Podcast 153 Sept 2011 What did you think?

[BD]

Yes, two shows in two days. This is what happens when I take a week off. What did you think of the show?
The opening song is here.

[Donomark]

I enjoyed the ASM #665 talk from all angles, and the Spider-History segment was great!

[gregxb]

I also enjoyed the #665 talk. The only place I have to disagree with you on is how Peter and Betty's significant others should be iffy on them spending time together like this. Maybe this is just me, and my own circle... but as far as women I have been involved with, when I hung out with another girl as a friend like that, or she hung out with guy friends... there was no jealousy, no "concerns," nothing. So, I don't think such a thing goes against human nature.

I do agree the movie night in the hospital room was stupid though.

[iron_patriot]

Where the hell has Kev been? I miss the bastard.

[stillanerd]

Great show, guys, particularly your in-depth review of Amazing Spider-Man #665 and the problems of Carlie Cooper in general. Since it was brought up with regards to how the Jackal still knows Peter is Spider-Man, turns out Dan Slott was asked this very question in an CBR interview:

CBR: In one scene in issue #668, he talks about how he never tires of seeing Peter Parker's face, no matter how many times he masks it, unmasks it, liquefies it or wears it as a hat. That's a very telling statement; the Jackal talking about masking and unmasking Pete suggests that he knows that Pete is Spider-Man. Did Doctor Strange's spell that protects Pete's identity not work on the Jackal?

Dan Slott: If you go back and look at the story I wrote with the Fantastic Four (that's collected in the "24/7" trade of "Amazing Spider-Man"), Peter lays out the rules of Doctor Strange's mind-wipe spell. He tells Reed Richards that it created a psychic blind spot, that even if there's a stack of evidence pointing to the fact that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, that person's mind won't let them connect the dots. Or their mind will come up with a solution that they can accept. It just won't be the right one.

Pete goes on to explain that the only way his identity can be compromised is if someone unmasks him or if he unmasks himself. In that case, that person's memories of Peter Parker being Spider-Man will all come rushing back.

So if you're the Jackal, and you're growing something that you know to be a clone of Spider-Man, and you put it in a mask and then you unmask it, you'd then know Spider-Man's secret identity. It's all there in that line -- the Jackal says, "Parker. I'll never get tired of that face, no matter how many times I've masked it, unmasked it, liquefied it or worn it like a little hat." He's fulfilled the conditions of Doctor Strange's spell.

So in other words, the official canonical explanation is that the Jackal--off-panel, mind you--re-cloned Spider-Man, put a Spider-Man mask on his head, removed the mask, instantly remembered that Peter Parker is Spider-Man due to negating the psychic blindspot, and then destroyed the clone. So...yeah. Of course, why the Jackal would feel the need to do this or know that by putting on and remasking Peter's clone would make him remember is still unexplained.

[stevejrogers]

George, was your comment about Martin Sheen not pulling off as good of an Uncle Ben as Cliff Robertson due to a personal dislike of Martin Sheen (either acting or politics) or do you think the role should be done by a more grounded character actor?

Just seems odd considering Sheen's standing as one of the more respected and accomplished actors out there, while Robertson's career is basically a character actor, or an "Hey it's that guy" type of actor.

BTW, that is NOT in any way a slam at character actors/Hey It's That Guy actors, its just that they aren't on the same tier that Martin Sheen was on at the peak of his career.

[spideytothemax]

Great show, guys, particularly your in-depth review of Amazing Spider-Man #665 and the problems of Carlie Cooper in general. Since it was brought up with regards to how the Jackal still knows Peter is Spider-Man, turns out Dan Slott was asked this very question in an CBR interview:

CBR: In one scene in issue #668, he talks about how he never tires of seeing Peter Parker's face, no matter how many times he masks it, unmasks it, liquefies it or wears it as a hat. That's a very telling statement; the Jackal talking about masking and unmasking Pete suggests that he knows that Pete is Spider-Man. Did Doctor Strange's spell that protects Pete's identity not work on the Jackal?

Dan Slott: If you go back and look at the story I wrote with the Fantastic Four (that's collected in the "24/7" trade of "Amazing Spider-Man"), Peter lays out the rules of Doctor Strange's mind-wipe spell. He tells Reed Richards that it created a psychic blind spot, that even if there's a stack of evidence pointing to the fact that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, that person's mind won't let them connect the dots. Or their mind will come up with a solution that they can accept. It just won't be the right one.

Pete goes on to explain that the only way his identity can be compromised is if someone unmasks him or if he unmasks himself. In that case, that person's memories of Peter Parker being Spider-Man will all come rushing back.

So if you're the Jackal, and you're growing something that you know to be a clone of Spider-Man, and you put it in a mask and then you unmask it, you'd then know Spider-Man's secret identity. It's all there in that line -- the Jackal says, "Parker. I'll never get tired of that face, no matter how many times I've masked it, unmasked it, liquefied it or worn it like a little hat." He's fulfilled the conditions of Doctor Strange's spell.

So in other words, the official canonical explanation is that the Jackal--off-panel, mind you--re-cloned Spider-Man, put a Spider-Man mask on his head, removed the mask, instantly remembered that Peter Parker is Spider-Man due to negating the psychic blindspot, and then destroyed the clone. So...yeah. Of course, why the Jackal would feel the need to do this or know that by putting on and remasking Peter's clone would make him remember is still unexplained.

That seems like something that ought to have been in the book. The scene with Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, and Jessica Jones from the latest issue comes to mind as a scene that could have been easily cut in favor of explaining how the Jackal knows Peter's identity. Two issues left though. Maybe he still plans to explain it on the page.

[George Berryman]

George, was your comment about Martin Sheen not pulling off as good of an Uncle Ben as Cliff Robertson due to a personal dislike of Martin Sheen (either acting or politics) or do you think the role should be done by a more grounded character actor?

Getting a character actor is irrelevant, though character actors excel at establishing a recognizable 'type' rather quickly. A character actor might be able to pull off a more sympathetic Uncle Ben given the short time that the character ostensibly fits into the origin story.

Just seems odd considering Sheen's standing as one of the more respected and accomplished actors out there, while Robertson's career is basically a character actor, or an "Hey it's that guy" type of actor.

I'd argue against Cliff Robertson as a character actor. When I think of character actors I think of Wilford Brimley, Walter Brennan or Jack Black (though I use the term 'actor' loosely in his case.) Robertson showed amazing range in his career, especially with roles ranging from the titular character in Charlie, for which he won an Academy Award, and even a WWII era JFK.

BTW, that is NOT in any way a slam at character actors/Hey It's That Guy actors, its just that they aren't on the same tier that Martin Sheen was on at the peak of his career.

Sheen's overrated.

[spideytothemax]

That video made me laugh. Spidey really hates that band.

[stevejrogers]

Where the hell has Kev been? I miss the bastard.

He's living it up at the Hotel California!

Seriously, acting school out in LA. Probably way too busy with that to set aside the time to do the pod for a while.

[gregxb]

BTW Brad, Bertone should totally be a permanent addition to the podcast crew. He brings a lot to the table.

[BD]

That's funny you should post this Greg, I just offered the regular gig to Bertone and he accepted. He does bring a lot of Spider-Knowledge to the table.

[DarkKnightJared]

Great show, guys, particularly your in-depth review of Amazing Spider-Man #665 and the problems of Carlie Cooper in general. Since it was brought up with regards to how the Jackal still knows Peter is Spider-Man, turns out Dan Slott was asked this very question in an CBR interview:

CBR: In one scene in issue #668, he talks about how he never tires of seeing Peter Parker's face, no matter how many times he masks it, unmasks it, liquefies it or wears it as a hat. That's a very telling statement; the Jackal talking about masking and unmasking Pete suggests that he knows that Pete is Spider-Man. Did Doctor Strange's spell that protects Pete's identity not work on the Jackal?

Dan Slott: If you go back and look at the story I wrote with the Fantastic Four (that's collected in the "24/7" trade of "Amazing Spider-Man"), Peter lays out the rules of Doctor Strange's mind-wipe spell. He tells Reed Richards that it created a psychic blind spot, that even if there's a stack of evidence pointing to the fact that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, that person's mind won't let them connect the dots. Or their mind will come up with a solution that they can accept. It just won't be the right one.

Pete goes on to explain that the only way his identity can be compromised is if someone unmasks him or if he unmasks himself. In that case, that person's memories of Peter Parker being Spider-Man will all come rushing back.

So if you're the Jackal, and you're growing something that you know to be a clone of Spider-Man, and you put it in a mask and then you unmask it, you'd then know Spider-Man's secret identity. It's all there in that line -- the Jackal says, "Parker. I'll never get tired of that face, no matter how many times I've masked it, unmasked it, liquefied it or worn it like a little hat." He's fulfilled the conditions of Doctor Strange's spell.

So in other words, the official canonical explanation is that the Jackal--off-panel, mind you--re-cloned Spider-Man, put a Spider-Man mask on his head, removed the mask, instantly remembered that Peter Parker is Spider-Man due to negating the psychic blindspot, and then destroyed the clone. So...yeah. Of course, why the Jackal would feel the need to do this or know that by putting on and remasking Peter's clone would make him remember is still unexplained.

Well, I hate to use this an example...but wasn't the whole point of Maximium Clonage that Jackal cloned Peter, like, a thousand times? And cloned him different times before that to create Ben and Kaine? I didn't think of that before, but I can totally see that making sense.

Anyway, episode thoughts forthcoming.

[DarkKnightJared]

I dunno, Aunt May with spider-powers would have been so strange that it could be interesting, if only for one issue, much like the JJJ stuff.

While I think the "friends with Betty" thing could work without any major jealousy, I do agree with JR about the Aunt May thing and how he should have told her what he's been doing at that time.

As for May's worry about Peter that night being selfish...now, I don't remember if it was mentioned in the issue, but I seem to recall maybe in an interview or something that there's also worry for Peter's safety, too. Her husband, who's she's lived with for so long, is dead, and now her nephew, who she raised like a mother, is now missing, probably just as alone and distraught as she was. I get how that can be considered selfish, but I can also understand that feeling at the same time.

Yeah, not at least showing him fighting Mephisto with the Avengers or something in #666 is definitely a huge miss.

Stella's Aunt May voice...oh GOD that's going to haunt my dreams tonight.

On how the crowd could take on the Avengers--I took that to be simple numbers. It's hard to calm down any riot, and it becomes even harder when both parties have super-powers.

To be fair, I believe Marvel gave the New Universe to Warren Ellis some years back to try to revive. Didn't really set the world on fire, though.

Good episode.