AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #651
“Big Time, Part 4”
Writer: Dan Slott
Penciler: Humberto Ramos
Inker: Carlos Cuevas and Joseph Damon
Colorist: Edgar Delgado
“The Sting That Never Goes Away”
Writer: Dan Slott
Penciler: Stefano Caselli
Inker: Stefano Caselli
Colorist: Edgar Delgado
Cover Art: Humberto Ramos and Edgar Delgado
Variant Cover Art: Mark Brooks
Be warned – there are SPOILERS ahead!
The Plot
Spider-Man and the Black Cat infiltrate the Fisk Building with the aid of Spidey’s new stealth costume. After cutting the cameras in the lower levels, Felicia abandons Spider-Man at the first sign of trouble to go loot Fisk’s office, leaving Spidey alone to fight the Hobgoblin. Using the abilities of his new costume, Spidey manages to hold his own against the Hobgoblin until the reverbium begins to react, causing the building to vibrate and begin to crumble. Meanwhile, the Black Cat is captured by Fisk, but the building’s condition worsens. Spidey saves the Black Cat and Hobgoblin saves the Kingpin, but Montana appears to fall to his death. The Hobgoblin officially becomes Fisk’s right-hand man and seeks out the Tinkerer for some weapons upgrades. Phil Urich provides more footage to The Daily Bugle, scoring a “date” with Norah and a paycheck bonus. Peter gets a new apartment in Tribeca and goes to a fancy dinner with Carlie, May, and Jonah Sr., basking in his newfound success.
In the backup story “The Sting That Never Goes Away,” Mac Gargan receives a new Scorpion suit from Alistair Smythe. After a brief walkthrough of Gargan’s powers and some motivation (namely, they both have a grudge against Jameson and want to see him suffer), Smythe unveils his other lab experiments, other insect-based supervillains that have been upgraded similarly to Gargan.
The Good
After setting up a big finale in the last issue, this installment delivers on the promise. There’s a battle between Spider-Man and the Hobgoblin (and ninjas!), and legitimate peril due to the collapsing building. There are consequences, power shifts, and even the possible death of a longstanding Stan Lee / Steve Ditko villain (although the Disney-esque circumstances of his death leave a very large amount of wiggle room to bring him back). Elements introduced earlier in the arc such as reverbium, the new costume, etc. are all utilized to some degree in the final battle, which effectively closes the loop on these story points and allows them to be put to rest for now (for the most part … more on this later).
Slott continually drove home the idea of Peter as the scientist in this arc – to the point of annoyance, in fact – but this issue showed the payoff to that development. Spider-Man’s battle with the Hobgoblin was essentially a tech-fest focusing on the abilities of his new costume. He overcomes the Hobgoblin’s technology by shielding himself from the sonic scream and destroying the flaming sword, and he uses his new gadgets to buy some time by neutralizing the reverbium. (Again, though, there are drawbacks to be discussed shortly. A pattern is starting to develop here …)
Although I don’t care for Ramos’ art, I need to take a moment to give special recognition to the coloring of Edgar Delgado. Everything from the subtle glow of Spider-Man’s costume to the intensity of the flame is rendered beautifully. Hobgoblin’s sword literally leaps off of the page thanks to Delgado’s balance of cool and warm coloring – flip through the pages and get a brief glimpse of each, and you should notice what I mean. Great, great work by an undoubtedly overworked colorist.
Overall, it was a fast-paced, action-packed finale to the arc – a classically-structured Act Three like you would find in an action movie. That’s a plus in my book.
The Bad
However, the majority of this issue irritated me for a number of reasons. I’ll try to discuss as many of them as I can.
For starters, the final battle between Spider-Man and the Hobgoblin ends on an unsatisfying conclusion – Spider-Man doesn’t beat the Hobgoblin. Rather, the Hobgoblin flies away to escape the crumbling of the building. In fact, it’s later implied that the Black Cat’s bad luck powers actually influenced this outcome, so it’s debatable that Spider-Man even had any impact at all. Hell, Black Cat takes up more space on the cover, and she’s in the center. Maybe this was supposed to be a backdoor pilot for a Black Cat series?
Speaking of the Black Cat, I really didn’t care for her in this arc. Once again, she abandons Spidey for personal gain, and once again, Spider-Man is left being the sucker. Then, they throw in some rope-around-the-neck action for the S&M freaks out there, and she immediately devolves into a damsel in distress. Not only did they set the character back by 25 years by making her like this to begin with, but they also manage to send women in comics back to the Silver Age by turning a strong chick that can handle herself into the helpless damsel that needs to be saved. It’s like the early Fantastic Four issues all over again! Seriously, you could make a game out of it by removing the dialogue in half of the Black Cat panels and daring people to come up with dirty captions. Here are two you can practice on, kids!
Despite the fact that they keep telling us how brilliant Spider-Man is, none of it is actually shown on the page. For example, Spider-Man keeps wondering why nobody can hear him after HE ACTIVELY USES HIS SUIT TO DISTORT THE PROPAGATION OF SOUND WAVES AND PREVENT PEOPLE FROM HEARING EACH OTHER. That’s like turning off the lights in your living room and then wondering why you can’t see anything. He’s also completely thrown for a loop immediately after the fight begins because the Hobgoblin’s scream is at a slightly higher frequency than before. Why didn’t he build some sort of frequency modulation into the suit? It seems a little silly to not have some flexibility built into the suit’s primary function, doesn’t it? Plus, when you consider the obvious Black Cat double-cross that everybody saw coming, you have to wonder what Spider-Man was thinking half the time.
Peter basks in his newfound success at the end of the issue, but I really wonder why. Let’s review. (1) He fought the Hobgoblin to a standstill, but the Hobgoblin escaped. That’s a pretty large, unresolved problem. (2) The Kingpin is still in power. In fact, he’s arguably more powerful now that he has the Hobgoblin as his right-hand man. (3) He directly contributed to the destruction of the Fisk Building. Without a central location to operate out of, the Kingpin is suddenly more protected than ever, because he can operate in secrecy at an unknown location. (4) He just bought an apartment in Tribeca. If he’s only been working for a week, how can he afford this? Remember, he was literally penniless as recently as five issues ago – moving into the city’s most expensive neighborhood probably isn’t a good idea when you’ve just started a new job. (Incidentally, it’s also one of the whitest neighborhoods in the city. I guess when they say that Peter Parker is the “everyman,” they really mean “every WHITE man.”) (5) All of his Spider-Man stuff is locked in Horizon Labs. If somebody snags Carlie Cooper and takes her to the middle of Times Square to murder her ass (please, make it happen), what’s he going to do? He’d have to take the subway to Horizon Labs, fish out his equipment, and then web-swing over to Times Square and hope that Carlie’s head is still connected to her body. Remember: he has no Spider-Man paraphernalia in his apartment at all. Yup, he’s hit the big time all right!
I should briefly mention the backup story. It wasn’t bad per se, but why are these subplots being segregated from the main story? A good writer should be able to integrate the ongoing subplots into the main narrative instead of shunting them off into a corner like this. Also, did we really need to bring back some of these characters? If my eyes aren’t playing tricks on me, that last splash page shows such legendary, classic characters as The Thousand and the Charlotte Witter Spider-Woman. Because you demanded it!
Oh, and don’t even get me started on the Tron joke and the Tron cover. I guess it’s a small world after all!
The Ugly
Um … what? Did you guys just try to cover your asses by comparing Big Time’s use of porn jokes to the social implications of the classic Stan Lee / Gil Kane drug trilogy? Wait a second, I need to slam my head on my desk.
**WHAM**
There’s a pretty big difference between a significant social issue like drug abuse – one that Stan Lee was specifically asked by The Office of Health Education and Welfare to address in the pages of his comic books – and casual pornography jokes. One is a revolutionary, important moment in the history of comics, one that shined a new light on a major problem plaguing the American population. The other is porn. But I guess I’m wrong … Peter and his aunt joking about porn is as groundbreaking as the drug trilogy, apparently. Thank God we have people like Steve Wacker and Dan Slott blazing the trail for including pornography in comics.
In no way is this a cock-up. They wouldn’t want to dick around like that, forcing lies in our faces. I might think that it’s just junk, but they’re spraying our faces with thick, juicy truth. We’re all a bunch of boobs, swaying back and forth on the topic. The real thrust of the scenario is that, as readers, we need a good blast every once in a while to wake us up. We’re not getting shafted here – rather, we’re getting what we badly need, and we should just take it.
The Bottom Line
I’m already growing increasingly irritated by Slott’s run, not because it’s terrible, but because it’s so thoroughly frustrating to see all this potential regularly squandered by bad execution. This is another “not terrible, but certainly not good” issue, the likes of which won’t be winning me over anytime soon. 2 out of 5 webheads.
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This is the most sextist, pig head, disrespectful review I’ve read yet. I’m not joking, and I’m not being funny. This was utterly dispisable. you should be ashamed of yourself gerald. It is otterly offensive to sit there and suggest, that just becuase there something around someone neck that their first thought are “Oh bondage! let me get the lotion and tissue!” but even more deploriable and stupid is what you said next. to sit there and suggest that just becuse filica got caught and was in trouble, that it and I quote “SET WOMEN IN COMICS BACK TO THE SILVER AGE!” it absolutly sexist. what if it was a male superhero had been caught, would it have been okay then. it just a stupid thing to say and I was otterly offended by it. I expect more.
That’s funny… there was a post over at CBR that showed several pages from the books that would probably explain things better than I could. No, I didn’t say it was in there, but those pages man… good lord, those pages…
Spidey/BC falls under S&M… not rape, get it right. Not necessarily perverse… but it IS kinda kinky… who wouldn’t be into cosplay?
Well, you make your assumptions, and I’ll stick with mine.
@Enigma_2099
The Shed things wasn’t rape….never would have crossed my mind that it was if not for this site, but either way there was no way that was intended to be taken that way nor would it have even made sense.
Spider-man and Black Cat together was two consenting adults….that doesn’t fall into the category of perverse or rape and is not something uncommon in other all ages media.
I’ll give you the Chameleon thing though, I had actually knid of blocked that one out but yeah, I didn’t buy that it wasn’t implied they had sex.
It didn’t come off as a joke, it was written as a criticism of this story, which seemed silly to me.
@CRM
So you’re just going to pretend that SHEED/hotel sex with Black Cat/ Chameleon “cuddling” with Michelle/etc. didn’t happen. Okay. Least I know where you comin’ from.
As for the S&M… again, I THINK Gerard was just being humorous. And just look at the pics up there. You can see why he made that crack.
… and we’re not even bringing up the fact that she always wears skintight black leather…
I think it is clear that they are not comparing the drug issue in 1970 to the porn jokes in the Big Time arc…..the point was that these kidn of jokes are more commong in kids programs and movies (it’s true btw) and while 10-20 years ago you might not have seen these kind of jokes in a Spider-man book, it’s not nearly as controversial today and certainly won’t seem so in the future….much like while having drugs in a Spider-man book was controversial back in 1970, drugs in comics today are not controversial and are actually commonplace. No where does it say anything to suggest that they have the same immplications or importance, it was just the most memorable example of something that was controversial in the past but is not today, and honestly I think everyone knows that and it was just thrown in to start controversy in the comments section, which it did.
Also, what is with you guys and coming up with rape and S&M stuff in these books all the time? I don’t see these kind of thoughts or reactions on other sites or from other people I know who read these books. It either means you are trying way too hard to come up with something to be controversial or it speaks more to problems you have yourself with how your percive relatively harmless things like a character who has since the 1960’s used a lasso on people suddenly being S&M.
“There. I’ve done all I can, Mr. Wacker. The rest I leave to you.”
That’s actually a very dangerous thing to do. Especially with Wacker not knowing the difference between the reaction to an important drug story to the reaction to a bad attempt at sophomoric humor.
Well I’m confused, great review though. Looking forward to the Scorpion arc featuring a circus of insect villains.
#39 I think a better use of our time would be asking Stephen Wacker for a job
Brian, you’ll get a private message about this from the mods, but basically some of us have just been pretending to feud for a couple months to get people talking.
@Brian Bradley
Because of comment #20 and so on. Look above that one… was anyone saying ANYTHING about him befre that?
@Stephen Wacker
Actually I’d love you too if you’d just go ahead and put it in there. Hell, get a three-way going with Pete, MJ, and Carlie and I’d actually consider buying another issue!
But why stop there? Promise me a full scale orgy with all these potential love interests you keep dangling in front of the boy’s face, and not only will I consider picking up the book again, I’ll even give you a wet, sloppy kiss!!!
Uhhh, I’m assuming by the tone of your comments that you’re familiar with sarcasm…
And as for “those” you speak of, I’ll see what I can do… *AHEM* Attention ye misinformed… There is no REAL porn in the Spider-Man books. Just crass porn-ish humor and pseudo-implied lizard rape. Gerard was just being sarcastic in his own humorous way. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
There. I’ve done all I can, Mr. Wacker. The rest I leave to you.
Wait wait wait… since I’m new here you’ll need to bare with me. is this the for real Stephen Wacker? If so why are we attacking him? I mean, all is fair in love and blogging but it just seems like a pretty intense way to treat a visitor, especially one closely associated with everyone’s favorite wallcrawler.
“On the other hand, he knows how to play to the audience here…which I sincerely commend him on.
SW”
This line made me laugh! Too true!
Bring back Montana! Otherwise great issue
It’s all a big cover up, Fred! Believe nothing!! There’s never been a worst Spider-Man editor! (We actually agree on that point)
@Enigma I agree the reviewer was being sarcastic, but it’s pretty clear there are people here who believe we show porn in our comics. (though they will all now act like they never thought that at all!)
I love you anyway, though.
SW
“he said we were “blazing a trail” for porn in our comics. Which is pretty obviously untrue”
I know what HE meant. That’s why i said that he was trying to blur the issue. The issue Gerard was talking about in his review.
Thanks Enigma_2099 for info though:)
“Fred, your anger for me is nothing compared to the way fans got/get mad at other editors.”
For me to be angry with you, i have to actually care about what you have to say, which i actually don’t. I’m more fascinated with that denial act you play when you are trying to cover up your mistakes and that hate you have for this site. So much so for you to get so angry over a review and to manage to bash this site at the same time.
“I was a reader during Shooter’s run.”
Good for you, has no bearing on this Issue however. But nice try in trying to blur the issue again to cover up your mistake.
“This is nothin’ compared to that!”
You can say that again.
“I’m kinda disappointed actually.”
Disappointed with what actually? You editing skills or your uncanny knack to cry victim when you can’t defend yourself.
Whatever Steve, take it easy.
@wacker
“@Fred: he said we were “blazing a trail” for porn in our comics. Which is pretty obviously untrue (it’s silliness along the lines of we were showing rape in Spidey comics–which I know many of you believe).”
Actually, I believe that he was being sarcastic. Show of hands if you think so as well…
Fred, your anger for me is nothing compared to the way fans got/get mad at other editors. I was a reader during Shooter’s run. This is nothin’ compared to that!
I’m kinda disappointed actually.
SW
@Way too angry people:
I’ve seen some of the reaction from the drug story and even spoke to Stan about it, so I’ll just stand by what I said.
I do think though that Stan’s drug story was more important than Dan’s little joke, though, so perhaps we agree on that — if you can bring yourselves to bear agreeing with me. (Water? Wet?)
@Fred: he said we were “blazing a trail” for porn in our comics. Which is pretty obviously untrue (it’s silliness along the lines of we were showing rape in Spidey comics–which I know many of you believe).
On the other hand, he knows how to play to the audience here…which I sincerely commend him on.
SW
I appreciate the support, but let’s not waste time and effort on this guy
So true:) Pretty sad that we have to have that opinion about a editor from Marvel.
@Javi Trujillo, Enigma_2099, and Fred: I appreciate the support, but let’s not waste time and effort on this guy. 😉
Whoops, two typos:
“Since you asked… I hereby approve the reviewer giving his opinion. So, yes, I have allowed this.”
Wow, how impressive of you. Especially when you felt the need to bash this site ever so slightly because you did not agree with it.
“Since you asked… I hereby approve the reviewer giving his opinion. So, yes, I have allowed this.”
Wow, how impressive of you. Esoecialy when you fealt the need to bash this site ever so slightly because you did not agree with it.
“And sorry about my gaffe. I saw the announcement thread of all the new reviewers and figured this fella was new. Makes more sense now that I think about it.”
No problem, after three years of badly edited books, i’m not surprised at all by that mistake.
“Can you believe how bad and nearly pornographic the book is? Crazy! Why, in my day..etc etc”
Nice way to deflect the fact hat you can’t tell the difference between an important drug story to a bad attempt at humor.
“to be fair, he did not say there was porn in the book, just a reference to it, which is not in the same class as pointing out the perils of drug use.”
Steve knows the difference, he just trying to blur the fact that he made a major mistake on the letter page. Not surprise by this, that’s Steve for you. Comparing a important drug story with a message with a bad attempt at sophomoric humor.
It’s nice to know that people look to you and your reviews as a basic summary of the whole site in general, isn’t it Gerard?
@Stephen Wacker
I don’t believe that at ALL… In all honestly, when have you EVER commented on anyone else’s reviews? I must have missed that…
to be fair, he did not say there was porn in the book, just a reference to it, which is not in the same class as pointing out the perils of drug use.
Fred: Since you asked… I hereby approve the reviewer giving his opinion. So, yes, I have allowed this.
And sorry about my gaffe. I saw the announcement thread of all the new reviewers and figured this fella was new. Makes more sense now that I think about it.
Anyway, back on topic: Can you believe how bad and nearly pornographic the book is? Crazy! Why, in my day..etc etc.
SW
I’ve never seen iCarly. Does the main character wake up with someone in bed after a nite of apple juice drinking, too? Or breaking into a honeymoon suite?
“@Wheatcakes, Fred, and Mustached Avenger: This is absolutely NOT as bad as OMD or BND”
Well that’s a matter of opinion. Great review however and I’m always glad that you’re are fair and honest with your reviews.
“I do like the new reviewer though. Very over-the-top and keeping with the site’s general demeanor. Good casting.’
So he can’t be honest with his opinion Steve? You have a problem with that? I love the subdue bashing of this site Steve. Can’t wait for that victim act of yours to kick in when someone mentions that fact to you. You can turn around as always and cry that we are bulling you.
@Wheatcakes, Fred, and Mustached Avenger: This is absolutely NOT as bad as OMD or BND — it’s just slightly below average, as I have stressed repeatedly in my closing comments for each review. Sure, that’s not saying a whole hell of a lot, but it’s a start! You guys should give it a try and see if there’s enough to keep you interested for the short term.
@Stephen Wacker: Nice trolling. I’m the same reviewer as before. 🙄
“Thank God we have people like Steve Wacker and Dan Slott blazing the trail for including pornography in comics. ”
Just so it’s clear that the reviewer is more than a little bit theatrical, there was no pornography in the comic. That would be silly. There’s nothing innuendo-wise in Spidey that you don’t see on an episode of iCarly.
I do like the new reviewer though. Very over-the-top and keeping with the site’s general demeanor. Good casting.
SW
I still need to pick this up, but it looks like I’m setting myself up for a dissatisfying conclusion. Sigh.
This story was worse than one more day to me, mostly for the death of the original hob goblin. I’m just happy it’s over. Now I can’t wait for them to ruin scorpion. yay.
Just picked it up, not very good, just as bad as BND in my opinion. in some cases, its worse.
Big time has been consistent and fun. Something that BND had problems with because of multiple writers. This arc = win.
Honestly, after reading Loners and the original Hobgoblin story arch, I’m actually enjoying the direction of this new Hobgoblin. Or maybe I’m just desperate to enjoy Spider-Man again since dropping the books when BND hit.
I…can’t believe that Mr Wacker actually thought that was an intelligent and legitimate response. This book is brutal. RIP Spidey, 1963-2006
@Jonny: I was just winging it. I don’t like to go into reviews half-cocked, but I needed to stand up erect and embellish my post with bold. tight strokes.
The ending with everyone out at dinner didn’t sit well with me for some reason, either. I think overall I liked it a little more than you, i enjoy the parallel between Pete and Phil a good bit, but i agree with your assessments on the negative. Also, talking about a ‘back door pilot’ for Black Cat and porno all in the same article? Forget the comic, I don’t think this review is age appropriate. Is it stating the obvious to say that it looks like Jonah Sr is could wind up being an unfortunate victim in the near future?
I enjoyed Big Time and look forward to the Spider-Slayer storyline up next. As for your comments about Spidey wearing his new suit and forgetting that people can’t hear him, I chalk it up to Spidey doing his usual banter and forgot that folks around him couldn’t hear. He’s been wise-cracking for so long, it’s like second nature. Reminds me of the time I lost my Red Sox baseball cap and it was on my head the whole time! 🙂
The line “spraying our faces wth thick, juicy truth” had me in stitches.
I agree with the review on some things, others are just nit picking. So what if Peter lives in a all white place. I do too.
Uh oh… another dissatisfied review… watch your back, hoss.
New suit, and he STILL can’t win a decisive fight. Take the Amazing off his name. At this point, it’s amazing that anyone still considers him a hero.
More Carlie… JOY![/EXTREME sarcasm] Honestly, this is starting to make me hate Quesada’s niece, and she doesn’t even deserve this… I haven’t even MET the poor girl!
Ramos actually draws a pretty mean Kingpin. And I STILL loved him on Crimson.
And why bother bringing back ANY letters page, if all you’re gonna do is cherry pick reader responses… THIS GOES FOR YOU TOO, DC.
To me, Black Cat’s character seemed to suddenly change out of no where from the end of the previous issue and the beginning of this issue. She went from willing to help Spidey and was liking his new costume to dissing his “Tron” costume and then ditching him in the middle of everything that was happening.
I did like how the costume worked in this issue and especially how Peter used a different form of spider tracers containing anti-metal.
As someone who’s not familiar with Phil Urich that much, has he historically been such an obvious “Bizarro Peter Parker” as he’s presented here? He has an undated version of Peter’s old job (selling footage of himself to the unsuspecting Bugle), he’s desperately trying to date the Bugle girl, he hopes his Uncle Ben is proud of him, and the inside-out quote “with all these responsibilities comes some much POWER!” makes it all-the-more obvious.
Not that it’s not a clever inversion, but it seems to come out of nowhere. Am I wrong in that?
I had fun with the arch, but I agree with everything you say. It just bothered me to a lesser extent.
I also like the ‘evil Peter Parker’ development in Phil Urich (I haven’t gotten around to reading anything else with Phil in it yet, so it’s all I know about the character).
And I’m glad the letter column appeared in the ugly. I’ve hated the letter column in this comic for so damn long….
Nice review =)
*porn talk*
NO mention of smoking…but pron talk is okay?? And then to top if off…compared to Stan’s powerful drug abuse story!!??? huh??? hahahahahahaha This to be taken serious by them??
Man they really butchered Felicias charatcer, and Peter seriously has all of his spidey stuf at Horizon? All of It? Thats really not wise for a number of reasons. Also what is with Wackers comment at the end of that letter about an editor vp stealing ideas behind his back? While its probably a joke it litterally seems to come out of nowhere rather than a natural flow from the letter he was responding too.
Is that porn talk a quote from some movie I’ve never seen? I wanna say orgasmo……
Anyway nice to get a review, I’m not thankful I didn’t sign up for this arc…I was almost considering it.