by butters911 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:39 pm
by GeorgeEl » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:20 pm
by Thrawn » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:22 pm
FSUSpiderFan wrote:You make a strong argument Thrawn but I still think this could go either way.
FSUSpiderFan wrote: He is certainly not going to try to take Doomsday head on.
FSUSpiderFan wrote: He will distract him with telekinsis, duplicates, rock monsters, and then use some more formidable ones such as matter manipulation, teleportation of body parts, and intangibility.
teleportation of body parts, and intangibility.
FSUSpiderFan wrote:I don't think Doomsday is going to become to all of Loki's magic from exposure to one or two spells.
FSUSpiderFan wrote:He may become immune to specific spells that have already been used on him though.
butters911 wrote:Could Loki make as many duplicates of himself as he wants? If so, Doomsday could end up fighting a million Lokis
FSUSpiderFan wrote: The God of Trickery is going to be shifty.
FSUSpiderFan wrote:This is fun
by Thrawn » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:32 pm
GeorgeEl wrote:Thrawn, you keep saying Doomsday is stronger than Hulk like it's an established fact.
GeorgeEl wrote: I feel like Hulk and Doomsday would be pretty fairly matched.
GeorgeEl wrote:So then the fact that Hulk beat wussified Loki really doesn't mean anything, right?
GeorgeEl wrote:I think that 1). Loki is more powerful than the Radiant and 2).
GeorgeEl wrote: Loki has more versatile magic/power at his disposal than the Radiant.
GeorgeEl wrote:And just because Doomsday has faced the Radiant and evolved past him doesn't mean that type of attack can't hurt him.
GeorgeEl wrote: then Waverider was able to hurt Doomsday with his energy attacks.
GeorgeEl wrote: Loki has countless magics/spells/tricks at his disposal.
GeorgeEl wrote: If Waverider's attacks were different enough from the Radiant's to hurt Doomsday,
GeorgeEl wrote: I figure Loki's attacks are different and more varied enough from Doomsday's previous opponents' to put him down.
Any weakness Doomsday has that is used against him could no longer be considered a weakness, as he could adapt to it.
Doomsday has also developed weapons and abilities that counters the powers of an opponent. He managed to cancel out the pure-energy Radiant by slamming into him; to greatly extend his claws and develop a poison to strike Superman in flight and reel him in; or breathe flames against the fire-sensitive Martian Manhunter, and apparently neutralize his defensive phase-shifting power
Doomsday now adapts nearly instantly to threats.
by butters911 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:47 pm
by Thrawn » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:49 pm
butters911 wrote:Doomsday sounds a lot like Freak, with the ability to evolve past anything and what not. That should be a fight club match. Freak vs Doomsday in a who could evolve past being able to die first match
by tnr105 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:08 pm
Loki is no different. Loki is no where near the strongest Asgardian.
Loki, without the aid of anything, through his own biology, possesses superhuman strength that is substantially superior to that of an average Asgardian female or male.
His magical energies are so imbued into his body that he can reattach severed limbs and, while still a male, even reattached his own head at least once.
However, much like his physical strength and durability, Loki can temporarily augment his stamina through magical means.
by butters911 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:53 pm
Thrawn wrote:butters911 wrote:Doomsday sounds a lot like Freak, with the ability to evolve past anything and what not. That should be a fight club match. Freak vs Doomsday in a who could evolve past being able to die first match
Is that the OMD/BND drug addict guy? If so I suggested that match when Fight Club first started last year.
by FSUSpiderFan » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:52 pm
by CrazyChris » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:47 pm
by GeorgeEl » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:01 pm
Thrawn wrote:GeorgeEl wrote: Loki has more versatile magic/power at his disposal than the Radiant.
I agree.GeorgeEl wrote:And just because Doomsday has faced the Radiant and evolved past him doesn't mean that type of attack can't hurt him.
Wrong. That attack would never work again.
Thrawn wrote: None of Loki's spells are powerful enough to outright kill Doomsday. And if you don't outright kill him with something, he becomes immune to it. End of story.
by Thrawn » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:44 am
CrazyChris wrote:Loki vs. 100 Green Lanterns: Loki would be disadvantaged on physical power, but I actually think he would be a challenging opponent nonetheless. The more opponents, the more people he has to play against each other using trickery.
CrazyChris wrote: Darkseid doesn't strike me as a deceptive snake so much as a brutal totalitarian warlord.
CrazyChris wrote:So I think these characters aren't quite intelligent in the particular way that Loki is intelligent.
CrazyChris wrote:Doomsday is way more powerful than the Hulk: The Hulk gets stronger the madder he gets with no definite upper limit. If he fought Doomsday then they would both keep getting stronger and the question would be whether Hulks anger or Doomsday's evolution rises faster.
CrazyChris wrote: Thrawn, I see you're getting frustrated with statements along the lines of "Loki could figure out some way to turn this fight to his advantage" and are demanding specifics. The thing is, though, is that none of us are gods of mischief, so how could we come up with the specific tactics Loki would use in this fight? Loki would come up with something that none of us on this board could think of because none of us think like Loki.
His passionate hatred of Thor, lust for power, and his tendency to alienate himself through his ignoble actions greatly impedes his ability to bring his well laid plans to fruition.
CrazyChris wrote:So, really, the question is which matters more in a Fight Club scenario, brute power or trickery. One point in brute power's favor is that this is Fight Club, not trickiness club. At the end of the day, the winner is the one who overpowers his opponent.
CrazyChris wrote: On the other hand, trickery lets you prevent your opponent from using his brute power effectively.
CrazyChris wrote: On the other other hand, it sounds like Doomsday doesn't have much of a mind that Loki can get leverage over. From the way he's been described in this thread, he's more like a force of nature with only the dimmest consciousness guiding his actions
CrazyChris wrote: I don't know if that makes him less susceptible to trickery because he doesn't have much of a mind to toy with, or if it makes him more susceptible to trickery because he won't be able to think through Loki's tactics?
His powers also allowed him to extend his claws to strike while Superman was in flight and reel him in while slowly poisoning him in the aforementioned Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey or breathe flames against the Martian Manhunter in Superman #175.Doomsday now adapts nearly instantly to threats.
GeorgeEl wrote:Correct me (again) if I'm wrong, but during their second fight, didn't the Radiant attack, stop, turn around thinking he'd won again, then get pummeled in the back by Doomsday?
GeorgeEl wrote:Anyways, what I'm getting at is Doomsday evolves to the point where he can't be killed by the same attack twice, but it seems like a powerful attack can stun him twice.
GeorgeEl wrote: So, what I'm thinking is Loki can cast one spell, see that that only stuns Doomsday, throw another spell, then another, and another until one works.
Doomsday now adapts nearly instantly to threats.
GeorgeEl wrote:Like CrazyChris said, I don't have Loki's mind, but if we establish that Loki's attacks are more varied than the Radiant's and that there is enough difference between Radiant's pure energy attacks and Waverider's energy attacks to make a difference, then Loki's multifaceted attacks can do damage.
GeorgeEl wrote: For example, I feel like Loki can create fire spells at least as powerful as Waverider's attacks, energy spells like the Radiant's, magic spells like Doc Strange, lasers like Darkseid... and that all these various attacks can at least stun Doomsday until one of them works.
GeorgeEl wrote: I feel like the god of mischief is different enough from anyone Doomsday has previously faced that, if given the time, he will throw out an attack powerful enough and new enough to put Doomsday down.
GeorgeEl wrote:I don't think the story ends here. If he keeps throwing out different attacks that each hurt him, that's like throwing punches that hurt and tire him.
GeorgeEl wrote:To me, that's the big difference between Superman's fight and everyone else's fight: Superman kept attacking and eventually Doomsday got tired and the aggregate affects of all the attacks put him down. I think as he was throwing his last punch, Superman recognized this was all they both had to give; he recognized Doomsday was spent at that point. Doomsday can be beaten with enough attacks, no single attack will put him down.
GeorgeEl wrote:He can't even hover above Doomsday because of his leaping ability.
GeorgeEl wrote:I know Doomsday will be able to take that first hit, and I think Loki can take it. I
GeorgeEl wrote: If Loki recognizes Doomsday's speed and avoids being hit by him while throwing varied, powerful attacks, then I think Loki takes it.
All that said, I buy your intangibility argument, and with that out of the picture for Loki, he will have a hard time avoiding Doomsday. And the fight cannot go too long, because Loki can't dodge very long. He can't even hover above Doomsday because of his leaping ability.
GeorgeEl wrote: Because I think Loki, the god of mischief, would do all that, I'm 51% convinced he'll win.
by Thrawn » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:02 am
At the end of the day, I would posit that Loki's abilities in deception and trickery are at least equal in magnitude to Doomsday's physical powers.
by AmFan15 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:59 am
Loki's powers are believed to at least be slightly weaker on Midgard than on Asgard, as his birth was not of Gaea, and even Odin's magic was on the wane on Earth.
"Whether Aunt May dies or not isn't the question. If she dies, does it mean anything beyond a brief sales spike because collectors/speculators think they'll be able to make a profit selling the book later? That is the question. Back when, Stan and company won our hearts and minds. I cared about Spider-Man and the other Marvel characters as though they were friends. I cared every time Aunt May got sick. That's what good creative work does."
by CrazyChris » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:10 am
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