Crawl Space #6 Discussion Thread

[Kevin Cushing]

Could it be? Is it really? Yes! It's Spider-Man: Crawl Space #6! Months of waiting are finally over and the story of the Black Spider is here for the reading! I hope I still have a few readers left for it! Please, please take a moment to let me know what you thought. I'll love you forever for it!

And if you haven't read the issue yet, check it out here now!

[CrazyChris]

Holy crap! There's something I didn't expect tonight!

[Spideydude]

Wow. Just... Wow. There were no words.

Three Cheers!

-SD

[Kevin Cushing]

Holy crap! There's something I didn't expect tonight!

Just the effect I was going for. Crawl Space sneak attack!

[Shadow116]

Yup Kev, you've definitely earned my money the rest of your life no matter what you write. That was fantastic, I barely have words to describe this story.
The highlights :
-Simon Parker/Black Spider is my favorite kind of villain in that he walks the line between good and evil, it's also quite fun to see how he interacts with everyone from Peter, Gabe, and even the Red Skull. Seriously, Simon looked and sounded an awful lot like Michael Rosenbaum in my head too at Michael's evil best.
-Peter's parents are so underused, you even wonder if they even did anything nowadays. I always loved their whole spy backstory and you brought back fully why I liked Pete's parents as spies.
and last but not least...
-This is really an epic tale, very Shakespearian. These two out in the world not knowing of the other's existence, and yet they found each other. And to "save" his brother, if that was really what Simon wanted, he had to kill family to get it.

Absolutely fantastic, a novel like read for me, and so you know every Simon line gave me chills. Chills only Norman Osborn can regularly give me, so hey looks like you came up with a new favorite Spidey foe for me to hate in this Normanless world, besides Harry .

Now onto my rating. 5 S.H.I.E.L.D. crests out of 5 enough for you?

[CrazyChris]

My real time reactions...

PAGE 1

Panel 1: Full page. Mary Jane lies on her bed looking bored. There are shopping bags beside the bed.
MJ:
Ok, had coffee with Carlie, saw a movie with Carlie, went shopping with Carlie, had hotdogs with Carlie, came home to find Peter still gone.
Yep, it’s official, I’m honeymooning with Carlie Cooper.
I’m sure Peter’ll be home soon.
Oo, maybe Hydroman and Sandman teamed up again. Mud is kinda sexy.
Of course, he’d have to tear his suit to get any on him.
Man, I don’t wanna sew Spider-suits on my honeymoon.
He’s probably just webbing up the Hypno Hustler for crashing senior singles night at the disco bar…

I like how you don't play this part off as angsty. Thanks for not resorting to the tired image of Mary Jane curled up in lingerie crying next to a window in a rainstorm while Peter's off doing something as Spider-Man. The "mud is sexy" line reads a little awkwardly, I have to admit.

PETER:
My parents died a long time ago, leaving me an orphan.

It's always extra hard when both those things happen at the same time.

RICHARD:
Mary, you’re beautiful and I’m a secret agent. Give me one good reason we wouldn’t be a couple so spectacular they’d tell stories about us.
MARY:
Because they’ll all be classified.

That line gets an 8 out of 10 for cleverness.

Panel 3: Largest panel on the page. A collage of Richard and Mary’s lives, beginning on the left with the two kissing in wedding clothes, flowing into Mary rescuing Richard (in scuba gear) from the sea, into the two holding newborn Peter, and finally Nick Fury handing them his card.

This reminds me of the Cap issue that tells Bucky's history as Winter Soldier.

RICHARD:
If we go in as man and wife, it shows stability and helps create back story.
Let’s face it, when he’s deciding whether or not to trust me, he’ll be thinking a spy couldn’t possibly have the balls to bring his wife along on an undercover mission.

That's a good justification for them to have done this mission together, at least under comic book logic. I can't remember--has this been used as the rationale before or did you come up with it?

Panel 3: Richard and Mary’s bedroom. We see the two from the neck up, kissing.

Neck up? Where's the fun in that?

Panel 4: The Red Skull is shooting Richard in the head. Mary is screaming with tears streaming down her face. There are two henchmen walking into the room.
MARY (burst):
No!!!

Panel 5: The two henchmen are grabbing the still-screaming Mary as the Red Skull kneels down rifling through Richards pockets.
RED SKULL:
Cut the thing out of her.
Bring me her body when you’re done.

Dude. This is some hard core shit.

SIMON CAP:
I got to know you this way, Peter. I witnessed every triumph and tragedy, and through your face got to experience your feelings about everything.
But it came to a point when things started taking a darker turn, and I didn’t understand why.

It's kind of like he's following comic books.

Panel 1: Largest panel on the page. Simon is being dragged in the front door of the same mental asylum we saw Gabriel Stacy in, screaming at the top of his lungs, out of his mind.
SIMON CAP:
“With so much of my life about the study of you and Spider-Man, and the entire point of my life at the time being investigating and finding you, too much of me went out the window when you changed the world.
I broke.”
SIMON (burst):
I KNOW WHO SPIDER-MAN IS!!! I KNOW WHO HE IS!!! TELL ME!!! TELL ME WHO HE IS!!!

I like this. I think the same thing should have happened to Norman Osborn.

MAN:
I’m truly sorry you captured my interest. But don’t worry, I’m fairly certain my last test subject’s death gave me all the data I need to keep you alive.

Mwa ha ha!

PAGE 22

Panel 1: Full page. Simon and the man are casually strolling down the hall outside Peter’s office in Oscorp, with Peter over the man’s shoulder. Simon is passing directly beside Menken, who he hands an envelope full of money.
SIMON:
Thank you for your services, Mr. Menken.
We’ll take it from here.

This cliffhanger isn't bad. It doesn't really live up to the "HOLY CRAP" final moments of the other issues, though.

Overall: By far the best issue so far, but I'm sure you knew that already. You obviously put a lot more effort than usual into this one, and it was worth every day of the wait. I really hope you decide to keep going with this indefinitely, even if it means not committing to a rigid schedule. Kevin, this was a really great story and it completely overcame the fan fiction stigmas working against the idea of a long lost brother. You packed those 22 pages!

I was little surprised to see you continuing to reference One More Day and using it as a pivotal plot point in the story you're telling. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Part of me wants your story to be completely free from that taint. On the other hand, it makes sense for motivating Black Spider, at least initially. Just don't take to long to get us to the point where we can completely forget OMD, please.

[Ronin09]

Your Richard and Mary Parker conversation, man THAT is how you write dialogue! Reminded me of Mr and Mrs Smith in a good way.

Very interesting how Simon's "power" works. I love how both he and Peter are comparably intelligent, yet they excel at different areas, Peter with science, and Simon with people. Specific similarities, and yet distinct differences to set each other apart. I thought that was really clever.

Also how Simon lived vicariously through Peter, felt a "connection" to Spider-Man, if he was truly sincere in what he was saying, it really added to the sympathy and more importantly the connection that I was able to develop for Simon. This is something that you do really well that the BND writers seem to struggle greatly with in their new characters. How he was bred for a specific purpose, to use Peter, his whole identity as the Black Spider, and yet there remained somewhat of an inner conflict i'd imagine he is going through being that through his studying Peter for all those years, compounded with his learning that they're brothers, he couldn't fulfill his mission to use him for "evil purposes", at least at that point because of how he felt. I think that his connection to Peter rubbed off some of Peter's good qualities and conscience on Simon making him contemplate his next move.

His remembering everything prior to the mindwipe also adds intrigue to his character. How he was treated, alliances he formed, the transition from sympathetic character, to more of an accurate portrayal of how he is now as the Black Spider, especially in his approach towards "helping" Peter by recreating the Back in Black scenario, it's all there, and it makes sense. Best part is it isn't drawn out forever like in some of the recent issues of AMS. The Black Spider's identity although one I totally didn't see coming, was a FUN mystery large in part because you could speculate somewhat, the reveal was interesting (and unpredictable) and it didn't take a year and a half to be answered. This is another thing I feel personally you've done better than the current crop of AMS writers.

Finally that twist at the end there, like I said, it really made me think of whether or not Simon was sincere or telling the truth of all those experiences he listed in reading and sharing Peter's emotions throughout the years. One mystery ends, and another begins. All done in a manner that makes me want to continue reading and doesn't feel lame or forced in anyway. It's a natural progression and flow that your stories have, a certain feel that just meshes properly. Really makes them easy to jump in and enjoy All in all really well done Kevin, and as always I'm looking forward to the next issue!

[Kevin Cushing]

Thank you so much for all the kind words, everybody! It's always great to get up the morning after posting an issue and see not only that some people have read it, but such lengthy reviews. Can't tell ya how good that makes me feel both that you enjoyed the issue and that took the time to come over and talk about it.

The "mud is sexy" line reads a little awkwardly, I have to admit.

You may still disagree, but I think it reads better with the bolded "is" it was supposed to have. Alas, when I'm going through an entire issue and editing in MB code, sometimes I miss a word. I've corrected it now, though!

That's a good justification for them to have done this mission together, at least under comic book logic. I can't remember--has this been used as the rationale before or did you come up with it?

I rationalized that one myself. Really, there's shockingly little on the whole thing that I could find. To try to make my research as complete as possible, I read Amazing Spider-Man Annual #5, Untold Tales of Spider-Man #-1, and several issues from the "return" of Peter's parents. And Annual #5 was the only one of those with any pertinent info. Untold Tales was from a different point in time and didn't touch on the Algeria mission, and obviously everything Peter's robot parants said was a bunch of bull. With this lack of detail put into their story, I really wanted to flesh them out even more (thus the title of the issue) but had to pull back a bit in favor of the later material, since this is Simon's story.

By far the best issue so far, but I'm sure you knew that already.

Well I thank you for the compliment, Chris, but I'm actually surprised to hear it. Part of the reason it took me so long to get this out is I've really never been satisfied with the presentation here. I retooled and whittled and re-examined enough times to get it to a point where I found it readable, but I was expecting to hear people tell me it was the weakest. Don't get me wrong, I still believe 100% in the character and his story, I just wish I had set this arc up so it could be presented differently. But with 3 issues already out, 22 pages worth of story to be told, and both Peter and the audience needing to know it before moving on to issue 5, there wasn't really anything I could do to change that at this point. All in all I think it turned out about as well as it could, but it's far from my favorite issue.

I was little surprised to see you continuing to reference One More Day and using it as a pivotal plot point in the story you're telling. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Part of me wants your story to be completely free from that taint. On the other hand, it makes sense for motivating Black Spider, at least initially. Just don't take to long to get us to the point where we can completely forget OMD, please.

I suppose I kind of have a similar split mind about it. But as a writer I'm very into drawing on character history, and this was a big part of the recent history. Plus, in this case, with the Black Spider being set up in the midst of the Brand New Day continuity and the need to reveal that he was one of the two Loki warned Peter about, it all very much needed to be addressed. I don't plan to sweep OMD/BND under the rug, but it won't be playing this big a role in any of the stories in the near future.

[Miles_Warren]

I'm one of those people who isn't that keen on the idea of Peter having a brother. In fact I hate the idea. It reminds me of the whole Vulcan scenario from the X-Men and I hate Vulcan.

You're back story for Simon was interesting and I liked how you managed to somehow fit something like that into continuity. Unlike the whole Sins Past debacle. Yup you're run is controversial alright but that's a good thing in my books. It has us talking and debating the pros and cons of some of your ideas, something any creator would relish.

I'm not sure where you're going with Simon at the moment. Is he a hero or villain? And who was that man at the end of the issue? Hmmm...

I can't wait for next issue to find out what happens. You're a great writer Kevin and WHEN you get published I'll be one of your first customers

[Kevin Cushing]

Well I knew not everybody would be into the idea of a Simon Parker, but I appreciate you keeping an open mind, Miles. Hopefully I can at least keep you entertained!

Wow. Just... Wow. There were no words.

Curious, was this a statement on the issue's content of the fact that it actually got posted?

[Spideydude]

Well I knew not everybody would be into the idea of a Simon Parker, but I appreciate you keeping an open mind, Miles. Hopefully I can at least keep you entertained!

Wow. Just... Wow. There were no words.

Curious, was this a statement on the issue's content of the fact that it actually got posted?

Well the issue blew my mind. THIS is how you use continuity. It's not even retroactive really, because so little was known about Mary and Rich that it fit seemlessly. Although the whole ripping out the mothers womb was a bit... gross, but that's the intention.

Simon is a badass. Pure and Simple. Was Vin the other guy who knows or is it someone else? (Ie Harry)

The Statement actually was a bit of both.

[Shadow116]

Kevin, you've made me like Simon as much as I like Norman Osborn, I say that stands as my greatest praise to Spider-Man CS.

[Kevin Cushing]

I meant to post this earlier, but I wanted to make a note on the wonderful Scott J. Larson cover to this issue. If you think it looks kinda sorta familiar, that's because it's another of Scott's patented homages. This time he chose to model the spy oriented cover after this poster (and yes, it was a crappy movie, but that doesn't mean the poster composition isn't cool):



I also want to thank Enigma_2099 and bdog for their awesome variant. I wanted to commemorate the big "Origin of the Black Spider" issue with a great variant cover, and I definitely made a good choice going to these two. I really like the look of the Black Spider in the full coat, here. It definitely lends itself to the spy world he comes from.

[Kevin Cushing]

Well the issue blew my mind. THIS is how you use continuity. It's not even retroactive really, because so little was known about Mary and Rich that it fit seemlessly. Although the whole ripping out the mothers womb was a bit... gross, but that's the intention.

Simon is a badass. Pure and Simple.

Thanks man, I'm glad you dug it! I'm just trying to give people something to chew on in between installments of CSA ya know

Was Vin the other guy who knows or is it someone else? (Ie Harry)

Harry is indeed the other of the two that remembers everything. I tried to make that clear in the last page of issue 1, but I guess technically I've only outright said it in recaps. That doesn't mean Vin doesn't remember everything, though. Being in hell, he's kind of off the board for being counted. After all, Mephisto certainly remembers everything, too.

Kevin, you've made me like Simon as much as I like Norman Osborn, I say that stands as my greatest praise to Spider-Man CS.

Trust me, man, I know big of a compliment that is coming from you! I don't know if I've earned praise that high yet, but I'll certainly try to live up to it!

[Shadow116]

No, trust me on this one.

Aside from my attachment to insane or just plain evil villains I also like villain that plays the line, sometimes doing evil or mischief and other times playing the guardian for his own personal gain. Simon I believe embodies those qualities, and I get a fun Vader vibe from Simon for some reason, though maybe that is just from the black and the coat lol.