AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #650
“Big Time, Part 3”
Writer: Dan Slott
Penciler: Humberto Ramos
Inker: Carlos Cuevas, Victor Olazaba, and some other dude
Colorist: Edgar Delgado
“The Final Lesson”
Writer: Dan Slott
Penciler: Neil Edwards
Inker: Scott Hanna
Colorist: Morry Hollowell
Cover Art: Humberto Ramos and Edgar Delgado
Be warned – there are SPOILERS ahead!
The Plot
In the untitled third chapter of Big Time, we pick up straight from last issue as the Hobgoblin has Spider-Man dead to rights. However, some timely intervention from one of Peter’s co-workers saves him. Hobgoblin escapes with a sample of Reverbium and brings it to Wilson Fisk, leading Fisk to hire him. The remaining Reverbium at Horizon Labs is destroyed. Peter asks the Black Cat to steal back the sample taken by Hobgoblin. Phil gives Norah video of his Hobgoblin activity, but she doesn’t react as he had hoped. Carlie and Mary Jane visit Peter at Horizon Labs. Black Cat interrogates a criminal from the goblin cult, but he feeds her information that the Hobgoblin ordered him to. Spider-Man shows up to help her in his new costume.
In “The Final Lesson,” Mach-5 (formerly the Beetle) arrives at the Raft to discuss the case of Mac Gargan with Professor Folsom. Over the course of the short, we learn a bit about Gargan’s condition before the truth behind Professor Folsom is revealed – it’s really Alistair Smythe in disguise! (Smythe killed Folsom earlier.) Smythe kidnaps Gargan and brings him to a secret lab, where he promises to make “improvements.”
The Good
Once again, I’m impressed with the formula that Slott is using to tell this story. He has managed to weave in a number of characters and subplots without making everything a chaotic jumble, crafting a meaty read. Everything ties together in some form or another, but they remain distinct enough to be interesting in their own right. For example, the Phil/Norah subplot ties in to the main Hobgoblin story, but it also exists on its own in the periphery. This style of storytelling is one of the more enjoyable facets of Big Time to date.
Peter’s new job at Horizon Labs is really starting to gel. He feels RIGHT in this setting, and Slott has really made an effort to integrate it into the story as fluidly as possible. We’re also beginning to see some differentiation amongst the other Horizon employees, which is certainly an improvement over the vanilla TriCorp crew. Bella gets so much face time in the issue (and even the recap page!) that I honestly wonder if she’s being set up as a potential love interest.
The Bad
Unfortunately, though I like the formula that they have laid out, the actual content of the story fails to deliver on a number of fronts.
For starters, Slott and Ramos go to great lengths to make Spider-Man look like an incompetent idiot around the Hobgoblin in order to justify the existence of his new suit. It’s absolutely for story reasons, remember – it’s just a coincidence that he’s now wearing a very Tron-like costume the same week that Marvel’s parent company is releasing a Tron movie. It’s not contrived at all! Spider-Man has two “fights” with the goblin in this issue, the first of which is a continuation of last issue’s cliffhanger. In both, he easily gets his ass handed to him by somebody with little experience as a supervillain. It’s the common “make new character look badass by having him/her whale on a superior character” trope, and as I’ve discussed before, I absolutely hate it.
Speaking of things I greatly dislike, the Carlie/MJ scene was pretty appalling. For starters, Mary Jane is played to be a complete idiot, from nearly revealing Peter’s secret identity to being incapable of even making out the words the Peter and Carlie are saying. The more annoying thing, however, is how Carlie is suddenly capable of discussing advanced harmonics and wave propagation with somebody on the level of Peter, who at various points of the arc has been labeled a “genius.” Again, Carlie is played as somebody so perfect and special that it makes me want to gag.
Phil/Hobgoblin is written to be very shrill and annoying. I get that Slott wants to call back to the early, giant-ears-and-broomstick days of the Green Goblin with his portrayal of Hobgoblin, but it comes across as forced wackiness. That’s a persistent problem when he’s such a large part of the story, both as the main villain and with an additional civilian subplot. He also creates a black hole of logic in the story, forcing other characters to act in ways that defy reason. For example, Ben Urich sees his nephew at The Daily Bugle and makes note of his suit, and Phil makes a vague statement about his well-paying job. However, Ben never asks him what that job is, nor does he even seem concerned that Phil has suddenly become a big spender. I don’t know about you guys, but if I started walking around in fancy suits and talking about how much money I was making, everybody I know would be up my ass 24/7 about it until I filled them in on all the details.
The backup story was a little weak. It wasn’t bad, but it really didn’t do anything for me. Much of it was simply recapping Gargan’s recent development, which is old news for someone that’s been reading the whole time. It’s a nice primer, I guess, for the upcoming spider-slayer story (assuming Gargan plays a large part), but as a standalone story it’s not very compelling. The art was good, at least – which is more than I can say for the main story.
The Ugly
Pop quiz: what’s the point of the following two panels?
That second one in particular is perplexing. What is she trying to do, exactly? If she’s trying to lay low, it’s kind of counter-intuitive to stick your ass so high in the air. If she’s trying to get a good vantage point to watch below, why is she hunched over like that instead of just crouching in place?
Oh, right, it’s just more gratuitous cleavage shots. Silly me, trying to apply storytelling logic to this.
The Bottom Line
This issue is the weakest of Big Time so far – it doesn’t leave much of an impression or inspire a sense of anticipation. 2 out of 5 webheads.
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Actually, I think that the scene of the Black Cat taking a milk bath would be far more sexy if her pet cats weren’t hanging around and drinking the milk she’s bathing in. I mean, aren’t baths supposed to be hygienic and sanitary? :p
@matisleonhart: Oh, then it’s probably a good thing I spent several paragraphs discussing the weak points of the story … 😛
@Gerald Yes I am, becuase it not the Fanservice that make the Book horrible, it the Bad story. I get it okay, you and other member hate fanservice, but me and other on the crawlspace enjoy it. All I’m saying is I’d like to see fans opinon on the book be more about the story itself then weather it has fan service. Casual fans don’t care if there one or two panel that have fanservice in them, they want to know if the story is good. that all I’m saying
Lest someone starts complaining that we’re always negative, even though this was an okay issue to me, I did find some parts that I enjoyed. Spidey saying he preferred Hoggoblin’s screech to Lady Gaga was funny. Pretending to be working in his underwear with the music way too loud was a good alibi for something he had to come up with in 2 seconds. Seeing Peter hard at work with his new invention was great. The introduction of the neon suit was cool, and I want to see what it’s capable of doing. And I enjoyed the back-up. I really didn’t expect for Smythe to impersonate Folsom. It was also a good idea to keep this part of the storyline separate from the main event.
Of course, I wish writers would stop portraying Mach-V like a chump, but that’s a different issue.
@matisleonhart: Of course YOU would be defending this blatant fanservice … 😆
Thats deffinetely milk she’s bathen in, water isn’t white so its not that and what other substances could she be bathing in thats white….if you have a really dirty mind please don’t answer that. I actually wonder whose idea the milk thing was since we know Slott does the marvel method. Did Slott say make her bathe in milk or did he just tell Ramos to draw a sexy scene of Black Cat, or just say Black Cats in this scene and leave the rest to Ramos?
@Johnny
I was only referring to the milk bath part with regards to it being borderline pornographic and seeing more on the travel channel….the other scene does seem to be drawn simply to show some cleavage….
…and I can’t stand Humberto Ramos’ style.
An embarrassment of riches…
That could be, I do have a very dirty mind after all.
Even with my dirty mind I would rather see a t+ on this, to everyone that says this is as bad as every other comic the vast vast majority of them (if not all) are rated t+, then the whole problem I’d have is the whole gratuitous nature over good storytelling.
I Think your looking too much into it if you see her doggystyle Johhny, I just see someone peering over the side of a roof.
WHat? Sex sells? didn’t know that….
And regarding the Travel Channel, I’m pretty sure you don’t find woman hunched over doggy style for no reason on that channel, I could be wrong though
If the scene wasn’t that bad then Gerard and Two Bit specialist wouldn’t off had spectators saying ew or have to explain themselves to people. Do I have a problem with the scene personally? No, how can I not, I’m a grown 23 year old man who appreciates the female body, I just think it’s unbelievably gratuitous and has no place an 9 and up rated issue of Amazing Spider-man, if this was in it when I was 9 years old (which was when I started reading spidey) my parents would not have been pleased.
I have no problem with the milk bath scene but i do have a problem when they put that in to cover up the flaws with the story and the writing, which was the case here.
Simply put Sex Sells.
I have no problem with the scene Wolfie, I was making a joke about how everyone is complaining about it. I actually agree with you, CRM, and Tom Winstone.
@Johnny
Uh it’s far from pornographic, if you don’t like it, fine, but you see more watching the travel channel….or reading comic books since this scene shows about as much as you see when most female characters are wearing their costumes.
@ Matisleonhart & Jonny
I must be really desensitized. I found this scene with Felicia pretty tame. But then that’s just me. I could see how a few may be offended by it though.
–Wolfie
@CRM Look at those breasts, its practically pornographic, there’s plenty of respectful ways to depict her in the milk bath
I actually thought this was another very good issue. I find it funny that everyone is going on about the Black Cat scenes in the milk bath, I thought it was kind of funny. There’s really nothing wrong with it. The second panel in there, yeah, I agree that seemed unnecassary as it seems to be a bit forced. Still, not nearly as big of a deal as it’s made out to be, it’s two panesl of the book and 9 year old boys probably liked them just fine.
The one thing I really didn’t like in this issue and agree with in this review is the Carlie-MJ scene. Why do they have to keep putting them together in akward situations like this? I really don’t want to see Carlie and MJ together around Peter anymore. Well actually I just don’t want to see Carlie anymore, but I know thats not gonna happen.
If it wasn’t milk it could be water. My cat was given fresh water every day, but still drank the dirty water from the plant pot. Apparently for cats dirty water tastes better.
I’m afriad I disagree.
I think this has been the best issue of Big Time so far.
The Good: Peter was being Peter. Which is a big point winner in my book. The making himself look a fool to cover for a Spider-man escape is classic, and good fun. I can’t help but thinking that Max gave away more than he intended to by coming into Peter’s lab. If he can do that, what’s stopping him from going into the “secure” vault. I think Peter’s inventions are going to make their way into bad hands. Spider-man vs an army of evil Spider-man! That could be a lot of fun.
I liked the Black Cat scenes, the cat’s cradle as an alternative to webbing was a good idea. And I don’t mind the milk bath, it was quirky. The crouching did give me pause for thought as it looks very strange though.
All the subplots are moving along nicely, and I like that Phil has unknowingly stolen Peter’s money making idea.
The Bad: New costumes aren’t my thing. I like the Red and Blue, I get the impression this is about new toys and accessorsys than key story points.
I like you, felt the MJ vs Carlie thing was silly. In my own life I find its the situation in reverse. I have a girl best friend I mind meld with the way Peter and Carly do, and my girlfriend sits and watches with no interest. Similarly my girlfriend has no interest in my work, and I don’t really understand heres. Still I know who I love and who I treasure as a friend, so seeing the Peter/Carly/MJ scene differ from my own experience was jarring, your milage may vary. Also Ramos draws an awesome MJ. I’ve thought that since Death in the Family.
Overall I think I would have enjoyed this just the same if Peter had just invented something that could have been added to his red and blues, surely ear plugs could have defeated the hobgoblins laugh track *shrug*, but it looks like Peter will be back in Red/Blue by the next arc, and this is still better than the last year of BND .
@Matisleonhart Thats because very few of us are actually reading the comic so have no right to comment on the writing
Am I the only one that find it funny that most the comments here about Felica “Fanservice”? Yeah, it not the bad writing or condeluded story itself that make it bad guys, it the Fanservice(Sarcasim)! *Sigh* I guess the Comic Fandom really is doomed.
@Jonny – Ditto. I did know it was something Cleopatra did, like Wolfie suggested, and I have even seen it a couple of times on TV, usually from characters who are filthy rich and are the eccentric type (which the Black Cat, being a jewelry thief, could probably do on a regular basis). I just never heard of any real person doing that in this day and age.
Of course, the problem is the same. You know something’s wrong when you feel dirty reading an Ages 9 and Up comic.
@crazychris – I bought the issue to my shame, and it is milk. It even has the cats lapping the milk. I thought the whole thing was more of a Catwoman thing, but not Black Cat.
As for the “coincidence” of the suit? Of course you’re right. “Back in Black,” anyone?
Although, after the spider-armor reveal, this one actually looks a lot better!
Still, why not just bring this one back?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081221010136/marveldatabase/images/thumb/6/6e/Spider-armorfirst.jpg/250px-Spider-armorfirst.jpg
Think I have a 12 inch one around here somewhere (shut up, you perverts, I already made that joke.)
I’m gonna echo a complaint that Berryman had a while back… when was the last time Spider-Man had a DECISIVE victory in a fight? Seems like as of late the only way he ever wins a fight is due to dumb luck. What’s so AMAZING about that?
BTW, that’s either milk, or those cats have no god d*** sense. Check and see if she has a dog drinking from the “throne” while you’re at it…
@ Wolfie I know, when I seen this I google milk bath to ensure myself that this was “normal”
But there are a lot more respectful ways to depict Black Cat in a milk path that aren’t borderline pornographic, that is my main problem.
It isn`t the cleavage that`s really messed up about the second panel. It`s that Felicia is clearly in the doggystyle position. I won`t go into more detail than that.
@ Thrawn
I guess she has a bit of Cleo complex or is just into ancient bathing rituals LOL. Never did that myself…though I did try a tub of jello once.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-milk-bath.htm
@ Berserkfury819 & Two-Bit Specialist
Same here. The dialogue about MJ not “getting it” was too painful to read. I’m pissed off on MJ’s behalf.
Thrawn, I came to a similar conclusion based on the same evidence, but it is too sick to be true. Can someone who has read the issue please confirm that it is in fact water and put my troubled mind at ease?
@Wolfie – G-G-G-GIRL!!! 😉
Anyway, as I said on the boards, I correctly predicted the three parts in this issue that would cause ire and rage: Peter in his undies, Felicia in the milk bath, and the Peter/Carlie/MJ conversation.
That last one was painful to read. I don’t know how anyone can read that and not figure out that it was meant to make MJ look bad.
@ Wolfie
I know that some women use milk on their skin, but I’ve never known of one to draw up a tub full of milk and actually bathe in it. I’m looking at the scan again, and she’s up to her chest in milk.
@ Crazy Chris
I’m not sure, but the color combined with the drinking cat leads me to believe it’s milk.
Seeing those two panels elicits a “You know… for kids.” (from the Nostalgia Critic) in my head.
I am so sick of the MJ bashing.
As weird as it sounds some of us women use milk to exfoliate and sooth our skin. I don’t bathe in it myself but I use it on my face just before I do the final wash and skin toner.
I’m guessing Felicia is using it for the same purpose.
–Wolfie
The best part of this issue was Jon Wilson getting a letter published.
Let’s hope it’s milk! 0_0
i hope those who are not impressed with these Cat panels (and I’m one of them) are not the same people who scoffed at the mother who objected to the T&A panels in the ASM at her child’s library. Bathing in milk? All ages book? Sheesh.
i… think… shes… bathing in… milk…, jeezus
Wait, is that actually a milk bath or just really poorly colored water combined with an unfortunately positioned cat making it look a whole lot like milk?
you guys are just clutching at your pearls before fainting ! 😉
That wasn’t just you, Gerard. I was reading my issue at home when I flipped to that page with Felicia in the bathtub. My family asked me what the heck I was reading. I told them it was ASM and proceeded to explain how it’s supposedly Ages 9 and Up. I had to quit reading and proceeded to read Avengers Academy #7. Now THAT’s a good comic.
Proves that Felicia Hardy has fake breasts too since the sketchy art (which I don’t like) gives her the athletic build of a gymnast or a final week Survivor contestant- but big round sticky outy boobs that scream FAKE. Art reference note: use real busty woman next time. That way when her build is wildly different from the character you’re supposed to be drawing a clue may perhaps be found.
I haven’t read this issue, but I do wanna say that I don’t have anything against Humberto Ramos’ Spidey stuff, and here I think it looks better than ever. In terms of the writing, I’m sick and tired of the gags at Mary Jane’s expense. It’s one thing for her and Peter not to be together, okay. But now they’re just seemingly making digs at her left and right. It’s annoying.
Not saying she has to be written as a patron saint or anything, but it comes off as another one of Marvel’s at the fans.
Felicia… is bathing in milk?!
Don’t suppose you got their number than 😉
Wouldn’t surprise me at Gerard, I remember one time that a friend of mine was trying to get me into anime and i turned him down saying I don’t wanna see cartoon women with comically big breasts constantly and his response was “Have you read your comics” and I picked one I’d already read at random and sure enough, every woman had large breasts but the writing was so immersive that it never occurred to me, I seen the characters and not the tits.
This on the other hand just completely takes you out of the story and I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say the a lot of the reason to have such gratuitous shots is to either A. Fuel male fantasies to extremes or B (and the thought of this disgusts me but I know its true). for men to actually….you know, I’m not going even say anything more than that because this is a family website but most folks will know what I mean,
Neither of those reasons (especially the second) belong in ASM and certainly not in a book for 9 and up.
@Jonny: True story — I read the issue while eating at a Pizza Hut/Taco Bell in Union Square, and the girl next to me started to whisper to her friend when she saw the page with Felicia in the milk bath. The other one said “eww” and then laughed at me.
AGES 9 AND UP!
Those cleavage panels nearly make me ashamed to be reading comics