AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #605 REVIEW

52 Comments

1. @ Jay,

2. Spanish Fly,

   You and I disagree in our perception and expectations of MJ. You imagine her as someone that would never complain about her relationship with Peter, but I am not sure why since she did this before BND on several occasions as well. I will grant you that she never dropped the bombs like she did in Amazing #605, particularly the lines regarding Uncle Ben. This scene did stretch my credulity when I first read it. I’m not sure the old MJ would have gone there, but it is possible. I found the scene to be heart breaking, but not altogether unrealistic. That is what made it so interesting to me.

   You and I also disagree about what realistic relationships are like. People argue, and not everyone’s arguments “certainly end in five or ten minutes or hours with “I love yous”…and MUCH more”. (Did you really just write that?) Sometimes these arguments can contribute or lead to broken relationships.

   Lastly, BD has rightly asked that we refrain from personal attacks. I agree with him. I also presume this includes personal attacks that are directed towards me.

3. And by MY experiance with MY wife, arguments “in the heat of the moment” certaingly end in five or ten minutes or hours with “I love yous”…and MUCH more. I don’t what world you live in, but it’s a very negative one if you seriously think upbeat understanding role models like Peter and MJ would ever stoop to conversations like they one they have here. Maybe you ought to reconsider what kind of people live in your world and get to know people that live in worlds like mine. In short, get a steady relationship.

4. …And, just to back up those versions of MJ with reality, my grandparents are a nurse and a cop, and they’ve had to hold secrets…not once did they have bad words. Not ONE. Peter and MJ have always reminded me of my grandparents when in-character. Anything Marvel “add” post-marraige is utterly superficial and designed to make MJ and Peter look bad when we ALL know they would NEVER act like this. Peter is not a jackass, MJ would not grow tired of her lifestyle, she would BALANCE it. She was HAPPY in her relationship and I won’t stand for people like you throwing out this argument she would.

5. Jay, STAN and TOM’s MJ is perfectly fine with Peter’s life and doesnt voice any displeasure at it, she’s a resposible, understanding friend, TRUE to her character. The BND MJ does not represen the true version of the character, so these moments where MJ “stands up and complains” is out-of-character and doesnt apply.

   The real MJ would not act like this. You are arguing over things that would not happen and would not be expected of them…thus, there is no reason to get heated. BND is not Spider-Man. It is a parody of Spider-Man.

6. Would 43 replies from me saying I love the way you rip on the books in your reviews count?

7. I look forward to the day I get 43 comments on a review 😉

8. @Jay — I perfectly understand. I just questioned your use of rhetoric in arguing with Bailey’s points.

   And to go back to the whole MJ being in a similar situation with Carr as she was with Peter, I do agree that it’s clear Van Lente was comparing and contrasting Peter and Carr in this story. Carr (as Dan Slott in his “Paper Doll” story in which the character first appeared) certainly appeared to care about MJ in that he was attentive to her, wanted to know more about her, spend time with her, etc. but in reality only cared about himself and that is “secret identity” via taking MGH and being a DEA informant was all meant to protect his reputation as a Hollywood heartthrob. By contrast, Peter, from MJ’s perspective, was taking her for granted, spending more time as Spider-Man than he did with her, and thus making her feel under-appreciated; yet his “secret identity” was used to help others and to protect those he loved, especially MJ. I believe the incident involving Carr and the White Rabbit and MJ’s flashbacks of her argument with Peter was Van Lente’s intention to show MJ just how wrong she was, and that rather than trying to deal with it, she ran away and was reverting back to happy go-lucky, shallow party girl persona she uses to mask and hide her emotional pain–which she has done in the past whenever she was emotionally cornered. Her rescuing Carr was to show just how much Peter had changed her for the better, that she’s a lot braver and stronger than even she might have believed and that she’s come a long way from being the “pretty but shallow” woman she originally came across as. And yeah, I do indeed believe it’s evident (especially in other comics besides this one) that MJ did regret how things turned out between herself and Peter and is trying to make amends, the difficulty being whether or not she wants to get back together with Peter in light of why they might have broken up in the first place, not to mention seeing the shoe on the other foot with Peter being involved with other women, especially the Black Cat.

9. Hi stillanerd,

   I enjoyed your comment on my review of Michael’s review. It was almost a review of a review of a review! ☺

   I disagree with you on the Bunny Brigade scene. I don’t think there is anyway that the MJ I know would consider fleeing and leaving Bobby to die if it were not for Peter’s words. She would not just leave him there to die and walk away. Perhaps Peter’s words echoed in her head during this moment, but I can’t see her making any other choice.

   You are correct that MJ breaks up with Bobby because he is a jackass. Still, the fact that MJ recognizes that she is in a similar situation to the one she fled with Peter is relevant here. I did not mean to suggest that she broke up with Bobby simply because she realized this situation had similarities to her relationship with Peter. I like your read on this scene though, speculating that maybe MJ is regretting how things turned out with Peter even more now. She heads back to NY, attends the wedding, and has made some efforts to reconnect. I hope you’re on the right track here.

   I also see your point on the scene with Michelle and Peter. There was definitely an attempt to use the Parker Luck for comedic effect here, and I can also she how some people might not like making light of domestic battery, although to me that seems a bit of a stretch given that Michelle Gonzalez is punching a guy that has taken shots from the Hulk and is no worse for wear, which only serves to further add to the comedy. And I stand by my description of that scene. Michelle would rightly have been extremely angry at Peter here, and possibly even have felt goaded into taking a swing at him.

   I certainly didn’t mean any offense when I said that I didn’t know if Michael had been through a divorce and whether or not that might be what lead him to dismiss MJ’s feelings in her relationship with Peter as comparatively trivial. I don’t know why someone would think that MJ and Peter had a trivial relationship, that is all. I doubt that Michael really feels that way, it is just that that is the way his review sounded.

10. Oh, phew. I see what you mean, thank goodness.

    Again, as I have said above in response to George, I tried to be clear that I was not accusing Michael of pandering or catering. I worried and even suspected at first that this might have been what he was doing, but I was careful to say that I had no way of knowing if this was the case.

    Since my first post and after reading many of these comments, I will say again that I do not believe Michael was pandering or catering to anyone in his review. I will apologize again (is this the 3rd or the 4th time now?) if anyone was offended by that. I did say, in my original post, “Of course, these are just guesses and it wouldn’t be right for me to formulate strong opinions based these suppositions…”. I agree with you that that paragraph sounded confrontational and I am sorry for that. Like MJ’s words to Peter, sometimes you say things that you later regret.

11. Jay,
    You missed the point. Re-read what I wrote. The word “bastard” can fill in for whatever insult you’d like.

12. What? BD, where did I call anyone a bastard? I don’t understand!

13. Jay, you said that ” we are seeing, for the first time, an intense and private moment in the lives of Peter and MJ that we have never been shown before” The fact is that there were many, MANY intense and private moments between Pete & MJ that we saw over the years, over things far more serious than him being gone for 4 days, and her reaction was never this one. Not every argument ended 5 minutes later with hugs and “I love yous” either. There were arguments, there were separations, there were temptations, and there were all the ups and downs any relationship would have. That’s why the marriage became so real to a lot of us in the first place. After reading all of those stories, a scene like this just looks badly written and phoney. To boil down an entire relationship into one argument in which both people, out of character, are being completely selfish is disingenuous and insulting to those of us who had watched this relationship grow and blossom from the start. Again, not a good piece of writing at all.

14. Jay,
    Calling a person a bastard and then ending the paragraph by saying you hope you didn’t offend him doesn’t’ take away the fact you called him a bastard. Seriously, it’s a comic and avoid the personal attacks. This sentence really was out of time and insulting.

    “I suspect it may have been partly an effort to put on a superficial air of authority and partly an attempt to pander or cater to the sensibilities of some of the readers”

15. @Jay–Ironically, in your harsh review of the Michael Bailey’s review, I believe you misinterpreted things (especially the MJ story) as you criticized Bailey of doing. You said that “While Peter’s words were pertinent to MJ’s situation with the Bunny Brigade, I do not think MJ was reflecting on this sage advice to help her decide what to do. A different literary device was at work here, simply overlaying Peter’s past words on a different scene and experience MJ was having.” But that exactly WHY those scenes were juxtaposed together. She saw Carr was about to be killed, she had a flashback to argument with Peter when he told her that “if you ever find yourself in a situation where you had to act, don’t do what I did, which was nothing,” and then she attacks them and rescues Carr. And you saying “Does anyone actually think that MJ was indecisive here, and that were it not for Peter’s words, she might have done something else, such as sneak out the back door and run?” is precisely the point. What other interpretation could there be?

    Also, you make mention that “MJ has been trying to put her troubled relationship with Peter behind her, and here she realizes that she has fallen into a situation not entirely unlike the one she was fleeing.” While she certainly was trying to run away from her past relationship with Peter, she didn’t break up with Carr because she realized she was in a similar situation that she fled from. She broke up with Carr because she finally realized that he was a complete ass who cared more about himself and his public image than doing the right thing, whereas Peter–the guy whom she thought was being selfish and inconsiderate because he seemed to place more importance on being Spider-Man than maintaining his relationship with MJ–was a much better and thus more “successful” man, in that he was willing to help others no matter what the personal cost to himself was. She realized that she made a mistake, and that her not wanting to be “just the girl” or “damsel in distress” was turning her into someone she didn’t want to be–someone just as self-absorbed and inconsiderate as her current boyfriend, Bobby Carr, proved himself to be.

    Also, in your summary of the whole Peter and Michele situation, the emphasis on this particular subplot was not so much that Michele was the unknowing victim of terrible circumstances (although she clearly was) but rather how Peter was inconvenienced by it, and how it played this entire situation involving these two–and continue to do so–entirely for laughs and try to chalk up as another example of “Parker Luck.” Her hitting Peter is not being depicted to emphasize how hurt and angry Michele is but rather for comedy over how, once again, Peter messed things up between him and Michele even more when he tried to tell her the truth. THAT’S what I think people would truly find offensive about this, because it takes a situation in which a woman was clearly physically and emotionally taken advantage of and turns it into comedy over how the main character is saddled with a psycho control-freak for a roommate/girlfriend, and thus her character IS, as Bailey mentioned, “a vapid, two dimensional character that is a string of bad clichés about crazy women.”

    You may feel free to disagree, just as you disagreed with Bailey’s review and just as I disagreed with some things in Bailey’s review about the MJ story. But I certainly do think accusing him of “pandering to the audience”, being “superficial”, and even somehow suggesting Bailey was being insensitive to the female characters and wondering if he’s ever been though a divorce as part of your criticism was a bit much.

16. George, I did not accuse Michael of pandering. I suggested this was a possible motive behind the review and I said that I hoped this was not the case. I even pointed out that it wouldn’t be right for me to presume what his intentions were. Then, at the end of my post, I apologized anyway if I had offended Michael or anyone else. From reading your comments, I get the feeling that you are right and that Michael was not pandering or catering to anyone in his review. You know him better than I do and I trust your take on this.

    I thoroughly detailed my disagreements with Michael’s review, point by point, partly because I did not want anyone to think that I was simply disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I don’t see much point in that. Prior to my post some other people were responding with what amounted to virtual high-5s, reveling in the zero out of five rating, some even before they had even read the comic themselves. I really do wonder how someone could honestly give this issue a zero.

    As I mentioned, I really strongly disliked the whole BND retcon. I have nothing at all against Michael, I simply did not agree with his review.

17. While I agree that this was one of the weakest issues since BND started (The absolute lowest still being the Jackpot annual reveal and anything written by Bob Gale.) It didn’t upset me as much as Michael, it just kinda bored me.
    The first story was okay. I think MJ had some legitimate reasons why things realistically would be a strain on a relationship. (Someone disappears for weeks and you have no idea if they’ve died or not, but you can’t just run to the police because you run the risk of exposing their secret.) Sure we’ve seen this argument in the books before, and just because MJ had previously reached the conclusion to stick it out doesn’t mean that the issue was decisively “put to rest.” People change their minds all the time. Anyways, I did like the new M.O. for the White Rabbit; seems appropriate, even though it’s not enough to erase her goofier previous appearances.

    Models Stink and the following Internet Dating stories however, were a very hard read. I found myself kind’ve skimming over several panels of dialogue. Utilizing the recent Marvel Halloween costumes into the fashion show was kind’ve cute for a cheap plug though, and Harry secretly dating one of Pete’s cousins, while potentially interesting, runs the risk of having another supporting character married into Pete’s family, which would just be rediculous.

18. Love how Jay throws out “I hope I haven’t offended anyone – in particular Michael Bailey” and “We all have our own opinions and I respect that” after saying Mike was “pandering” and making an “effort at a superficial air of authority.”

    Bailey’s one of the best natural reviewers I’ve seen in the decade that I’ve been reading (and for many years writing) comic reviews and one of the most objective and unbiased – in truth the Crawl Space is lucky to have had many good reviewers here in that regard, including Crazy Chris. Mike’s also not pretentious at all, which is something I enjoy a great deal because in the last ten years I’ve read some really truly pretentious reviews – and I include myself in that number. In the time I’ve known him and followed his work I’ve seen him stand his ground on his opinions. Someone who just wanted to “pander” to a certain set would cave on their opinions often, which Bailey doesn’t.

    In the back of my head I was wondering how long it would take for someone to attack Bailey or his review for perceived “negativity” while forgetting or conveniently overlooking the fact that he’s liked the Brandnewverse for the most part thus far. I know a lot of folks in the Crawl Space community wouldn’t agree with Mike’s assessment of the current Spider-Man stories but at the same time they respect and like him and enjoy the reviews he does for this site and his own. He doesn’t have to write a negative review to “fit in” or make an “effort at a superficial air of authority” – whatever the Hell that means.

    If you don’t agree with what he wrote that’s fantastic. No one can respect that more than Bailey. “Superficial” authority? The guy’s already credibility it through the podcasts and reviews he turns in, here and elsewhere, and by being an honest and engaging member of the this community and others. And accusing him of “pandering” – especially when you look at his reviews here and elsewhere – is laughable, asinine and absurd.

19. I wish we could edit our posts here for typos. How I hate them… 🙂

20. I don’t entirely disagree with you, Scooter. I had a similar feeling at first when I was reading that portion of the comic. It definitely hurt to see MJ talking to Peter like that, but I decided that it wasn’t a totally unrealistic conversation for them to be having. We aren’t privy to all of the stresses going on in MJ’s life at the time of this conversation, but (as in this issue) they might include her career and self-esteem issues in addition to her concern for Peter after a four-day absence, dissatisfaction with the way their relationship is going, etc. Regardless, MJ cracks and says some things that I’m sure she regrets. I’m not sure if, as you say, the old MJ would never, ever have said these things to Peter. Again, you might be right, or it might alternatively be that we are seeing, for the first time, an intense and private moment in the lives of Peter and MJ that we have never been shown before. I know that there have been times that I have said things in the heat of anger that I regretted later and I’m sure most people can relate to this. It makes the moment all the more painful, actually. We can’t take back the things we say in the heat of the moment. This is a sophisticated portrayal of a mature, intense relationship. Because we value the relationship between Peter and MJ it is painful for us to watch this scene, but just because we wish that this wouldn’t have happened doesn’t mean that it is an unrealistic conversation for them to be having. Arguments happen, and in real life they don’t always end five minutes 5 panels later with a hug and “I love you’s”.

21. Holy hell … 30 comments?! I think it’s safe to say this was a pretty polarizing review. 😉

22. Uh oh… Delta vs Zeta, round two…

23. Jay, while I agree, to a point, that Michael may have been a bit too hard in his review, I have to take issue with your assessment of Pete & MJ’s argument. Anyone who watched the relationship between the characters over the past 20 years before OMD knows that a conversation like that would never take place between these Pete & MJ. Heck, anyone who read issue 545 should know that MJ would NEVER, EVER speak to him like that or throw events of his past which have affected his entire life in his face like that. This is, after all, the same character who gave away the love of her life just so he could have his aunt back and be happy. If she was portrayed like that in an issue that is universally regarded as one of the worst Spider-man stories in the history of the character, why is she all of a sudden being portrayed like this? The Mary Jane I knew would have been far more sensitive. When did she ever swear at him like that? NEVER. Not even in the midsts of the clone saga when she had ever reason to. These were two people that truly loved each other, not a pair of insensitive selfish individuals who only thought about themselves. I happen to love Van Lente’s work on this book, but found that scene completely offensive. Perhaps this scene was intended to be a reflection of what modern relationships are. Perhaps it was supposed to reflect the mentality of the CW crowd. Regardless of the reasons, it was bad characterization, and certainly not an “amazing” piece of writing.

24. *reads Jay’s comment above*

    Let the games begin…*rubs hands together*

25. i wasnt for me a bad issue. I think it was a very good comic about the relationship between mj and peter and it doesnt deserve the zero. Excuse me but it what i think.

26. I believed this was an epilogue to Red Headed Stranger is that the editorial team called it as such. Look on the inside cover at the top of the credits box and it says, “RED HEADED STRANGER Epilogue”

    And I am sorry that I don’t see any humor in a woman hitting a man out of anger because if the tables were turned there would be outrage.

    I’d write more but I have to get to work.

27. This is one of the worst reviews I have read all year. Seriously. I didn’t like it.

    I am not sure what motivated MichaelBailey to write a review like this, although I suspect it may have been partly an effort to put on a superficial air of authority and partly an attempt to pander or cater to the sensibilities of some of the readers (including some of the people that have commented on this review) and be “part of the club” or the fraternity as the case may be. I hope not. Of course, these are just guesses and it wouldn’t be right for me to formulate strong opinions based these suppositions, in much the same manner that MichaelBailey imagined motives for Van Lente during his review and then criticized the comic based on its failure to achieve the objectives that he imagined.

    Consider this a review of a review. It will be easiest if I comment on MichaelBailey’s review piece by piece, since my criticisms are numerous. For the record, I hated OMD and do not like the retcon. I have enjoyed recent issues of Amazing Spider-Man lately, however, including this one.

    MichaelBailey wrote: “As an epilogue it pretty much fails because it doesn’t tie up any loose ends from the preceding four issues.”

    What lead you to believe that this issue was intended to be an epilogue? It is, on the contrary, a new story in and of itself. It gives us further insight into the relationship between MJ and Peter. It shows us a very powerful moment that contributed to their break-up, which I will discuss further below. Amazing Spider-Man is an ongoing serial and this particular issue should not have been expected to tie up all conceivable loose ends of the last arc and wrap up the Spidey universe with a pretty bow on top.

    MichaelBailey wrote: “It gives us a little back story on MJ…”

    This is quite an understatement. I would argue that this issue gave us a lot of insight into MJ, particularly her relationship with Bobby, hints to her feelings about her (past) relationship with Peter, and even a look at a pivotal moment between she and Peter that contributed to their breakup. In my opinion this is more than “a little back story” and I found myself riveted by the revelations in this issue.

    MichaelBailey wrote: “…goes on to do a terrible bit of foreshadowing to the upcoming Black Cat story…”

    You consider this to be foreshadowing? Perhaps, but it also important to set the stage for what is to come, enlightening us on Peter’s thoughts regarding Felicia and their past relationship in the BND continuity, and providing us with context to frame future issues. You know, character development and exposition?

    MichaelBailey wrote: “…and then sets the clock back to where things were at the beginning of this supposed arc so that the next story can be unencumbered by any annoying bits of plot progression that crept up in the last month.”

    Try as I might, I cannot see how this issue “set the clock back”. Perhaps you felt that because some of the events transpired in the recent past that the plot was not being developed. These flashbacks provided a lot of insight, as I have mentioned above and will discuss later on. We learned quite a bit more about the relationship between Peter and MJ, and how and why they both feel the way they do right now.

    MichaelBailey wrote: “The point of this story seemed to be to make Mary Jane look really cool and try to convince those that may still cling to the supposedly ill-conceived notion that these two didn’t work together as a couple, at least that was my take.”

    Here we come to a technical complaint of mine…this sentence is completely unintelligible. Who exactly is trying to convince whom of what?

    MichaelBailey wrote: “…the overall feeling I got was that Van Lente or maybe editorial through Van Lente wanted Mary Jane to come off as the victim in her relationship with Peter. Oh what a terrible set of circumstances to be caught up in. She had no one to confide in. She was always stuck home alone. Blah, blah, blah.”

    This struck me as insensitive to MJ as a character and also as a woman, and sounds very much like the author of this review has failed to empathize in any way with what MJ might have felt in her relationship with Peter. Perhaps MichaelBailey would prefer MJ to stoically accept whatever hardships come her way as a result of Peter’s secret identity as Spider-Man. Voicing her displeasure for the situation is clearly not acceptable. Wanting a better life with a husband that is there for her is also ridiculous. This part of the review was actually somewhat offensive to me. I had a very different reading of this scene, which I describe in more detail further below.

    MichaelBailey wrote: “I see where Van Lente was coming from with this. Eventually it became too much for Mary Jane and she had to leave because it was messing with her own sense of identity. The thing is she didn’t leave a marriage she left a relationship. Getting divorced is harder but in the Brand New Day world there was no marriage, just two people living in a committed relationship for a number of years. Divorce is hard. Leaving a boyfriend is easy, relatively.”

    Wow. I do not know if MichaelBailey has gone through a difficult divorce. I hope not as I would not wish that on anyone. But here, MichaelBailey summarily dismisses any pain and heartache that MJ might have felt in breaking off her relationship and engagement with Peter, simply because this would be “relatively easy” compared to a divorce. I imagine many readers of this review have had at least one break-up in their lifetime that was not pleasant, that hurt, that made them feel a great deal of sadness, remorse, pain, longing, anger, resentment, betrayal, regret, depression, or some combination of these feelings. Fewer people have probably had to break off an engagement to the person that they love, which I imagine could be even worse. Pshaw, my friends. All of this is “relatively easy” compared to a divorce, according to MichaelBailey. Spare your compassion for MJ, she does not deserve it in this trivial instance.
    MichaelBailey wrote: “More than anything this story seemed to want to make Peter look bad and Mary Jane look good. It put forth the theory that Mary Jane is getting on with her life and we should be proud of her…”

    This issue did not put forth a “theory” of any kind. It told us a story.

    “Yes she took a lesson learned from that awful relationship to help people but at the end of the day we’re all better off and more importantly Mary Jane is better off without Peter as her man.”

    MichaelBailey’s reading of this story is apparently that MJ learned to help people from her relationship with Peter… Huh? While Peter’s words were pertinent to MJ’s situation with the Bunny Brigade, I do not think MJ was reflecting on this sage advice to help her decide what to do. A different literary device was at work here, simply overlaying Peter’s past words on a different scene and experience MJ was having. MJ would then relive another feeling from her relationship with Peter shortly hereafter, prompting her break-up with Bobby. This is part of showing us that MJ still finds herself in a situation not entirely unlike the one that she is running from.

    Does anyone actually think that MJ was indecisive here, and that were it not for Peter’s words, she might have done something else, such as sneak out the back door and run? I think MichaelBailey missed the point here.

    “Models Stink” just flat out made me angry……it was the last page where Michelle punches Peter in the face.
    When did it become acceptable for a woman to hit a man in anger? I’m not talking about a woman defending herself when attacked. I’m talking about a scene like this where Michelle gets dumped and slugs Peter because she’s mad. Why is this ok and played for laughs? It seems to me that when a man hits a woman in anger it is treated like a crime second only to rape in terms of making a male character a bad guy. Unless it is a soap opera when a man hits a woman in a movie or in a comic or on television he is the worst example of his sex ever and needs to have his ass kicked and frankly I agree with that because unless you are defending yourself there is no reason to hit another person just because you have anger control issues. That goes both ways and I am wondering why a woman hitting a man isn’t treated with the same vitriol.”
    I could not believe what I was reading when I came to this part of MichaelBailey’s review. He wonders how anyone could possibly see humor in this scene with a woman punching a man. Let me provide a little bit of perspective concerning the scene that MichaelBailey is upset about.

    Peter and Michelle had a drunken one-night stand after Aunt May’s marriage. It seems that they are both embarrassed by it, perhaps regretting it, and things quickly return to the hostile status quo. Then the Chameleon, impersonating Peter, makes a move on Michelle (who believes she is actually with Peter), she is receptive to it and they (at the very least) make-out on the kitchen floor. Afterward, Michelle sincerely sees a relationship budding with Peter, including a trip to meet her parents. Then, Peter (the real Peter) denies his participation on the kitchen floor and tells a totally unbelievable story that, in fact, it was the super villain Chameleon who was pretending to be Peter that was “swapping spit” with Michelle on the kitchen floor. We then see what seems to be a lengthy moment of silence (two panels with identical art are repeated in tandem, the second with no dialogue whatsoever). My impression from this and the look on Michelle’s face was that she did not believe Peter’s story at all, that she was insulted by what she believed to be an outright lie, and that she was staring at him wordlessly for some time, giving him an opportunity to take back what he said, apologize, take some responsibility for his actions, or something of that nature. Instead, Peter silently stares back at her, practically goading her to do something about the outrageous story he has just told. Michelle is feisty, completely insulted and humiliated, feels used and abused, and is being goaded by someone she thinks took advantage of her. She is up to the moment, and the 125-pound Michelle punches Peter Parker (AKA Spider-Man) in the face (with what looked like a left hook to me).

    This is the same Spider-Man that has, in the past, single-handedly defeated virtually the entire pantheon of superheroes in the Marvel universe. He beat all of the X-men at the same time in Secret War (I read that one). He also beat up Wolverine one-on-one, but really that wasn’t that big of a deal after he beat all of the X-men at the same time. I am pretty sure he’s beaten The Hulk on occasion. I’m not sure how many times he has beaten up The Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus and Venom. But folks, that is beside the point. Michelle Gonzales just punched him in the face. I mean, she really hauled off and gave him a good one. If MichaelBailey were Peter Parker he would be pressing charges right now. I’m not sure about the rest of you, but I certainly found humor in this scene.

    I give MichaelBailey’s review of Amazing Spider-Man #605 zero out of five.

    So what was there to like about Amazing Spider-Man #605 and why do I disagree with giving it zero out of five? I’ve already spent far too much time writing this (oh boy, have I ever…) but I would like to point out three things that I thought were really great in this issue.

    1) MJ’s reaction to the invitation to Aunt May’s wedding.

    “Not Peter. Whew.”

    MJ holds the RSVP card in her hand, unsure of whether or not she should attend Aunt May’s wedding, and I could really feel all the turmoil she was going through…all of the heartache. She tried to put things behind her and move on, but here was a reminder to bring all of those feelings back to the surface. We know by now that she decided to attend the wedding, but this was a really great moment.

    2) The flashbacks to the argument Peter and MJ had when they were still together.

    “ “With great power comes great responsibility” my ***! You have responsibilities to us! To this relationship!”

    This was some really outstanding writing, not the “blah blah blah” that MichaleBailey made it out to be. MJ knows Peter better than anyone else does and she cuts him deeply here. Super Ouch! Unfortunately, this is what painful fights in serious relationships can be like, and they are not to be trivialized because they are “not a divorce”. The art in this panel was great, and you could feel Peter’s pain in his expression even with his mask on. And a bit later MJ has another bullet in the chamber:

    “Cue Uncle Ben! The patron saint of Forest Hills! Cue the guilt! “If only I’d done something! If only I hadn’t just stood there when the burglar ran past!” You can’t let one moment define your whole life, Peter!”

    Wow, this is amazing stuff. My hat is off to Fred Van Lente. It is not often that I am affected by a moment in a comic book like I was here. This was really outstanding. It was heart wrenching and a really painful moment in the lives of Peter and MJ. Peter’s response? “…Maybe you’re right…” I won’t quote the whole thing here, please do yourself a favour, buy yourself the comic and read it for yourself. Peter goes on to defend himself. He’s not just rolling over in this argument, and he will not turn his back on the responsibility he feels he has to do good as Spider-Man. But just imagine how Peter must have felt, hearing these words come out of MJ’s mouth. What a great scene.

    3) Further excellent depiction of MJ throughout the comic.

    Fred Van Lente expertly portrays MJ during her break-up with Bobby (and throughout this entire issue). Bobby looks down on MJ’s career and her future prospects. She is sensitive about this so it hurts. Then Bobby says it is hard when one partner in a relationship (referring to himself) is so much more successful than the other. MJ has been trying to put her troubled relationship with Peter behind her, and here she realizes that she has fallen into a situation not entirely unlike the one she was fleeing. We get a really excellent half-page panel of art showing us a close-up of MJ’s pained face at this very moment. This is wonderful storytelling and another really powerful moment for anyone that knows the character of Mary Jane Watson and can empathize with her situation. MJ is too tough to give up though. She picks herself back up, dumps Bobby and swallows her pride, accepting a job on a cheesy reality show because she has no better offers. What a lesson in humility at a difficult time in her life, yet she is bravely soldiering on.

    Alright, that is my review of a review. I hope I haven’t offended anyone, in particular MichaelBailey, but I have no idea how anyone could honestly ever rate Amazing Spider-Man #605 a zero out of five. Perhaps the ends of that scale got confused. We all have our own opinions and I respect that, but I cannot fathom a zero for a comic that does such an amazing job portraying the characters of MJ and Peter. I really and truly felt for both of them during this issue.

28. It’s okay for women to hit men because in women’s bid for equal rights, (pardon the cliche) they want equal power but not equal responsibility. Now, don’t get me wrong, I am totally for equality of the sexes, but in many ways, men and women are not equal. Women can always play the fairer sex card to exempt them from responsibilities or limitations that come with the equality.

29. That name took me by surprise…I forgot to make my comment!

    G-man” at comicvine recommended this “fun” story in his review.
    He really didn’t go into depth about why he liked it at all. He just got payed for literally sitting there and saying this story is fun. Than he made a point of saying “you guys that are saying BND sucks because the marriage is gone need to stop” (well I’m paraphrasing)

    This is why I trust Mike Bailey. =)
    Not only because I agree, but I thought he was very fair and he went into great depth about why it got the score it received.

30. Um….Isn’t spanish fly an aphrodisiac??

31. Truer words could not have been spoken Mr. Bailey. Marvel have given up. This is rock-bottom for every character associated with Spidey AND BND. Mary Jane is Peter’s best friend, why would she act like this? She wouldnt, reallisticly, she wouldnt.

32. A few things….

    HOLY F***!!! Michael freakin’ BAILEY gave a ZERO to a Spidey book?!?!? I take back that whole “being in Marvel’s pocket” comment!!!
    Marvel, if you upset HIM… you are DEFINITELY doing something wrong!

    Peter dumps Michelle, and gets cold-cocked for it. While I agree that it was kinda stupid to play it for laughs, let’s be honest… she got off lucky. While he obviously did it for the right reason, that still would have been grounds for me to at least threaten her life (she’d have to draw blood before I even consider swinging a fist.)… and he could have taken her head off.

    And then he hits up a dating service in the next story? Good reason notwithstanding, why bother dumping Michelle?

    And the Mary Jane parts… oy vey… the Mary Jane parts…

    Let me get this straight… they are now writing stories in a blatant attempt to justify the destruction of the marriage… because that’s what it was… and they expect us to just sit here and accept it. Is that basically what this is?

    “More than anything this story seemed to want to make Peter look bad and Mary Jane look good. It put forth the theory that Mary Jane is getting on with her life and we should be proud of her because even though she looks back on her relationship with Peter with a mix of nostalgia and anger she’s a much better person now that she is out of that awful Peter Parker’s shadow. Yes she took a lesson learned from that awful relationship to help people but at the end of the day we’re all better off and more importantly Mary Jane is better off without Peter as her man.”

    I think I’m gonna start drinking alcohol. THIS is what we’re going to be subjected to until the current staff is annexed or low sales force them to change things. What we did is ultimately the right choice, and the stories we MAKE UP AS WE GO ALONG will only prove this.

    Mike, bourbon, or scotch?

33. Mr. Bailey, everytime I read your reviews, you add a layer of perception that makes me think that I am being a bit hard on BND and I need to be more like BD. (Hell, it’s only a comic book…) However, this story clearly is showing that BND is about revisionist history in the worst way and Fred has more to offer than this. Good job as always and I can’t believe we are so closely aligned on this story, it has to be a first.

    0 stars??? Got me beat by one…
    http://spidermancrawlspace.com/wwwboard/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5570&start=0#p81048

34. While I’m too old to muster the sheer amount of righteous anger that Mr. Bailey did, he called it – this is a really awful issue. If this is what Marvel had in mind when they so desperately wanted to give us “single” Peter Parker, and we can expect more stories like this – it’s too terrible to contemplate. And I can’t wait until Bubba Moose gets ahold of this one and its perception of women…

35. @BD: I’m glad I’m not the only one to think that. I believe I may have even suggested that as a theory a couple of weeks ago in a Skype session with tschamp and company.

36. Here’s the link to all the old reviews if anyone wants to check them out.
    http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/Amazing/amazing16.html

37. I actually liked this issue…sorry?

38. I gave ASM #545 a zero, and Kevin gave a couple zeros back when he was reviewing everything, so this isn’t the first in the site’s history. Those reviews were before the switch the wordpress, so they’re a little hard to find, FYI.

39. I haven’t read the issue, so I can’t agree or disagree. However, it seems like it’s a bunch of short stories in the main book. Does it come across as a bunch of stories that were intended for the Amazing Spider-Man extra issue?
    A zero rating huh? Wowza.

40. Another good review Michael. We all missed your opinions on the podcast this month. I also found this issue plodding to get through.

41. Heh, I also agree about the cover, it doesn’t want to make me read the interior at all. And that’s not because it makes me feel effeminate. Isn’t Cupid supposed to make people love things? Maybe he’s just not aiming at the reader… That feels cliche. And why Lilly and Random-Bunny-Eared-woman (unless it’s a “plot device” O.o) on the cover? They could have chosen better people…

42. Hahaha, epic review sir. I guess the kicker with this is that nobody can pin this review as “negative for the sake of being negative towards BND”, since it makes PERFECT sense! (not that the others don’t, =P)

43. George, Scorched Earth Bailey is in the house.

44. Don’t hold back, Bailey. Tell us how you *really* feel. Heh.

45. @Patrick Brusnahan–Really? Hmm, I’ll guess I’ll have to double check that. 🙂

46. Your first zero! Awesome review, man.

    Ans stillanerd, I may have given a zero at one point…8)

47. You know, midway through this review I had to go back and make sure that it was written by Michael Bailey and not George Berryman! Your comments about the relationship/ marriage are the same issues that a lot of us have been struggling with for almost 2 years now. No matter how much they try, even good solid stories can’t make up for the complete disrespect this couple has been shown since #544, let alone a bad story. If you feel this way with your limited experience of the marriage, imagine how those of us who followed it since 1987 feel! I do want to say, though, that I think there have been much worse issues than this one in the BND era. I still believe in Fred!

48. Wow! A zero? I think you might be the first reviewer on this website that has given a comic this, IIRC.

    To be fair about the “Just the Girl” story, I think what Van Lente was going for was that aside from MJ realizing she was letting her break-up with Peter define her life to the point that she was becoming someone she didn’t want to be, she was also reminded that Peter was a far better man than she had given him credit for, and certainly moreso than the self-absorbed, cowardly, douchebag that was Bobby Carr. And there’s indications in other issues that she not only doesn’t hold any ill will towards Peter anymore but that she still has feelings for him. Even so, those flashback scenes made both Peter and MJ come off pretty bad and the whole idea that MJ thought Peter placed more value on being Spider-Man than he did their relationship was handled much better by JMS, especially in ASM #50, vol. 2.

    Oh, and I’m glad you saw “the light” with regards to Michelle Gonzales (or as I like to call her Vin Gonzales with Boobs) because she is a collection of cliches and stereotypes, far more of a caraciture than she is a character. What amazing is Steve Wacker claimed, in one of his Weekly Webbings, that she was an “intelligent match for Peter” but based on what we’ve seen so far, it’s almost impossible to see why.

49. Hot Damn! Such vitriol..ah, I didn’t read the issue so I don’t have an opinion myself. But hate and anger always seemingly a great review make. Good one Bailey.

50. Mike Bailey gave out a zero? This issue did suck! Great job as always Michael. Even better, we share the same opinion on an issue for once. Hurray!