Spidey is assigned to substitute teach for the members of the AVENGERS ACADEMY. But when the PSYCHO-MAN interrupts them on patrol, the school of Hard Knocks quickly becomes a game of life and death!”
“The Substitute” part one
Written by Christos Gage
Illustrated by Reilly Brown
Inked by Victor Olazaba
Colored by John Raunch
Lettered by VC’s Joe Caramagna
Cover art by Ed McGuinness and Morry Hollowell
“Just Another Day”
Written by Paul Benjamin
Illustrated by Javier Pulido
Assistant Editor: Ellie Pyle
Senior Editor: Stephen Wacker
Editor in Chief: Axel Alonso
Chief Creative Officer: Joe Quesada
Publisher: Dan Buckley
Executive Producer: Alan Fine
THE PLOT(s): Giant Man approaches one of the Future Foundation to substitute for the Avengers Academy class in superheroing. Spider-Man volunteers on the basis that he used to teach and misses teaching. Throughout the class, Spider-Man’s previous doubts are realized when the students don’t take as well to the training course as he’d hoped. In the backup, Peter has a typical day as Spider-Man.
LONG STORY SHORT: The Psycho-Man reveals himself to be behind Spidey’s doubts. Though Spider-Man overcomes them, the Psycho-Man then has the brainwashed Avengers Academy kids attack the webslinger.
MY THOUGHTS: One of the biggest problems, if not the biggest problem I have with the new direction of Amazing Spider-Man is that, more often than not, characters and situations will be elevated at the expense of our main protagonist. Single or not, what offended me the most with Brand New Day and some of Big Time is that the character of Spider-Man was seemingly reduced to an ineffectual, inexperienced whiner who was by and large a shade of his pre-2008 self. It wasn’t a central shift in characterization meant to be recognized as a new form of Spider-Man. Rather, the sense from both the writers of the book and the characters surrounding Peter Parker’s world is that he’s always been like that. A comment here, a goofed up execution in heroics there, it all became too much to the point where I repeatedly kept dropping the book after disappointment being my only reward for giving it another chance.
Conversely, progression is one of the central themes Dan Slott has employed in his Big Time run that many of us are praising. The re-introduction of Peter Parker’s ingenuity, gumption and determination were welcomed along with Slott’s overflowing bucket of continuity references with open arms. This is what fans have said they want to see in Spidey’s comic: A proud acknowledgment of the past while Peter Parker ushers forth toward the future with the same characteristics as he’s always had.
For the most part. Kinda.
This issue has me at a crossroads in that I’m not sure if it is endorsing one aspect of Peter Parker or another. It all depends on how you analyze the plot. Essentially, the Psycho-Man is said to have been playing on the fears of Spider-Man, making him doubtful of his own capabilities and resentful that the other heroes don’t acknowledge it. This has all been revealed after we get most of an issue with Spider-Man constantly whining about being a teacher, not sure if he can hack teaching the Avengers Academy kids, and generally displaying a real lack of self esteem. But the idea, if I’m understanding this correctly, is that the Psycho-Man is behind it all.
I am not very familiar with the Psycho-Man. I do not know how much of his power is sustained for a long period of time, or if he needs to be consciously affecting people, or if he can just *POOF* out a spell and people will feel negative emotions or not. So the crux of the plot really hinges on how this works in the issue. Admittedly this is a fault of mine as a reviewer and a reader for not being familiar with the character, but then again it’s the fault of the writer (Christos Gage this time ’round as opposed to “Dandy” Dan Slott who’s apparently off working on Spider-Island) for not informing me of the guy in the first place.
That’s the thing with exposition in this title, it picks and chooses who, when and what to explain. It works to varying degrees as well. For instance, I know why and when Spider-Man lost his Spider-Sense, but it doesn’t hurt to inform new readers to the event whenever Peter thinks about it. Similarily, I appreciated learning who the Avengers Academy members were and what they could do as I’ve never read their books. Now I question why not indulging the reader with information on the Psycho-Man when everything was was all but spelled out. I understand that he’s a long-time F4 villain, and if he needs to be explained then why not go ahead and explain who Giant-Man is as well but it does present a definite problem. Without knowing what exactly the Psycho-Man can do, I’m left not really sure if Spider-Man was under his influence or not during the issue.
Consider ASM #658 where the child members of the Future Foundation talk about how much of a immature man-child Spider-Man is. That rings as so annoying off the mark that it’s a prime example of why I would repeatedly drop the title. I, among many other people, do not like being told in the story that our hero is a lame human being. Besides all the decades of stories and examples where he’s proven that he’s anything but, it also just rings as needlessly cynical, as though we need to like Spider-Man because he sucks or something. A lot of us must have missed that memo, but whatever, it’s in the issue and now part of the series.
Now consider the page preceding the Letter’s Column:
Praise is issued to Slott, giving the impression that Slott’s solo run on the title has resurrected it from a state of badness or plain blandness, or even just that his run is a lot better than those that have gone before him. Other writers don’t necessarily have to have bad runs for Slott’s run to be good.
But another interesting thing to note is a letter by one Ritchie Tiongson.
“I won’t go into detail about how much I hated the whole BND idea. It’s sufficient to say I’m one of those who hated it with my very soul…It felt to me like Peter had regressed…Then several months ago, I read a web article about Dan Slott taking over AMAZING and his ideas for Big Time. Everything in that article sang to me…My Spidey was back. I haven’t missed an issue since.”
This isn’t to suggest that Marvel wouldn’t print letters that would say anything negative regarding anything they’ve done in the past. At the same time it’s getting across the notion that Dan Slott knows the character of Spider-Man in ways that the previous writers off the past few years did not. And what’s being suggested along with that notion is that the writers didn’t get the character of Spider-Man because they wrote him in a state that was characteristically regressive to what is once was.
So in this issue, we have two sides of the same coin. We have a very self-doubting, angsty Spider-Man contrasted with a very determined, proactive Spider-Man. I love the way he takes down Psycho-Man, fighting through the fear and doubt because that’s exactly who he is. But as cool as that was, as much as I’d love to give Gage credit for writing Spider-Man the way I and many others want him to be written, it’s still very odd that this was presented to us as a Spider-Man who when acting like he has in the past BND era may as well have been acting under the influence of a mind-controlling super villain. It rings as dishonest to the writers who wrote him before, and while I would very much like to be under the assumption that every time Spider-Man has been written out of character in the past it was due to a super villain, the fact is that it’s not what Marvel wanted to get across to the readers. From the Breevort Manifesto to panels with Joe Quesada at conventions, we’ve been given the impression that Spider-Man is exactly what those writers wrote him as, which was less than favorable in the eyes of everyone around him in the context of the comic. Now he’s all of a sudden written to be above that. The problem is that while characters can be written in different ways by different writers, the fact that a story seemingl goes out of its way to portray one of those ways as false is just outright disingenuous to the writers that came before. Do you see what I’m getting at?
Getting into the particulars about the issue, I really liked the artwork by Reilly Brown. It was simple and clean, and I liked how he drew Spider-Man’s mask. It’s along the lines of how I approach the design of the mask in my own artwork and I thought he pulled it off better than I do. (which isn’t hard admittedly) As for the back-up, I liked it fine for what it was. “Just Another Day” is basically a ‘Nuff Said story and it was nice and entertaining in providing some vignettes about a day in the life of Spider-Man. Nothing incredible, but special in its own small way.
In first reading this issue, I was ready to really hate it due to the preview. After all, Spidey’s never had problems teaching kids back when he was a teacher, so why start now. I really thought Gage was going for an inexperienced, doofus Spider-Man. But with the revelation of why he may have been acting that way, I ended up really enjoying the issue. But going back and thinking about it, there is a very real cognitive dissonance in how Spider-Man is being presented to the masses and to the readers. I’m going to grade this issue a .5 less than what I would have liked to grade it purely on confusion alone. Hopefully it’ll all make more sense after the next issue.
3.5/5 webs.
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#92-George is absolutely correct. None of this is your fault.
And if anything, you got more readers. Well done!
SW
#93: Red and blue is the standard still, but Spidey has other options now, so they may be popping up in other books. I didn’t read the Avengers issue you’re talking about, so I’m not sure of the context.
SW
Comicfan: I’ve already won. Like I said: daylight is the best disinfectant. However, if you want to support and take part in anonymous, hateful, and untrue accusations, that’s your right I suppose. I just imagine a better world.
(I can understand your desire to be able to hurl insulting, unrtrue invectives and not be called out on them though. Bullies are usually cowardly and self-serving like that.)
(To address your other point, I’ve been actually here for months if not years. What can I say, I like Spidey fans.)
Anyway, can you imagine the anger and-faux-indignation people here would bloody their fingers typing if I projected as much anger and psychology about people here that I don’t know like these last couple posts? This is a real learning moment for some of ya.
SW
and to anyone who thinks us “Outrageratti” are being a bit rough with SW…As he’s so fond of saying, “we make comics, we don’t throw them at you.” In that light: We post comments. We don’t tell you to read them
@ post 79 “I grew up a fat, stuttering kid with a lisp, so childish taunting doesn’t work on me.”
Well that solves it. SW was taunted growing up. Fast forward a few years and he’s dropped the weight, scored a high profile job, amassed some Twitter followers, and has his picture show up in a Google search. It is obvious that he has become considerably more awesome than his previous, picked on, self. The result: he has great difficulty conceding to anyone, because that’s not what successful, awesome people do! Backing down is what a fatty with a lisp would do, afterall. I think post #83 speaks to just how mature and well-adjusted he has become as an adult. Well played, sir. Well played. And for those wondering, No I am not a Doctor (but I play one on TV)
In sum, he will never relent. These group therapy sessions are just too cathartic for him to abandon. Upon realizing this, these mega threads have become more sad than infuriating.
@ the review itself, which is the reason I keep coming back to this site despite all the tomfoolery (as entertaining as it may be)((and yes, I realize the first part of my post has only added to the tomfoolery)). I agree with the score provided by Don. The PSYCHO-MAN stuff initially left me feeling a bit underwhelmed. But upon reading the review and going back through the issue, I’m seeing things in a different light. Well done, and keep up the good work!
I can’t believe this insanity. Mr. Wacker you have been on this website arguing with people for weeks. what is wrong with you? Don’t you have any integrity or professionalism? You work for a major corporation and your on a message board complaining that people are being rude. Dear god man don’t you have anything else you could be doing then insulting your customers? How you think it helps the image of Marvel and Disney to come to this website and pick a fight with some random blogger is astounding to me. and that you keep arguing as if you will win something other than your own humiliation. Clearly you have been working as editor for to long and lost all perspective at your job. I suggest you take a vacation and consider a change in vocation.
I really enjoyed this issue, if they ever revive any of the satellite spidey titles I hope Mr. Gage gets to write it.
@SW: Is the FF costume SPidey New standart costume or is it the red and blue? Cause it seems he will be wearing the FF one in avengers tie-in to fear itself but he is wearing the red and blue in his own tie-in… This is a bit confusing…
@#78 – “I’m sorry to Brad and Donovan and any other reader for my continued support in letting these comments get out of hand”
No need to apologize – none of their back and forth anything to do with you.
Nice review.
For my money Academy is the best Avengers book on the shelves right now so I kinda enjoyed seeing Spidey interact with the kids. It helps that they’re characters he’s never met before (to my knowledge). The classroom scene grated a little though. Pete’s really gonna let those kids talk him into a corner like that? Aside from that though, decent issue.
The Sinister Six has a good showing in the latest issue of AC., too. Electro comes very close to murdering another kid. Spidey needs to take off the kid gloves the next time they fight or I’ll be severely disappointed.
I agree with #89. Did you read what I was responding to ?
SW
“Alright, let’s not get stupid here.”
Thanks, I agree that Mr. Wacker’s remarks about minorities were pretty uncalled-for.
Hopefully he can calm down a bit and recognize how inappropriate that was.
It was out of hand when (no offense to the poster who did it) critisized Steve’s sleep schedule. Can we all just chill the **** out?
Oh, just finger-quotes? I’m hurt, Stephen. Even Doctor Evil stopped doing that eventually.
Here, I like to be fair, I’ll give you another chance. In one paragraph, or less, please sell it to me that it’s a good idea for Peter continuing to be with Carlie. Or that it’s right that Peter’s response to this whole thing is ‘You got a spite tattoo? Let’s do it’. Or that you’ve made the right choice in allowing a children’s icon to get involved with an irresponsible, paranoid, selfish…Floating-Pair-Of-Glasses.
Sell it to me, Stephen. Please.
… yeah, this one’s getting out of hand.
Alright, let’s not get stupid here.
“I work with women, gays and people of color”
Are they some of your best friends?
I owe you 5 dollars.
SW
PS: Just to respond to Kevin Box’s minority shield, I work with women, gays and people of color who like the book (and even work on it). Now what do we do?
Brian: I behave with all the civility that I believe the matter warrants. Nice victim-blaming, though. And you’d be surprised about the cultural importance of teh pr0n, especially as its Venn diagram circle continues to overlap to an increasing degree with the spheres of supposedly serious political processes and more “mainstream” popular culture, but that’s a discussion for another time. 🙂
And part of the reason why I get so worked up over such a silly comic book, to the extent of investing more mental effort in examining it than Marvel’s staff obviously expended in writing or editing it, is because entertainment, especially that which purports to be about HEROES, does indeed feed our senses of our values and ourselves.
In some ways, I’d actually be LESS offended if the myriad unfortunate implications brought up by the current Marvel crew’s inept storytelling were actually consciously intended, because at least then, even if I disagreed with the worldviews that they were promoting, it could still be a self-aware debate on both sides, whereas the attitudes that Dan Slott and his peers in the “brain trust” have demonstrated, with regard to the attitudes that unconsciously saturate their portrayals of women and race, are pretty much the definition of unexamined straight white male privilege.
If you’d bothered to read the comments in the one blog post to which I invited Wacker, you would have seen women and gays and people of color expressing (all in VERY civil ways) how much Marvel’s modern standards of storytelling and audience interaction are HURTING those would-be fans, from Norah Winters’ racist jokes at Michele Gonzales’ expense (a “rice and beans” and “ensalada” line? REALLY?) to the casual slut-shaming of Carlie Cooper implying that any woman who has a “tramp stamp” is indeed a tramp.
How I behave off the clock is very different from how I behave on the job, and indeed, another reason why I go by a handle is because I don’t want people to think that my personal opinions are representative of the newspaper that I work for. The problem in Wacker’s case is that, because he’s using his name, he’s not really off the clock, just as I was never really off the clock back when I was still serving in the military, because if your name is tied to the organization that you work for, then what you say while choosing to use your name becomes an act of public relations for your organization, whether you want it to be or not. That’s why I stopped using my name in discussions in which I express divisive opinions. And if Stephen Wacker was simply posting as “S-Wack,” and not mentioning which comics company he works for, then I might still get into arguments with him, but he’d be just another poster. To be honest, I don’t think it’s good for either comics fans or comics companies to interact too much with each other without some filters.
“So, you may not have started it this time… but way to keep perpetuating it.”
I didn’t start it EITHER time, then OR now. And I don’t hold with those who say “I don’t care WHO started this fight,” because that’s nothing more than an excuse to criticize someone for daring to respond when someone else attacks them. It’s how NON-anonymous bullies, who use their positions of power to throw their weight around, get away with continuing to start fights, over and over and over again.
That being said, I won’t be replying to these reviews again, because it’s clear that I could say ANYTHING and Wacker would use it as an excuse to derail the discussion, so from now on, if Wacker decides to troll another review thread on the Crawl Space, he won’t be able to blame anyone but HIMSELF for his own participation. I’ll bet you 10 PayPal dollars that he’ll behave just as badly in future threads as he does here. Hell, for another $5, I’ll even bet that he’ll still find a way to mention my name, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.
… And with that, I’ll depart from this thread.
(Another $5 says Wacker can’t resist getting in the last word.)
Wacker at least deserves props for having the basis for this issue start 2 issues previous. This issue was a fill-in, as slott is not involved, but at least by having the psycho-man set up it gave a cohesive feel to the book.
I liked that.
@Stephen Wacker
“I wasn’t in a pissing contest. I think I said it was a good review in my very first post.”
And if you had just stopped there, we wouldn’t be HERE.
Brian,
Good post. I actually have printed critical stuff like this in the comics (with less foul language), so I’m not particularly scared or ashamed of it, though I know not everyone shares my taste. Most fans I encounter do have a better sense of humor than some of the angrier folks here, but I understand that passion is the currency here. Again though, we’re just making comics, not throwing them at you.
In terms of the Kevin back-and-forth, I’ve always believed daylight is the best disinfectant. He contributes not only some tasteless accusations but downright incorrect information under the guise of a know-something, (which he’s quite clearly not when it comes to my field). I know he’s desperate for me to go to his website, but we both know that’s a sucker’s game. I grew up a fat, stuttering kid with a lisp, so childish taunting doesn’t work on me.
He’s clearly a smart guy, so I’m not sure where the deep resentment and anger comes from, but it does seem to follow him from place to place and has led him to getting kicked off of one site after another apparently.
Anyway, some good points. Thanks for adding them.
SW
buddy… i am not referring to your blog as a whole (although covering the world of adult entertainment seems fascinating and totally necesary, but thats your bag, whatever) I’m referring to one “entry” in particular: your current one (yes i checked out the link and thats as far as I got becase from what i’ve gathered of it and you, it’s just an outlet for your anger at the world, perhaps I’m being close minded and need to look deeper) in which you call out Steve Wacker in particular. Glad to see that the only lesson you got from running afoul of that person in real life was to just hide your name, not try to act in a more appropriate, civil manner.
So, you may not have started it this time… but way to keep perpetuating it. I don’t really care where it all comes from, I find the way you guys are conducting yourselves as immature, unnecessary and an inconvenience to any reader that wants to come to this site for valid, honest discussion about the comics. As a writer for a newspaper, I would like to think you would handle yourself better, and the same can be said about Wacker who is a professional editor. If any of this nonsense you guys engage in were to make it into your paper, or into your comics, I’d find it very unprofessional. And I think it’s a shame that just because this is an online site, you seem to think the review, the site or its visitors don’t seem to deserve the same respect you’d give to your legitimate job, by continuing with this offensive and pointless banter.
Good to know that you, as a real person, can understand the seriousness of that tattoo and Carlie’s psychoness, but can’t separate a comic world from reality enough to let the tattoo story be what it is. A fictional setting which holds no water to the real world and will not matter a year from now. The story happened, and served its purpose as a plot device and character development, as poor as it was.
I’m sorry to Brad and Donovan and any other reader for my continued support in letting these comments get out of hand, but I hope I speak for more people than just me, when I ask for the silly little fueds to end so we don’t need to sort through all these pointless comments which are best suited for a messageboard. I’ve gotten enough out of this review and thread that I won’t bother replying and hopefully we don’t need to deal with this again in the next review.
Brian Bradley:
“why else would you have a blog entry solely devoted to attacking the guy on your site”
False. My blog is devoted to a wide variety of subjects, as anyone who’s actually taken the time to read it would already know. My displeasure with the current Spider-Man run is certainly one of them, but you’ll also find extended commentary on other fandoms, political subjects and the adult entertainment industry. The posts about my personal life tend to be private for the same reason I tend to use a handle online — I wound up running afoul of someone who disliked my online commentary enough that they did their best to do some very real damage to my offline life.
“you know for a fact that your attempt to lure him to your own site was going to start something…”
Actually, I had indeed mistakenly believed that I could persuade Wacker to talk about the problems that he has WITH me TO me, on my own blog, so that nobody else in this thread would have to read stuff that was irrelevant to the subject of Donovan’s review, and the only reason I’ve bothered to reply to it here since then is because that ship has already sailed.
“your faux sympathy for derailing Donovans review seems pretty lame when you got what you wanted all along which is the attention of Wacker.”
Except that I already had the rapt attention of Wacker, because in the reply thread for the Crawl Space review of Amazing Spider-Man #659, in which I did not post A SINGLE REPLY, Wacker name-dropped me and linked to my blog DOZENS of times. By his own admission, he is already a regular reader of my blog. Moreover, because I’d included two links in my first reply post to this thread, my first reply was still screened when Wacker posted his own first reply, so he hadn’t even seen my own reply before he felt the need to derail this discussion.
“I think the problem is that Peter isn’t around to see those crazy psycho moments all the time so he’s not aware of all of her issues like we are since we are the omnipotent reader.”
If a girl whom I was dating told me that she’d seriously considered getting a tattoo of the man who a) murdered my former girlfriend, b) was an abusive father to a guy whom we both considered a best friend, c) cuckolded his own son behind his back with a woman who was like a sister to her and d) is now regarded as a combination of Hitler and bin Laden by the public at large, the words “but I didn’t go through with it” wouldn’t even be able to get out of her mouth before I kicked her out of my life and changed all the locks, and I don’t care HOW drunk she was.
I suppose I should thank Wacker for continuing to link to my blog, even though he’s only doing it out of the inarguably incorrect belief that outrage actually drives UP sales in a post-Internet era in which reading (or watching, or listening to) a given piece of media does not require BUYING it, as any teenager with access to Google already knows, but which remains a mystery to all the middle-aged men in comics and other old media who can’t even manage to release their products on an online platform without screwing it up worse than Fredo Corleone trying to return fire after his dad got shot in The Godfather. But then, I suppose as long as he can continue to attack me as the messenger, he can still sleep soundly at night ignoring the truths that I and many, many others have repeatedly tried to tell him.
@ 66
He was never really an Avenger, even in the 60’s. He was a, we’ll-call-you-in-case-all-the-other-Avengers-are-dead, type of member.
Come on, the Avengers are Thor, Hulk, Iron Man…Spidey isn’t in their league. He fights bank robbers in Manhattan.
Steve, I wasn’t refering to your thoughts on the review or a pissing contest between you and Donovan… I was referring to the back and forth between you and K-Box… you linking to his blog in a sarcastic manner again is exactly what I’m talking about. It serves no purpose other than to further frustrate him and fan the flames.
@71 Deadwalrus – I think the problem is that Peter isn’t around to see those crazy psycho moments all the time so he’s not aware of all of her issues like we are since we are the omnipotent reader.
I wasn’t in a pissing contest. I think I said it was a good review in my very first post. Some of you should learn to own your behavior.
Kevin Box, you have been as always hatefully entertaining. I can certainly see why you’ve been booted froms so many websites. Hopefully you can last here as it seems you’ve built up a solid following among the Outrageratti. (and for what it’s worth, I understand your embarassment and not wanting to use your real name. Good luck on your vile, and easily mockable performance art. Please don’t throw me in the briar patch!)
Hey! if any fine Crawlspacers havent signed up yet for my demise, be sure to visit:
http://box-in-the-box.livejournal.com/506762.html
Tell ’em Wacker sent ya!
SW
PS:And sorry “DeadWalrus” you’re on your own. Good luck in “class”.
Dear God this has gotten awful… let’s not act like K-Box is innocent in all this when he seems to thrive off the back and forth between him and Wacker just as much as Steve does… it’s all about attention at this point… why else would you have a blog entry solely devoted to attacking the guy on your site… and why in hell would he bother posting there when he knows the angle you’re getting at. “Again, my very first post in this thread was intended to preempt a Wacker derailing, but …” you know for a fact that your attempt to lure him to your own site was going to start something…
I enjoy the fact that the editor of the comic feels he can come and communicate with the fans (even if its not always in the best manner) but its obvious that this is just a massive pissing contest between the two of you… your faux sympathy for derailing Donovans review seems pretty lame when you got what you wanted all along which is the attention of Wacker.
Hopefully with the next issue we can just stay focused on the content of the comic and the review itself cause this is out of hand.
@63-I very much disagree wholeheartedly, but God bless you for making your case.
@68-No worries, it is viscerally entertaining to see spirited converastion sparked from something I’ve written, even if it derails 😉
@70-Glad u liked the review and appreciate your take on the title..!
Oh, and as long as you’re reading this, you wouldn’t mind answering my question – can you explain in five or less sentences the advantage Peter Parker has – both in terms of character, and as a fictional entity – in going through a relationship with a young woman who shows worrying signs of being mentally ill and seemingly has no important character attributes than a pair of glasses, as opposed to being married to an emotionally stable, strong young woman whose physical appearance has been consistent in every portrayal of her since her creation?
As a comp. lit student and hopeful writer of comic book fiction, your response would be most appreciated.
Um, wow. I really haven’t seen a thread like this for a while. I’d just like to say I really liked the review- thought it raised some good points on Spidey’s portrayal. I definitely prefer seeing a confident, capable super-hero as I got into comics through the Spider-Man films (also making me partial to Peter/MJ). I enjoy the team ups, always have done, they usually allow for a lot more wacky stories. From what I’ve seen of Slott’s run I don’t mind it but Carlie I tend to skim over- find her a bit boring (and as an artist I do find the inconsistency a little grating). She feels almost like a Mary-Sue to me. Changing colour hair (and eyes…?) *cough* (I joke) Spider Island I am looking forward to though.
Stephen, you seem to have a problem with identity. You sarcastically asked whether you should turn yourself in, then claimed that K-Box had threatened to report you. You’re not him, okay Stephen? You’re not. You don’t seem to have any of his talent at persuasive or argumentative writing, and you never sound as mature.
Enigma_2099: I didn’t review Amazing Spider-Man #659 either, but Wacker found a way to turn the reply thread of THAT review into a moratorium on me as well. It’s a tactic known as “derailing” by those who engage in constructive debate, because it’s the last resort of someone who knows they can’t actually argue their case based on the facts, so they have to distract you with logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks.
Donovan, I am so, SO sorry that all of this drama distracted from your fine review. Again, my very first post in this thread was intended to preempt a Wacker derailing, but …
Waitaminute… K-Box didn’t review this comic… WHY IN THE HOLY HELL IS HE COMPLAINING ABOUT K-BOX WHEN HE DIDN’T EVEN REVIEW THIS BOOK?!?!?
What, did he insult your mother or something?!?!?
@63
If spideys the last guy the avengers should ever want on his team then why did they try too recruit him way back in the 60’s during Stans original run when he had just entered college?
Id agree he works better as a solo hero than on a team(atleast not a permanent member of a team) but certainly not because he can’t hang with them, because he deffinetely can and has been able too for decades.
The Critics…..hahahaha haha ha…Have….ha haahahahahahaha
hahaha hahaha heh heh hee ha ha…Spok….ha ha ha hahaha….
no, wait, I’ll….ha ha hahahahaha … catch ….ha ha ha ho ha ha…
my breath….ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…!!
George: thanks for the clarification. I’m reading between the lines a, bit but I’d imagine this guy is a bit of an embarrassment.
Kevin Box: Ha! You are correct that I will not join your blog. I’m not that stupid and I don’t go to places run by anonymous bullies. (I also wont come over to your house for dinner, so don’t ask! ) Please keep up you dissertations on my job expectations and the threats to inform authorities, though, as they make me laugh.
Ratpack: Sorry you aren’t digging the book. The stuff you want probably isn’t going to happen the way you want as Spidey’s relationhips have progressed a bit and Pete isn’t as
Green” as he was in the 60s. However, we have a couple projects coming up with a younger Spidey that might interest you more.
SW
Something is going very wrong in the Spider-man universe lately and I’ll will tell you what it is.
Before let me say, that in general I liked the direction Spidey has taken since Brand New Day under Stephen Wacker’s reign. This has been the most interesting period since the 80’s. I totally supported the ending of Peter’s marriage (just not the way it was done, but that is a different matter and probably mostly Quesada’s fault. ((So important that the chief himself must handle it))).
The tendency I didn’t like lately can be seen in this Free Comic Book Day issue: the tendency to turn Spidey into a sort of proffesional superhero, an Avenger, a FF member or as Madame Web calls it “a warrior”.
No.
Guys, you are ruining what you have tried to restore since Brand New Day. Making him younger, turning back the clock, bringing him back more towards his teenge roots.
The essence of Spider-man’s character is his ‘not kowing how to’.
What made Spidey so popular as a character? ‘With great power comes great resposibility’? No.
Guilt ridden be cause of uncle Ben’s death? No.
What made him popular was his attitude of taking on a lot more than he can realistically handle.
Whatever Spidey get’s himself into, must always be way over his head.
He is not a Superhero ( a Superman ), he is at best a Superhero apprentice. He was never a Batman, a Captain America or a Superman. He is just a kid who wants to do the right thing, but doesn’t really know how. One day full of himself, the other down on the floor.
He is just not the type for a membership in the Avengers or the FF. Jesus, people he is the last guy on earth they would chose for membership.
Go back to the origins of Spidey. Of course he wants to be a member of the FF and of course they reject him.
By turning this around into a Superhero that is sought after by Superhero groups, you totally damage the character, more than a marriage could ever do.
You try to counterbalance this by making him look like a jerk when he is an Avenger or FF member, but that doesn’t help Spidey believabilty or the group that accepts such a guy as a team member.
Spidey must always be a guy who tries to come to terms with his powers, never really sure how to use them, never really sure of himself, never really sure of his place in life, in the world.
To keep this impression, inspite of decades of continuity, is THE CHALLANGE of writing Spider-man.
What’s funny is, Wacker could have just asked me personally about my association with Crawl Space, over on my blog, where I’d already invited him to discuss things with me precisely because I didn’t want him derailing the reply thread of yet another Crawl Space reviewer, but I guess that was going to happen whether I said anything or not.
But yes, to anyone who’s reading this, it’s exactly as George said; I’m just another non-mod poster who’s glad to be here, and glad that George and the rest let me be here.
K-Box is not affiliated with the site other than being a member of the forums and someone who reads/follows the site. He’s not a moderator or admin and he’s not on the podcast.
Honest question…is K-Box a moderator here? Or part of your podcast crew? He seems way more hostile than even the norm has become here. I assume he’s just off on his own, but he also seems like he could be one of the main player here as well.
(I’ll even unashamedly admit he’s even making Berryman look charming).
SW
@55 Heh. 8)
i liked this issue, thought it was the best one since the opening bit time arc. I thought spider-man was actully funny instead of a lame immature man-boy and more of a witty spidey. I must say i may have missed the motive of Psycho man ? i didnt reely understand what he is trying to accomplish in the long run, here, but i dont really no a lot about him in the first place. i thought the art was good.. and overall not a bad story.
Nice review btw, i this 3.5 is a fair mark.
Ha…that was pretty funny.
SW
Two-Bit Specialist: You win this thread. I bow down before you. 🙂
Oh, wow. Stephen Wacker put a link to K-Box’s LiveJournal. Does that mean he condones everything that is said there?
This sounds horrible.
This is certainly pretty serious stuff for sure. Maybe I should be arrested?
SW
And my perspective as a writer (for a newspaper, not comics) is that Wacker spends way more time online than I do, and the amount of time that I spend online is already increasingly limited by shouldering a considerable number of professional responsibilities that I nonetheless do not doubt are far fewer than those that he shoulders as part of his own job (because if there’s one thing I’ve learned as a writer, it’s that your editor works even harder than you do). If I’m so irrelevant, he shouldn’t even be able to remember that I EXIST, especially since the ONLY places that I post about Spider-Man are 1) my blog, 2) my board and 3) here on the Crawl Space. And yet, in the nearly 200-comment thread of replies to Gerard’s review of Amazing Spider-Man #659, Wacker exhaustively went through my blog and culled out all the quotes he could find (not just in the posts themselves, but also in the replies to them) that he found objectionable. It’s not even arguable that he’s obsessed with me, because he proves it by constantly name-dropping me and linking to me and quoting from my blog. And yet? Even after I specifically invited him to do so (in this case, because I’d actually hoped to prevent precisely the sort of conversation-derailing to which Wacker has nonetheless subjected Donovan here), he’s consistently refused to say those same things to me on my own blog.
My perspective as an editor (of a law journal, not comics) is that the things that “keep me up at night” are stuff that’s along the line of accidentally making more article offers than we have the page count to accommodate without shuffling something into another issue where it doesn’t fit the theme, stuff like that. I have a feeling Wacker is the same way and he’s just goofing around with us.
CrazyChris: Check out the time stamps between two of Stephen Wacker’s posts:
May 19 at 12:00 a.m. and May 19 at 6:25 a.m.
Even assuming that posting on this thread was the last thing he did last night and the first thing he did this morning (and boy, wouldn’t THAT be sad, if it was true), that still means that Spider-Man editor Stephen Wacker is so devoted to shouting down the fans online that he’s getting about six hours of sleep a night.
Even if you think it’s silly to suggest that online comments could “haunt” him, something sure is keeping him awake late at night, and given the editorial snafus for which Dan Slott has already thrown him under the bus (IE. Slott blaming Wacker for him and Hickman writing two completely different accounts of Spider-Man joining the FF), he’s obviously not skimping on sleep because he’s doing his JOB.