If you’re a new visitor to the site or an old one I’d like to clear up some things about this website and our relationship with Dan Slott. Bottom line I don’t hate him or envy him.
History: When I started this website back in 1998 I was just hoping to share my love of Spider-Man to whoever would listen. In those 12 years I never guessed how many people share that same love of a certain webslinger. I was lucky to know one fan in my town that liked Spider-Man. After the movies hit it seemed everyone loved Spidey.
In 12 years we’ve grown from about a hundred people visiting the site a month to about 200,000 unique a month. If every visitor bought one issue of Amazing Spider-Man it would be the highest grossing comic for that particular month. According to the latest sales figures Amazing sold 52,586 in the direct market for November.
The comic industry is a small place. Writers can easily log onto websites the day their books are released and communicate with the fans within minutes. Should they do that? I think it’s a great idea. The internet has brought us closer together. Now with that relationship, I feel comes responsibility from both parties.
S
lott Comment to Fan: Dan Slott recently told off a snarky fan on the Comic Book Resources Spider-Man Forum. The fan said Slott was only doing it for a paycheck. Dan replied back saying.
As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…
…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…
…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:
Go fuck yourself.
Seriously.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
I saw that post and was shocked that Slott went off on him in that manner. Not that the guy didn’t have it coming, however I expected a professional comic book writer to act, well professional. Slott’s boss Editor Steve Wacker has a different opinion about his employee. He states that Slott does not represent Marvel and that he’s a freelance writer. So it’s just one of the many perks of said title.
Dan doesn’t live by the same rules because the freelancer/company relationship is very different. Not theoretically different… but specifically and legally different. You not wanting to believe in that doesn’t make it untrue or unimportant.
Is It News?: Slott and Wacker have both questioned why this was newsworthy. It was newsworthy because
A) This site covers events related to Spider-Man.
B) When the head writer tells a potential or current customer to go fuck themselves, it’s news.
C) It appeared that CBR tried to cover it up.
They took the post down. Did they do it to not show Slott in a bad light? Did they take it down because it was offensive? Slott says it was a dead issue because the snarky fan apologized. However I have never heard if Slott apologized too.
D) It happened in a public place. CBR is seen by thousands. If the guy said this to Slott in an e-mail or at a bar, it wouldn’t have been such a big deal. People who make the news are generally shocked that they are newsworthy. They then question the reporters judgment about their job.
E) I wanted to open up debate if it’s appropriate for a professional comic book writer to go off on a fan. We had more than 600 comments in that post. It seems fans were split down the middle.
Editorial : What is my two cents? I think Dan Slott can’t take criticism very well. He’s got his dream job. However, he got it after one of the biggest controversial storylines happened to our beloved character. Slott and this current team had nothing to do with the editorial mandate to break up the marriage. They were left to deal with the ticked off fans and start building up the audience. As Slott pointed out on his Formspring account, it’s been four years and nothing has changed.
Spider-Man fans are very passionate about this character. It has to do with the everyman characteristic. We all feel Peter Parker is like a brother to us and we all want the best for him. When something doesn’t feel right, they complain. Online there are certain place where you can vent.
You can’t go to the Marvel.com board. All discussion about One More Day has been banned. The other major Spider-Man websites don’t have a forum. Spider-Fan doesn’t had a board. Samruby.com doesn’t have a board. You can go to CBR, but it’s not a site just devoted to Spider-Man.
The Crawlspace does have a board but there are rules to follow. There are no personal attacks. If the exchange between Slott and the fan at CBR had happened here, both would have gotten a warning.
When Slott came to the Crawlspace when he first got the gig, I was flattered. He had a great first post about how he became a Spider-Fan and looked forward to talking to fans. That deteriorated over the months. In his 150 posts he got in more and more arguments. In fact he got a warning on one occasion. He eventually asked for his account to be deactivated. He claimed this was the most negative site about Spider-Man on the internet.He continued to bash this site at CBR and any other place he felt the need. Before he left I told him to explore the other areas of the message board. If you just search the words “Dan Slott” each time you visit you are going to get a different view of the board than taking it as a whole.
In a his recent formspring post Slott said K-Box from the Crawl Space message board told him to “go die in a fire.” After searching thoroughly it simply wasn’t true. At no point did he say that here on the Crawlspace. He could have said it on his own blog but Slott still attested that member to the Crawlspace. Is that fair? Should we have everyone pee in a cup before they enter? Should we do background checks before they enter? Slott did it because the Crawlspace is an easy target.
He proved that today when on his twitter account he accused a member of this site that they hacked his wikipedia page. Someone changed it to include these lines.
Spider-Man Crawlspace Controversy
After having a friendly debate with a fan on the internet about Spider-Man character Ben Reilly on the internet, Dan Slott was criticized by the popular Spider-Man Crawlspace website and was told by several members to “Go F- himself.” Similar incidents have happened on the website already, but never escalated to such a point. They also stated that “His stupidity has spread over the comic book world he should die of something bad… like cancer”, and has been called out by moderators on his forumspring account. While the website of interest has been known for criticizing Slott’s work, Slott in return is guilty of nothing but doing his job. The tension between them erupted in an internet flaming war. On December 11, 2010, Slott recieved death threats from user “Kevin Cushing” (using the fake name Jared) filed suit against Crawlspace owner Brad Douglas, Administrator Kevin Cushing, and 2 unidentified users of the Crawlspace Message Board for as of yet unknown charges
Slott then commented on his twitter page.
Wow! Lurked on a certain message board for the LAST time. I added BlockSite. Going to do the same 4 my laptop as well. Unbelievable. On the SAME thread where they’re saying “No one from our site would EVER vandalize Slott’s Wiki page, we’re just NOT like that here. Yet on the SAME thread a poster has signed on w/ a fake alias and is pretending to B me! Seriously. Bad enough you guys make stuff up left and right, claim we do things we’ve never done in the book, take cheap shots at Joe and the editorial and creative team… But– You know what? I’m done even bitching about it. Whatever. And done! That felt good! That site is now -whoosh- cut off from my laptop too. Can’t even lurk. It’s a relief actually. Let ’em yammer…away over there. Gotta watch out tho, it was almost 2 easy. ‘Might go BlockSite-happy! Poof CBR! Poof ‘Rama! Calm down. Not there yet. 🙂
Again Slott jumped to conclusions that someone from this website wrote that on his wikipedia page. Anyone from the internet can write on the wikipedia page. Why would he blame this site? Again, it’s an easy target. A bunch of Spider-Fan gather here, it must be the Crawlspace. A lot of people also shop at Wal-Mart that have criminal histories. Do you blame Wal-Mart for crime? By reading the wiki post it seems they have an ax to grind with this site to begin with.
As far as the person who impersonated Slott on the front page. That’s an instant ban. The IP matched Cyberghostface and he was dealt with and banned.
Bottom Line: I think Slott should not read reviews of his work. He is potentially losing Marvel customers. If you tell a customer or potential customer to go F-Themselves then you are taking things too seriously. You need to back away and get out of the environment.
I also don’t take criticism of this website very well. I feel my staff and I put out the best Spider-Man fan site on the internet. We have daily updates and try to give you a place to have fun and discuss our favorite webhead.
I do think fans on the internet need to take some sensitivity classes. They should follow a simple rule. Would I say this to the person’s face? If the answer is no, don’t post it. Discuss,criticize and praise the work, not the creator. Be responsible! We all love a character that is driven by responsibility. We should be responsible in our comments and behavior.
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I don’t want to type everything again in the off chance it gets arbitrarily deleted again. It’s happened a couple times now.
Weird standards in my opinion, but good luck in your crusade(s).
SW
“This is weird. I can be talked to but can’t respond.”
That post is visible.
This is weird. I can be talked to but can’t respond.
Stephen, all indications I received from trusted sources indicated that it wasn’t a purely friendly situation, based on the aforementioned melodrama going on behind the scenes before I received the contact. Then there was the hounding of site admins if my name appeared in blog comment threads after that time.
For my sake? Nah, I’ve moved on. I just feel it is disingenuous of you to try to suggest that those involved rarely respond to the negative reviews, when the facts regarding Slott’s pattern of behavior seem to indicate differently. I know he’s just one of those involved, but you made a blanket statement that he falls under. While I think his “GO. FUCK. YOURSELF.” response was just his being human (as even I know ASM is a passion and not a paycheck for him), it is still just one action of many that demonstrates that Slott is drawn to respond to negative postings like a moth to a flame.
And I don’t even think that makes him a bad guy. Too many people that I like and respect stand by him being a quality individual, so I feel pretty confident that my moment with him is not really indicative of who he is as a person. No one wants to be or should be known more for their worst moments or their flaws. I won’t be sending him a Christmas card any time soon (and not just because I’m muslim), but I’m not rooting against him (anymore), either.
Don’t really get the dragging it on and on comment. It’s been a week. For me dragging it on would be over a number of weeks or months. BD’s posted 3 stories on the front page. The first story was about the original incident where he stated “Now I post this not to bring up the Slott/ Crawlspace disagreement again, but it opens a good point of discussion. Should the pro’s be held to a different standard when it comes to online behavior?”. Second story was regarding a post that Dan Slott had made that was specifically aimed at BD & Crawlspace. Neither of these seem to me to show his personal opinions on these which brings us to this story where he does state his opinions on what happened.
If other people who post here and are known to post here have gone somewhere else and posted things to drag on the story I’m not sure that the Crawlspace should be blamed. If I posted something that offended someone and I was known to post on something like a Disney website or something like that would that site be blamed? If I offend someone it’s my fault not anyone else’s.
I think at this point, both sides in this are wrong. It’s just a long and drawn out battle that will never end. And as they say, it takes two to tango. And after seeing how both the Crawlspace and Wacker/Slott conduct themselves, it’s safe to say that, both are at fault for this whole mess. Slott for starting it, and Crawlspace for dragging it on and on. At least Wacker is still funny sometimes. Ah well, that’s my final say in the matter. If this is all the Crawlspace has been reduced to today, and if this is all Wacker can do to entertain himself, then from both sides, that truly is sad.
Oh one last thing: If anyone here thinks they’re the better man in any of this, well then you’re a hypocrite. Peace out.
BD,
Thank you for establishing the tone (“Be responsible!”) you envision for everyone that posts on this site. It is too bad that this site gets a “black eye” when the inevitable negative rant is posted from a fan that is less than happy about a particular situation. The post reflects mostly on the individual feelings or thoughts about it and should not reflect negatively on the site itself. When I see a crazy driver, I don’t blame the manufacturer of the car that made him be that way, (ok, unless it is a BMW driver…), instead I see an individual crazy driver. But of course, this is all too obvious…
For me the Crawlspace is hands down the best on finding great stuff and post on the front page that is hilarious, different and downright fun. So keep up the good work.
Sincerely,
Spider-Dad
BTW: I disagree with George all the time. He can’t be right, he is after all from Texas… 🙂
@ #90 why are you trolling pretending to be Doom? You Doombot. 🙂
@ #90:
I’m very sorry, your Evi…er, Excellency.
For the record I don’t think anyone here actually hates slott or wacker, if anyone online actually did hate them I’d strongly recommend they’d turn off their computer and getting back to the real world and realise theres far more important things in the world than online message boards.
Of course if I believe anyone on this board was like that I wouldn’t be here.
I suggest we look up the word “neurotic”, and see if it applies.
I never said it before, but I will now.
I love the hell out of this site, and am catching up on the podcast. I rarely agree with you guys, as I love just about everything BND, but it’s definitely interesting and refreshing to hear different opinions about it.
@88
Evil? That’s pure libel.
It bums me out that there’s so much animosity between the writer of ASM and this site. I like Slott’s stories and I’m excited for the new direction of the book. I also enjoy the podcast, even when I don’t agree with the opinions. I wish that this could all end with Slott and BD hugging it out over a podcast and forgetting this whole ordeal.
@ #87:
What are you doing here?!?!
You’re evil and we love to hate you. 😛
I suppose I should say no offense to the good posters and moderators here. I don’t want anyone to take what I said the wrong way.
I just feel that’s the nature of the beast. And I don’t mind it. I think it makes things interesting.
Long-time follower, first time poster.
I’m starting to think it might be easier for creators to not concern themselves with message boards and the like. It rarely ever leads to good things.
The fans (as a whole) are Chaos personified – a squalling, formless void of conflicting ideas and desires that is never, ever satisfied. Different opinions and feelings and all that. Which is how it should be.
Steve, why are you here? Didn’t you see that ratpack223 took it upon himself to ban you from the whole internet? 😐
I don’t read the polls at Marvel.com either.
@ #81:
You….didn’t….participate….?
Oh, cruel, cold world!!
Nah, just kidding!
Would be interesting to note each poster’s
response of yea or nay, but that’s a lotta
work and work is a four-letter word.
@ #80:
Don’t the messageboards at marvel.com have polls, as well?
Wherever shall you turn to now?
@herbie #55
You mean the one I didn’t participate in? I’m looking at replies alone here.
OMG!! A POLL!!! That’s enough for me!!!
SW
I totally believe this. Like all of us Dan does dumb stuff — like making goofball bets– all the time. I always challenge people that I can read from farther distances than I really can.
However, is it possible Dan was assuming you’re more congenial than you seem to be? Artists and critics have had friendly rivalries for centuries. Maybe your tough-guy, hammer mentality is making you see every problem as a nail.
At this point though would anything beyond admitting abject failure satisfy you??!?! Where does it end, George!?!?! For Kevin’s sake…where does it end!!!!???
SW
@ #55:
My messageboard poll leans pretty
heavily toward Slott being wrong in his response.
@Huxford
He sent me some PM’s via CBR on New Year’s Eve ’08 about how wrong I was and how he wanted to make a bet with me and told me I’d need to start going back and editing my posts. So it’s not hard for me to believe you.
I find that people who dislike something are usually the most vocal about it. This was the only Spider-man specific website I could find that had a message board that seemed active. There’s Spider-man fans here who dislike what’s been happening and they’re gonna make more of a fuss about things than the fans who are content to just enjoy the series and see where it’s gonna go. Plus negativity seems to get more attention than anything positive when discussing anything Spider-man related or not. It’s also an easy way to start discussions on things.
Mr Slott disagreed with what someone said and became vocal about it. Should he have done that? Yes. Should he have done it in a better manner? Maybe but it has opened up interesting discussions regarding the way creators communicate with fans and the way fans communicate with creators. It’d be nice if everyone could be civil to each other on the internet but unfortunately we don’t have that and some people are gonna annoy others to the point where they have to say something.
Anyways, as Stuart Green said Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to everyone here and at Marvel ^_^
Nat: sorry you find it hard to believe. I still have the e-mails and, presumably, Slott’s number. The folks running Newsarama at the time were made aware of it, too. If not for some melodrama going on at the time behind the scenes, I probably would have called Slott, as the invitation was initially flattering. Continued e-mails pressing me to call is where it went from flattery to hounding. If the vlog that brought on the contact hadn’t been part of the Best Shots column on Newsarama, I probably wouldn’t have been contacted in that manner.
#65 “I say this as someone who still has archived the several times he hounded me through e-mail to call him after midnight to tell me everything I got wrong in my review of the first Brand New Day issue.”
Why do i find this hard to believe?
As a person who checks in almost everyday i do often find negative and sometimes just plain bad reviews of the spidey comics both on the boards and the podcast. I often hear, “nothing happened,” or, ” that was just ass.” I acknowledge a persons right to his or her opion but i often find my self asking,” what do you mean by nothing happened?” or,”what makes this such ass?” On that note, i also get well thoughtout reviews that often make me think twice about what i just read and further my enjoyment of my favorite comics. I also feel that this is the internet and most of what you’ll get is negative comments from the vocal minority. A lot of us just read or listen and chime in when the time is right. It kind of feels like my parent are fighting and i don’t know whos side to take or even if i should take a side at all.
@72 “Your lives should revolve solely on slumping over a drawing-board or (non-internet connected) computer making Spider-Man comics for me to read!”
I’d like that.
@70
Yeah!! You hear that Wacker, Slott and company? Stay off the internet! Deactivate your twitters, your facebooks and don’t even dream of coming to a forum ever again! Your lives should revolve solely on slumping over a drawing-board or (non-internet connected) computer making Spider-Man comics for me to read!
Jeez, good to see people acting mature here.
Can you imagine the uproar of indignation if Wacker said:
“I’d wish ratpack 223 and others would stay off the net. I’ve never liked the idea of fans being so close to the creators. When you’re too close to something, it always loses its magic.”
These are people. Not your dancing monkeys.
@69
Let the Airing of Grievances begin!!!! lol
I’d wish Slott, Wacker ect. would stay out of the net. I’ve never liked the idea of the creators being so close to the fans. When you’re too close to something, it always looses its magic.
@67
FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US!!!
Good article Brad. It presented the information fairly in a situation where one could easily loose their temper.
@#64: I agree with Wheatcakes in that we need to let bygones be bygones and Merry Christmas to all, including the guys here at Crawl Space and to everyone at Marvel (Mr. Quesada, Mr. Wacker, Mr. Slott, etc.)! Unless, of course, you don’t celebrate Christmas. If that’s the case, then Happy Holidays!
“This site has a reputation for being mean spirited and nasty.”
Really? from who? State your sources.
“No. No one minds criticism…despite what others will have you believe. That’s not where the issues come up as evidenced by the many negative reviews no one involved responds to.”
You’re aware Slott is being discussed here, right? He’s clearly not an example of someone who doesn’t respond to many of the negative reviews. I say this as someone who still has archived the several times he hounded me through e-mail to call him after midnight to tell me everything I got wrong in my review of the first Brand New Day issue. And seeing as how this is the writer you have turned the book over to, you’re on shaky ground if you’re trying to say there are many negative reviews NO ONE INVOLVED responds to. Or that “you” handle criticism better than most here. I would like to know what you intended to say with “I much harder on the than any of you”, as it could have been something that would have greatly changed what I understand your position to be.
Then again, unless someone in a BleedingCool thread links back here, I probably won’t get a chance to see it. Still like a lot of the work you get out the door at Marvel and would love to see successfully pull off something like 52 again (as impossible a task as that may be), which was easily one of my favorite comic book reading experiences.
Let’s all let bygones be bygones. Everything that can possibly be said about this issue has been said.
If Mr Wacker and Mr Slott think we all suck, fine. I’m sure we all wish them well despite everything that’s been said.
If we all think Mr Wacker and Mr Slott suck, fine. I’m under the impression our opinions (and I know we all don’t feel this way about them) don’t really matter to them anyway.
The mods who have had to work overtime to handle this mess have done a superb job, always keeping it professional. I take my hat off to you in particular Kevin.
Brad has responded to this in a very professional way, and he should have the final say on it.
Sorry, I don’t want to sound like a mod, no disrespect intended nor trying to sound like any sort of authority on anything here. But this is supposed to be the joyous time of year, right? Merry Christmas to all, including the hard working gang at Marvel. Merry. Christmas. All. 🙂
re 61
Then where do the issues come up? The only things I am seeing are critiques of the work, along with some debate about the age-appropritateness of the material for children and some debate about professionalism- none of which seem to be major things that one would consider “negative”
You guys are funny. Just the idea that Slott can’t take criticism based on what you guys say is hilarious. The guy is a professional comic book writer, his work is critiqued all the time by the people he works with. He has to pitch ideas to editors to get them on the page – do you think they’re less harsh than some guy on the internet? It’ll probably be more constructive and less mean spirited.
This site has a reputation for being mean spirited and nasty. It has nothing to do with what the creators say about it, it’s peoples personal experiences of the place. This past week has been a perfect example of that, calling attention to a situation that had already been sorted out between the people involved did what exactly? Who did it help? Who is now better for you making that post? Whose mind has it changed? What benefit did it have?
You started that post by stating that it was not intended to call attention to the Dan Slott/ Crawlspace feud, that’s kind of like saying, “I’m not racist, but…” I think you’re the one who is upset and can’t take criticism. I think you hate that the guys who work on Spider-Man don’t like the site, except in a holding pen type way. And I think it’s easier to blame Slott and Wacker for that than yourself for allowing your site to become so mean spirited. Then again, I guess it’s possible that everybody else is wrong and only the people on this site are right. But when thinking about that, I suggest you ask yourself why this seems to be the only site than even gives a shit about the Fuck Yourself comment anymore
No. No one minds criticism…despite what others will have you believe. That’s not where the issues come up as evidenced by the many negative reviews no one involved responds to. I much harder on the than any of you.
But I do understand that’s an easy complaint to hang your anger on. However… We certainly seem to handle criticism better than people here for the most part.
Sw
“Unfortunately, this place has gotten a reputation and it’s fighting hard to earn it.”
You mean the reputation you and Slott try to spread because we give our honest opinion on the work you put out?
@Two-Bit Specialist – Nope, I’m not new to the internet. I just do my best not to let the weird comments on the internet get to me or let the comments drive me crazy.
Well, maybe crazy-ER. 😉
@Mr. Wacker – I like this place too and I like you too, Mr. Wacker. But I think there’s a lot of positive stuff posted here too. You’d be surprised.
Have a good night, everyone!
@Stuart – I find your good manners and disposition refreshing, good sir. Are you new to the Internet? I was like you once too. The ‘net has a way of affecting you adversely.
Unfortunately the negativism is what puts the butts in the seats in message boards/comments sections.
As evidence… see the many stories on this blog about this same subject that everyone claims to be tired of.
Unfortunately, this place has gotten a reputation and it’s fighting hard to earn it.
I like the place though. Keeps all the riff-raff in one place! (plus i collect fake graphs!)
Steve
Yes, Brad’s comments are very well said. I just hate seeing so much negativity on the message boards on ANY web site lately. So many snide comments, insults, personal attacks, and such are being used these days, and the scary thing is, it’s becoming the norm. That’s not a total shock, after all, but even so, it’s disappointing to me to see how many angry replies there are and how quickly they go up. Anyway, I’m glad SMCS has warnings and bans for these kinds of comments though, while some other MBs don’t react nearly as fast or as strict when need be. Nobody needs to have a profane, hurtful remark said at them, whether it’s BD, Dan Slott, or anyone else.
Besides, it’s the holidays. Tis the season to be JOLLY, remember?
Well, I hope that things get calmer and we can have more important, more fun topics to talk about on Spider-Man Crawl Space in the future. Enjoy your evenings, everyone! 😀
@jpd13 – They were pretty split, IMO.
Well said Brad. A shame this was even necessary. You’ve got a great thing going here and you don’t need me to tell you to keep it up! This is THE best place for Spider-Man fans to meet and chat.
One thing I will disagree with you on is that posters on the site are NOT split down the middle on Slott’s comments. I would say that the majority of people seem to think his comments were unprofessional and out of line.
200 000 vistitors a month, thats a good number of people. I remember individual comics used to sell that many copies at one time(not just spider-man) its a shame they don’t anymore. Especially when the evidence is there that they do have the number of people necesary interested in them, really says alot about the current state of the industry as a whole not just spider-man.