Peter Parker and Norman come face to face for the first time in years! Norman and Harry meet for the first time in decades! A new symbiote appears! Is any of it as cool as it sounds? You know the drill: click, read, comment.
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #569
“The Osborn Supremacy” (Part 2 of “New Ways To Die”)
WRITER: Dan Slott
PENCILS: John Romita Jr.
INKS: Klaus Janson
COLORS: Dean White
PLOT:
For those naive enough to expect a non-copout follow up to last issue’s cliffhanger, here’s your punishment: Norman just wants Peter to tell him where Spider-Man is. Peter seems to know why he thinks no one remembers his identity, but the writers won’t clue us in. The Thunderbolts leave when Vin Gonzales comes home, and Vin thinks Peter trashed the place with a party.
Returning from the doctor, Eddie Brock tells May and Martin Li that his cancer disappeared and his white blood cell count and antibodies are phenomenal. He now stands among the many F.E.A.S.T. clients to experience miraculous healing. Li takes Brock to his office and tells him not to question the magic in life. The philanthropist shows Brock a Go board and tells him that, every now and then, he finds a piece moved by an invisible opponent. He’s learned not to ask too many questions and enjoy the game.
Norman visits Harry at the coffee bean and lets his son know how his disappointment over Harry leaving Oscorp to serve drinks. Even Harry’s billion-dollar franchise deal fails to impress Norman, who leaves to deploy the Thunderbolts after Spider-Man. Spidey finds Norman instead, and taunts Osborn about how he remembers everything, yet Norman now has no idea who Spidey is.
Norman calls the Thunderbolts back to base, but Venom refuses because he senses his old host at the F.E.A.S.T. center. Of course, that host is Eddie Brock, not Peter Parker. The symbiote tries to rebond with Brock, but Eddie rejects it. A white substance flows from Eddie’s skin, burns the symbiote, and coats Eddie until he becomes Anti-Venom, a reverse-colored antithesis to his former self.
THOUGHTS:
If New Ways To Die came out in March, and it may as well have since nothing’s developed since then, then I’d have called Brand New Day a roaring success. Slott tells an exciting story here, and he even hints that answers to One More Day’s nagging questions actually exist. Unfortunately, it isn’t March; it’s August, and simple reassurance that answers might come someday does not suffice. After twenty-four issues, two year’s worth on a monthly title, I need to know RIGHT NOW how Aunt May, Norman Osborn, and either Venom can possible remember any of the last few years without recalling the man around whom their lives have completely revolved. Dragging it out this long has turned what could have been a cool mystery into one of the most annoying and logic-defying plot holes in the history of Spider-Man.
On the other hand, Dan Slott convinces me here that Norman Osborn, now with a grander purpose than ruining Peter’s life, can be a top-notch villain without knowing who’s under the mask. Somehow, Slott keeps the animosity between Osborn and both of Peter’s alter egos feeling deeply personal. I can still enjoy the story, even if I can’t wrap my head around how Norman, for example, remembers throwing Gwen Stacy off a bridge but not why.
But that enjoyment would come a lot easier if Slott didn’t go out of his way to remind me how much sense this doesn’t make every two pages. The Martin Li Go board scene about allowing yourself to enjoy the things that don’t add up just screams, “it’s magic, we don’t have to explain it.” I know Slott’s being playful, and not “flipping fans the bird” as has been suggested of the metatextual statements peppering his work, but it still calls unneeded attention to the worst part of his story.
The second worst part is the Norman/Harry interaction. We haven’t seen these two characters together since the 1970s, so their reunion should be an event in and of itself. We should get a hint about how both thinking the other dead for so long affects their relationship, assuming Harry’s “death” ever occurred at all. What happens derives too much from the movie, and I’m aching for something new.
I don’t want to excessively focus on the negative, not for a great issue that just came too late. We’re still in the setup phase, but the way it’s set up I don’t see how the next four issues can be not awesome. With the Thunderbolts, Norman, Anti-Venom and Mr. Negative already in play, Slott could get a decent story just coasting on the naturally resulting fireworks.
Speaking of Anti-Venom, I don’t know what to make of him just yet, but he looks freaking sweet. Everything looks sweet. John Romita Jr’s style has evolved since he last drew Spidey. It’s looser, sketchier, but less blocky than five years ago and with a better inker and colorist. The book looks like real Spider-Man again, and worthy of the year’s most epic tale.
RATING:
4 webheads out of 5.
REVIEWED BY: CrazyChris
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hi
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good luck
You know, a no-holds barred message board discussion with this group would be hella-entertaining…
HA i concur
You know, a no-holds barred message board discussion with this group would be hella-entertaining…
HOT DAMN!!!!well 1st persian as for me begenning to sound like a fanboy i am a fanboy, i just find it hard to get on a message borad and contasntly complain so hard., secondly CrazyChris sorry that i defiled theis review page with blatant anger and verbal hostility. i assure that it wont happen again. 3rdly I just picked up 571 and im happy to report i no longer feel a misstep about venoms death becasue he isnt dead just severly boned. so i retract my misstep comment. woo New Ways to die just keeps gettin better and better Goblin Vs Goblin i love when those clashes happen and i love Anti- Venom’s powers he’s a cut above the original no ofense to Carnage’s creator but this Symbiote is evrything Carnage should have been (i do like carnage but i never feel like he brings much to the table would be awesome though if Anti-Venom, Venom And Carnage all went at it PLanet of the symbiots part 2 BWAHAHA) man Dan SLott Should be writing this book full time with Romita on the arc. i have a question to the posters here as long as we’re getting 3 books worth of stories a month wouldnt it just be easier if they went back to that one book a month fromat but 66 pages because thats basically what we’re gettin and i’d rathe pay the out right 9 bucks one a month instead of 3 bucks a week i know its probably not feasable from the work standpoint but i seriously would rather do that than have to keep shellin out 3 bucks a weekits just saves me a trip. any ways crhis i cant wait for the next 2 revies PEACE OUT
Yeah, the last post of mine was my first ever of any website blog. When I think about doing it, I watch the inevitable trashy slug-feasts occur and I get bored, but let’s not do it here, eh? Let’s show the crazy one and his righteous reviewin’ some respect and not do that here. What do ya say?
I’m also starting to like the Anti-Venom thing as well… At first I didn’t think it was that creative, but I guess there’s some some potentials here. As long as it’s short-lived though.
Enigma says
“See what happens when you ask for sexy comments, Chris?”
Well, I’m glad we can have a lively debate, but I think we can do it without calling each other “stupid” and “ignorant.” You guys gotta keep it civil or it makes us all look bad.
a spidey related note i just got my copy of amazing 570 and did ANTI VENOM JUST KILL VENOM?! that to me would be the only misstep of this current new ways to die arc. cuz venom is one of my favorite baddies in the rogues gallery and i would hate to see him dead but im loving the fact that Brock is Anti Venom
hey ironspiderman1983!
aee, you are already starting to sound like us!
the only diffrence between us is that my favoriate spidey villain is Green Goblin and yours is the Venom.
so when they screw up our villains we get angry and start to bitch!
there is this persian proverb that says:
“the answer to teh ignorant is silence”
i guess i’ll just do that.
you definetly cant argue with the stupid
ur right u cant argue with the stupid which means arguing with ur stupid ass would be pointless. so i would appreicate it if you kept any comments directed towards me to ur self. and like i said if ur not happy with spidey save ur $3 come back when u realize theres nothing else to read. till then yes do plz shut up when it comes to comments directed at me cuz let me remind you that it was you who started this with me by questioning my self respect.
Enigma i really have no passion in my opinion of the book my passion in my last comment was geared toward persian-spider over his questioning of my self respect. all caps in message boards signifies the raising of one’s voice so when ever i right all caps that would be yelling and. and as for not capitilizing at the beginning of a sentence ive explained this in a previous post but i’ll repeat it once again this is not a high school essay i dont feel the need to sit here and proof read and spell check and punctuate if my message is clear.
on a spidey related note i just got my copy of amazing 570 and did ANTI VENOM JUST KILL VENOM?! that to me would be the only misstep of this current new ways to die arc. cuz venom is one of my favorite baddies in the rogues gallery and i would hate to see him dead but im loving the fact that Brock is Anti Venom
You know, I bet sales will go up a bit and they’ll start to get some of the books mojo back then they will do some big crossover and ruin it.
there is this persian proverb that says:
“the answer to teh ignorant is silence”
i guess i’ll just do that.
you definetly cant argue with the stupid.
See what happens when you ask for sexy comments, Chris?
Take a look at your own response as an example… maybe it’s because they feel as passionately about their opinion as you obviously do. Simple fact. besides, you apparently don’t get tired of complaining about their complaining, do you?
And I was meaning to ask another question… why do you use ALL caps in sections of your comment, but never at the beginning of a sentence?
Just because he is the nicest man doesn’t mean he is the best the editor-in-chief of Marvel has had and certainly doesn’t mean that he knows what makes a great spider-man story.
Don’t you feel betrayed by Marvel? Don’t you have any self-respect? Us fanboys made Marvel what it is today. We were the ones who read spider-man religiously and
Emotionally invested in the characters. Now a an A-class nutcase comes around and tells us that almost everything that happened, almost everything that we cared about
and followed in the last 20 years is now wiped out? Of course it doesn’t surprise me a bit casue Joe Q was always a DC and that’s why he knows nothing about spider-man.
persiain WTf is wrong with ur brain. ur lucky i m just now seeing this. 1st u question my self respect. u can kiss the deepest part of my ass .and another thing if FANBOYS made marvel what it is today then then it is YOU who is to blame for this sorry state of spider-man it is you who directly influence the stories Seriously persian if you know EVRRY THING WHY ARENT U WORKING ON SPIDER-MAN I CAN TELL YOU WHY CUZ YOU DONT KNOW AS MUCH AS U BELIEVE THAT U KNOW. If u were on point then u’d have a marvel job instead u cry like a whiny bitch who got his toy took. Fanboys like you are whats wrong with comics you bitch about wanting change then when the change comes you bitch about that. Do yourself a favor save ur $3 dollars a week and shut up. And for you to question my self respect seriously man u must have some deep form of brain damage. and one more thing ITS 20 YEARS OF FICTIONAL HISTORY.You’ve emtionally invested yourself entirely too much if you’re insulting someone you dont know and proablaly will never meet over a comic book ITS A COMIC BOOK persian and guess what in less than 5 yrs the original continuity because whiny pussies like you will cry until marvel reverses it or we could just wait for YOU to start working at marvel and you can ruin spider-man in your own way right.
as for enigma’s comment your absolutely righ tthis is a free country and we do have the right to speak our minds but my point was and maybe i didnt make this cleaar is dont they EVER get tired of hearing themselves bitch. i dont understand how people can bitch like this I AM A FANBOY have been since i was 5 and i just dont understandhow anyone can contiue to bitch as adamantly as persian spider.
“Brand New Day has ruined that for me. Yes, we know the two have a history, but we no longer know what it is. Obviously, Norman has forgotten Peter’s identity along with the rest of the world, but did he ever know it? There are too many unanswered questions, and every one of them diminishes the impact of the story.
The problem is that the whole mystery of what changed because of One More Day, and what happened in the six months between issues #545 and #546, is not actually a mystery to the characters. Peter knows exactly what happened in the new history, it’s we readers who are puzzled. We’re not discovering the truth with Peter, we’re just waiting for the odd narrative crumb from the writers – such as Peter’s throwaway line “I have bad mojo with weddings” in this issue.
This is all immensely frustrating.”
spider-fan.org’s reviewer’s says:
“Part of the attraction of Norman Osborn, what makes him such a fantastic villain for Spider-Man, is the history that they share. The death of Gwen Stacey, the fact that Osborn knows Peter’s secret identity – those are the elements that make confrontations like Peter Parker: Spider-Man (Vol. 2) #47 so powerful. Because we know how much these two hate one another, and why they hate one another, any conflict becomes a significant character study.’
I don’t care if these current issues ARE good… I’m sitting this out until the next retcon…
@ironspiderman1983
free country… you have the right to run off at the mouth, so do they.
@Roger Stern
Sorry, but my patience ran out with “One More Day…”
Naw, the Harry’s running the Coffee Bean.
The place Pete and the gang used to hang out in the Lee/Romita era.
I actually got a copy of this one today. It was bizarre. Sure, it’s got some of the regular Spidey-vibe and characters, but at the same time, it seemed like an alternate-Peter and company. Eddie Brock is some poor sap who is at a homeless shelter. Peter is alone. And the people who say that Venom and Norman Osborne not knowing who Peter is doesn’t make any sense really have a point there. The Venom symboite would know and Norman knew when he took a glider in the chest, and then went to Europe.
The worst part is you can’t explain it away with out mentioning the ‘worst comic book story of all time’ as it’s been referred to. Rather accuratley I might add. Then Harry Osborn is running a coffee shop. Was it the one where Ben Reilly worked? This is just too weird.
I agree about Crazy Chris and his mad review skills! Congrats on getting so many comments this month!
BD
Hey I’ve been reading CrazyChris now for a while and I gotta say, he’s definitely spot-on with the reviews. I thought part one of this story arc was actually good, I read it twice which I haven’t done with ASM in a while. I love the Green Goblin. I love Norman runs the Thunderbolts, and came to NYC; but come on, this not knowing who Spidey is is a real let down. This needs to be explained better, or something. And that symbiote costume should also know who Spidey is since Peter was its first host that we know of. Overall pretty lame indeed, but that being said JRJR is my favorite Spidey artist! And Stern’s Spidey ruled too. Oh something about Anti-Venom too…zzz…zzzz
Nice, a real live Spider-Man writer gave my review a click! That makes my day!
ironspiderman1983 says
“stop on the person attacks on joey Q ive met him in person and is one of the nicest people in the world man”
Just because he is the nicest man doesn’t mean he is the best the editor-in-chief of Marvel has had and certainly doesn’t mean that he knows what makes a great spider-man story.
Don’t you feel betrayed by Marvel? Don’t you have any self-respect? Us fanboys made Marvel what it is today. We were the ones who read spider-man religiously and
Emotionally invested in the characters. Now a an A-class nutcase comes around and tells us that almost everything that happened, almost everything that we cared about
and followed in the last 20 years is now wiped out? Of course it doesn’t surprise me a bit casue Joe Q was always a DC and that’s why he knows nothing about spider-man.
Spider-man and GG’s battles have always been personal (just go and read the finale to the clone saga again to see what I mean). However, now that Norman doesn’t know
who spider-man is, their next battle in ASM # 571 is sure to disappoint unless Mr. Slott has as ace up his sleeve.
it is a shame that Marvel is reprinting alot of crappy spider-man comix every month but it has not yet reprinted your Amazing (pun intended) in hardcover format.
is this really you Mr. Stern?
WOW! just WOW!
persian-spider says:
“John Romita, Jr.’s artwork harkens back to an innocent, less cluttered period in Spider-Man’s history.
Does anyone remember those masterful Roger Stern Romita Jr. Collaborations?
Why can’t Marvel just give us more Spider-Man like those?”
Patience.
I think it’s funny how everything is tying together now. You have Martin Li, Mr. Negative involved in everything. He’s running the feast center where Aunt May works, is endorsing Hollister in the race, and has probably been a factor in Brock becoming Anti-Venom. This puts him in conflict with Crowne (by extension Menace and Norman) and Venom (and pretty much the whole Thunderbolts. Then you have Norman apparently facing Menace in a few issues. You of course still have Jackpot out there, who’s either MJ or Sarah Ehret, connecting her to the Paper Doll arc. and the Bookie placing bets on everything (if he hasn’t been retired). Freak also gets a connection to the Osborns since he’s at Oscorp. It’s kind of cool, if not a little overboard, since the only wholly independent arcs so far have been The Blizzard and Kraven arcs.
They’re now trying to bring a kind of mix of both old and new into the BND universe. It’s kind of been a mixed bag so far, but I think things will start improving with this arc. I’m just hoping after this storylin, we start getting answers on the various mysteries going about.
^… i love when the only rebuttal you people have is we need a spell check or proper punctuation. You dont have an actual way of of arguing my points so the only thing you can do is attack the spelling/ grammar this is not a High School paper or a college paper i dont feel like there was an actual need to spell everything correctly when my message is clear. Yet again you prove me right…ALL YOU PEOPLE DO IS COMPLAIN. now its about spelling on a message board. well to appease you t his time around i used proper speling and punctuation cant say i dont listen. Any how im off to pick up part 3 of this arc and i know tha i shall enjoy this issue as uch as i have enjoyed the previous 2.
^…We need a spell check.
I’m confused, so all these little hints Peter is dropping about having a reasonable explanation for all the new continuity holes haven’t been covered in one of the BND one-shots yet? At least now I don’t feel so bad for not picking them up.
ok WOW wow wow wow u people make me so eFFing mad. all you do is complain all you do is complain. if the story is good you complain that it all wrong if the story is bad then you complain, if the story is just okay you complain serously if you guys know what makes spider-man tick if you know everything that would make it a great book by your standards why arent you writing it. go apply for a writing job at marvel with a spidey story that is DAMN perfect in your opinion. you know what ive been a spidey fan since i was 4 and im 24 now and u know what i may not have agreed with evrything thats gone down in the spidey books but i never sat in and openly cried and moaned about it in a message board im really sick of the whining if ur so sick then leave marvel GO READ FINAL CRISIS or TRINITY and see what u get there. im not here completelty defending the BND arcs but im saying that you shouldjus shut up with all the whining man that is 2 yr old crap that never works. and stop on the person attacks on joey Q ive met him in person and is one of the nicest people in the world man he is not the devil and he’s not trying to ruin spidey none of those people are trying to ruin spidey they are trying to give us fresh stories yeah its been hit an miss but a leas t they are trying.
as for this story i thnk Dan slott has been the right man for the job for a while now if we were still in the one per month format pre BND he would have been the right man for the job. and right now he’s the man for the job his arcs to me have been the most enjoyable and they actually move the story along the most Slott has intrigued me with his characters and i am very pleased that Brock is anti venom after the goblin venom is my favorite villian and it just doesnt seem right if brock isnt the host. the scorpion venom thing was okay but i think gargans been venom too long i hope brock school’s him on what it really means to be venom. as for the color scheme it may seem stupid to just in vert the colors but i absolutely love it i loved the look since the images were shown back in like april. as for the art work man it feel so good to have a romita back on art its like seeing an old friend that youhavent seen in yrs.
Crazy Chris i enjoyed the review and lookin forward to the next.
My problem with the Unmasking is it that should of been done under completely different situations because it actually got news hype. I saw a story on CNN about it. Here, it seemed pretty obvious that it seem like a priority to JMS nor to the EIC. An article that I read with the two all they talked about is how Harry and Gwen should be alive and that it was bad for the series. That was right before the Unmasking, they said that Peter’s life would be bad and then he’ll be right back where he should be. I don’t know, I think the Unmasking could of been the ‘Death of Superman’ of Marvel comics in the right hands. Though, the Captain America death got more press, they actually killed him off.
Of all the train wrecks in Spider-Man’s history.. why does this round peg seem to be the ONLY one that Marvel is determined to make work, no matter how small that square hole is?
“persian-spider says:
September 1st, 2008 at 3:35 pm
John Romita, Jr.’s artwork harkens back to an innocent, less cluttered period in spider-man’s history.”
And guess what… I thought he sucked then, too.
The unmasking wasn’t JMS’ idea, nor was the un-marrying. The former came from a company-wide crossover and the later was purely a mandate from the EiC. JMS’ first few years on the book, before the events and mandates came rolling in, constituted one of the great Spider-Man runs in history.
Lowering expectations is right. They offered people an ‘unmasked’ Spider-man that really didn’t seem to be revealed to the world except for a few panels here and there and loaded the books with hype of ‘ this is the worst time of Spider-man’s life’ and making the main character really stupid in my opinion. Then they go to this and it’s like ‘what are you going to do? You did the biggest thing to ever happen to Spider-man since his inception and you didn’t care about making it the big story because all you cared about was getting him unmarried and dropping all the stuff you introduced in the last two years’
If this is the only stuff they really wanted to put out they should of put it out three years ago instead of wasting our time. I don’t care what the writer of Babylon 5 wanted, he just didn’t get Spider-man.
Aw, give me a little credit, Persian-spider. I gave this issue a good review because that’s what I think it deserves, not because my expectations are lower than they’ve been in the past. I read plenty of great comics outside of Spider-Man to remind me how good comics can be. My expectations are always high and fair, and this issue happened to meet them. Also, “standing ovation” is a little strong. I really enjoyed this issue, but I noted its flaws and discussed them in the review.
You know Marvel has lowered our expectations.
It gives us months of crappy stuff and now that we have merely a slightly above average story arc like “New Ways to die”, some people like CrazyChris
Stand up and give it a standing ovation!
John Romita, Jr.’s artwork harkens back to an innocent, less cluttered period in spider-man’s history.
does anyone remmeber those masterful Roger Stern Romita Jr. Collaborations?
why can Marvel just give us moer spider-man like those?
ha! thats funny but completely true. the red corn rows side ways! ha ha, thats rich!
I thought it was a decent story this time. It’s great to have Norman back. The one eternal question continues to haunt me though. Who has hair like those guys? I mean Red headed sideways corn rows?
I have a question… what explanation do they give for NORMAN AND THE THUNDERBOLTS being in Peter’s apartment if he doesn’t know who he is anymore? peter’s not bringing home money for Spider-Man photos anymore, is he?
Also,
Menace: Goblin kockoff
Freak: Lizard knockoff on drugs…
Kraven’s daughter
And now Anti Venom… who just happens to be Eddie Brock
What’s “brand new” about this?
Well, after reading Amazing Spider-Man for over thirty five years, it’s safe to say that I’ve seen a lot of changes in the Spiderverse. I’ve hung in there through the thick and thin of it, (Spider clones included) but for the first time in history, I find myself seriously considering giving up this title. If not for the promise of John Jr’s glorious art gracing its pages, I think I would have relinquished my grip on this title when everyone lost their momories. (And sanity!!!)
Marvel need a serious wake up call. This should be their flagship title, but just like its movie version, Spider-Man has become a joke, and it breaks my heart. Quesada, you should be ashamed of yourself.
I read the story and I didnt like it.
I thought last week’s ASM was much better because i thought it was trying to break most of the rules that “Brand New Day” had adhered to since January.
It played in the wider Marvel Universe. It had a more mature feel. It gave Peter Parker a semblance of direction and didn’t heavily rely on the admittedly weak new supporting cast.
It (gasp!) had a mild respect for continuity. But it seems that part two of the story in issue #569 has taken big, honking steps backwards, grabbing the storyline by the throat and chaining it to the constraints of “BND” that have been stifling the title.
However, as always, I found solace in John Romita, Jr.’s artwork.
hey a a 4 out of 5! Havent seen that in a while.
I am very tempted to read this…maybe someday….keep up the great job with the reviews, CrazyChris! At least, for as long as your wallet can stand it!