Crawl Space #2.5 Discussion Thread

[Kevin Cushing]

This is just a little 8 page special I decided to write up for Valentine's Day, taking place between #2 ("The Goblin King") and #3 ("Spider-Man Black Part 1"). I only decided to do it 2 hours ago, so there's no cover or anything. I hope you enjoyed it!

Oh, and if you don't believe what Peter said on Page 8 Panel 4, check this out.

And if you haven't read the special, it's only 8 pages so go ahead and give it a look here!

[cpahl2000]

What a cool valentine tale Kevin, really great and a pleasant surprise.


I just got home from a day with my valentine and I saw about the story and I just read it and what to say, great.


Shocker... thanks for put him, he is my favourite foe and the way you wrote him was totally what I wnated to read for a long time, specially Spidey let him get way, pretty cool from him, specially on a time date like this, fantastic.

The in-between issue plot with MJ and Carlie was good, to see how the double-date was born, cool and wise point.


Oh boy, how I miss the weeding and only you to make it alive and cool, the romance mood is and was essential for this short tale and thanks for doing that, for bringing back what is really missing in Spidey´s comics, the wedding.

[DiabeticSpidey]

I really enjoyed this story, Kevin. You really hit home with MJ's personality, as I remember it being like. I've enjoyed every issue of Spider-Man Crawlspace so far. So until Howard the Duck is revealed as another child of Gwen's.....Make mine the Crawlspace!!!! !!!!!

[BtmxComedy]

Spider-man: Crawl Space #2.5 (A BTMX Review)


PLOT: read it for free on the site

LIKES
-A light and fun story with the Shocker. Shocker is one of my favorite villains. Deep down inside Spidey knows that Shocker is a solid B-list.
- CARLIE!! This issue fills in the gaps that confused me about the character during this period in history. With issue 5 just released recently I sent my former Carlie hesitations the way of the wind long ago, however this issue breathes new life into those older issues and I no longer have to cringe. Thank you Kevin!
-This issue came out as a completely unannounced surprise. FREE BONUS!
-I know this issue was only 8 pages... but the shortness doesn't stick out to me after reading it. It feels like the issue was able to hold more ground than would be assumed by the page count.

DISLIKES
-Black Cat and Spider-man. (1) Is Black Cat still dating Puma? (not a complaint yet, I genuinely don't recall) Man I should seriously remember this because I personally reviewed these issues for the Crawlspace but what was Black Cat's status in Spider-man Black Cat: The Evil that Men Do? (2) (And this time this is something that bothered me) Spider-man was a little bit too...sensitive I guess? Not out of character in that the subtext is alright in their conversation but the way he phrases things is not how I would imagine Spider-man doing it. Calling Black Cat "honey" and kissing her on the forehead...I don't know how I feel about all that.


RATING:

In the Spider-man CS series we sit in anticipation of a major event, but in this untold tale its still all fun and games. I feel that generally the wait one makes from month to month can create hype that if not fulfilled leads to disappointment. As a complete surprise story, this issue suffers from none of that and in addition it gets all my gratitude for making my Valentine's day even sweeter. I'm in a lovey dovey mood but that doesn't magically stop making me a picky critic. I'll take off 0.5 for the Black Cat conversation and let the issue keep the rest.

4.5 webheads out of 5


Happy Valentine's Day

[insaneJonny]

Damn, a person could get used to reading this weekly kev.

Firstly one thing that stuck out was that there seemed to be A LOT more dialogue per page in this then most other issues to date, particularly the first few pages.

Anyway thoughts:

I know this is a valentines special so it has to be all cheesy, but I don't see spidey letting a villain get away to go on a date, its one thing if say someone close to shocker was dying and spidey let him say goodbye but a date? I'd have just arrested him and said 'you reap what you sow."

Also I'm not sure about spidey calling Black cat honey when he's a married man and not separated like he was in evil that men do.

Still, nice to see the MJ/Carlie relationship given more space to grow.

Overoll a decent offering but when I seen the words "valentines day special" i was hoping for some kind of Kevin Cushing sequel to "to have and to hold", so I'm disappointed in that regard.

[coolmvm]

I've always been a good fan of the Shocker and I love his apperance here Kevin.

I've also enjoyed the fact that Peter gave him a break since it was Valentine's day, I must say that was nice of Peter to do.

Also Nice Black Cat Cameo as it showed me that she has finally accepted the fact that Peter is married and that she should try to get on with her life.

Once again I encouarage you to keep up the good work upon this great series as I love what you are doing to some of the Spidey cast each time I read about them.

[Bevie]

Thanks for the great Valentine Kevin.

I'm not really much of a critic as I haven't anything negative to say. I really enjoyed this feel-good Spidey/MJ story. I even liked that he let Herman go the way he did. Also, comforting Black Cat. I always liked the Black Cat. Just not as a permanent love interest for him.

It was funny and cute and a little cheesey and I loved it.

I can see no reason why you would not be right at home at Marvel. Though right now you would be the best one there and I guess they couldn't have that! Though the brain trust could probably do quite well if it wasn't for Mr. Quesada and his stupid genies in bottles. If only they could break that one bottle and free themselves up from their constricting and boring status quo and bring back the real Pete and MJ.

How you could do that in such a little time is mind boggling to me. Thanks again for cheering me up.

Valkyrie of Delta Tau Chi

[SpideySteUK]

brilliant story and sub plot, everything was great, you've outdone yourself with this story. I've now decided you and Fraction can write the Best MJ and Peter stories and sub plots!!!

[CrazyChris]

This is actually one of the best installments so far. I hope you revisit the idea of BC wanting a baby, because her wanting to settle down like that seems like a huge character development. I like how you used this 8-pager (I imagine it as a back-up story to some other issue) both to fill in gaps and to introduce a few new story elements, like BC breaking up with Puma. My only complaint is that I don't like it when second-tier villains are built down like this and made to look like losers and "D-listers," especially the Shocker 'cause he gets that treatment a lot. I've always wanted to see the Shocker built up into a credible threat. I wish you had used someone who deserves to be built down, like Overdrive or Freak or lame-ass-villain-who-makes-people-blind-man (forgot his real name already).

[FSUSpiderFan]

Nice little story. I liked seeing the Cary Grant conversation come to mean something at the end. I was a little uncomfortable with Peter being a bit too nice to Felicia. My wife would not be happy if I was late to Valentine's because I was tucking in my ex in her sexy night gown night. I felt like he should comfort her but not so much on the touching and kissing. My first idea with him gettting the cologne was that he was trying to cover up the smell of Black Cat.

[CrazyChris]

I was like "OMG MJ smells cat sex on Peter ... oh, it's cologn."

[bdog]

I think this makes a good cover

Colors by yours truly lol

[Shadow116]

Nice job once again Kev, and even for a holiday special one shot this was equally as amazing as your other work.

My only complaint is with the others on the Black Cat thing...

But nice use of Shocker, poor Herm gets no respect lol.

[Kevin Cushing]

Man, pretty great response so far! Thanks everybody for all your kind words, it really means a lot especially for something little like this that I just whipped up. And now right into tackling some concerns, of which there were a surprising amount for just 8 pages...

(1) Is Black Cat still dating Puma? (not a complaint yet, I genuinely don't recall) Man I should seriously remember this because I personally reviewed these issues for the Crawlspace but what was Black Cat's status in Spider-man Black Cat: The Evil that Men Do?

Oh, I would not be the one to try to go about fitting The Evil That Men Do into a particular place in continuity. We're talking about a 6 part story that took 3 years to finish. But either way, Evil That Men Do #6 came out in March 2006, and Sensational Spider-Man #34 (The Black Cat focus issue that showed her still with Puma, and the last time I personally remember her appearing) was a year later in March 2007. So to the best of my knowledge and research, she was still with Puma last time we saw her.

(2) (And this time this is something that bothered me) Spider-man was a little bit too...sensitive I guess? Not out of character in that the subtext is alright in their conversation but the way he phrases things is not how I would imagine Spider-man doing it. Calling Black Cat "honey" and kissing her on the forehead...I don't know how I feel about all that.

Also I'm not sure about spidey calling Black cat honey when he's a married man and not separated like he was in evil that men do.

I was a little uncomfortable with Peter being a bit too nice to Felicia. My wife would not be happy if I was late to Valentine's because I was tucking in my ex in her sexy night gown night. I felt like he should comfort her but not so much on the touching and kissing.

My only complaint is with the others on the Black Cat thing...

Ok, I'm going to address these all at once. Because honestly, I felt like this was one of the truest scenes I've ever written. I don't know about you guys, but there are just a couple of women in my life that I'm so close to that I think of them in a very real way as my sisters. With somebody like an ex-girlfriend that you're still very close with (not a totally accurate description of Peter and Felicia, but let's face it, pretty damn close) it's easy to have that sort of relationship where you'd do pretty much anything for her and the relationship can still be a loving one, just not in a sexual way. For my money, when Peter runs into someone he cares about that much who is in tears after being dumped by her (now long term) boyfriend on Valentine's Day after having made such a huge leap as to tell him she wanted to have a baby (and Peter would recognize how gigantic a step that was for Felicia), I think holding her tight as she cries into his shirt and using the word "honey" as he's softly trying to comfort her is completely in character and in the moment. And he would most decidedly not just try to comfort her in a minute and then leave her in an alley when she's so devastated she's beating the crap out of dumpsters and bawling in his arms. Peter's a gallant type that's going to make sure she gets home safely (after all, she's in costume and there are supervillains out there who might take advantage of her when she's breaking down, though there's a 50/50 chance they might get killed trying to do so). I feel like, after all this time, they are comfortable enough with each other that he can kiss her on the forehead without either of them thinking it means anything more than that. Peter may not do that in front of MJ, but to be blunt - MJ wasn't there. It's a dirty little truth, but we all wear different faces when we're with different people. We act differently depending on who is watching. And he can still be a completely devoted, loving, and faithful husband and know MJ might not understand but if she isn't there to misconstrue then there's no harm in innocently kissing his friend on the forehead when she's hurting. Peter's also, as we all know so well, a guilt driven type of person. I don't try to beat you over the head with it in my scripts, but everyone knows it's always there playing into his thought process. And in his mind, even though going home to MJ is something that he needs to do for MJ, it's also something that he wants to do. And he's not going to leave Felicia a minute sooner than he thinks he should for something that he wants. He's going to make sure his friend is ok and ready to be alone before he does anything for himself. He's still thinking about MJ, which is why he was planning to go already when Felicia told him to, but no way is he going to go have a good time with his wife until his friend is taken care of. In the end, I think this scene just said a lot about the kind of friendship Peter and Felicia have, which is an adult friendship that's as close as it should be with two people who have been intimate with each other in the past and still think the world of each other. This is the way I'd like to see them written in the real comics, if they ever decide to use the Black Cat again. Heck, this is absolutely the reason I love comics so much - there's so much history to build on that you can have a relationship this mature and complex.

I know this is a valentines special so it has to be all cheesy, but I don't see spidey letting a villain get away to go on a date, its one thing if say someone close to shocker was dying and spidey let him say goodbye but a date? I'd have just arrested him and said 'you reap what you sow."

Well as Spidey said, he wasn't thinking of Shocker, he was thinking of the girl. Being Valentine's Day, he was in a romantic mood himself, needing to get home to his girl, and he didn't think the Shocker's girl deserved to be sitting at home on Valentine's Day wondering why her beau wasn't there. He did it for the girl and for the day, not for Shocker.

when seen the words "valentines day special" i was hoping for some kind of Kevin Cushing sequel to "to have and to hold", so I'm disappointed in that regard.

Oh hell man, I have high aspirations and lofty goals, but ever coming anywhere close to Fraction's Sensational Annual is not one of them. That's the best Spidey story I've read in many years, one of the top 10 (or even 5) of all time. I'd love to do something like that, but I'm just not that arrogant.

I've now decided you and Fraction can write the Best MJ and Peter stories and sub plots!!!

Dude! That's about the best compliment I think I could ever get, and one I'm completely unworthy of. But thank you very much for saying so! You made my day!

I hope you revisit the idea of BC wanting a baby, because her wanting to settle down like that seems like a huge character development.

It is most definitely a huge development for her, and I appreciate you giving me the chance to revisit it later instead of just saying I took too big a leap. She won't be showing up terribly soon, but Black Cat is part of my long term plan for the future of Crawl Space, and I thought this little special was the perfect time to get her in here and set all this up. I wanted this stuff behind her already when she first shows up in Crawl Space, so I thought this was a really good opportunity to show this scene instead of just mentioning that all this stuff happened. You'll definitely see her again, but don't be holding your breath for it, it's going to be a little while.

My only complaint is that I don't like it when second-tier villains are built down like this and made to look like losers and "D-listers," especially the Shocker 'cause he gets that treatment a lot. I've always wanted to see the Shocker built up into a credible threat. I wish you had used someone who deserves to be built down, like Overdrive or Freak or lame-ass-villain-who-makes-people-blind-man (forgot his real name already).

I don't like that kind of thing either, and that's not my intention with that scene. Shocker's last line is in there for a reason - you'll be seeing him again. And he will very much be proving which tier he belongs on.

[BtmxComedy]

Doh!!

I can't believe I forgot the Sensational Spider-man storyline with Black Cat that happened after Kevin Smith's story. My bad. You're right on the money Kevin.

As for the defense of the interaction between Black Cat and Spider-man I see where you are coming from there. The difference is that in my mind I didn't think they were THAT close. A major aspect of Black Cat especially back in the day is the lack of emotional intimacy between Peter and her. When they dated it was all about having fun with masks. Although they did get closer in recent issues.

I don't know. I wouldn't have written that relationship the same but its definitely not an unforgivable thing for me. Although in my view their friendship just escalated from a 5 to about a 9 within this issue I can accept the 9 level from now on...now that we are here and all.

With all that said I am so so fuzzy on Evil that Men Do and the Sensational arc. I want to re-read that again as I feel there were some changes in that relationship that I'm not grasping anymore.