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Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

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Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Personally, I feel that Carol and Peter should take their time with their friendship slowly in the background. In addition, it might be best to diversify Peter's mutual relationship to no more than 6 female heroines because I don't think that any one person on the Spider-Man side should standout as a potential love interest. The idea is to expand those mutual relationships beyond The Black Cat. Thus, if there are 5-6 other heroines(Besides Black Cat) who are interested in Spider-Man, than a writer could choose which one to use because he wouldn't be stuck with using The Black Cat. There are writers who might like The She-Hulk, Silver Sable, Psylocke, Spider-Woman, or Ms. Marvel. So it gives the writer a chance to use a their favorite heroine(who has a positive chemistry with Spidey) in a team-up story with Spider-Man that they wouldn't otherwise had used. I could see a mutual friendship among the women I have mentioned for Spider-Man. But, it is best to leave things at the close friends level and not extend it into a serious relationship because it would cause a conflict of interest among those who many or many not like the idea. Therefore, a longterm friendship with a heroine might be ideal for Spider-Man with a little tension between them.

I think that my view on this has to do with the idea of Spider-Man forming a mutual relationship that he had with Felicia Hardy before OMD. I felt that there should be a close group of heroines who could have a close relationship with Spider-Man like:

Silver Sable
Ms. Marvel
Psylocke
Spider-Woman
She-Hulk
Black Cat

I feel that anyone of those women would work best for Spider-Man. Especially if a writer likes the idea of a master list of heroines that they want to use if they are doing a Spider-Man team-up story. I simply like the idea of diversification to at least 6 heroines who are close friends with Spider-Man because the potential of doing a bigger story is there. I don't like the idea of a rushed relationship as it was done to The Black Cat and Spider-Man. And this might be the reason why Dan Slott has resisted the idea of doing this type of relationship. Thus, I like the idea of the selected heroines in a relationship with Peter in the same manner as his relationship with Mary Jane or Betty Brant.

When I refer to a relationship with a female hero, I am implying on the idea of Peter expanding that relationship to at least 5 other heroines in addition to the Black Cat. This way, we can see a different side of Spidey's relationship with heroines that are different from his relationship with The Black Cat.

Personally, I don't think that Peter should be in a relationship with anyone at this time. The only reason why fans were hostile towards Carlie because the relationship never took its time to grow organically as a mutual relationship first. This way, the fans who have come to like the character. I still feel that Carlie isn't out of the game with Peter Parker. It's just going to take its time from this point onwards in a slow and steady manner. Just like Peter's relationship with Mary Jane is just taking its time slowly.

The Black Cat recently rejected him because she didn't want to be known as the rebound girl for Spider-Man. Any woman who is interested in Spider-Man/Peter Parker is not going to have a serious relationship with a man who just got dumped by his recent ex-girlfriend. There are no Friends with Benefits for Spider-Man.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Donomark » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:23 pm

What would be best is for the ASM books to stop treating every single female character as the next potential proverbial Bond girl and develop an honest relationship with Peter before pushing the button on romance. The single, solitary character not to have that done is Glory Grant, for obvious reasons.

I know comic books are primarily a male power fantasy, but that's what keeps them juvenile. If the mindset behind the female characters' creation and inclusion would stop being primarily sexist, whatever romantic relationship that would follow would be all the more interesting. The reason why Mary Jane is so liked I think is because she and Peter had that platonic streak develop into a genuine love for each other. They were best friends, they loved each other's personality, and accepted the good and bad parts. That's not strictly something that's beholden to only two people. There can be relationships where Peter is up against Bella Swachfishbuckler-whatever, or Sanjani Pantytwist and have them be more important to character development without the "Will they, won't they?" factor. But that's too complex for this current regime.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Sarcasmic » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:42 pm

Donomark wrote:What would be best is for the ASM books to stop treating every single female character as the next potential proverbial Bond girl and develop an honest relationship with Peter before pushing the button on romance. The single, solitary character not to have that done is Glory Grant, for obvious reasons.

I know comic books are primarily a male power fantasy, but that's what keeps them juvenile. If the mindset behind the female characters' creation and inclusion would stop being primarily sexist, whatever romantic relationship that would follow would be all the more interesting. The reason why Mary Jane is so liked I think is because she and Peter had that platonic streak develop into a genuine love for each other. They were best friends, they loved each other's personality, and accepted the good and bad parts. That's not strictly something that's beholden to only two people. There can be relationships where Peter is up against Bella Swachfishbuckler-whatever, or Sanjani Pantytwist and have them be more important to character development without the "Will they, won't they?" factor. But that's too complex for this current regime.


That got me thinking...
Wouldn't be nice if someone like Kathryn Immonen took over Spider-Man once Slott was off? Has ASM ever had a female writer?
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Phantom Roxas » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:41 pm

jiredline wrote:In addition, it might be best to diversify Peter's mutual relationship to no more than 6 female heroines because I don't think that any one person on the Spider-Man side should standout as a potential love interest.


Yes they should, as Spider-Man has such a diverse supporting cast that it would be best to take advantage of it.

I don't care for Black Cat. She's sexy, but that's all she has going for her that interests me. I was unaware of any tension between Peter and Psylocke, to which I have to shake my head at. Just leave Psylocke's romantic tension to Uncanny X-Forcce. I'm interested in learning about Ms. Marvel, and considering her membership on the New Avengers and July's issue of Avenging Spider-Man, there is potential to be explored, but like Psylocke, leave her love life to her own book when it launches. Spider-Woman is Carol's best friend, and there was discussion on that point in a previous thread, which I believe you started. Since She-Hulk is appearing in Avenging soon, my thoughts are the same as for Carol. Silver Sable is another supporting character in Spider-Man's cast, but we'll see where she's left off by the time Ends of the Earth is over.

jlredline wrote:The only reason why fans were hostile towards Carlie because the relationship never took its time to grow organically as a mutual relationship first.


No, people were hostile because they hated how much of an annoying Mary Sue she was, and having everyone insist that she was perfect for Peter was just salt in the wound, especially since I read that Felicia was supporting the relationship. Are you kidding me? I maintain the idea that Carly is a succubus created by Mephisto.

Just let Slott's run end and have someone else take over.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:04 am

Phantom Roxas wrote:Yes they should, as Spider-Man has such a diverse supporting cast that it would be best to take advantage of it.

I don't care for Black Cat. She's sexy, but that's all she has going for her that interests me. I was unaware of any tension between Peter and Psylocke, to which I have to shake my head at. Just leave Psylocke's romantic tension to Uncanny X-Forcce. I'm interested in learning about Ms. Marvel, and considering her membership on the New Avengers and July's issue of Avenging Spider-Man, there is potential to be explored, but like Psylocke, leave her love life to her own book when it launches. Spider-Woman is Carol's best friend, and there was discussion on that point in a previous thread, which I believe you started. Since She-Hulk is appearing in Avenging soon, my thoughts are the same as for Carol. Silver Sable is another supporting character in Spider-Man's cast, but we'll see where she's left off by the time Ends of the Earth is over.

jlredline wrote:The only reason why fans were hostile towards Carlie because the relationship never took its time to grow organically as a mutual relationship first.


No, people were hostile because they hated how much of an annoying Mary Sue she was, and having everyone insist that she was perfect for Peter was just salt in the wound, especially since I read that Felicia was supporting the relationship. Are you kidding me? I maintain the idea that Carly is a succubus created by Mephisto.

Just let Slott's run end and have someone else take over.


With regards to Psylocke, if a writer who is working on any of the X-Books is interested with using Spider-Man, the best approach is to do a story between Spider-Man and Psylocke by mentioning that they met through Captain Britain(her brother). And there was a time when Brian Braddock and Peter Parker were roommates. Thus it might have been possible that Peter met his sister, Betsy Braddock(before she became Psylocke) and became fast friends. If a writer is able to bring out this side to Peter's past friendship with Psylocke in a positive manner, then there might be a strong interest to see Psylocke appear in The Avenging Spider-Man. I was told that there are a few writers involved with the X-Book who would kill for the chance to write a Spider-Man story. This might be an interest that they should consider.

I think that it will be a very long time before Dan Slott leave ASM.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Phantom Roxas » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:46 am

So Spider-Man and Psylocke have never even met? The why bring her up? Even more jarring is that if they haven't, then it would be a retcon to say that they have. Granted, retcons are common in comics, but still. They might encounter each other over the course of AvX, but VS has them fighting other characters. Do you really think that bringing Spider-Man into the X-books would be best done by mentioning they're mutual friendships with Captain Britain? Why not take advantage of the fact that both Spider-Man and Wolverine are members of the New Avengers? Wolverine has something that needs to be done, but requires the help of both the New Avengers and the X-Force to take care of it. Spider-Man and Psylocke can then chat during the resulting crossover.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Enigma_2099 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:28 am

Here we go again...

... yes, I'm talking to YOU, jlredline.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:17 pm

Phantom Roxas wrote:So Spider-Man and Psylocke have never even met? The why bring her up? Even more jarring is that if they haven't, then it would be a retcon to say that they have. Granted, retcons are common in comics, but still. They might encounter each other over the course of AvX, but VS has them fighting other characters. Do you really think that bringing Spider-Man into the X-books would be best done by mentioning they're mutual friendships with Captain Britain? Why not take advantage of the fact that both Spider-Man and Wolverine are members of the New Avengers? Wolverine has something that needs to be done, but requires the help of both the New Avengers and the X-Force to take care of it. Spider-Man and Psylocke can then chat during the resulting crossover.


I thought about that in the past with Wolverine asking Spider-Man to team-up with him in X-Force in a story arc. This might be a good way to do it. I could actually see
The Secret Avengers and X-Force working together.

Enigma_2099 wrote:Here we go again...

... yes, I'm talking to YOU, jlredline.


Don't worry. Spidey isn't going to engage in a romantic relationship with anyone. I am only taking about expanding Spidey's close superheroine relationships besides The Black Cat. A little diversity make the stories interesting once in awhile. This is a not a status que.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Sat May 26, 2012 12:10 am

Here is a clip on Spider-Man: Web of Shadows, where The Black Widow plays a role in the story. Fast forward the clip to 4:40 because that's the start of Spider-Man's interaction with The Black Widow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52H7wxKsiU&feature=youtu.be

And to think that Silver Sable acts exactly like the Black Widow at times also.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Enigma_2099 » Tue May 29, 2012 10:44 pm

jlredline wrote:Here is a clip on Spider-Man: Web of Shadows, where The Black Widow plays a role in the story. Fast forward the clip to 4:40 because that's the start of Spider-Man's interaction with The Black Widow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52H7wxKsiU&feature=youtu.be

And to think that Silver Sable acts exactly like the Black Widow at times also.



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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:04 am

Here is a link that some of you might find interesting:

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_ ... tml#cutid1
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby Constantine » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:29 pm

jlredline wrote:Here is a link that some of you might find interesting:

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_ ... tml#cutid1


I remember that one. They even kissed during that arc, though once BW got her memory back they realized there wasn't really anything between them.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:04 am

Constantine wrote:
jlredline wrote:Here is a link that some of you might find interesting:

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_ ... tml#cutid1


I remember that one. They even kissed during that arc, though once BW got her memory back they realized there wasn't really anything between them.


Yeah. But the Black Widow never apologized to Spider-Man for kissing him either. At the time, she didn't want to admit that she felt something between them, as well as the fact that she was trying to reconcile with Daredevil. Thus, Natasha didn't want to start a potential relationship with Spider-Man because she wanted to patch things up with Daredevil. The only reason to why there was never a follow up to the story was because no other Spider-Man writer at that time was interested with using the Black Widow as a guest. This was around the same time that the Black Cat was introduced. Thus, a potential relationship between Spider-Man x Black Widow never had a chance.
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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby MacGyver » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:36 am

Is there anyone in the Marvel Universe who hasn't had a "mutual relationship" with Black Widow?

Furthermore...anyone brave enough to handle She Hulk...more power to you. I remember this poster hanging up in my LCS back in th 90's...and all the nerds flocking to it with that open-mouth gape that Indiana Jones had when he first set eyes on the Arc of the Covenant. I think the not so subtle symbolism Jusko was expressing is, "No man can handle a 'mutual relationship' with the SHulk."

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Re: Spider-Man's Mutual Relationships with a Heroine

Postby jlredline » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:09 am

MacGyver wrote:Is there anyone in the Marvel Universe who hasn't had a "mutual relationship" with Black Widow?

Furthermore...anyone brave enough to handle She Hulk...more power to you. I remember this poster hanging up in my LCS back in th 90's...and all the nerds flocking to it with that open-mouth gape that Indiana Jones had when he first set eyes on the Arc of the Covenant. I think the not so subtle symbolism Jusko was expressing is, "No man can handle a 'mutual relationship' with the She-Hulk."

Mac



I think that Peter Parker and Jennifer Walters(in her human form) in their civilian guise who become fast friends. As the She-Hulk, Jennifer and Spider-Man would get along quite well after a while of working together. The recent team-up of Spidey and She-Hulk(without the 4th wall) was one of the more interesting stories that they had together in a long time.
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