Friendly Fire Fight Club #187 - 'The CLIFF PERILOUS!'

[butters911]

Could Loki make as many duplicates of himself as he wants? If so, Doomsday could end up fighting a million Lokis

[GeorgeEl]

Thrawn, you keep saying Doomsday is stronger than Hulk like it's an established fact. I'm not sure I buy that; or maybe I don't know enough about them both, but I feel like Hulk and Doomsday would be pretty fairly matched. So then the fact that Hulk beat wussified Loki really doesn't mean anything, right? And the Radiant beat Doomsday, (fight club win) THEN Doomsday evolved, came back and beat him (fight club rematch win).

I think that 1). Loki is more powerful than the Radiant and 2). Loki has more versatile magic/power at his disposal than the Radiant. The Radiant came at Doomsday with the exact same attack for the second fight, suggesting that was the only attack he was capable of. Loki has countless magics/spells/tricks at his disposal. And just because Doomsday has faced the Radiant and evolved past him doesn't mean that type of attack can't hurt him. The Radiant beat Doomsday, then Doomsday came back and evolved past him and beat him, then Waverider was able to hurt Doomsday with his energy attacks. If Waverider's attacks were different enough from the Radiant's to hurt Doomsday, then I figure Loki's attacks are different and more varied enough from Doomsday's previous opponents' to put him down. I'm leaning towards Loki on this one.

[Thrawn]

You make a strong argument Thrawn but I still think this could go either way.

Once again, you're telling me that Loki could take a hundred Green Lantern's at the same time then. I think that's ridiculous when the Hulk could take Loki.

He is certainly not going to try to take Doomsday head on.

He doesn't have that many options here. Look at the arena they're fighting in.

He will distract him with telekinsis, duplicates, rock monsters, and then use some more formidable ones such as matter manipulation, teleportation of body parts, and intangibility.

Doomsday is pretty single minded. If it were that simple, don't you think Darkseid would have beaten Doomsday? Darkseid possess all those powers too.

teleportation of body parts, and intangibility.

Cause Loki has killed all his enemies before by simply teleporting their heads off. I remember when he did that to Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk. Oh..wait. That never happened. And for the last time, that requires a stationary target, and Doomsday will be up in his face.

I don't think Doomsday is going to become to all of Loki's magic from exposure to one or two spells.

You're stubbornly mistaken. He was exposed to Waverider's quantum energy twice within minutes and became resistant.

He may become immune to specific spells that have already been used on him though.

Loki's spells are all using Asgardian energy. It's the same power source. It doesn't take much.

Could Loki make as many duplicates of himself as he wants? If so, Doomsday could end up fighting a million Lokis

Now you're really stretching it. Has Loki ever made a million copies in the comics? A hundred? I'm going to say no. Then each one would be significantly weaker than the main Loki.

And third Loki is not all powerful and Loki is weaker on Earth. Doomsday is not.

Lastly, I'll state again...Doomsday routinely kills teams of heroes, some of whom are as powerful, and some who are more powerful than Loki. He has also killed hundreds of Green Lanterns at one time.

See this:



What do you see there? Doomsday took everything a Green Lantern, Superman, a fire chick, and Bloodwynd (who used magic), and it didn't phase him in the slightest.

Loki is one being who has a history of being beaten by beings less powerful than he is.

The God of Trickery is going to be shifty.

There is a difference in scheming and manipulating people, and performing in a fight. How is he going to be shifty against Doomsday when Darkseid and Superman's genius intellects failed to help them against Doomsday? Like Superman and Darkseid never think? Man. Doomsday has murdered millions of being in the DC universe. If only they could be shifty and cunning like Loki.

This is fun

To a point. You guys keep bringing up the same arguments now, and I've answered every one. At this point I think it's just Marvel bias and Thor fandom I'm dealing with instead of reasoned arguments. Loki is going to create one billion clones of himself and teleport Doomsday into the sun to win. Cause he routinely does that in the comics. Well dang it. I guess I'm boned then. Now we know who to pick against Thor next season.

[Thrawn]

Thrawn, you keep saying Doomsday is stronger than Hulk like it's an established fact.

It depends on which version of the Hulk we're talking about. I did say Doomsday is more powerful than the Hulk because he evolves past what hurts him. That's a fact. He actually becomes immune to his weaknesses, while the Hulk just heals.

I feel like Hulk and Doomsday would be pretty fairly matched.

I agree.

So then the fact that Hulk beat wussified Loki really doesn't mean anything, right?

It's Marvel canon. Extrapolate that. The Hulk is far more powerful today than he was then, and so is Loki. The dynamics haven't changed. Hulk beat Loki then, he could do it today. So can Doomsday.

I think that 1). Loki is more powerful than the Radiant and 2).

I agree.

Loki has more versatile magic/power at his disposal than the Radiant.

I agree.

And just because Doomsday has faced the Radiant and evolved past him doesn't mean that type of attack can't hurt him.

Wrong. That attack would never work again.

then Waverider was able to hurt Doomsday with his energy attacks.

Different type of energy and more powerful. Doomsday evolved past it in minutes.

Loki has countless magics/spells/tricks at his disposal.

All use the same energy source. And what tricks? You need an instant win against Doomsday or you lose. He evolves too fast. You don't confuse Doomsday. He's too fast and focused. Other than instant kills (Imperiex who was omnipotent), and phyical attacks, you can't beat Doomsday with the kind of trick Loki has.

If Waverider's attacks were different enough from the Radiant's to hurt Doomsday,

You're making my case for me right there. The first attack hurt Doomsday. It didn't and couldn't defeat him. Minutes later he was immune. What makes you think Loki is any different?

I figure Loki's attacks are different and more varied enough from Doomsday's previous opponents' to put him down.

How is he going to put him down exactly? I keep getting vague arguments like that. We know for a fact Loki can be put down with a simple beat down. Doomsday is more than capable of delivering that.

Different spells still use the same energy source and Doomsday is simply too tough to be put down by a few spells. That's now how the character works. See this:

Weaknesses

Any weakness Doomsday has that is used against him could no longer be considered a weakness, as he could adapt to it.

None of Loki's spells are powerful enough to outright kill Doomsday. And if you don't outright kill him with something, he becomes immune to it. End of story.

I'll refute the intangibility argument one more time:

Doomsday has also developed weapons and abilities that counters the powers of an opponent. He managed to cancel out the pure-energy Radiant by slamming into him; to greatly extend his claws and develop a poison to strike Superman in flight and reel him in;[13] or breathe flames against the fire-sensitive Martian Manhunter, and apparently neutralize his defensive phase-shifting power

Alright there you go. Not only will Loki turning himself intangible not save him, because Doomsday can cancel it out), Loki attempting to turn Doomsday intangible will not work because he can and will simply adapt to it.

Doomsday now adapts nearly instantly to threats.

[butters911]

Doomsday sounds a lot like Freak, with the ability to evolve past anything and what not. That should be a fight club match. Freak vs Doomsday in a who could evolve past being able to die first match

[Thrawn]

Doomsday sounds a lot like Freak, with the ability to evolve past anything and what not. That should be a fight club match. Freak vs Doomsday in a who could evolve past being able to die first match

Is that the OMD/BND drug addict guy? If so I suggested that match when Fight Club first started last year.

[tnr105]

Loki is no different. Loki is no where near the strongest Asgardian.

Uh, yeah, he kinda is.

Loki, without the aid of anything, through his own biology, possesses superhuman strength that is substantially superior to that of an average Asgardian female or male.

Loki CAN take what ever beating he gets.

His magical energies are so imbued into his body that he can reattach severed limbs and, while still a male, even reattached his own head at least once.

He can MAKE himself more powerful than Doomsday.

However, much like his physical strength and durability, Loki can temporarily augment his stamina through magical means.

Loki is only starts to fatigue around 24 hours, and the fight would be long over by then. Just cause Doomsday adapts doesn't mean it happens instantly. It has taken him years to come back, and Loki could use his abilities to match Doomsday, then rip him apart by the molecule. Loki could use his wits to discover a weakness of Doomsday's and kill him. Doomsday would come back later immune to the same attack, but that doesn't matter as it's only one match.

Doomsday has been severely watered down until the recent Reign of Doomsday. Though he initially got his ass handed to him, Darkseid HAS defeated Doomsday, and with the help of Lex Luthor, has created numerous clones that were dispatched during the Supergirl arch.

[butters911]

Doomsday sounds a lot like Freak, with the ability to evolve past anything and what not. That should be a fight club match. Freak vs Doomsday in a who could evolve past being able to die first match

Is that the OMD/BND drug addict guy? If so I suggested that match when Fight Club first started last year.

Yeah thats the guy. damn you beat me to it

[FSUSpiderFan]

Ok Thrawn, I made you work for it enough. I still think Loki would have a chance but it's more likely he gets smashed by Doomsday.

[CrazyChris]

Some recurring points...

Loki vs. 100 Green Lanterns: Loki would be disadvantaged on physical power, but I actually think he would be a challenging opponent nonetheless. The more opponents, the more people he has to play against each other using trickery.

Superman and Darkseid are geniuses and Doomsday beat them: Superman is a genius, but he's not exactly a master of trickery. I guess disguising himself with a pair of glasses is pretty tricky, but literally everything Loki does is shrouded in multiple layers of lies. Superman stands for TRUTH, justice, all that stuff, so he isn't wielding deception as well. What Superman is to strength, Loki is to deception. Darkseid doesn't strike me as a deceptive snake so much as a brutal totalitarian warlord. He's a different kind of villain with a different kind of intelligence. So I think these characters aren't quite intelligent in the particular way that Loki is intelligent.

Doomsday is way more powerful than the Hulk: The Hulk gets stronger the madder he gets with no definite upper limit. If he fought Doomsday then they would both keep getting stronger and the question would be whether Hulks anger or Doomsday's evolution rises faster.

Intangibility: I buy your negation of that argument, Thrawn.

However, it's meant to be an example of the kind of thing that Loki can do, not the be-all-end-all of Loki's chances in this fight. Thrawn, I see you're getting frustrated with statements along the lines of "Loki could figure out some way to turn this fight to his advantage" and are demanding specifics. The thing is, though, is that none of us are gods of mischief, so how could we come up with the specific tactics Loki would use in this fight? Loki would come up with something that none of us on this board could think of because none of us think like Loki.

At the end of the day, I would posit that Loki's abilities in deception and trickery are at least equal in magnitude to Doomsday's physical powers. When you are declared the god of something, it means you embody that thing to the fullest extent possible. So, really, the question is which matters more in a Fight Club scenario, brute power or trickery. One point in brute power's favor is that this is Fight Club, not trickiness club. At the end of the day, the winner is the one who overpowers his opponent. On the other hand, trickery lets you prevent your opponent from using his brute power effectively. On the other other hand, it sounds like Doomsday doesn't have much of a mind that Loki can get leverage over. From the way he's been described in this thread, he's more like a force of nature with only the dimmest consciousness guiding his actions. I don't know if that makes him less susceptible to trickery because he doesn't have much of a mind to toy with, or if it makes him more susceptible to trickery because he won't be able to think through Loki's tactics? I think that's the angle people need to argue from in order to get my vote.

Currently, my vote is with Loki. However, my vote is as much in the air as it was before I voted. I just can't change my vote to "no one" at this point, so it has to be somewhere.

[GeorgeEl]

Loki has more versatile magic/power at his disposal than the Radiant.

I agree.

And just because Doomsday has faced the Radiant and evolved past him doesn't mean that type of attack can't hurt him.

Wrong. That attack would never work again.

Correct me (again) if I'm wrong, but during their second fight, didn't the Radiant attack, stop, turn around thinking he'd won again, then get pummeled in the back by Doomsday? I tried to look it up myself, but couldn't find it. Anyways, what I'm getting at is Doomsday evolves to the point where he can't be killed by the same attack twice, but it seems like a powerful attack can stun him twice. So, what I'm thinking is Loki can cast one spell, see that that only stuns Doomsday, throw another spell, then another, and another until one works. I'm not that familiar with Loki, so I can't name his spells or anything, and Like CrazyChris said, I don't have Loki's mind, but if we establish that Loki's attacks are more varied than the Radiant's and that there is enough difference between Radiant's pure energy attacks and Waverider's energy attacks to make a difference, then Loki's multifaceted attacks can do damage. For example, I feel like Loki can create fire spells at least as powerful as Waverider's attacks, energy spells like the Radiant's, magic spells like Doc Strange, lasers like Darkseid... and that all these various attacks can at least stun Doomsday until one of them works. I feel like the god of mischief is different enough from anyone Doomsday has previously faced that, if given the time, he will throw out an attack powerful enough and new enough to put Doomsday down.

None of Loki's spells are powerful enough to outright kill Doomsday. And if you don't outright kill him with something, he becomes immune to it. End of story.

I don't think the story ends here. If he keeps throwing out different attacks that each hurt him, that's like throwing punches that hurt and tire him. For example, the Omega blast slowed him down for a few seconds. IF Darkseid could have attacked him more, a different way, that would have slowed him down more. To me, that's the big difference between Superman's fight and everyone else's fight: Superman kept attacking and eventually Doomsday got tired and the aggregate affects of all the attacks put him down. I think as he was throwing his last punch, Superman recognized this was all they both had to give; he recognized Doomsday was spent at that point. Doomsday can be beaten with enough attacks, no single attack will put him down.
All that said, I buy your intangibility argument, and with that out of the picture for Loki, he will have a hard time avoiding Doomsday. And the fight cannot go too long, because Loki can't dodge very long. He can't even hover above Doomsday because of his leaping ability. I think they each have a 50-50 chance of landing the first hit. I know Doomsday will be able to take that first hit, and I think Loki can take it. If Loki recognizes Doomsday's speed and avoids being hit by him while throwing varied, powerful attacks, then I think Loki takes it. Because I think Loki, the god of mischief, would do all that, I'm 51% convinced he'll win.

[Thrawn]

Loki vs. 100 Green Lanterns: Loki would be disadvantaged on physical power, but I actually think he would be a challenging opponent nonetheless. The more opponents, the more people he has to play against each other using trickery.

That's my point though. Yeah, Loki is challenging. But there's no way in comicdom he could actually defeat hundreds of Green Lanterns at the same time. Doomsday did. Yes Loki is cunning. Green Lanterns aren't stupid. Yet Doomsday still beat them.

It's not about whether one of these guys could challenge the other. I know they can. But...Doomsday will win in the end. In a straight up physical fight Doomsday can not lose to Loki. That's not Loki's forte. Loki has no one here to manipulate.

Illusions and all that bullshit won't work. Doomsday has murdered millions of powerful and intelligent beings in the DCU. If he could be defeated by something as simple as tricks don't you think somebody would have done it by now? Keep in mind Loki can't teleport Doomsday out of the arena for this match, nor can either character leave it.

Darkseid doesn't strike me as a deceptive snake so much as a brutal totalitarian warlord.

He can be. Darkseid is a planner and schemer as well. Even though that may not be the first thing we think of when you think of Darkseid.

So I think these characters aren't quite intelligent in the particular way that Loki is intelligent.

It's irrelevant. Riddler is good at riddles, Joker is good at practical jokes and traps, Penguin is a brilliant business man. All three of those guys are highly intelligent in different areas. Batman still defeats them all.

It doesn't matter if Loki is a better schemer than Darkseid. That can't help you against Doomsday. To win this match Loki has to put Doomsday down. He can't bury him in the Earth, Doomsday would just break out. He can't send him out of the arena, that's against the rules. He can't physically defeat Doomsday. And Loki doesn't possess any magic strong enough to kill him instantly.

Hurt him? Maybe. Hit him more than once? Okay. But if it doesn't kill him, then Loki has lost. You can not hit him several times without him becoming immune. Once that happens Loki has no way to defeat Doomsday.

None. No amount of tricks will help him win. It doesn't matter how smart he is.

Doomsday is way more powerful than the Hulk: The Hulk gets stronger the madder he gets with no definite upper limit. If he fought Doomsday then they would both keep getting stronger and the question would be whether Hulks anger or Doomsday's evolution rises faster.

That is the question. On this board I have no doubt Hulk would win the vote. After seeing some of what World War Hulk was capable of, I'd probably vote for him as well. I'm not sure though. Doomsday has this new ability that's been toyed with called absorption cells that might very well evolve to allow him to absorb the Hulk's gamma radiation. I'm not sure.

Thrawn, I see you're getting frustrated with statements along the lines of "Loki could figure out some way to turn this fight to his advantage" and are demanding specifics. The thing is, though, is that none of us are gods of mischief, so how could we come up with the specific tactics Loki would use in this fight? Loki would come up with something that none of us on this board could think of because none of us think like Loki.

That crap is frustrating because it's clearly a stretch. Particular under this specific scenario.

Cause that's what you're telling me. "I don't know how Loki could win, or what he could do, but I think he might be able to do something super smart." I'm hearing vague assertions to my concrete arguments, even after it's been established in the comics that the Hulk has bested Loki. The Hulk does not have Doomsday ability to become immune to Loki's attacks. Darkseid is one of the most powerful being in the DCU. He's a new god. He's more powerful than a lot of the Marvel U. I'd say he's easily more powerful than Loki. He's not stupid. He was defeated by Doomsday.

And unlike Loki, Darkseid can very much be a physical character.

This is from Loki's own wiki:

His passionate hatred of Thor, lust for power, and his tendency to alienate himself through his ignoble actions greatly impedes his ability to bring his well laid plans to fruition.

Loki for all his cunning and intelligence, often has his plans go awry. His cunning is not the be all end all.

So, really, the question is which matters more in a Fight Club scenario, brute power or trickery. One point in brute power's favor is that this is Fight Club, not trickiness club. At the end of the day, the winner is the one who overpowers his opponent.

THANK YOU. That's what I've been saying all along. Loki doesn't have the sheer power necessary to overcome Doomsday in a fight and Doomsday, no matter what spells or tricks Loki throws at him will either not be harmed by them, or simply evolve past them.

On the other hand, trickery lets you prevent your opponent from using his brute power effectively.

Who cares if Doomsday sees an illusion and get's tricked into falling down onto a tree stump? Whether he can be tricked or not, and I'm not hearing how, his healing factor and his ability to evolve beyond magic and energy spells are intact. Loki can trick him all he wants. Those trick won't and can't put him down. And Loki may know a thousand spells, but they all use the same energy source, and after a dozen or so, Doomsday becomes immune to them all.

Of course all that's assuming Loki can get more than two or three off before Doomsday in on top of him beating in senseless.

On the other other hand, it sounds like Doomsday doesn't have much of a mind that Loki can get leverage over. From the way he's been described in this thread, he's more like a force of nature with only the dimmest consciousness guiding his actions

That's mostly correct. He's a force of nature. For Fight Club we go with the most iconic version of each character. Doomsday has very limited speech, some sense of who he's fighting, and the evolved ability to 'sense' threats. Loki can make illusions and phantoms, but Doomsday will sense whether they are a threat to him or not, and zero in on Loki.

I don't know if that makes him less susceptible to trickery because he doesn't have much of a mind to toy with, or if it makes him more susceptible to trickery because he won't be able to think through Loki's tactics?

It makes him less. Doomsday doesn't care. He knows whether something is a threat to him or not. It's part of his being. He is driven to kill anything that's a threat to him. Loki would qualify. Doomsday's evolutionary sense let's him zero in on threats. And in this instance, it's even more pronounced because Loki and Doomsday are the only two beings in this matchup.

And again, what tactics? What tricks?

Physical alteration of the environment? Utterly pointless. Nothing in the environment can hurt Doomsday. Not lava, not space, no tricks.

Illusions? They are not physical threats, Doomsday know to ignore them due to his 'threat sense'.

Lets' say Loki makes a phantom that can use intangibility attacks. Common rule of magic is that phantoms, and duplicates are weaker than the original. Secondly, Doomsday has dealt with intangibility attacks in the past, so he's evolved beyond them. Let me be kind and say he hasn't evolved past Loki's particular intangibility attacks. He'll just heal up from them and then become immune.

He was weak to the Radiant's attacks and it took a week for that battle to end. Doomsday has since begun evolving faster and adapting quicker to threats:

His powers also allowed him to extend his claws to strike while Superman was in flight and reel him in while slowly poisoning him in the aforementioned Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey or breathe flames against the Martian Manhunter in Superman #175.Doomsday now adapts nearly instantly to threats.

That includes Loki because Doomsday can and has shown the ability to adapt to magic.

Correct me (again) if I'm wrong, but during their second fight, didn't the Radiant attack, stop, turn around thinking he'd won again, then get pummeled in the back by Doomsday?

No. I've got the issue in front of me right now. Radiant blasted Doomsday with everything he had, and Doomsday leapt up into the air in his face and sliced him clean in half.

Anyways, what I'm getting at is Doomsday evolves to the point where he can't be killed by the same attack twice, but it seems like a powerful attack can stun him twice.

That once again proves the point I've been making all along. Stunning Doomsday doesn't stop him.

So, what I'm thinking is Loki can cast one spell, see that that only stuns Doomsday, throw another spell, then another, and another until one works.

That actually would have the opposite effect. After the Radiant killed him, Doomsday adapted to deal with energy type attacks much more thoroughly. The scenario you laid out, would work against Loki. Each failed spell by Loki, exposes Doomsday to Loki's magic and Doomsday begins to adapt to it. Rapidly. See this:

Doomsday now adapts nearly instantly to threats.

After a few spells, it doesn't matter what type of spell it is. They all use the same energy source which is what Doomsday would be adapting to. The more Loki attacks, the smaller his chances become to win. And that means he loses. Doomsday can and will be attacking him nonstop.

Loki can't hide or run in Fight Club.

Like CrazyChris said, I don't have Loki's mind, but if we establish that Loki's attacks are more varied than the Radiant's and that there is enough difference between Radiant's pure energy attacks and Waverider's energy attacks to make a difference, then Loki's multifaceted attacks can do damage.

There's a key difference. Waverider and Radiant were different forms of energy. All of Loki's spells use the same energy source, or magic. None of those spells would be able to kill Doomsday instantly.

And what pray tell is Doomsday doing while Loki is blasting him with magic? Standing there taking it in this ideal Loki scenario? Hm?

I'll repost this for a third time:



Doomsday doesn't stand still. He charges at you quicker than you can see. Loki can't take nearly as much of a pounding as Thor. Doomsday can easily destroy Loki physically. He has the speed, the agility, and the quickness to do it. He's much quicker than the Hulk.

Loki will have to aim and hit Doomsday with his spells and all the while Doomsday is on top of Loki. He's insanely fast. Loki can't keep Doomsday away.

For example, I feel like Loki can create fire spells at least as powerful as Waverider's attacks, energy spells like the Radiant's, magic spells like Doc Strange, lasers like Darkseid... and that all these various attacks can at least stun Doomsday until one of them works.

Stunning Doomsday doesn't let Loki win this match, and every bit of magic that lands on Doomsday means he adapts quicker.

I feel like the god of mischief is different enough from anyone Doomsday has previously faced that, if given the time, he will throw out an attack powerful enough and new enough to put Doomsday down.

If Loki possessed a single spell powerful enough to take out Doomsday with one hit, he'd never have had as much trouble as he has with Hulk and Thor.

That argument just doesn't have anything reason or logic to back it up with looking at every Loki and Doomsday story in print. It's wishful thinking.

I don't think the story ends here. If he keeps throwing out different attacks that each hurt him, that's like throwing punches that hurt and tire him.

Except, unlike physical attacks, Doomsday adapts to energy attacks.

To me, that's the big difference between Superman's fight and everyone else's fight: Superman kept attacking and eventually Doomsday got tired and the aggregate affects of all the attacks put him down. I think as he was throwing his last punch, Superman recognized this was all they both had to give; he recognized Doomsday was spent at that point. Doomsday can be beaten with enough attacks, no single attack will put him down.

Every attack Superman hit him with was sheer blunt force trauma. Doomsday can't evolve past sheer physical damage. He comes back stronger to deal with that kind of damage. Loki doesn't have the strength to go to go toe to toe with Doomsday. That's why Superman was able to defeat him, and that's why your example doesn't' work for Loki.

He can't even hover above Doomsday because of his leaping ability.

Doomsday has also been known to throw objects at opponents. And he's too fast for Loki to dodge anyway.

I know Doomsday will be able to take that first hit, and I think Loki can take it. I

The problem with that is once Doomsday gets his hand on you, it's over. Do you think if the Hulk intended to kill Loki and got his hands on him, and started pounding him multiple times with the intent to kill that Loki would be able to escape and rebound? He couldn't. Exact same scenario here.

If Loki recognizes Doomsday's speed and avoids being hit by him while throwing varied, powerful attacks, then I think Loki takes it.

Loki can't avoid Doomsday. You just said so yourself:

All that said, I buy your intangibility argument, and with that out of the picture for Loki, he will have a hard time avoiding Doomsday. And the fight cannot go too long, because Loki can't dodge very long. He can't even hover above Doomsday because of his leaping ability.

Because I think Loki, the god of mischief, would do all that, I'm 51% convinced he'll win.

The god of mischief is about manipulation, scheming, and maneuvering his opponents. Grand schemes and plans. Not a physical fight. He's still formidable, that's why I'd put this fight at 46% in his favor. This is not Loki's kind of contest, and Doomsday is not the kind of opponent Loki wins against in this type of match.

And again, Loki is weaker on Earth.

[Thrawn]

Just to cover this one more time:

CrazyChris wrote:

At the end of the day, I would posit that Loki's abilities in deception and trickery are at least equal in magnitude to Doomsday's physical powers.

I agree with that assertion. However, for this fight it's irrelevant. Trickery and cunning will not allow him to defeat Doomsday in Fight Club when an opponent has to be put down physically. His cunning and trickery may allow him to survive longer in this match, but just surviving doesn't let him defeat Doomsday when he's entirely focused on defeating you like opponents are in Fight Club. And Loki doesn't have the ability to avoid Doomsday in this match. They can't leave the arena, Loki can't hover because Doomsday is accurate with thrown items, and he can leap. Doomsday can handle intangibility spells and powers.

Loki possesses no magic spell powerful enough to instantly kill Hulk or Thor in the comics. And he has no access to magic artifacts or sword here either. Loki's cunning doesn't allow him to win under the specific conditions of this fight against Doomsday. If he had time and resources to study Doomsday, sure. But he doesn't here. They are meeting for the first time, and that absolutely favors Doomsday. The Asgardians have their hands full dealing with the Hulk, and he can't adapt to their powers like Doomsday can.

Most characters are smarter than the Hulk in the marvel universe. And you know what? That doesn't stop the Hulk from beating the snot out of them either. Intelligence has its place in fights, but there's a point when sheer power and brute force top it. That is the case with Doomsday.

Loki > Thing (plain brawling won't help you)

Loki > Juggernaut (because he could trick him)

Loki = Hulk (Limited intelligence but sheer power render subtlety lost on the Hulk)

Loki < Doomsday (similar to the Hulk but he adapts and becomes immune to magic and other attacks)

And unlike the Hulk who is fine if you leave him alone, Doomsday is driven to kill all threats.

[AmFan15]

I was hesitant at first, then eventually voted for Doomsday. I was still unsure of it, however, until I read this:

Loki's powers are believed to at least be slightly weaker on Midgard than on Asgard, as his birth was not of Gaea, and even Odin's magic was on the wane on Earth.

Loki would need to be at his utmost peak performance to stand a chance against Doomsday, and this proves that he will not be at that level in this fight.

Congratulations, Thrawn...I am now positive about my vote.

[CrazyChris]

Thrawn, why do I feel like we were both making the exact opposite arguments in the Cartman/Nelson fight?

I think you've done your job and swayed me over to Doomsday. If this were Superman vs. Loki, I'd go with Superman. And who killed Superman?