Quick heads up before I really get into this review; here be spoilers. Under the cut I discuss the big reveals that were…revealed in this issue. Just thought you might want to know.
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #585
Writer: Mark Guggenheim
Penciler: John Romita Jr.
Inker: Klaus Janson
Story Title: “Character Assassination Part 2”
Plot
Lily Holister gives Harry an answer. Carlie confronts Vin on her discovery and gets more than she bargained for. Despite his wounds Peter rushes off to confront Menace once more only to find himself in a rather tight spot because of it. Menace’s identity is revealed.
The Commentary
You know the more I look at the cover to this issue the more that I really, really like it. Of all the covers that have come out since the start of Brand New Day this is the one that has grabbed me the most. I don’t really know why. It is such a visceral reaction. This cover has a lot of power and went a long way toward me liking this issue.
Some questions got answered in this issue with not one but two big reveals. The other big subplot that popped up off and on for the past year was the whole, “Who is Jackpot?” mystery and that was mishandled in every sense of the word. This led to a certain amount of trepidation that came with approaching the second chapter of Character Assassination. I won’t lie. Thankfully it turned out well. There was actually a lot to like in terms of both character and art. Guggenheim is writing what could be the best story to come out of Brand New Day since New Ways to Die. There was a lot of action in this issue but at the end of the day what made this a pleasurable reading experience is the fact that I was sucked into the characters and the twists and the turns the story is taking.
I’m going to tackle the Spider Tracer Killer reveal first. Last issue we were left with the feeling that the killer was Vin. Carlie found the bag of Spider Tracers in his room. I didn’t quite buy it because it seemed too obvious and with the history this creative group has with mysteries I didn’t know what to think. The more I thought about it the more I came to realize that it didn’t really click. The surprise here isn’t that Vin is the Spider Tracer Killer. It’s that there is more than one killer and that other police officers are involved. If there is anything about this issue that made me go, “Holy crap!” it was that single panel where Vin’s partner lets Carlie know what has been going on.
I like having that feeling when reading a comic. It’s nice that this sort of thing can still happen after all of these years of reading comics.
Then there was the second reveal; the true identity of Menace. Surprisingly I dug it. It was one of those things that should have been fairly obvious and in all honesty I think it’s rather clever. What better character to choose to be Menace than the girlfriend of Harry Osborn? The way the revelation was paced, especially with Lily having issues with Harry’s proposals at the beginning of this chapter, gave it the dramatic oomph it needed. I have no problems with Lily being Menace. It works for me.
The Final Analysis
Surprisingly I enjoyed this issue. Guggenheim started to give the answers to questions some of us have been asking for roughly a year now and so far I am digging it. Romita Jr’s art is still fantastic and I especially like the look on the face of Vin’s partner when he drops the bomb about the Spider Tracer Killer. I also like how despite his wounds Peter still goes into battle. This to me is what makes Spider-Man a hero and I especially liked the comment he made about feeling guilty if Menace hurt somebody while he stayed out of the fight because he was injured. If Amazing Spider-Man had more stories like this or at least stories with as much character as this the book wouldn’t be so hit and miss.
4 out of 5 webheads.
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This postisn’t actually displaying up for me, I tried to message you. Could you get back to me about this.
1st you’re grouping me in totally with the BND pro crowd not the case i admited that there were bad arcs but there have been a few good arcs as well. yes not EVERY single issue is a testament to intelligent readers but lets be honest here not every issue of spider-man before BND was an thrilling page turner that made you think. the las time i TRULY recall having a great intellectual spider-man read it was “who is the hobgoblin” storyline
ok lets say people read it and not byrne steal it as you so eloquently put it yes they may read it but if they go into the issue as close minded as you seem to have gone into of course they cant find anything to enjoy. Hey if you went in there open minded and still find fault i can understand that i’ve hated the zeb wells arcs, and dont pick those issues up i ignore them. but when Slott comes in and Guggenheim comes in i know that im most likely going to get a good read.
i can get you dont like it man and continue come here and thrash the book and express your opinion… but to thrash the readers… to dole out your pity and insult readers that is low, and seriously how can you say all of what you said and close your statement by telling me nightwing is a good book. and before you say marvel insults the readers with the content i say this to you FINAL CRISIS. which you’re probably picking up.
As for spidey passing point the of iconic stories who knows maybe you’re right but before frank miller touched Batman people thought that the dark knight would be coming to an end, so im going to keep my mind open and i’ll like what i like and you can hate what you hate but you asked the question why can’t we respect your opinion but i must ask you why cant you respect ours. you only invalidate yourself when you argue one point and then commit the same crime. your responses demeaning tone doesnt help your arguement much either.
before i close out man i never intended to disrespect your opinion i just wanted to say if i’ve been reading for 21 yrs and have read evry issue of asm and im not a “purist” and i cant find complete fault in BND i need to know why they/you hate it. Also how can i get “purists” status? lol
PEACE
I didnt need to put the story together, it was obvious for months that it was who it was.
I actually wouldnt have been angered if Menace were a hired gun, you’re just assuming that because you foolishly beleive like the other pro-BND drones, that anything the anti-BND faction say will always be automatically, 100% against the direction of the title. I don’t share that sentiment. That’s just silly. You should always find positives in a negative…but if it’s apparent the characters and storylines arent improving, you shouldnt really bother.
Isnt it appropriate that whenever you pull out that “there not even reading the book” shitic, somebody who DOES browse through it will always be around to say “Well I still read it and it STILL sucks in my opinion, what are you going to do about it?”..they usually say “well…erm…you…you byrne-steal, you don’t read it properly”, then, when confronted with “I read it slowly and digisted it twenty times or so”, they STILL cling to “erm…you never bought it, you didnt read it year after year, erm,…er…this doesnt make me look desperate at all does it?”
I SALUTE anyone who doesnt read this bunk and people that still do but know better than to think any of it has merits that compliment thier intelligence.
JMS didnt hit all the right buttons for me either. I still picked up several of his comics, but stopped because of the mandates and “Sins Past”. JMS likewise didnt write Spider-Man very well…he wrote a great Peter and MJ, but his Spidey was too angsty for me…too “piss-poor”, but this WAS around the time Quesada was mandating him and MJ as a couple barely able to accomedate themselves…something not even Stan’s ghostwriter on the daily ever did
The “purists” will be happy when Marvel grow up and admit you can’t go home again.
The “purists” will be happy when we read INTELLIGENT Spider-Man storylines that compliment the characters and their growth
The “purists” will be happy when the pro-BND faction finally admit that there IS such a thing as “diverse opinions”, and realize their own isnt the end-all/be-all.
I won’t “admit” anything I don’t beleive to be true, this is what frustrates your camp the most, hence why they say “why can’t they admit…”, because we think it’s crap and you don’t, and won’t change our minds. It’s very much the same as fans of The Clone Saga wishing people would actually give it a second chance…I respect people who do and STILL can’t like it, so why can’t you respect ME or anyone else who doesnt like the crap you read? I’ve given it a chance, a reread, the works, I DON’T LIKE BND. WHAT IS SO HARD TO FRAGGING UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT?
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to read the final issue of Nightwing and “Whatever Happaned To The Caped Crusader”…now THAT is how you send a character off and weave a whole tapestry of story around an icon. A pity ASM has long since passed the point of telling iconic stories.
And it’s a pity people are content to ALLOW that
zarius you woulda been pissed if it was a hired gun.. cuz then you would have felt cheated that you put the story together and it was someone else. i am here to present a question. i am 25 and i have been reading spidey since i was 4 so for 21 yrs i have been reading spidey there have been ups and downs yet i have managed to stick with the book for the most part ( i droppped it for 6 months after ben reailly died) and while i admit BND isnt the best chapter in Spidey’s history it hasnt been completly dry the initial 2 arcs were good and then we got some sprinkles of good and new ways to die was a really good when read all at once and chracter assaination hasnt dissapointed. so here’s the actual question why is it that the so called “purists” cant admit that maybe a few arcs of this BND experiment are good. it is my understanding that most of them arent even reading the book anymore. There have been good arcs while as a whole it hasnt always been good maybe only a c on the grade factor but lets be honest there has been much worse spider-man material. chapter 1, and most of the clone saga were worse. ive been reeading for 21 yrs and i still find some good stories yes i admit this isnt as good as JMS’ run but most of the people complaining also complained about how JMS was ruining spider man with the spider totem. will the “PURISTS’ not be happy until romita senior and stan lee return to the book?
More pedantic, predictable crap from ASM. I’m not sure which is worse, people are starting to enjoy it, or…people are starting to enjoy it
I on the other hand, will not be rewarding this stupidity and sugercoating it. Menace should have been somebody else, like a hired gun for Lily rather than Lily directly. Menace should never have his/her identity revealed, the key to her being a different character from the other Goblins is that he/she is a living mask for other characters. Had they gone through with that, then it would’ve propelled Menace into a worthwhile catergory all his/her own.
But no, instead it’s Harry’s gal, someone who will set Harry off mentally and draw him into the Goblin world just issues removed from his very well written reconciliation with Liz and Marc. Great, redeeming characterisation flushed down the toilet again. MAKE MINE MC2.
I just got 586 today just got doen reading it… and this issue kinda pisses me off a tad… while the writing is still up to par with the last part but this issue is an INTERLUDE!!! we get answers to questions of menace… but it it a huge break from the main story! 2ndly you see this great JRJR menace cover then when you open the book its illustrated by KITSON and while its not bad art i was expecting ROMITA ART!!!!! i love the last page of the story though.
they could of at least made it that Mary Jane forgets him… for Petes sake… and then he can occasionally check up on her… leaving themselves open to a Love Repadition.
as far as bringing Harry back…. they could of just given him another friend..thats just lazy… ur gonna turn into DC with crap like that.
where do i go to complain that the “i want everything to change wish” has made it impossible for me to find another NEW spider-man comic to fit into my collection.
lol jesse it cool
Hey ironspiderman1983, I wasn’t calling anyone out, I’m just stated what I’ve heard from a lot of people.
I feel like my hair is thinning in front. Should I shave my head like Bruce Willis?
GREAT review Mr. Bailey. Thanks for keeping me appraised on Spidey as I remain stedfast in my resolve to not buy any of this OMD/BND mess.
1) I hate what they did with BND and the marriage.
2) I’ve accepted that is what happened and its over. They are not going to change it.
With that said.
I enjoyed the Menace story line and reveal. I think Mr. Bailey’s did a very good review.
Pardon the typos… my fingers are cold…
DOWN BOYS!!! Back to your corners…
Freddy… opinions are like ***holes… everybody has one, and some really stink.
I forget where I was going with that, but I always wanted to use that line…
… anyway, there’s an obvious soution. If you don’t like the reviews… don’t read them. Or do like I do… express your dislike… but be tasteful about it. Obviously Mike’s opinion isn’t gonna mirror your own. he’s his own man, and he may actually LIKE the direction the book is taking… god help me, I can’t understand WHY, but he does. reviews are supposed to reflect on the opinio of the reviewer… not everyone. Having a reviewer’s opinion practically match your own is basically an unexpected bonus… it doesn’t always happen.
wow 1st off we got some harsh words goin about. Fred seriously man a review is one person’s OPINION. its a reflection of what the reader thought of the material and mr bailey has enjoyed the last few issues and felt its his opinion not yours and while it may conflict with yours his views are just as valid as yours. you have tried to make it apoint that his opinion sucks where as yours is right maybe you should take time and reflect on the issue re 0read it maybe and see if you can find the points that MB made. if not then go and disagree but for to critique his review so harshly isnt the right way to get your point across. lets not turn the review page into an arugment page cuz its hard to sort thru the BS to find vaild comments when we all argue.
“Well here’s what I’ll do, Fred. I’ll have you tell me what you thought of the issue before I write the review and then just parrot what you say.”
That’s sounds like a great idea, at least it would be more objective and fair than the glowing reviews you seem to give it every time you review it.
Well here’s what I’ll do, Fred. I’ll have you tell me what you thought of the issue before I write the review and then just parrot what you say. I mean you know everything, right? Obviously if you think something is corny or predictable then it is.
I write the reviews based on how I feel about them. When I see something I don’t like I write about that. When I see something I like I’ll write about too. I don’t get paid for this. I do this because I enjoy doing it. I do not look at the world through rose tinted glasses and the reviews I write for the Superman Homepage reflect that. I like this story. I like the revelations. The only preconceived notion I have when reviewing ASM is the fact that I thought ONE MORE DAY was a terrible, no good, very bad idea. From there I take the stories on a case by case basis and use what I think is a good comic book story and what I want to read to judge the comic as a whole. I liked the Blank issue. I had issues with the Harry revelation. I liked the Mark Waid story. I like this story. Is this always going to be the case? No. So don’t sit there and snipe from your high horse about how if the book was full of blank pages I would give it a glowing review.
I guess the better question here is this; if you don’t like the book why do you continue buying it? I get the feeling that you’re not a fan of Brand New Day. Why beat your head against the wall over and over and over again?
“Apparently trying to find the good in something and not completely slamming it is a bad thing.”
Is that what you were doing with your reviews? You could have fooled me.
Apparently trying to find the good in something and not completely slamming it is a bad thing. I forgot I was on the Internet for a second. Maybe I should just waste my time hating everything.
And I have a feeling you people would have been upset if Jackpot turned out to be Mary Jane. “That’s so obvious.” Look, just because something is obvious doesn’t mean it is a bad choice. At least here they gave us clues and followed it to the conclusion. What is so wrong with that?
Great review, Mike…
… still don’t give a s*** about it, or BND, but great review nonetheless…
“What better character to choose to be Menace than the girlfriend of Harry Osborn?”
Sure you didn’t mean “What OBVIOUS character to choose to be Menace than the girlfriend of Harry Osborn?”
Jesse: i didnt say it was predictable i was just saying i called it and was pleased with it because the ramifications and possibilities. i also said i’d rather something be predictable and believable than something that makes no sense whatseoever. Freddy has had nothin but harsh words for the reviewer i think this was a decnt review and the material being reviewed has bveen good lately.
and required: i get your point but in my case its not so much of a lack of exposure to the mutiple killers theory so much as it is i was thinking in the complete opposite direction i was thinkin that this was a mr negative ploy or a osborn thing to implicate spider-man as a way to get Crowne to give him carte blanche on bringing in spider-man in the new ways to die arc. more shocked to find that Vin was part of this group than the and the that it was cops. for yrs in the spidey verse cops hated spidey but none took action against him. this to me was a neat twist. fred i think you’re being too harsh to the reviewer and the material.
I think too many people are complaining that lily being menace is “predicable”…..The last time the brain trust gave us a reveal that wasn’t predictable we got Jackpot…..I’d much rather have a reveal that makes sense and offers the best story telling potential then something completely off the wall.
“Whereas I am primarily a lurker around this site I don’t wish to be intrusive however in light of seeing the issue and the revelations within I was surprised to see this kind of reaction from this review.”
Have you read the last few reviews from this reviewer? Almost every review has been glowing. If you have nothing but blank pages in the next issue, this reviewer will still give it a great review.
Whereas I am primarily a lurker around this site I don’t wish to be intrusive however in light of seeing the issue and the revelations within I was surprised to see this kind of reaction from this review. I can’t help but think it would be different under the previous author.
As a couple others have said before me Lily Holister being Menace seemed to be a foregone conclusion at this point (and I mean that in the sense of the modern use, not the Shakespearean one). Furthermore, a murder mystery involving multiple killers is at the very least older than steam power and was a founding basis in a lot of Italian giallo films which in turned influenced American cinema and are essentially responsible for the so-called “slasher” genre, which is basically what passes for a murder mystery nowadays.
While I don’t mean for any of this to be a reflection on the quality of the comic or the review, being surprised at these revelations is probably better attributed to a lack of exposure to other media rather than effort on the story’s behalf.
Damned Straight I said let it be Normie!
But I wasn’t let down like I was for the JP Reveal. It seems that Marc bounced this off everyone else and they all had a hand in it. It seems that we’re being led here as the start on the Road to 600. YOu’ll hear more of my thoughts on this issue in March’s Podcast.
-SD
ok 1st freddy this is so much better than spidey has been in a yr the marks are only high by comparison. 2nd man ur going to tell me you knew the cops were tracer killers and 3rdly it makes PERFECT sense that lily be menace she may have gotten close to harry for the SOLE purpose of becoming a goblin or maybe she found one of the goblins old warehouses and in order to keep herself well supplied chose to date harry. this arc has yet to be corny in my opinion and it isnt all that predictable. who’d you want menace to be be fred would you rather it be harry, or carlie hell like spidey dude said let it be Normie. i’d rather have something be predictable than ridculous. AND NOTHING is as bad as the jackpot revelation the only way jackpot could have been good is to have made her mary jane and even that wreaks of predicability for you right?
“What better character to choose to be Menace than the girlfriend of Harry Osborn?”
Who are you kidding? Almost everybody predicted this revelation. Come on, this was as bad as the jackpot revelation and at least they tried to give a twist. I think the better mystery here is the fact that you keep on giving this book high marks regardless of how predictable and corny it has become.
1st off I TOTALLY called LILY being MENACE back in one of the new ways to die review (right when she kissed peter i knew) so im happy that i was right. 2nd this is a great issue man seriously MARC Guggenheim is a great writer but i feel that BND wasnt a good fit for him til now. it seems that maybe he found his stride but it m ight be more the fact that he’s got romita jr on art and ive always been of the idea that if you’re working with an artist of this caliber that you have to step your writing game up to try and match the art. 3rd finally getting resolution to the spider tracer killer and menace is great finally a writer other than Slott is wrapping up plot points because that was getting anoying. As for the spider tracer killer i have to admit i was shocked to find that its the police force who’s behind it the whole time i had figured that maybe this was a super villian set by maybe osborn or even harry. my only problems are we’ve seen glimpses of a darker side of harry and have yet to see it and 2nd the beat down menace put down on spidey. does lily have goblin juice inside? now that harry knows lily is menace wouldnt it be neat if her and harry ran around or rather flew around having a goblin romance. seriously i cant wiat to see how harry reacts to this.
finally i have to say that this was an excellent review keep up the good work.
i agree, i only wish all he stories from the last year could have been this good…..