The Golden Age of spiderman, where did it end for you?

Discuss your thoughts on the articles written by J.R. Fettinger from the www.spideykicksbutt.com website.

Moderators: PartyHardy, BD, MadGoblin

User avatar
stevenkof
Freelance Photographer
Freelance Photographer
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:58 pm

The Golden Age of spiderman, where did it end for you?

Post by stevenkof » Thu May 24, 2007 10:34 pm

Like the topic, where did the "golden" age of spiderman end for you? where do you feel the 616 series finally jumped the shark per say? For me, the end of that era was amazing spiderman #289. Up until this point imho, the spiderman series had been relativly consistent. For me, this represented the true start of the various retcons, long winded crossovers and the rest of the crap that has plagued the books for so long. While there was certainly some reconning done before this, and a few crossovers, for me the end of the hobgoblin saga (at the time) was the end of the golden spiderman. The hobby mystery, while it had run low on steam, was still a compelling read. The end of this signified the end of something for me. It seems like after this point, everything has spiraled out of control and is still on the road to recovery. Venom, carnage, clone sagas, byrne re-boots are what followed, and up to this point didnt exist. So what is everyones opinion? what was the end of the classic spiderman for you? Im especially interested to know at what point you feel that is J.R, any thoughts?

User avatar
CrazyChris
Captain Universe
Captain Universe
Posts: 6397
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:12 am
Location: Living hell
Contact:

Post by CrazyChris » Thu May 24, 2007 11:30 pm

For me it ended after #535 and restarted with #339.

User avatar
The Black Cat
Webslinger
Webslinger
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: cozying up to Spider at the Delta Tau Chi House as Cougar

Post by The Black Cat » Fri May 25, 2007 12:11 am

I'm going to speak for the hubby who is a "true believer" if you ever met one (that is, was around when all the first issues of FF, Thor, Spider-Man etc. came around). He said he started thinking "WTF?!!" when Spidey accidentally got the extra arms (ASM 100!)...he sticked around to be impacted by the death of Gwen Stacy, but for him the rot set right after the first Punisher came along (ASM 128 or so). He stopped actively buying or seeking out comics after that, he was soured. He still is interested in comics, and we go to the local comic cons, and actively seeks to plug the gaps in his Silver age collection, but for him it really is about the great story partnered with the great art. Otherwise, he 's not interested. Unfortuantely I think if you grew up with Kirby and Steranko, you are ruined for life with comics...the only guy he remotely likes and gets excited about is Alex Ross these days.

Since I didn't become a "connaiseur" until I met him (1998) I can say I agree with him...I mean with exception of the Black Cat, every major story arc with Spidey since the mid 80's hasn't been very spectacular! Bad writing, bad art, ever increasing ludicrous storylines....okay, so a little sci fi here and there (e.g Venom) is allowed but with retcons, reboots, people coming back from the dead, clones of clones of clones...come on...there no respect for the canon of the characters,just looking out for the shock value.

And with the recent article in Fortune Magazine, I don't get the fuzzy feeling they are out to take care of the Spidey Canon...he's the cash cow, and the poor sod is going to get milked because the $$ coming in from comics ain't gonna cut it...hasn't been cutting it for some time...its all about licensing and their control (now) over the contents in all the movies going forward.
Image
"Spider Darling, don't you know what Tikis really stand for in Tahiti?"
Image

User avatar
Venom65437
Avenger
Avenger
Posts: 2085
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: Fort Myers, Florida
Contact:

Post by Venom65437 » Fri May 25, 2007 1:06 am

I'll take the question a step further. I feel the whole golden age of Marvel comics ended after the 80s. The 90s were all about the "hot" artists, and crazy crossovers, and big stories trying to top the one that was finished last month.

I think comics overall are better today than they were in the 90s... but nothing will ever top the 80s, IMO.
Image

User avatar
stevenkof
Freelance Photographer
Freelance Photographer
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:58 pm

Post by stevenkof » Fri May 25, 2007 9:46 am

when did that period end for you j.r? like i said, for me it was #289, up until that point things were (relatively) smooth. While i could understand your husband getting sour over the four arm thing, it did only last 2 issues and was a shocking moment, but it was nothing compared to what they did in later years. It certainly didnt have any long lasting impact. For me the hobgoblin saga was the highlight of spidermans period. The mystery probably went on a little too long, but it was still riveting and everyone was guessing right up to the very end, as the hobgoblin was a very strong presence in all of the issues he showed up in. I know from reading the articles on j.r 's site that he felt hobby went downhill with the rose stuff, for me it was actually exciting. The goblin would no longer be a loner just out to kill spidey, he had allies now and a bigger goal, it really did shake things up! Now venom would more or less take the goblins place after #300, but for me the continued apearances were not justified, no real motivation, no character, and lousy artwork contributed to my feelings about the era. I find this to be very interesting, and i hope to hear more on your opinions about it.

User avatar
MadGoblin
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 6:42 pm
Contact:

Post by MadGoblin » Fri May 25, 2007 12:06 pm

I have a little trouble talking about a "golden age" of Spider-Man, because too often such talk (and not just in comics) devolves into people bitching and moaning about how nothing is as good as it ever was and the past is always better, which isn't really true. With that oversimplification out of the way...

If there was really a "golden age," I tend to think that it was the first couple of years that Peter was in college in Amazing Spider-Man. But not because all of those stories were better than all of the stories told thereafter, because that's simply not true. Still, several of the key characters of the entire mythology, such as Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane Watson, and Norman and Harry Osborn, were introduced in this period. There was a freshness to the title. The series continued to move forward, with new characters, new situations, and characters did progress and develop.

However, Spidey soon stopped being a character and started becoming a commodity. After issue #60 or so, it seemed that Spidey started into a period of creative stagnation, partly because Stan Lee was running of out ideas, and also because if Spidey's aging and progression continued as it had - well, in no time he'd have been married, middle aged, with children and liver spots. Once Gwen "won" the battle for Peter's heart over Mary Jane, she stopped being an interesting character and became the cloying, crying girlfriend, and Peter began to look like a fool in keeping his identity secret from not only her, but from Harry as well. But then again, in the 1960's superheroes did not reveal their identities to anyone - it just wasn't done.

Marvel later began milking Spidey's appeal, first with Marvel Team-Up, as the iconoclastic and misunderstood Spider-Man began teaming up and becoming chummy with every hero in the Marvel Universe. Still, there were some great eras in which I could not wait for the next issue - such as the Marv Wolfman era (#182-204) and the Roger Stern era (first in Spectacular, and then in Amazing), which coincided with Bill Mantlo's run on Spectacular. To me, that period in the early-mid 1980's is the one I personally remember with the most fondness. As much as I always liked Tom DeFalco, I never felt his run on Amazing was very strong.

Like most everyone else, what the titles, and the industry lost in the 1990's when it was overcome with superstar artists, incessant crossovers and "events," it has never really regained - although I am probably somewhat in the minority in believing that the post-Clone Saga, pre-Reboot era was a strong one, even though one or two of the titles should have been dropped. I really liked DeMatteis' Spectacular and Mackie's Peter Parker during this time period (so sue me). Sensational was toilet paper material.

I also thought that 2004 was an exceptional year and that the titles had finally recovered from the post-Reboot hangover, but then the "events" started again, and now it seems that only the "events" matter to Marvel, with all of the characters, their titles, and their stories secondary.

Paul Harvey...Good Day!

User avatar
The Black Cat
Webslinger
Webslinger
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: cozying up to Spider at the Delta Tau Chi House as Cougar

Post by The Black Cat » Fri May 25, 2007 1:37 pm

Just to clarify: Hubby lost interest in Spidey after the 4 arm thing, but he has rebuilt his collection (I explained in another thread what he did to with his original collection :twisted: ) to include all Silver Age Spidey (except for the real expensive first ones, which are out of most collector's range nowadays anyway...) and most bronze, but he put the stop after 400. I guess I also need to clarify he's not just collecting Silver Age Spidey, but also Silver Age Fantastic Four, Thor, Hulk, Strange Tales, all the Sterankos, etc.

As it stands right now I'm the one going out and buying the new Spidey (after 2000) and sharing them with him, but he is not actively collecting new issues. I'm the one keeping him informed what's going on with Spidey right now and if he's interested in an arc, he will read mine and is happy with me having it in my collection.

Of course the Golden Age of Spidey will be different for everybody, because it is determined by when exactly you got exposed to the character. I can't possibly compare my experience with my husband, who says everytime he reads a Silver Age comic he's immediately transported back to when he was 10 years old, 1965 (comics are the fountain of youth lol!!!)buying the stuff new then rushing home to read them. I can't possibly compare that to my brother in law who is a true bronze age guy, loves McFarland and was big into the TV series. And obviously I'm the one who due to my unconditional support of my hubby's interest in comics (and my own curiousity as well) discovered Spidey but had a huge learning curve compared to most of you. Lucky for me there was a supporting character I discovered and who I'm devoted to (The Black Cat)...but there is no "nostalgia" factor for me, in fact I'm probably Marvel's worst nightmare because since I had to wade through all of the spidey canon to understand the character, I have dispassionatley seen what the ups and downs have been through out the entire run.
Image
"Spider Darling, don't you know what Tikis really stand for in Tahiti?"
Image

User avatar
F.N. Spider-Man
Black Suit Spidey
Black Suit Spidey
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:45 pm
Location: Colorado, U.S.A

Post by F.N. Spider-Man » Fri May 25, 2007 2:58 pm

It's unfortunate that you have no "nostalgia factor"... for me Black Cat is one of those nostalgic characters.

In a sad and depressing way, her relationship with Spider-Man really helped break the female force field when I was a pre-pubescent male.

Without Spidey and Black Cat, I'm not sure how I would have ever mustered the mojo to start talking to chicks.

I always figured if Pete could nail a chick like Felicia, why couldn't I?

I mean, I was way cooler than Pete! Just he fights crime, can stick to walls, and shoot goo out of his wrists...
There are no tough jobs, only weak men.

User avatar
Thanos6
Freelance Photographer
Freelance Photographer
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Deep 13
Contact:

Post by Thanos6 » Sun May 27, 2007 5:40 am

I'd actually say when the Robot Parents showed up in #365; sort of the unofficial beginning of the Clone Saga.

User avatar
stevenkof
Freelance Photographer
Freelance Photographer
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:58 pm

Post by stevenkof » Sun May 27, 2007 9:13 pm

robot parents, holy god i forgot about that one! ugh who let this stuff slide for crying out loud?

User avatar
SpiderMike
Freelance Photographer
Freelance Photographer
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 8:22 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by SpiderMike » Sun May 27, 2007 10:34 pm

The original clone saga finished it for me, in all honesty. I was left with a very bad case of "wtf" after it had all dies down. I lept to X-Men shortly after that but kept tabs on the Webhead and finally got around to re-embracing said wallcrawler round about the time Ultimate Spidey was coming out. I wasnt a 60's child So i couldnt identify with pete growing up but the Ultimate story arcs seemed to hit a cord with me.

I now have all the original clone saga in mint conditon, all graded 8 and above and its worth a pretty penny. lol. Weird how things turn out cos I actually understand it a little more now im older and hopefully a little wiser!

lmao.
Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Marceux
Webslinger
Webslinger
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:07 pm
Contact:

Post by Marceux » Mon May 28, 2007 3:12 am

Hmm, I was never into the comics as much as I was into the Animated Series. I only read a couple and those were the product of 90's money grubbing (as opposed to any other decade money grubbing). It was only until recently, when I started buying Ultimate Spider-man that I translated myself onto the 616 universe and started falling in love with Spider-man lore. So, like TBC (the Black Cat) I don't have a nostalgia factor. Unless we're talking about the animated series, then I'm all over that.
----

Zeta House Member "Bloom"

I'm not pro-BND. I'm just anti-you. Hee hee.

User avatar
Spideydude
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4357
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:05 am
Location: Texas Panhandle Chapter of the Crawl Space Command Center

Post by Spideydude » Mon May 28, 2007 10:31 am

SpiderMike wrote:The original clone saga finished it for me, in all honesty. I was left with a very bad case of "wtf" after it had all dies down. I lept to X-Men shortly after that but kept tabs on the Webhead and finally got around to re-embracing said wallcrawler round about the time Ultimate Spidey was coming out. I wasnt a 60's child So i couldnt identify with pete growing up but the Ultimate story arcs seemed to hit a cord with me.

I now have all the original clone saga in mint conditon, all graded 8 and above and its worth a pretty penny. lol. Weird how things turn out cos I actually understand it a little more now im older and hopefully a little wiser!

lmao.
As a Fan, I'm STILL trying to get the whole Saga. Grr. *Jealous*
This Post was Brought to you by... Spideydude! Your Friendly Neighborhood Administrator!
Check out My Exclusive Online SeriesCrawl Space Avengers!
CSA Member Since 2003 Delta House Member: Cyclone

JR Fettingers Marvel:I'd hire Spideydude to be me at conventions, with his cowboy hat, a cigar sticking out of his mouth, and a beer in his hand because he would certainly look a lot "cooler" and "more relatable" to the fanbase that a short, gray haired middle aged man.

Image

User avatar
Venom65437
Avenger
Avenger
Posts: 2085
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: Fort Myers, Florida
Contact:

Post by Venom65437 » Mon May 28, 2007 6:52 pm

Spideydude wrote:
SpiderMike wrote:The original clone saga finished it for me, in all honesty. I was left with a very bad case of "wtf" after it had all dies down. I lept to X-Men shortly after that but kept tabs on the Webhead and finally got around to re-embracing said wallcrawler round about the time Ultimate Spidey was coming out. I wasnt a 60's child So i couldnt identify with pete growing up but the Ultimate story arcs seemed to hit a cord with me.

I now have all the original clone saga in mint conditon, all graded 8 and above and its worth a pretty penny. lol. Weird how things turn out cos I actually understand it a little more now im older and hopefully a little wiser!

lmao.
As a Fan, I'm STILL trying to get the whole Saga. Grr. *Jealous*
Heh, I think the only issue I am missing is the one after Onslaught where all the heroes were dead and Spidey remembers them. Not essential at all...
Image

User avatar
Spideydude
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4357
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:05 am
Location: Texas Panhandle Chapter of the Crawl Space Command Center

Post by Spideydude » Mon May 28, 2007 7:52 pm

well, Only if you want to see some early Ron Garney Work....
This Post was Brought to you by... Spideydude! Your Friendly Neighborhood Administrator!
Check out My Exclusive Online SeriesCrawl Space Avengers!
CSA Member Since 2003 Delta House Member: Cyclone

JR Fettingers Marvel:I'd hire Spideydude to be me at conventions, with his cowboy hat, a cigar sticking out of his mouth, and a beer in his hand because he would certainly look a lot "cooler" and "more relatable" to the fanbase that a short, gray haired middle aged man.

Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest