AMAZING SPIDER-MAN # 659
- Writer: Dan Slott (story), Fred Van Lente (dialogue)
- Penciler: Stefano Caselli
- Inker: Stefano Caselli
- Story Title: Fantastic Voyage Part 1 of 2
More of Spider-Man with the FF. What happens? Go behind the cut to find out!
Plot
The Future Foundation heads to the island where the Fantastic Four first faced off against Dr. Doom. After avoiding a fight with the locals the FF head off towards a mountain with a skull carved into the top of it. Meanwhile Carlie goes out drinking with her friends because she is mad at Peter and decides to get a tattoo. Back on the island the FF fight zombie pirates and discover a mysterious portal. Ben tries to become Blackbeard again but messes that up pretty good and the fight continues. Valeria and the other kids arrive to help just in time to see Sue reveal that the real villains behind everything are…the Sinister Six.
The Commentary
This is another issue that falls under the category of, “not the type of story I want to see in Amazing Spider-Man.” I won’t go into all of my feelings on the subject again because I have done that in the past several reviews I have written but the feeling is still there. I’ll leave things at the usual if I wanted to read Spider-Man’s adventures with the Future Foundation I would go read FF and move on with the nuts and bolts of the issue.
I think the biggest problem I had with this issue is that once again a writer, in this case Fred Van Lente, has just about every character in the book either making witty pop culture references or just saying humorous things. It reads like the script to a Kevin Smith movie. The opening scene is a good example of this. Everyone, including Reed, is popping off one-liners. It is distracting and worse doesn’t allow the characters to have their own voice. I can see Ben cracking wise because, well, that’s how Ben rolls but it doesn’t work for Reed and Sue. I also took exception to the little dig Van Lente made at the initial meeting between the FF and Dr. Doom. I don’t think he was being disrespectful or anything like that but at the same time the, “Not a euphemism, by the way…He actually had a freaking tiger,” line felt out of place. I am going to use a phrase I normally dislike seeing in reviews but it is the best way to describe how I feel about the situation…it feels out of character and doesn’t work for me.
I will admit that I liked Spider-Man’s reaction to hearing that there might be pirates. That made me smile.
Then there’s Carlie. Carlie has been a problem for me for some time now. On one hand I have nothing against the character and I really kind of like her. She is an interesting match for Peter and I dig that she brings in the whole CSI angle to this title. There is a lot of potential there for her to be involved in Spider-Man’s world as well as Peter’s. Part of me has trouble with her because of how I felt about the marriage being done away with. I like Peter and MJ together so any other woman is going to irk me. I try to put those feelings on the back burner when writing these reviews because…well, it’s like the whole other heroes being in this book all the time thing; I don’t want these reviews to become repetitive.
Taking all of that and more into consideration I didn’t care for the Carlie scenes in this issue. They just bugged me. Is it realistic for a woman scorned to go out, get drunk with her friends and do something a little crazy because she’s drunk? Yeah. I’ve seen empirical evidence that such a thing does indeed happen. I just didn’t like here. It felt clichéd. The Goblin tattoo thing was a little much too mainly because it was added for audience shock value. That idea seems genetically designed to make the reader go, “Ooohhh, she’s getting a Green Goblin tattoo to get back at Peter and she doesn’t know that the Goblin is Peter’s arch enemy AND the man that killed his first great love.” The whole idea is forced and it would have been nice to see Slott and Van Lente go in a different direction than, “We’re a bunch of girls going out and having a good time because men suck.”
I also felt the shot of Carlie taking off her shirt and giving us a nice look at her bra was unnecessary. I might feel differently if these sorts of shots hadn’t become so prevalent over the last…well couple of decades now.
There was one element of the issue that I was quite happy with. I like that the Sinister Six is back. The Scooby-Doo line delivered by Sue was annoying but the reveal itself was quite cool and led to a solid cliffhanger ending. It didn’t make me like the rest of the issue but it did make me feel slightly better about the story as a whole.
Parting Thoughts
I didn’t really care for the Ghost Rider “fueled” back up. I did, however, get a kick out of the two page Infested preview or Stage One or whatever you want to call it. I like it when writers take real world events, like the bed bugs outbreak, and use them as part of the plot of a super-villain. Part of me thinks I shouldn’t like that sort of plot device but I do. I also liked the art over these two pages, but I am a fan of Barry Kitson so this makes sense. While the whole Spider-Island thing strikes me as a bit silly in concept I hope the execution changes my mind.
2.5 out of 5 webheads.
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I hope Ock has a good reason for instigating this particular encounter. Teleporting in to fight the entirety of the Future Foundation seems like a losing proposition to me. I do hope they give a good accounting of themselves though.
@#32
It’s the one thing that makes sticking with New Avengers kinda tough for me. The only saving grace is that so far, they haven’t included any of his other “baggage” in the book.
And a “Feliz Navidad” to you too! ^_^
Steve,
I can understand that seeing people constantly complain that Spider-Man lives in a vacuum and that he doesn’t appear anywhere else but his own books might be a tad frustrating. Heck, I can seen fans on the Internet being frustrating in general as we tend to bitch about…well…everything. I honestly feel bad for those on the creative and editorial side because civil discourse is all but gone and everyone seems to be circling each other like the greasers and the socs in the Outsiders. So I can kind of “feel ya” on that one. The thing is that going in the polar opposite direction isn’t the way to address those complaints. For my money (less the ten percent discount I get at the comic shop) I would rather see ASM focus on Spider-Man and his particular world and then see him in the team books and participating in the big events as a way of keeping him alive in the rest of the Marvel Universe.
@29 Enigma_2099 agreed on why bring on a character of Spidey’s stature only to have him be comedy relief? It was one of the reasons I dropped the book, that and it really has to be exceptional for me to stick with a team book. My collection is littered with starting and stopping team books. My Spider-Man runs are super tight, but my FF, X-Men and Avengers titles have gaps all over the place…
Oh, Feliz Cinco de Mayo!
Hola Steve!
Unfortunately for you I am a real father that teaches his children to discover the world around them with open eyes and an open mind. I even still read them ASM. We are currently on Gerry Conway’s excellent run. They love it and at the end I always ask if they liked (or disliked) the story and why, never telling them my perspective…but why bother with facts when there is conjecture about!
As for me, I seldom guess the upcoming stories since I rarely get them right. Stillanerd on the other hand is the master of guessing future stories…and well his track record speaks for itself. Thanks for confirming the team-up concept, I thought I had read that in the past and recently our pal Stillanerd had hypothosized that may be why so many team up offerings of late, and to me from my disadvantaged perspective, sounded plausible.
Thanks for once again for taking time out from your hectic schedule to set one fan straight!
PS: You have me confused with someone else. I do not recall complaining about Spidey never appearing in other books, since that is silly since he was consistenly in the Avengers. My criticism was a lack of consistency in BND. New concepts (many I thought were pretty good…) were being introduced, but when the next brain trust story came on, those concepts would be ignored and it would take months later to get back to it…thus losing cohesion and consistency…hope this helps!
I miss the days when I enjoyed ASM…but I am hopeful you will correct all that…
Spider-Dad, if you are really a dad, I hope you aren’t teaching them to be so self-righteously indignat and closed to facts as you seem to be. As you suggest, I’m probably just making all this up to win a fake-outrage debate with an internet ghost.
Although you’ve made it clear that you and Stillanerd know better–what with having no information– the fact is there was never any plannig for a Team-Up book beyond Dan and me talking about the idea of it once on the phone. There weren’t even plans–that I knew of anyway, though I’m sure you have better intel–for Johnny to die and Pete to join the FF.
Since there haven’t been any other proper “team-ups” in the book so far, its possible you formed your criticism ahead of time and are just pushing reality to help fit what you know in your heart to be true, but “I bet some deniability is forthcoming”
I know the unpresecedented move to have the FF guest star in 3 (!) issues of Spider-Man is almost too much to bear, but my hope is the character can survive such horible and diabolical planning!!
Then again you’ve already discounted anything I have to say.
SW
PS: I miss the days when your and Stillanerd’s complaint was that Spidey never appeared anywhere but ASM so therefore everyone at Marvel must secretly hate the book!
@#28
“For several years now, when Spidey appears in other books, most notably in Avengers, he is often portrayed as the comedy relief only and does not bring much to the table.”
And when that practically defines his whole existence on said team, why make him a member? Sure his presence would drive sales to an extent, but so would writing a good book.
@23 Donovan, you hit the nail on the head on how ASM feels like it is in a bubble and the inconsistencies between the books and tone. However, I don’t think this is a BND only problem. For several years now, when Spidey appears in other books, most notably in Avengers, he is often portrayed as the comedy relief only and does not bring much to the table.
As for all the team-ups, I think Stillanerd’s hypothesis is correct. Approx. a year ago it was revealed in several interviews that Dan was cooking up a Spidey team-up book for Marvel’s consideration. Instead of going that route, they assigned him to ASM. So Stillanerd is thinking many of those original team up concepts are just being applied to ASM instead.
I think Stillanerd is probably right…but I doubt anyone “in particular” will give say that is true. I bet some deniability is about to be forthcoming.
@25, @26 ***LIKE***
No it’s cool, I’m actually really glad than we can just agree to disagree. Civil discourse at last!
Donovan, I guess we’ll just have to disagree.
Thanks for the comments though.
SW
#5 that too had me laughing out loud. they introduce Spidey as the Human Torch. “Yeah, thats exactly who I am”
“One of the most constant criticisms we received about the past couple years (even here) was that people felt like the book was existing in a bubble and not taking into account the rest of the universe. So to a certain extent widening Spidey’s world is defintely on purpose. Dan and I both felt from the get go that we wanted Amazing Spider-Man to feel like one-stop shopping for the Marvel Universe.
Within that though, we’ve worked to make sure each story arc is really about Pete and something he’s going through or his relationship to the heroes (For instance the AvAcad arc later this month focuses on Pete dealing with his past as a teacher and in the fact that he’s not really one of the kid heroes anymore.). Books like Avengers and FF usually take a sligtly dfferent story path and don’t deal quite as personally with Spider-Man. ”
I can legitimately see the perspective going on here, but IMO the disconnect stems from the tonal shift when reading any other Marvel comic and reading Spider-Man. People feel the stories are not set in the same universe because the characters are written in a different way than every other character from any other Marvel book. Basically, many of us feel that nothing is taken seriously for the most part in order for the books to come off as “Classic Spidey”. Many feel as though nothing is of real consequence as a result of the character’s overtly sarcastic voice. It’s remniscent of Stan Lee, but Stan Lee was 50 years ago. George Berryman, your bestest pal here on the Crawlspace, makes a great point whenever he says that too many characters are competing for jokes. Spider-Man should always be the funny guy in the room, not everyone else. And he shouldn’t be funny because he’s pathetic.
When we do get serious arcs like Grim Hunt, people feel that it’s overcompensating with the murder of Mattie Franklin and the heavy violence. The best Spider-Man stories, in my opinion, are the ones where the tonal shift can happen on a dime in the middle of a story depending on the situation. It reflects reality, something Spider-Man has always and should always try to do when going about his business.
the goblin tattoo was stupid. stupid,stupid,stupid. love the derby action!
Stephen,
Thank you for answering my question. I can see your point, and will admit the team-ups can be fun when they aren’t back to back (I will admit I’ve never been an FF fan).
I can see why you’re trying to show Peter is part of a wider universe, but I liked the bubble. Different strokes I guess.
I will just ride these arcs out I guess, I’m looking forward to the up coming Mr. Negative arc, he’s been a great addition to the rogue gallary
Mom? That you?
@#18
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back there, buddy. Now back to people whose opinion I actually give a damn about. George, Mike… I’m THERE already, but how may teams do they have to stick Spidey on before it finally reaches Wolverine-levels of nonsense and you just say enough’s enough?
Tom, my opinion is probably obvious since I put the books out. I like ’em!
One of the most constant criticisms we received about the past couple years (even here) was that people felt like the book was existing in a bubble and not taking into account the rest of the universe. So to a certain extent widening Spidey’s world is defintely on purpose. Dan and I both felt from the get go that we wanted Amazing Spider-Man to feel like one-stop shopping for the Marvel Universe.
Within that though, we’ve worked to make sure each story arc is really about Pete and something he’s going through or his relationship to the heroes (For instance the AvAcad arc later this month focuses on Pete dealing with his past as a teacher and in the fact that he’s not really one of the kid heroes anymore.). Books like Avengers and FF usually take a sligtly dfferent story path and don’t deal quite as personally with Spider-Man.
Amidst all the set-dressing, the ASM is still about the life of Peter Parker and how he deals with being Spider-Man.
Thanks for asking!
Oh and Enigma…i don;t think anyone’s biting. Your star may be falling.
SW
It’s a shame Breevort or Brennan don’t comment on the front page. I got some reviews that need some love, too.
This is getting redonkulous.
Nice review Mike.
@ Steve
Well…you did a really good job editing the first part of 52.
God, I suck at this insulting thing.
And I thought Spider-Man was about making the world safe for delicious Hostess fruit pies and Twinkies. Those ads are in continuity, right? Or did the deal with Mephisto erase those too?
@#13
Good luck getting a straight answer out of him…
… and nice spellchecking there, Wacke. But we’re not gonna have a repeat of persian_spider. I’m not throwing my posting privileges away because of you. If I have to put up with you, you have to put up with ME.
E2099
Hey Stephen,
While your here, I was just wondering what your opinion was on the number of guest starts we’ve had in the book lately? I personally don’t care for it, as this is the only Spider-man title I would like the stories to focus on Spider-man. I think the odd guest star could be fun, but we’ve gone from Avengers, to FF and then the academy kids are next. Like Mr. Bailey I feel that if I want to read a Spider-man team book there is already a lot to chose from, and would like Spider-mans only book to be more Spider-man, no more Peter Parker related.
Can someone help Enigm? He’s being forced to read the internet.
SW
Oh god, here we go again…
Bailey, you walk funny.
Also Spidey has always been about about “youth”.
(Hope that helps)
SW
I call it “Cuddles” and it loves it some Crawl Space.
The only time I get that many comments is if someone insults me and then George unleashes the freaking Kraken.
Good job Mr Bailey. Will you be offended if you don’t get 150+ comments? 🙂
Michael, nice review. I have not read or picked up this issue, (will wait when it hits the bargain bins) but I like the way you framed the situation with Carlie. I would agree that the situation with Carlie is not stacked in her favor. Replacing a fan favorite, saddled with a manifesto that corners (or dooms) the relationship and a constantly changing look to her hair, glasses etc. can make it challenging to like her. Plus, the constant commentary that “she is so perfect” for Peter, but is shown being pretty unbalanced at times, (this issue and #647 for the guilt trip in dating me routine…).
If this is a way to show she is “real”, but also “right” for Peter, I don’t get it. Of course, I am still not convinced she gets the GG tattoo. My bet, she gets a tattoo, but would not be surprised it is changed to something else, like perhaps even Spider-Man. Wow, think of all the hijiinks that would ensue…Peter would be jealous of his own tattoo!!! (Cue the laugh track…)
I pretty much agree w/ the review, but I’ve got to say I loved it when the Freedom Foundation was being introduced incorrectly and The Thing was called “The Incredible Hulk”…that coupled w/ Ben’s reaction was funny. Probably my favorite part of the book.
Good review Bailey. I enjoyed the issue much more than you did, but I appreciate the way you wrote your review and explained the reasons why you didn’t like certain aspects. We agree on the Sinister Six showing up at the end, can’t wait to see them wreak havoc next issue!
“I agree… makes Spidey’s wisecracking less special.”
I’ve pointed that out on the podcast a lot, too. Humor in Spidey works best when it’s Spidey playing for the laughs and not *everyone* in the book.
I agree… makes Spidey’s wisecracking less special.
Nice review. Good point about everyone getting one-liners too.