enough!’
Marvel’s announced a new Spider-Man and Avengers title called ‘Avenging Spider-Man’ that will be rolling out in November. The new Spidey & Avengers book will be written by Zeb ‘Shed’ Wells and drawn by Joe Madureira.
How will it mix with what Dan Slott’s doing in ‘Amazing?’ According to Wells:
“In my mind, Dan is Daddy. I don’t want to make Daddy mad. I don’t want to spank him. If Daddy likes something we do, he can run with it.”
There are hints of other villains as well, from Avengers villains to ‘Vulture,’ though it’s not clear yet if it’ll be the Vulture or the Throw-Up Vulture.
More info at CBR.
–George Berryman!
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*Munches popcorn watching this back and forth escalate*
@Mr. Wacker – Your thinly-veiled snark is thinly-veiled.
Stephen, every time you come here you’re always saying I’m a “tough guy, know it all bully.” But each and every time you come here it’s always *you* making personal attacks and insults at me, Kevin or others and not the Crawl Space staff making them at you. So yeah, let’s let that speak for itself.
‘Nuff Said.
#98-Those quotes aren’t examples of bullying. Those are examples of you cutting and posting hoping to land something resembling a point.
Anyhoo, I’ll just let your behavior continue to make my point for me.
Hey, at the very least, I’ll bet the Enigma guy is on your side!
SW
@Brian – Thanks and I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one whose going to give this a read.
George, every argument with your turns into the same thing with you stomping your feet and repeating your mantra of “the Crawlspace isn’t negative!”
Are you paid for everytime you say it?
Honestly, Who cares? That has nothing to do with what I was commenting on. You worry too much about childish stuff.
SW
“I suspect you’re used to being able to bully people and you’ve made it clear you’d like to just say whatever you want and never be challenged or corrected, but the world doesn’t seem to really care. Least I don’t.”
Oh for God’s sake, now who’s playing a victim? And as someone who doesn’t care you spend an awful lot of time here “not caring.”
If I was trying to bully you I’d be saying crap like “I suspect you don’t know people” and “you have bigger problems.” But that hasn’t been me saying there here, has it Stephen?
“And again –as you do in most threads–you try to turn my point into a commentary of your grading history (which really I dont think people take as seriously as you seem to) rather than discuss the actual point I made. It’s getting pretty obvious at this point that you can’t stay on topic.”
We only bring up the positive things said on the podcast say when you start in on the regular “Crawl Space is negative!!” meme. And I *specifically* addressed the point you made.
Also, i don’t really read a lot of reviews positive or negative anymore. It’s never been my nature. Better to just do the work.
But when folks like your self say untrue things..or extrapolate horribly from my words as you’ve made a habit of…I don’t mind clarifying or giving a little back.
I suspect you’re used to being able to bully people and you’ve made it clear you’d like to just say whatever you want and never be challenged or corrected, but the world doesn’t seem to really care. Least I don’t.
SW
George, you have a child’s view of human behavior. I’m starting to suspect you may not actually know people.
Suffice it to say, There are degrees between slobbering and shitting.
And again –as you do in most threads–you try to turn my point into a commentary of your grading history (which really I dont think people take as seriously as you seem to) rather than discuss the actual point I made. It’s getting pretty obvious at this point that you can’t stay on topic.
Anyway, You just made my point for me that Kevin is proudly unexcited about the book. But at the same time you’re arguing that same point when i make it.
Pick a side, Windy!
SW
#91-CORRECTION
HA! “jpournal of your gradfes”. My big fat fingers curse me!
It obviously should have read “giraffe of you braids, fester”.
SW
You don’t care about the positive things said about the books on the podcast – you just want to hone in on any of the negative because it fits your narrative better. The site’s damned if we do and damned if we don’t!
How’s his behavior unfortunate? Just because he doesn’t fall all over himself drooling and wetting himself at the announcement of another Spider-Man Team-Up title, or yet another title with Avengers & Wolverine poured all over it like gravy? Considering the fate of other recent Spider books is it that hard to understand that some might think it’s a bit futile?
George. I swear you just need coke bottle glasses and a chalkboard and you could get your own show!
Me mocking you has nothing to do with how the book is doing. I’ve been doing it for awhile. You do make yourself a cartoonishly easy target with your tough guy, know-it-all persona that’s even wearing thin here at your house.
“Commentator”. Heh. Can you imagine?
And again, I was the first to call the book “team-up”–though you;ve tried about a half dozen times to pretend you were saying somthing insightful about the book based on your year of experience. An adult would acknowledge that (You shouldn’t though. It’d disappoint your fanbase if you gave even an inch!)
Hey, Did you get your “Spidey sales are weak” schtick from the Kev-Box? It’s going on 4 years of “failing” into one of the top selling books for consecutive 120 issues. The horror!
You guys remind me of those Japanese soldiers they found on South PAcific islands who didn’t know the was over and they lost. (Or at least the Gilligan’s Island version of that.)
SW
“Peons”?
Again Kevin, you have a low view of yourself that I don’t share.
And I have to admit, I’m not keeping a jpournal of your gradfes on the book. I honestly don’t care all that much and while I know the grades are one of the go-to defenses around here, they have nothing to do with the point I made or your unfortunate behavior.
SW
I didn'”I can tell you think you’re scoring another of your “points” you get so excited about with the Marvel Team-Up thing, but I said as much in the actual press call you’re so hot and bothered about. Of COURSE it’a a team up book….just as people on this board have said we were stupid for not doing in the past.”
I didn’t feel like I’d scored any “points” by pointing out the obvious. I also wasn’t alone (nor even first!) in calling this a Team-Up book, or in saying that ASM has become a Team-Up book.
“Anyway, Congrats on discovering the obvious. Another example of that crack comics journalism you’re so famous for?”
I’d never call myself a journalist. Commentator, yes. Journalist – never. I respect myself too much to ever want to be a journalist.
“As for the rest, you’re simply playing the victim as usual. If you have to make up BS stuff like me saying ““Stupid customers – it’s their fault!” to make your “points”, then there’s really no talking to you. You got bigger problems than comics you don’t like, that much is clear.”
Oh? Okay since you apparently know me so well Stephen, what *are* my bigger problems? Or did you say that because I pointed out how your behavior with fans didn’t really sound like an editor confident with how his book’s doing? Sorry but… it doesn’t.
I don’t feel “victimized” by Marvel’s terrible PR. I do think it’s sad, but I don’t feel “victimized” over it.
By the way, you have my condolences over DC stealing all the wind out of Marvel’s sails for the last two weeks. I’m sure you guys wanted this (and the recent Fear news and future Uncanny renumbering) to be bigger than it wound up being. If it makes you feel any better the DC thing actually made me agree with Brevoort on something.
“It’s a shame you’re so put upon in this mean ol’ world. If only there were a place poor, innocent George were allowed to speak freely of his angry, bilious feeling as about Spidey without always being censored and made to stop talking.”
No one’s censored me here, nor has anyone made me stop talking about anything. How many times have I told other posters not to make it personal against you when you do precisely that? I’ve lost track now, as I have with the number of times I’ve pointed out to others that there are always legitimate ways to criticize Marvel’s poor decisions – the Spidey Office in particular.
Brad makes a good point about doing too many reviews in the show. That would be boring, I’m sure.
In the end though, my point wasn’t that you must review you this book, obviously. (I have no doubt that Kevin will find something wrong with it anyway. I can already hear him deciding between “crapass” or “buttass” for his review! 🙂
It was just the odd, public endzone dance about not having to read one of the biggest Spidey books of the year for your Spider-Man podcast that proved my point and exposed why some of the cast are getting a bit redundant.
(Trying to open Kevin’s eyes to the smallmindedness of his angrily insouciant and dismissive worldview was just me being nice. I do place a high value on peope who at least “try” something in life, though, so we may just be different people.)
SW
George! Your blood pressure, dear!
Since you’ve tried to land this lame punch a few times now, let me address one thing first.
I can tell you think you’re scoring another of your “points” you get so excited about with the Marvel Team-Up thing, but I said as much in the actual press call you’re so hot and bothered about. Of COURSE it’a a team up book….just as people on this board have said we were stupid for not doing in the past.
Anyway, Congrats on discovering the obvious. Another example of that crack comics journalism you’re so famous for?
As for the rest, you’re simply playing the victim as usual. If you have to make up BS stuff like me saying ““Stupid customers – it’s their fault!” to make your “points”, then there’s really no talking to you. You got bigger problems than comics you don’t like, that much is clear.
It’s a shame you’re so put upon in this mean ol’ world. If only there were a place poor, innocent George were allowed to speak freely of his angry, bilious feeling as about Spidey without always being censored and made to stop talking.
Oh wait!
SW
“Grand vision”! HA! I’m just the worst! Probably not even human!
SW
@tnr… thought that poster looked pretty sweet, pretty excited for that movie personally
good to hear it Nathaniel, looking forward to your reviews. I’ll probably be adding this comic to my pull list as well.
So yeah I’ll be reviewing this. I am interested in picking it up and even though it sounds like a Marvel Teamup book I can see why they decided to call it “Avenging Spider-Man” to draw more attention. Art looks good so far and I’m willing to give Zeb Wells a chance (I am so far enjoying Carnage after all).
…
So how about that Avengers movie poster?
Well, as much as I love hearing 6 panelists talk about Spidey, that’s too many reviews for one show IMO. After a while I think it becomes redundant.
Thor was a good movie
It’s easy to do the math. 6 panelists x 3 to 4 books a podcast x 4 to 5 minutes each person. It takes up a large portion of the show.
“The angry, bitter old man act and accusing everything of being “crap” is pretty tired as well, George. Being defensive and acting a victim when something doesn’t go your way goes hand in hand with being a “hater.”
So because I don’t like the current direction of Spidey I’m an “angry, bitter old man.” I guess that’s why I *have* said positive things about ASM on the podcast from time to time, especially in regard to art. Maybe me being such a “hater” is why I’m planning on seeing Thor for the second time tomorrow, or why I’m looking forward to Rucka’s Punisher.
Thanks Brian. This has been insightful. 🙂
#78- The question is: are the reviews too long due to the content of the book, or just because of the tediousness of reviewing in general, irregardless of quality?
Brian,
I agree these back and forth’s would be better on the message board. However, Wacker decided to stop posting there and instead debate on the front page. The MB is also easier to quote who you’re talking to etc. Anytime you see a thread on the front page with over 100 posts you can bet “There’s a Wacker in those woods.” lol.
As far as reviewing every Spidey book on the podcast I think that would be sooo boring. There is always something Spidey or comic related happening for us to discuss. I find the reviews too long as they are now with just reviewing the ASM books.
The angry, bitter old man act and accusing everything of being “crap” is pretty tired as well, George. Being defensive and acting a victim when something doesn’t go your way goes hand in hand with being a “hater.”
I am obviously using this site differently then you are. I stay away from the messageboard as much as possible to avoid these types of arguments. I feel that these ongoing back and forths with Wacker don’t paint the crawlspace in the best light for any visitor to the site and could drive away potential readers. Instead of being a valid source for Spider-Man news, it’s viewed as a sounding board for people to vent their own personal anger and grudges. It’s not my site so it’s not my place to say what makes for good front page conversation. It’s just my opinion that these long winded back and forths are more suitable for a messageboard, which is different than commentary on an article that should focus more on respectable, intelligent conversation.
Brian, I hear you, but you gotta look at the facts. There is a consistent catalyst for these 100+ comments, and it’s not something that Berryman, Kevin, or other board members say usually.
The “lovers and haters” thing really is a tired bunch of crap. I “love” Spidey and I “hate” the new status quo. Everyone’s “lovey” or “hatey” on one thing or another, sometimes both on one thing or another. So get over the “haters” crap already Brian.
“f you don’t like the current direction, write some fan fiction like Kevin does to make yourself feel better about it.”
Or God forbid, I’ll discuss it on a Spider-Man message board where others might agree or disagree with me.
Wow, that was really long… sorry… and i just realized it was spideydude, and not Kevin who seemed upset about the new comic. My apologies for not having my facts straight.
I love how out of control these posts get that most people lose sight of the main article or what the whole point of the arguments were in the first place.
Anyway, I may get blacklisted or loss some cool points for this but I’m going to take Wacker’s side a little. If he comes off as combatitive or antagonistic, the same came be said for several of the posters on this site. Sorry to talk ill of the visitors or the “big wigs,” but I have seen it come from both sides here. He has acted very civil with some commentors who take the time to ask him questions and not attack him or the book that he works on. I personally have gotten respectful answers out of him in regards to some of my questions when I had them. When somebody is being negative towards somebodys work, of course they will be defensive, just like the commentors and podcast members are now defensive that Wacker seemingly attacked Kevin and called for his removal. And when Wacker comes here and gets defensive and claims that people on this site, or on the podcast are being overly negative, then the best response is to accuss him of being too negative or that he hates Spider-Man. I feel this is a pretty classic “which came first, the chicken or the egg” argument. No one is going to win in the end when we’re both slinging mud at each other calling each other’s Spider-loyalties into question. Should he conduct himself in a more civil manner to his customers, sure maybe, but why do we have the right to act like children and tell him he sucks or doesn’t know any better than we do. Just because we’re not getting paid for our time spent here? I try to be very fair balanced and have an open mind about Spidey and this site but I must admit, seeing all the negativity really takes a lot out of me. Anybody hear the phrase, you catch more flies with honey?
TNR said it best that these are all different interpretations of the same character. The Spider-Man we have is not going to be the same Spider-Man of the 1990s, like he was not the same Spider-Man of the 1980s, 70s or 60s. Times change when new writers, editors or management gets involved. Nothing gold can stay. So is the best response to say “screw you, you’re ruining Spider-Man.” No it’s to do what TNR did and say ‘hey, this isn’t for me.” Sure, that sucks, but this is their time to control the story or Spider-Man for better or worse. Because really, nobody here has any claim to what Spider-Man should be other than those that are actually paid to write about him. They are the ones currently steering his life, whether you like it or not. If you don’t like the current direction, write some fan fiction like Kevin does to make yourself feel better about it. It’s either that or just stop reading it all together. I went and saw the X-Men movie even though I knew it was going to let me down because in my eyes, a subpar X-Men movie is better than not having any X-Men movie in my book. I am not wild about the current Spidey stories, but they’re better than not having any Spidey stories at all. I welcome a new Spidey centric comic, whether its an Avengers team up or not. In time, things will change again. We’ll have a new status quo and new supporting cast and new stories. Its the only way a comic thats been around for 40 years will last or grow.
@Two-Bit, he said they hate the Spidey books, thats different than hating Spidey. And thats the way it did come off to me too “oh no not another Spidey book to talk about” (which is weird since as a listener I picked up on the fact that you guys dont review anything besides Amazing a while ago, so why would you need to review this new comic). I personally would welcome any opportunity to talk about any Spidey book but thats jsut me. And yeah, sitting down for 4 hours to talk about stuff could be tough, I don’t deny it, but maybe thats just a problem with the format of the podcast and not having enough time, which is no fault of any of the podcast members since I know we all have our own busy lives outside of this site.
I do have a question though. How much input does Wacker have as an editor? Cause I know at my job, all the editors do is just look out for mistakes and continuity errors. Is he really the one to blame for the direction Spider-Man is taken like we sometimes paint it to seem? It seems to me that he’s not the architect of the story and just someone to help with fact checks. Are we just projecting on him because he’s the only one on the Amazing staff to speak on here from time to time?
Sorry for the rant and if anybody was offended by my stance, but like I said a ways up… ‘haters gotta hate, lovers gotta love’ i’m a lover through and through so I will try to find the silver lining in things. It seems like a lot of us are so set on hating the current status quo that they will always find something to complain about.
From post #68: “No one claims in any serious way that you don’t love Spider-Man.”
To which I bring attention to post #38: “I don’t expect anything to happen really since the bread and butter here by most of the regulars is proving who hates the Spidey books the most.”
I rest my case.
~My Two Cents
I’m sure that we’d be willing to review that book if it was going to be an important part of Spider-Man. Nothing tells me that it will be. Course we have til NOvember to see that case made for its importance. Because I seem to remember thinking that it would be an important part of the Avengers to have Spidey be a member of the team, it turned out that he is there to be Mr. Jokey Joke One Note.
It’s very telling how Marvel’s first instinct is to blame the customer. Don’t like the product? “Stupid customers – it’s their fault!”
Maybe if Marvel hadn’t been spending the last three years (or more, really) trying to generate “buzz” by pissing people off you wouldn’t have as much apathy when something ‘new’ is announced. And by the way – Marvel Team-Up’s not ‘new,’ Steve.
Know why I’m so “Jesus I couldn’t care less!” about this? Because as a Spidey fan I think it’s stupid to have the character on one team, let alone three. On top of that, as an Avengers fan, Wolverine shouldn’t be there either. Red Hulk? Seriously? How redundant is the character now?
Stephen if your direction, your grand vision, for ASM right now was so solid you could get by with the book being about Peter and not feel like you have to throw in one of two super teams, complete with Wolverine in any given month (let me guess – both will be involved in Spider-Island?) to boost interest. And if it were working you wouldn’t be frustrated to the point of fighting with potential customers. These don’t sound like the comments of a sure, confident editor.
If the Defenders reform, will Spidey and Wolverine be on there, too? And if so will there still be a spot for the two of them on Power Pack and the Champions?
Also… can someone please respond to Enigma. I have to run.
SW
#65-That was a cool post. Stay in school! And keep your mind open to life!
#66-It’s a common tactic in these threads for some of you regulars to leap right into defending your love of Spider-Man as if that were in doubt. No one claims in any serious way that you don’t love Spider-Man. I don’t anyway. It’s a strawman POV put in my mouth by some of you because it’s easy to defend. I think you need to get past it.
Anyway…
If, as you say, the members of a Spidey podcast are excited NOT to review one of the biggest issues of the year, it’s more a statement on the casting of that podcast than it is an indictment of the book.
SW
Hot Toys is coming out with a Movie Spider-Man figure that I may have to kill to get.
Steve-
I’ve been pretty casual in my dealings with you. But I get annoyed, even a bit pissed when you call out Kevin for making the statement that he is excited for us not having to review this new book. To get into the ‘Inside Baseball’ way of things:
Last month there were 4 books. 4. All four had several stories inside them, with the 22 page story, 2 page backup and 4-6 page back up. That’s a TON of ground to cover with anywhere from 5 to 7 panelists. Usually the first hour is dominated by the news at the very top, with the reviews in the middle before going to the recommendations. Third to fourth hour is usually spent answering the questions from the message board. That’s four hours a month, in one sitting. That’s not including emails, iTunes reviews etc etc. So the BIG thing about Kevin’s comment wasn’t about his love of Spider-Man, it was the fact that we’re sitting there for upwards of 4 to 6 hours and another book being passed around the six or so panelists is difficult to fit in. Before the start of the 3X a month format of ASM we only ever reviewed ASM/FNSM/MKSM(SSM). The three core titles. Now, I’m sure if the title crosses over with the ASM title then we will likely review it. Course that is BD’s Call.
Unlike some podcast that are done in the Crawl Space Podcasting Network, we do not get together weekly and do recordings. Kevin and myself are busy with School most of the year, Brad is a father and husband and has a day job reporting for the great city of Joplin. JR is also a father and Husband. Mike is doing 75 podcasts (It seems) and also balances his own family life. Stella is a teacher. George works many hours a week and has very little time.
MY point is that we only can get together once a month. And there are times when we can’t get everyone on. This month is an example, I was only on for was seemed like an half hour, Mike had to leave, Kevin and George were unavailable. We went to the Bullpen and got Bertone to fill in.
AS for Zeb Wells: I personally liked his work on Peter Parker Spider-Man towards the end of that titles run. I enjoyed the goofy MTV Rocks story for poking fun at pop culture, I enjoyed his work with Sam Keith and the Sandman. I didn’t enjoy Shed, but I enjoyed the Blizzard story that kicked off his ASM run. So Count me a little optimistic when it comes to his writing.
As for Joe Mad, I hope he’s going to be able to keep the title from falling behind.
As for everyone here: We all love Spidey. I have differing opinions on what you guys think about Spider-Man, as he is to me all about responcability. According the Breevort Manifesto, the editorial staff think that he’s about youth.
-Zach
Mr. Wacker, you don’t know me and I don’t know you. I respect the amount of work and dedication you put into this, and I don’t envy you in the least. I hope this doesn’t come off has rude, but although we all share the same love for the character, it’s clear we don’t always see eye to eye. Though our versions of Spidey may be different, they are all valid interpretations. I honestly believe that you and the rest of your colleagues love the character, but your interpretation is so far from the Spidey we know and love. Does that make your interpretation any less valid? Not at all, it’s just not the Spider-Man I enjoy reading. Though I may have dropped the books if someone is a fan of “NuSpidey” all the more power to them, and I’m glad they enjoy the books. They’re entitled to enjoy their era of Spidey as much as the rest of us.
I’m a fairly young reader, pushing 17, and have been reading comics since I was 6 years old, over a decade of my life. I grew up with and prefer a married Spider-Man, and actually related more to him then I do the current young, single, Spidey swinging around in the monthly title. I love that version of Spidey because it is the era I started reading in, just as you and the higher-ups at Marvel love the era you read growing up, which comes across strongly in the ways the character has regressed in the past few years.
That said, although we all may have certain biases, many of the podcast reviews have been fairly positive of late, from the B to A range. Although the panel may not be big on the status quo, they can recognize quality work when they see it. Even though some of us won’t be picking this up, I wish you all the best and hope this is successful for both you and our favorite webhead.
Respectfully,
-tnr105
#62-Not sure if it’ll be immediate, but I really want to do it. My 8 year old son wants it too.
I can’t believe I have a kid who knows what “Frost Giants’ are.
SW
Brad,
“Kicked off” is more than a little dramatic. It’d be nice for the show–at least the oens I’ve heard– if there was more drama or surprise at what the various reactions would be… particularly Kevin’s who’s become more than a little predictable. As it is though, I’m sure he’ll be extra careful to say good things about the new book now just to prove how open-minded he is and how hateful I am.
I have a theatre background though, so this may just be my showmanship speaking. I know you guys like to look out for each other at any sign of even the slightest criticism.
Not sure what you’re implying about Zeb and I getting paid for our jobs. That’s bad now? I apologize that George and Kevin’s comic careers haven’t panned out, but I don’t see how that’s got anything to do with me.
I think it’s really cool how much people volunteer their time around here.
SW
@Wacker – Wells’ mentioned that it would be cool to see Spidey in Asgard. Is that something that’s on the immediate line-up soon after the Red Hulk arc or just a random thought? Spidey interacting with Thor was something I was looking forward to when it was announced that he would be a part of the main Avengers team.
Heh…At the Crawlspace calling someone not s “stupid asshole” is an insult. Ypunever disappoint.
Gerard, how did I get you fired? Do you not trust Brad’s judgment? (i know you probably can’t answer that honestly.)
SW
Steve,
Seriously, you suggest that Kevin be kicked off the podcast and now are giving him career advice? Come on dude.
Also I concede that Zeb is your boy and think he’ll be able to launch a new Spider-Book. All power to you. I also understand why you’re defensive of him. I too am defensive of Kevin and George. Both do a lot of work for the site and are even better friends. Since I’m the editor of this site, they’re not going anywhere. Unlike Zeb and yourself, they’re not making a dime off of their love of Spidey.
I’m also impressed you listen to the podcast. So you must realize that the grades for your book are all over the place every single month. With the exception of that one month that “Shed” came out. lol.
Look out, Kevin! Steve is going to end up getting you “fired” just like me … 😆
@57
Huh?!?! Waitaminute!!! I thought he said you guys were ignoring me!!!
@Enigma
He isn’t trying, he is succeding.
I’m gonna ask again… is someone impersonating Wacker here, or is he really trying to outdo himself here, troll-wise?
There you go again Wacker. If you don’t call your attitude combative (see comment numbers #33, #38, #43, #49 and #54), then I have no idea what you’d call it. This sort of attitude by creatives and editors toward customers, as I’ve said before, is one of the things that is pushing me away from Marvel as a whole.
Kevin, I stand by what I said, but to be clear….I do not think you are a “Stupid Asshole”.
That interpretation is a telling look at your self-esteem problems, though. I think you’re much smarter than I think even you do… and I wish you had more of an artist’s curiousity about the world rather than so often succumbing to the much easier and knuckle draggingly angry reaction of needing to prove how much everything sucks.
The world has plaenty of know it alls who do nothing. You should aim higher. You can.
SW