If you’re a new visitor to the site or an old one I’d like to clear up some things about this website and our relationship with Dan Slott. Bottom line I don’t hate him or envy him.
History: When I started this website back in 1998 I was just hoping to share my love of Spider-Man to whoever would listen. In those 12 years I never guessed how many people share that same love of a certain webslinger. I was lucky to know one fan in my town that liked Spider-Man. After the movies hit it seemed everyone loved Spidey.
In 12 years we’ve grown from about a hundred people visiting the site a month to about 200,000 unique a month. If every visitor bought one issue of Amazing Spider-Man it would be the highest grossing comic for that particular month. According to the latest sales figures Amazing sold 52,586 in the direct market for November.
The comic industry is a small place. Writers can easily log onto websites the day their books are released and communicate with the fans within minutes. Should they do that? I think it’s a great idea. The internet has brought us closer together. Now with that relationship, I feel comes responsibility from both parties.
S
lott Comment to Fan: Dan Slott recently told off a snarky fan on the Comic Book Resources Spider-Man Forum. The fan said Slott was only doing it for a paycheck. Dan replied back saying.
As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…
…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…
…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:
Go fuck yourself.
Seriously.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
I saw that post and was shocked that Slott went off on him in that manner. Not that the guy didn’t have it coming, however I expected a professional comic book writer to act, well professional. Slott’s boss Editor Steve Wacker has a different opinion about his employee. He states that Slott does not represent Marvel and that he’s a freelance writer. So it’s just one of the many perks of said title.
Dan doesn’t live by the same rules because the freelancer/company relationship is very different. Not theoretically different… but specifically and legally different. You not wanting to believe in that doesn’t make it untrue or unimportant.
Is It News?: Slott and Wacker have both questioned why this was newsworthy. It was newsworthy because
A) This site covers events related to Spider-Man.
B) When the head writer tells a potential or current customer to go fuck themselves, it’s news.
C) It appeared that CBR tried to cover it up.
They took the post down. Did they do it to not show Slott in a bad light? Did they take it down because it was offensive? Slott says it was a dead issue because the snarky fan apologized. However I have never heard if Slott apologized too.
D) It happened in a public place. CBR is seen by thousands. If the guy said this to Slott in an e-mail or at a bar, it wouldn’t have been such a big deal. People who make the news are generally shocked that they are newsworthy. They then question the reporters judgment about their job.
E) I wanted to open up debate if it’s appropriate for a professional comic book writer to go off on a fan. We had more than 600 comments in that post. It seems fans were split down the middle.
Editorial : What is my two cents? I think Dan Slott can’t take criticism very well. He’s got his dream job. However, he got it after one of the biggest controversial storylines happened to our beloved character. Slott and this current team had nothing to do with the editorial mandate to break up the marriage. They were left to deal with the ticked off fans and start building up the audience. As Slott pointed out on his Formspring account, it’s been four years and nothing has changed.
Spider-Man fans are very passionate about this character. It has to do with the everyman characteristic. We all feel Peter Parker is like a brother to us and we all want the best for him. When something doesn’t feel right, they complain. Online there are certain place where you can vent.
You can’t go to the Marvel.com board. All discussion about One More Day has been banned. The other major Spider-Man websites don’t have a forum. Spider-Fan doesn’t had a board. Samruby.com doesn’t have a board. You can go to CBR, but it’s not a site just devoted to Spider-Man.
The Crawlspace does have a board but there are rules to follow. There are no personal attacks. If the exchange between Slott and the fan at CBR had happened here, both would have gotten a warning.
When Slott came to the Crawlspace when he first got the gig, I was flattered. He had a great first post about how he became a Spider-Fan and looked forward to talking to fans. That deteriorated over the months. In his 150 posts he got in more and more arguments. In fact he got a warning on one occasion. He eventually asked for his account to be deactivated. He claimed this was the most negative site about Spider-Man on the internet.He continued to bash this site at CBR and any other place he felt the need. Before he left I told him to explore the other areas of the message board. If you just search the words “Dan Slott” each time you visit you are going to get a different view of the board than taking it as a whole.
In a his recent formspring post Slott said K-Box from the Crawl Space message board told him to “go die in a fire.” After searching thoroughly it simply wasn’t true. At no point did he say that here on the Crawlspace. He could have said it on his own blog but Slott still attested that member to the Crawlspace. Is that fair? Should we have everyone pee in a cup before they enter? Should we do background checks before they enter? Slott did it because the Crawlspace is an easy target.
He proved that today when on his twitter account he accused a member of this site that they hacked his wikipedia page. Someone changed it to include these lines.
Spider-Man Crawlspace Controversy
After having a friendly debate with a fan on the internet about Spider-Man character Ben Reilly on the internet, Dan Slott was criticized by the popular Spider-Man Crawlspace website and was told by several members to “Go F- himself.” Similar incidents have happened on the website already, but never escalated to such a point. They also stated that “His stupidity has spread over the comic book world he should die of something bad… like cancer”, and has been called out by moderators on his forumspring account. While the website of interest has been known for criticizing Slott’s work, Slott in return is guilty of nothing but doing his job. The tension between them erupted in an internet flaming war. On December 11, 2010, Slott recieved death threats from user “Kevin Cushing” (using the fake name Jared) filed suit against Crawlspace owner Brad Douglas, Administrator Kevin Cushing, and 2 unidentified users of the Crawlspace Message Board for as of yet unknown charges
Slott then commented on his twitter page.
Wow! Lurked on a certain message board for the LAST time. I added BlockSite. Going to do the same 4 my laptop as well. Unbelievable. On the SAME thread where they’re saying “No one from our site would EVER vandalize Slott’s Wiki page, we’re just NOT like that here. Yet on the SAME thread a poster has signed on w/ a fake alias and is pretending to B me! Seriously. Bad enough you guys make stuff up left and right, claim we do things we’ve never done in the book, take cheap shots at Joe and the editorial and creative team… But– You know what? I’m done even bitching about it. Whatever. And done! That felt good! That site is now -whoosh- cut off from my laptop too. Can’t even lurk. It’s a relief actually. Let ’em yammer…away over there. Gotta watch out tho, it was almost 2 easy. ‘Might go BlockSite-happy! Poof CBR! Poof ‘Rama! Calm down. Not there yet. 🙂
Again Slott jumped to conclusions that someone from this website wrote that on his wikipedia page. Anyone from the internet can write on the wikipedia page. Why would he blame this site? Again, it’s an easy target. A bunch of Spider-Fan gather here, it must be the Crawlspace. A lot of people also shop at Wal-Mart that have criminal histories. Do you blame Wal-Mart for crime? By reading the wiki post it seems they have an ax to grind with this site to begin with.
As far as the person who impersonated Slott on the front page. That’s an instant ban. The IP matched Cyberghostface and he was dealt with and banned.
Bottom Line: I think Slott should not read reviews of his work. He is potentially losing Marvel customers. If you tell a customer or potential customer to go F-Themselves then you are taking things too seriously. You need to back away and get out of the environment.
I also don’t take criticism of this website very well. I feel my staff and I put out the best Spider-Man fan site on the internet. We have daily updates and try to give you a place to have fun and discuss our favorite webhead.
I do think fans on the internet need to take some sensitivity classes. They should follow a simple rule. Would I say this to the person’s face? If the answer is no, don’t post it. Discuss,criticize and praise the work, not the creator. Be responsible! We all love a character that is driven by responsibility. We should be responsible in our comments and behavior.
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hey BD i guess you shit more than just 200,000 a month,
you also shit SHIT.. and it stinks.
asshole.
way to go Dan Slott, who the fuck do these whingers think they are to go up to you and mouth off.
fuck you whingers.
fuck.
you.
Well said, BD. I was wondering what your personal thoughts were on all of this.
Heck yeah the guys should be proud of this site! Spider-Man Crawl Space is one of the best websites I’ve EVER been to, Spider-Man or otherwise. I’m sure proud to be one of the members who’s lucky enough to post replies here. I hope that everyone here, including the folks at Marvel, has a great day and enjoys the rest of their weekend. ‘Nuff said!
I would like to thank Brad for this, your thoughts are clear and well constructed. Not to mention backed up by sound reasoning. You have expressed yourself in a far clearer and more proffessional manner than anyone else involved.
As a fan of Spider-man, I am embarassed that the situaiton came to this. That Marvel, a company owned by Disney have not issued an offical stance is a little upsetting, anyone could have read that message board. Instead they prefer to antagonise the internet community with further jibes. Has the situation been blow out of proportion? Almost definatly, but because no offical response was made in the early stages. It enraged people further.
No one else in the world could mak a statement like that to a customer and it be so ignored by those in charge of said individual. Honestly I preferred when writers (and editors) were men behind the curtian. I don’t see Grant Morrison fighting with fans over whose the true Batman, and I’m a little ashamed that Marvel dignify such silly critics with a response. Lets just make fun comics, please.
This is a great website BD. From someone who also enjoys CBR and a host of other comics/spidey-related websites, this is my favorite for multiple reasons.
You run a quality webpage, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. You and your moderators, as shown in the past week, are very level-headed and fair-minded.
Keep up the great work!
Bit of a shame this. Obviously he shouldn’t blame a website for a few comments that may/may not have been made, but I do know if I was writing it and doing my best, it’d be very easy to blame people and have a rant online perhaps to the wrong audience. Regardless, he’s done it so I guess we should just move on…
@Gerard – I see. I came upon it last week while playing the issue # game. It’s a shame, because I don’t know any other site with as much detailed information of Spidey books, complete with covers and credits, as that one.
^^^ What Miles_Warren said :)… I can’t believe I just agreed with the Jackal.
Obviously joking.
Hopefully Wacker or some other lurker who knows Dan can let him know that it was a disgruntled poster who who was banned months ago that vandalized his wiki page, and that the person who impersonated him was banned. Maybe then he’ll stop taking it out on the site, which was just as much a victem of these lies as he. It kills me to think he’ll never know what a premature overreaction he’s had because he’s blocked the only site that could let him know.
@Two-Bit Specialist: So far as I know, samruby.com is run by one guy. Obviously, if he is having some problems IRL or has become disenfranchised with the title, the site is going to remain as it is and eventually disappear. I recall something like this happening years ago to a similar Fantastic Four fansite that simply decided to fold up when JMS took over the title, because that person couldn’t bring himself/herself to read the title anymore.
Its a shame that Slott has a problem with the crawl space. This is the greatest Spidey site on the internet. Hands down.
If Slott, current writer of Amazing, feels that blocking the crawl space and isolating a large group of Spidey fans is necessary, well that’s his loss. The crawl space will still be here when the next writer takes over from Slott, and the next writer takes over from him. And, with the increasing number of visitors to this site, it’ll be bigger than it is now.
BD you should be PROUD of tis site.
Also, speaking of SamRuby.com, is that site still actively updated? They were up to Character Assassination and then stopped, and now they are behind about 100 issues of ASM.
The thing that kinda jumped at me is the Wikipedia article edit. No one really needs to “hack” it because anyone with a computer can edit the articles, but for every troll out there there are 2 or 3 guys who’ll revert the edits and make sure it doesn’t happen again. From reading the discussion page, it seems H4M’s IP has been banned from editing.
I should clarify that last post a bit. I think it’s saddening that Dan has gone out against the CrawlSpace like this, tarred us all with the same brush, and finally decided to leave for good because IMO this IS the best Spidey discussion forum out there, and it’s a pleasure to be able to discuss, debate, or simply joke around so freely online with (mostly) decent, reasonable folks on such a well-regulated site.
And come to think of it, didn’t ex-Spider writer Paul Jenkins use to write a column called “Flogging a Dead Horse”? Man, whatever happened to that? Joking aside, my advice to Dan Slott would be to take his job seriously, sure, but don’t take HIMSELF so seriously. I think he’s gone way OTT over this, even though I understand why having a bunch of folks constantly throwing insults at you over the net that they likely wouldn’t DARE say to your face would piss you off. But, hey, if he doesn’t anymore to do with the Crawlspace… well, it’s quite saddening, but it’s his loss.
Kevin: Can charges be pressed? Its seems to me what H4M did was pretty serious. At minimum maybe y’all should pull a Sir Spidy and let his parents know what he’s been up to online?
Jesus Christ, are we still flogging this dead horse?
Great editorial, Brad. I wholeheartedly agree with the opinions you shared and I hope we can put this mess behind us
According to wiki’s edit history page, the person who vandalized slott’s page is 68.162.42.28. That looks like an ip address to me. Shouldn’t getting to the bottom of this be as simple as finding out if that matches any member and, if it does, banning that person for spreading lies about the site?
Okay I’ll man up to it, I did the wiki thing.
Great editorial BD. I hope that this situation hasn’t hurt the relationship you have with other Marvel staff that have been guests. It would be very said if it did. Has anyone else contacted you?
Hey BD, this was a very nice editorial and a great way to clear the air…its a shame its come to this, i don’t think CS deserves a blemish like this one b/c theres a lot of very bright, very enthusiastic Spiderfans here who have a lot of integrity…and i’m not just blowin smoke…
I want to add though, in the original ‘slott f-off thread’ on the homepage, i made the statement to say that i do not think this was newsworthy…reading your editorial, its obvious you disagree with my stance…I wanted to respond to the rationale you listed above, and again, i’m not trying to be antagonistic, its all in good-discussion, imo…
Referencing your points above, i’ve countered…
A) Exactly! Spider-Man! not Spider-Slott! I know he’s the head writer right now, but writers come and go, Spider-Man remains…I’m the type of fan that doesnt get into the politics/behind-the-scenes stuff surrounding these characters, so my stance may be unique here…sometimes i think the best way to avoid personal attacks on the creators in our discussions, may be to limit the amount of discussion we have about the creators’ actions (outside of the work itself)…although that may be impossible, like trying to get piss out of a swimming pool…
D) But a bar is a public place too…had someone had their phone and recorded Slott telling a fan to ‘f off’ at a bar and posted it on the web, would that be newsworthy? my point is that the way this stuff gets reported the context gets perturbed, and that allows biases set in and the ensuing snowball effect begins…b/c of the internet/modern tech, a ‘public place’ doesn’t mean the same thing that it used to…the id’s of the message board folks are (largely) anonymous, i’d argue thats not public (despite being open to the public)…its modified public at best…
E) I don’t think its even a debate, i think we all know that it is inappropriate for anyone to say ‘f-off’ to somebody…so obviously Slotts actions were inappropriate…i don’t care if you’re a head writer for ASM or the head cook at McDonalds…thats a no-brainer…the question to me is, is it worthing judging him as a person, and i would say ‘no’ due to insufficient evidence…;) However, your comment about his ability to accept criticism seems spot-on given the recent events, thats a very intuitive observation…i don’t think anyone articulated as such in the original thread, that may have saved some of the snarky back-and-forth with Wacker…
At the end of the day BD, i come to this site to talk spidey and read spidey (the reviews/spider-memories/captions are the heart of the home page, imo)…I’m not interested in the lives/actions of those creating the character…I’m interested in just the characters…people might say that it is a package deal (that is, the people creating spidey are essentially giving life to the character and are thus just as important)…i disagree…i don’t know anything about what Lee/Stern/Busiek/Jenkins/whoever do with their free time, and i don’t mind keeping it that way…
This is just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs…
Of course, I will continue to visit this site and spiderfan and samruby b/c they’re the best spidersites on the web hands down…
-keith
Well said Brad. Slott and Wacker should take note – your post shows exactly how one can be civilized and respectful to others on a message board on the internet.
I’ll echo the sentiments of several other posters: keep up the good work.
Sebastien
Hi Everyone.
I have followed this site for quite a while now, but this is my first post.
There is a few things i dont understand from mr. Slott. The man can be consider an artist right? And like evry artist, when he publishes his work, he will get feedback right? So why being so surprised that some people dont like his work? I mean, painters, directors, actors, writers, they all get critics, either good or bad. How many of them tell their fans or custumers to go do what he said? I quit reading Spiderman during one more day, after being a big fan for 15 years (yes, i am one of those who were even buying the tie-in because it was spider related) i came back at the beginning of new way to die, because of the T-Bolt, and started reading ASM and its tie-in since then. I was on the fence about big time, but wanted to give the new creative team a chance to surprise me and decided to keep reading the first arc. Now, i wont. i cant give my money to someone who tells me to go F- myself. I wont even buy any marvel comic anymore.
Sorry guys, but you have a DUTY to respect your custumers. If you cant take critics, well maybe u shouldnt be an artist. I’m studying to become an accountant. Maybe i shouldnt if i didnt like numbers. Same rules apply to you Mr Slott. On a side note, im working minimum wage as a cashier for an hardware store. People are complaining and are rude ALL THE TIME. But guess what: if i tell one to go to hell, i lose my job.
Now to BD: Your site IS the greatest around. Its the only place where i can read review and comment from everyone, and where every point of view is respected. Where a constructive debate can happen. Keep up the good work.
Another post about this! please stop, it may be news to your eyes, but its not news i want to see! Its only a series of negative posts that encourage negative discussion. I believe stuff like this from message boards shouldn’t be posted on the site and should stay on there! This news is honestly not news to me because in the end, what he said to the poster doesn’t matter to me. As long as he writes great stuff (or shitty stuff), thats what i care about…movie news, tv news, and even your baby videos are fine but please stop this! Seriously, three posts is more than enough and it will be disappointing and startling to see a fourth! Stop trying to justify the point of posting about slott!
I feel this whole thing has gotten way out of hand and it needs to stop. I honestly don’t like coming to the site so much anymore because it’s so focused these days on Slott vs. Crawlspace or whatever. I also hate how much attention the Crawlspace has given other websites. Why does anyone care so much? We all know these are just comic books, right?
BD, I think you and everyone else does a great job. It’s why it’s the only comics related site I visit and participate in regularly, but I think it’s just time to ignore this situation and move on.
Good editorial. Comment: It isn’t a fault if Crawlspace takes an over-all dim view of the current ASM stories. They aren’t obliged to take a positive, bright view. Unlike CBR, whose reviews are mostly promotionals with a few minor quibbles added-in here and there to make them seem like real reviews, the reviews here actually review the issues. Even Delatour, who a few months back wrote one of the most profane, volcanic review-rants I’ve ever read, knows how to praise ASM when he thinks it deserves it. And has done so. So even he doesn’t fit the stereotype that Slott and the other Marvel courtiers want to paint.
Personally, I think it would be great if CS posters quit using the f-word altogether, since kids probably visit this site, and we also don’t want to be hypocrites — shine the light on Slott cursing out some poor, silly kid, and then talk like him. But CS posters aren’t CS owners or managers, either. BD & crew lets fans praise the current stories, and as I said, the monthly reviews aren’t uniformly negative.
Reality always wins in the end. Visitors to the site will figure out what the site is or isn’t really like, regardless of what anyone says. Slott, by his words and actions, will convince people he’s a certain sort of person, good, bad, or indifferent, regardless of what his biggest fans want other people to think of him. But don’t expect him to smile at the next Comic-Con…
#20: You may see that here, but to people who don’t visit and just go by Crawlspace’s reputation from Slott, CBR, ‘Rama, etc don’t. Whether is true or not is irrelevant when talking about public perception.
The problem is that neither creators or none-buying-fans know much about oneanother and what they are doing.
@ #19:
“This whole thing doesn’t make anybody look good.”
Class, professionalism and maturity look pretty good to this poster.
BD and the crawlspace stand very tall.
Slott and Wacker could and should learn from BD.
This whole thing doesn’t make anybody look good. It makes Dan Slott look unprofessional and paranoid. It makes Crawlspace look like this big negative monster of Spider-fandom, and it makes the internet armchair critics of the world foolishly throw their hands in the air and bicker over a very small, one-and-done incident.
And now we have many Dan Slott jokes to come. Can’t wait to see how the comment section of ASM #650 oh-so-cleverly indirectly do “GO EFF YOURSELF” jokes because they didn’t like the issue.
I can wonder what the hell CyberGhostface was thinking, did he have a bone to pick with George or something because surely he knew the mods could trace IP addresses
I confess I’ll miss Cyberghostface, but impersonating a creator obviously crosses the line. Great editorial BD. One of the many reasons I keep coming back here is that you allow diversity of opinion. Hopefully this editorial will clear things up for some people.
i think something we forget when saying dan should be more “professional” is this: He’s one of us, like most modern comic writers he was a fanboy first and like us has strong reactions to criticism, maybe he shouldn’t read reviews of his own work, that’s what a lot of writers do because it just doesn’t help them to write, a good review just fuels the ego and harsh criticism deflates it, neither is conductive to good writiing, of comics or anything else
This is all getting to be unseemly. No one is looking good in this. Yes, Slott and Wacker are not looking good, but neither is Crawlspace. Are all these Slott posts an attempted clarification of the situation or a cynical ploy to drum up traffic? Best thing to do would be to ignore Slott and let him write whatever the hell he wants on twitter without drawing more attention to it. Be the bigger man, review the strengths and weaknesses of the book, but don’t review the personalities who write the book.
While I think that the way that he has dealt with the whole debacle is questionable at best, I do feel sorry for Slott. He clearly loves the character, in my opinion has written some excellent stories – including some of my favourite Spider-Man stories this decade – and yet has had to put up with some of the most venomous criticism ever seen against a comic book writer, including several personal attacks (I’m not saying that this is the only website that it has happened on at all, I’ve seen some pretty nasty stuff posted about him over on CBR). That would be difficult for anyone to take, and I challenge anyone to put up with reading the sorts of things that he has to read about himself before responding in some way. Whether he reacted in the right way, as I have said is hugely debatable and I’m sure if Slott had a time machine he would at least consider retracting a couple of the things he has said. He is only human after all. I really hope that everyone concerned can move on from the whole sorry affair now, even though that seems pretty unlikely at this stage.
Great editorial Brad. Thank you for adding some much needed perspective to this debacle.
I feel bad for him. On the one hand of course he’s gonna want to glance at the many websites that are out there to hear how the fans are reacting to his work, but on the other hand, he’s too emotionally invested into all this. I can definitly see how anyone can become too obsessed with anything online, but it just looks so pathetic when people are having these kind of fights with people they don’t even know, where you don’t even know how old they are. He really should just try to avoid reading any of these sites, but I know that’s gonna be hard, probably too hard. (putting your own blocks on your own computers to stop yourself isn’t gonna do it)
Can’t we all just be friends?
Well, here’s hoping anyway…I also notice Mr. Wacker hasn’t said anything about blocking us from HIS computer…Oh, well.
Hey, maybe we can ask Santa if he can help out!
“Dear Santa, for Christmas this year, I’d like to have an outbreak of peace between Marvel (the company that brings us Spider-Man), and the CrawlSpace (the website that loves Spider-Man).”
I hope Santa can do it. I’ve been pretty good this year…well, except for that one thing…and that other thing…and that one REALLY BAD thing…
Crap… 🙁
Hopefully this draws a line under the whole business. It’s been a bit embarrassing for all involved really. Well written Editorial as ever Brad, keep it up.
AMFam15,
Several months ago he said he blocked this site from his computer. So we’ve heard that argument before.
Very nice editorial, Brad. Hopefully this will be the last we hear about this debacle, since Mr. Slott says he’s blocked the CrawlSpace from both of his computers. Frankly, I think that’s for the best.
Venomaniac,
Yes, I know it later came out that the poster intended it to be joke. Slott originally didn’t take it as a joke.
Lertting you know Brad (I’m surprised you hadn’t heard) the person who insulted Slott was actually doing it as a joke (he brought it up in the post where he blamed Crawlspace).
As long as they’re not personal attacks go for it. I’d love to hear your 2 cents.
Good editorial BD. I have a lot of feelings about this whole mess but don’t want to blow up about so i’ve kept my comments to myself.
Disappointed in Slott and the relationship between him and his critics. I’m also disappointed about his view of this website.
A pity Slott will never read this.
Kidding, I’m sure someone will let him know the gist off it, nice piece BD, you come across a guy disappointed in Slott more than anything else, I share the same feeling,