AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #636
“The Grim Hunt, Chapter 3”
Writer: Joe Kelly and Zeb Wells
Penciler: Marco Checchetto and Michael Lark
Inker: Marco Checchetto and Stefano Gaudiano
Colorist: Matt Hollingsworth
“Hunting the Hunter, Part Three: War”
Writer: J.M. DeMatteis
Penciler: Emma Rios and Max Fiumara
Inker: Emma Rios and Max Fiumara
Colorist: Fabio D’Auria
“Spidey Sunday Story Part Three”
Writer: Stan Lee
Penciler: Marcos Martin
Inker: Marcos Martin
Colorist: Muntsa Vicente
Cover Art: Mike Fyles
Variant Cover Art: Esad Ribic
Be warned – there are SPOILERS ahead!
Like the previous two, this issue has a main story and two backups, including a brief two-pager. I’ll focus primarily on the main feature and pepper in the backups as I go.
The Plot
The newly-resurrected Kraven meets his family and learns that he’s some kind of immortal zombie. The “Spider-Man” they killed last issue is revealed to have been Kaine. Kraven wants Spidey to hunt him (in the black suit).
The Good
This issue is drawn primarily by Marco Checchetto instead of Michael Lark. The reason this paragraph appears here is that I actually like Checchetto’s work a lot, much more than Lark’s. It’s hard to describe, but his work has a jagged smoothness to it. The guys look like they were carved out of marble, the women are sexy and move with fluidity and grace, the light and shadow are well-balenced … in short, this guy is the perfect artist for a Spider-Man book. It blows my mind that we don’t see him more often in the rotation, because I’ve loved all of his work on the title so far, as sparingly as he has been used.
The backup story by DeMatteis is very good. The man clearly has a good grasp of both Kraven and Kaine, and he turns what would be an ordinary fight story into a character study. He gets a lot of flak sometimes for delving into psychobabble, but I like the approach here. We even get to see Kaine put his burning touch to an interesting use.
The Bad
I liked the first two issues of this arc, but this third installment drops the ball. Badly.
The main issue here is that the entire main story is filler. Kraven meets his family again, he mopes around a little, they discover that he has been given the “unlife” (which I assume to be some sort of zombie-like immortality), and they find out that Kaine was actually the man in the Spider-suit. Not only did they take 22 pages to detail events that could have been done in at least half that space, but they take 22 pages to detail events that could have been done in at least half that space and were plainly obvious to anybody that read the last issue. (Go ahead and read last issue’s review. I called all of these things.)
Now that we know for certain that Kaine is the one in the suit, let’s revisit that idea. According to my handy copy of Marvel Encyclopedia Volume 4: Spider-Man, Peter Parker is 5’10”/165 lbs. Kaine goes 6’4”/250 lbs. How could a roomful of people that have all fought Spider-Man before possibly mistake Kaine for Spider-Man? That’s like hunting for Tobey Maguire in a Spider-Man suit and coming across Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Spider-Man suit – anybody with functioning eyeballs would be able to tell the difference, let alone a bunch of people that should easily recognize an opponent that they have all encountered multiple times. It’s a critical flaw with the plot of this arc that sends the entire thing crashing down to the ground, like a house of cards built on a table with Jenga towers for legs.
Another thing that really pissed me off was the overwrought scene at the end, in which Peter bursts out of the grave screaming. Clearly, it was included as an homage to a similar scene from Kraven’s Last Hunt. As shown in the flashback, Kaine took Peter’s costume after Peter had fallen into the open grave. Kaine knocked Peter out and ran off to his ultimate demise. Now, let’s backtrack. Peter burst out of a grave that was full of dirt. Who buried him? It wasn’t Kaine, because that wouldn’t make any sense. Besides, Kaine didn’t have the time for that. That means that somebody dumped six feet of dirt onto a guy that was clearly alive. Then, that same person didn’t bother to tell anybody that they buried a dude in his underwear laying unconscious in an open grave. Say what?
And really, Kaine’s death bothers me. What did he die for? “He died to save Peter’s life,” says the audience. True, except that his death resurrected the villain. So Peter could still be hunted, with the strong possibility of getting his ass handed to him again. Kaine’s death has no meaning to it, because it’s a pointless sacrifice. If Kaine really wanted to help, he would have carried Peter to safety instead of essentially helping to resurrect the bad guy. That contradicts the entire premise of his death.
I continue to be against the idea of Kraven being resurrected. What’s the point? He got a very fitting sendoff in the criminally-under-read Soul of the Hunter. That brings me to another point … this arc seems to continue to ignore Soul of the Hunter to the point that it makes me wonder if the Webheads are even aware of its existence. (A few readers were a little confused when I referenced this fantastic book last month, so allow me a moment to briefly explain the plot. Peter and Mary Jane attend the funeral of their friend Roger’s mother, and Peter has several chilling flashbacks to his own time in the coffin from Kraven’s Last Hunt. He walks out of the viewing and into a lobby, where he’s confronted by Mary Jane. Angrily, he storms off and changes into Spider-Man, but that only leads to more flashbacks before he returns to the funeral. That night, Peter is distracted by these events, and Mary Jane comforts him – which, by the way, is the kind of great scene that reminds us why a married Spider-Man works. It’s my favorite scene from a book chock full of good scenes, so I fired up the scanner to share it with you below, if you don’t mind a few small ink splotches from my artwork stuck to the scanner bed. Anyway, during the night, Peter has a strange vision of Kraven’s ghost, which is stuck in a state of limbo because he committed suicide. The rest of the story involves Spider-Man’s quest to help free Kraven’s soul from this transitional state while also coming to grips with his own near-death experience. It’s a great, powerful, emotional story of life and love by the team of DeMatteis, Zeck, and McLeod, and I highly recommend it to everyone.) The main point of Soul of the Hunter was to give closure to both Kraven and Spider-Man. The fact that Spider-Man saved Kraven’s soul should be a pretty good reason why Kraven would call off the hunt … except that he doesn’t. In fact, he escalates it. I really have no words to explain how infuriating that is.
Oh yeah … and why didn’t Kaine degenerate like all the other clones?
The Ugly
Fill-ins. This issue is a fill-in-a-palooza, with a co-writer, a co-artist, and even a co-artist for the backup. Wasn’t the point of using multiple writers and multiple artists in rotation to give arcs a sense of continuity? I really have to wonder what’s going on behind-the-scenes given the increasing regularity of these fill-ins …
The Bottom Line
I liked the first two issues of this arc, in spite of their flaws, but this issue was a disappointment. All of the momentum built up by the first two installments is gone. It’s inexcusable for a $3.99 issue to feel this empty and unfulfilling. 1.5 out of 5 webheads.
As promised, here are two pages of a book that is actually GOOD …
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Vanom and Carnage are to Sci Fi for Siderman?!?! A Comic based on a kid getting super powers from a radio active spider?
What spidey fan just said about there being no rips on Kaine’s Spidey costume could mean he has his own costume tailored to his size. Still doesn’t answer how the Kravens didn’t notice the size difference. Damn I want resolutions to these minor errors.
What about Jessica Drew? She should be on the Grim Hunt storyline?
She is Spider-Woman…
Great review Gerard, and spot on in my opinion.
We knew it would be Kaine in the costume, but it seems the “Brain Trust” decided to completely ignore canon and somehow shave 6 inches off of Kaine’s height and 85 pounds in mass because it furthers the story. Never mind that Kaine did not have enough time to knock Peter out, strip him, stitch up his costume (it was ripped in several places when Pete fell in the grave & showed no rips when Kaine fought the Hunters), and bury Peter to keep him from being found. LOTS of plot holes in this one and yes, it dropped the ball and came across as nothing more than a filler issue.
Venom and Carnage’s appearances harbingered the beginning of the end for spider-man comics. They were the products of their time (the gimmick era of the 90’s). Their mere existence contradicted what I call a fairly-grounded-in-reality world of Spidey because they were frigging alien symbiotes! That was too sci-fi for spider-man. But more importantly they were just plain stupid villains with very lame characterizations. But they were too popular. The writers soon ran outta steam with them. Then the Clone Saga started . I think they damaged the spider-man comics so badly it took them so long to mend them (of course before they break them again with OMD!)
Venom also single-handedly ruined the third act of my beloved spider-man movie trilogy. i ‘ll never forgive him for that
Tell that to the collecters who value ASM 300 so much, and the LCS that has to constantly restock Venom books, and the Marvel website that sites both Venom and Carnage as the top villians search on their site. Symbiots FTW!!!
I think those two have attained classic status, haven’t they?
venom and Carnage? those two irrevocably ruined the spider-man comics forever!
Ok you cant knock a villian becuase they are new. If the book never tried any new villians we wouldnt have characters like Venom and Carnage. I for one actually think Mr. Negative has a lot of potential and could be a classic in time.
@Bryan – i agree with you buddy but lets give this one a benefit of the doubt until it wraps up, ok?
@Bryan – you can’t just lump everybody like that. Some people, like persian-spider, are enjoying the story but are fully aware of its flaws. If I choose to like a particular storyline it doesn’t mean I agree with the overall direction of the book.
I just this issue a few hours ago and the scene of what happened to Spidey after Kraven’s resurection was freakin’ BRUTAL.And then finding out it wasn’t really Peter who died left on the edge of my seat.I am really enjoying this story and helped me return to Amazing since the begining of BND.
i also think that The lizards’s son should turn into a lizard and then spider-man has to baby sit him all the time.
undead Kraven hunter is a cool concept – i wanna see ghost rider worked in there somewhere too
no, there’s nothing to wait for. It’s all wrong and anyone who says otherwise is a Joe quesada stooge who’s never read real spider-man. Anyone who likes this is a young punk who thinks menace, freak and mr. negative are classic spider-man villains.
Although I have had nothing but disgust for the BND Amazing spider-man I gotta confess that I have been enjoying this arc pretty much and I also acknowledge all the continuity errors so far (e.g. I still don’t understand how Kaine could replace Peter so fast in the grave in a way that nobody took notice of it because it all happened so fast and not even super-powered clones are that fast!) but I think we should wait for the final issue to come out and then pass verdict. Maybe it will address some of these inconsistencies!
Shenanigans!!!
Look, kiddies. I’m all for letting a story stand on its merits, but when a continuity error is so jarring you can’t enjoy the story, then something’s wrong.
Behold! Kaine from The Lost Years: http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4589/lostyears2.jpg
And Kaine from Spider-man #608-609 “Who Was Ben Reilly? http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6497/kaineasm608.jpg
It would be nice if these errors would be addressed in the next issues.
I can’t help but wonder… Mattie Franklin and Kaine being killed and arguably a more obscure character at this point in the Grim Hunter being revived… are these deaths going to permanent? I can see Marvel at least undoing Mattie’s death and re-killing Grim.
“Sasha got all her knowledge of spidey from books, not from experience which is what counts”
Agreed, but that doesn’t make my statement wrong, it actually backs up my statement on how Kaine could have been mistaken for Spider-man. I’m trying to remember if she’s EVER fought Spider-man up close while in his costume. Remember, the first time they fought, Spidey was wearing DD’s costume, and at the beginning of the Grim Hunt, she was webbed to a water tower pretty early. Not a great excuse, but at least plausible. I believe fully in continuity, but I also believe in letting the story stand on it’s merit, and so far, I think it’s been pretty darn good.
Sasha got all her knowledge of spidey from books, not from experience which is what counts
Besides when it comes down to it, anything involving spideys identity can be wish-washed away with that god awful psychic blindspot explanation marvel cooked up, which is the single biggest thing I hate about these new stories.
I only see one person saying that people who like the book are wrong and he’s is 100% wrong in saying that naturally, you should know that without having to make a snide remark about it. Some people want to see a rich in continuity story, some people want a fun story and aren’t obsessed with it adhering to every single piece of continuity. Just like some people want every spidey story to follow a formula and some people want to see it do new stuff.
Different strokes for different folks, no ones opinion is wrong Tim and you know that already.
Jonny, I’m not making it personal. Read the comments before, and see how people are treated who say they do like it. I will never tell anyone whether or not they should like an issue, but if there are holes in the argument, I will call foul, and expect someone to do the same for me if they have a take other than mine. This website has gotten away from that over the past year, and that’s why I don’t bother with it as much anymore.
Secondly, the whole issue where Vin is being hunted, Sasha’s internal dialogue is based on how much they know about Spider-man’s character, and she still made a huge mistake.
People who don’t like the issue are also glad they don’t have to have someone elses permission to not like the issue, don’t try and make little skirmishs like this “personal,” people like stuff and people aren’t gonna tell you what you have to like and what not to like.
Vin at least was the same size of Peter, and maybe they took his pleading as a sign of how supreme they are, after all they never met spider-man before then, how do they know his character?
Maybe Madame Web made Kaine appear smaller. Or maybe the people who tried to kill a powerless, pleading Vin Gonzalez that THEY THEMSELVES dressed as Spider-man aren’t as smart as the average reader who is looking for something to find wrong with the issue. Either way, like Farley said, I’m glad I don’t have to have someone else’s permission to like the issue.
Farley, that cover a few months back had Kaine hoisting Spidey off the ground like a grown man holding a teenager. Their sizes are drastically different. Come on.
Anyone who liked this is wrong. Forget about BND, true Spider-fans know this series went to shit ever since they resurrected Norman Osborne in the mid 90’s. True Spidey = ASM 1 – 400, those were the greatest comic stories ever told and the series should have ended there.
I agree with TimmyG.
Hey, I just finished the book and I need to respectfully disagree with a few points. I agree that some aspects were not totaly thought out in presentation. Kaine is bigger than spidey (or was) and it would be hard to confuse the two even tho they are clones. I have noticed in the second story Kaines size has been scaled down to be more like peters so maybe they were atleast aware of this or maybe he’s been getting smaller by degenerating (but it is still a minor flaw). And I agree with the whole how the heck was spider-man burried part. Its possible that the hunters burried him like they staged finding the casket and black costume but its a weak explanation becuase they would have seen his face. Those two points I essentially agree with the review btu I feel they are minor. At its core this book acknowledges the Last Hunt and doesn’t take away from that issue and Kraven definatly did not want to be revived, and I feel he tried to kill himself by knowing how his daughter would react. I think it does spit in the face of soul of the hunter somewhat becuase Kraven should have no desire to hunt Spider-man anymore, but he is getting a second chance at killing Spidey and at his core I think his obsession would win out over hsi honor most of the time. I think this book was expertly penciled and inked (to me worth a minimum 2 stars) and the store is great but is weakened by the oversights pointed out in this review. To me its abotu 3 stars, the other books in the arc are about 4-5 stars.
Would Peter’s costume have even fitted Kaine without tearing?
Maybe due to cellular degeneration Kaine’s hair has turned into a heavy substance, accounting for 85 lbs of weight and 6 inchs of height, therefore when he trimmed himself he went back to just Peter?
@Nate: 😆
@TimmyG: As seen in previews, we already know he will.
@Aquashark: That would be a good way to end the story, and one that actually jives with previous continuity. Nice work!
@Berserkfury819: That feeling seems to be unanimous among people that read Soul of the Hunter. I really don’t understand why it has never been reprinted. I mean, it would go perfectly with all of these Kraven’s Last Hunt reprints that we see every few years — not only story-wise, but because it’s by the same creative team, too.
@Farley Stillwell:
(1) Yes, we assume he could still be brought back from the dead after the events of Soul of the Hunter. The point is that at the end of that story, his soul was at peace, and he and Spider-Man were FRIENDS. The second he was brought back, you don’t think that would be something significant? The very first thing he should have done was choke-slam Sasha and tell the kids to f**k off. In fact, continuing the hunt is the complete opposite of what he should have done.
Don’t make me post the page of Spidey hugging Kraven’s ghost. 😛
(2) It doesn’t matter what Kraven is wearing, he’s six inches taller and nearly a hundred pounds heavier. He was drawn larger even as recently the “Who Was Ben Reilly?” arc and his brief appearance during the Gauntlet. They changed his size suddenly as a matter of convenience to make the plot work.
Good review. I may not buy anything Marvel related anymore (exept the Spider-girl digits), but it’s always good to keep oneself up to date in case of a change at the helm, so to speak.
I know I’m gonna regret this, but what contradictions? If you’re referring to “Soul of the Hunter” I don’t see a contradiction. Kraven was dead in that, and his soul was in limbo, after that his soul was free, but he was still dead. In Grim Hunt he’ brought back from the dead. Where’s the contradiction?
As for Kaine being bigger than Spidey, and the last time he did that he was instantly recognised, well, that’s because he was wearing his Kaine costume ( complete with spiky bits ) UNDER the Spidey costume, pretty noticeable, as opposed to this ( and last ) issue with a fast-paced fight in the dark, and Kaine wearing more conventional attire under the Spidey costume.
@Nate: The Writers Maybe Forgot.
Farley, so the contradictions to past stories don’t bother you? Or are you waiting to see if OMIT will alter continuity of Fearful Symmetry/Soul of the Hunter DC style?
@Nate, thanks for the laugh. That would be a bitchin’ twist.
lolZ at Bryan’s hissy fit.
please review the book and tell me what hapens – not just the jist.
aslo… that mary jane scene is noting special. Spider-Man: Blue- best.
With this arc the spidey brain trust has tied up all the clone loose ends and found a way to get spidey in his black suit to lead into OMIT. Maybe its just me, but I wish Pete had died and it forced kaine to wear the black suit for a while til they found a way to bring him back. Or at least that the banner arc for this year actually had some gravity to it instead of being just another story that features a villain. At this point the only thing in the gauntlet that mattered was the daily bugle getting leveled. Utter rubbish and i feel cheated.
So who buried Peter in the grave? Answer: Michele Gonzales. That bitch!
Gerard is absolutely right. This issue blatantly ignored continuity, and also disregards two of the greatest Spidey stories ever told, “Kraven’s Last Hunt” and “Soul of the Hunter.” I know no one cares, especially Marvel, but I am NEVER buying ASM again. I love this character, I grew up with him, I have every issue of ASM from 227 to almost 400, and I’ve kept buying this crap out of my love for this character, but you know what? The Spidey I love is long dead. This might as well be something different. I have hundreds of back issues I can always read of the character I love. I’m done.
I love Soul of the Hunter!
I don’t know, I thought the issue was okay. I do agree with the “filler” comment and all the potentially easily-avoided continuity flaws, but I’m glad they at least portrayed Kraven as rather reluctant to be living again and rather angry at his family. I won’t be disappointed until the last part lets me down. A part of me still hopes that he’s organizing this “hunt” in order to get his family put away, thank Spider-Man in person for sending his soul to rest previously, and perhaps finding a way to return to that peaceful, dead state.
Gerard points out some compelling stuff. For those of us who care about continuity, I call shenanigans.
I think it would be nice to see spider-man in the black suit again.
why didnt kaine degenerate like ben? simple, HE’S the real spiderman! Kraven isnt a zombie he’s just batshit crazy! You heard it from me first!
Farley, while I’m truly glad you’re getting some enjoyment out of ASM, you can’t reasonably overlook so many plotholes and WTF moments. While many point to anti-BNDers as sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to acknowledge any goodness in ASM anymore, you’ve done the same thing with pretty much every review from Gerard. No offense meant here, but think about it.
I’m really disturbed that talk of death seems to get both Peter and Mary Jane in the mood.
“Peter when I was six I watched a guy die and do nothing”
“Like throwing off a coat?”
“Let’s ****”.
@Farley Stillwell: I liked the first two parts of the story too, but this issue was a huge disappointment — and it’s my “job” to convey that feeling, not to sell books for Marvel.
@Jonny: Thanks for the support as always, man.
Good review, anyone that tells you off for paying attention to continuity and plot logic shouldn’t be paid any heed Gerard, just keep backing your grades up with justified comments and you’ll do just fine.
1.5 out of 5???? Whatever. I’m loving this story and am glad I don’t use these reviews to make my decision to buy ASM.