Friendly Fire Fight Club #27 - 'Machine vs. MONSTER!'

[CrazyChris]

George's best point is that Data would know of Dracula's many well-documented weaknesses because of Data's vast knowledge of Earth literature. Dracula, on the other hand, would know nothing about Data.

I don't want to sell Dracula short, though. He's not going to be easily caught off guard, and after the fight goes on for a while he'll get a good sense of Data's capabilities. I give Dracula enough credit to say he won't be taken out by one phaser shot, and once he sees a wall get vaporized he'll know what he's dealing with and adjust his strategy accordingly. Dracula's powers also make him better able to move through the shadowy nooks and crannies of the hospital, be it in animal form or mist form. Can Data do much more than lumber around while Dracula pounces from the shadows and takes him apart piece by piece with hit and run tactics?

This is a very interesting fight. Good job to George for such a creative counter to Dracula. I need to hear more arguments on this.

[George Berryman]

George's best point is that Data would know of Dracula's many well-documented weaknesses because of Data's vast knowledge of Earth literature. Dracula, on the other hand, would know nothing about Data.

This.

I don't want to sell Dracula short, though. He's not going to be easily caught off guard, and after the fight goes on for a while he'll get a good sense of Data's capabilities. I give Dracula enough credit to say he won't be taken out by one phaser shot, and once he sees a wall get vaporized he'll know what he's dealing with and adjust his strategy accordingly.

Data's mind works at 60 trillion operations per second. His positronic brain and android hearing also allow him to detect several hundred distinct sound patterns at any given time, giving him better hearing than a dog. That, plus his tricorder which can scan and track data across a wide variety of information (including, for instance, thermal anomalies, energy patterns, organic/inorganic materials and their chemical/mineral compositions) gives him a damn good chance at being able to track Dracula. Yes, even in his mist form.

Dracula's powers also make him better able to move through the shadowy nooks and crannies of the hospital, be it in animal form or mist form. Can Data do much more than lumber around while Dracula pounces from the shadows and takes him apart piece by piece with hit and run tactics?

Data also moves and reacts quickly (again I point to a Starfleet robotics engineer saying Data's hands moved so fast that he couldn't see them) and that gives him more than enough of a chance to nail Dracula with a phaser.

This is a very interesting fight. Good job to George for such a creative counter to Dracula.

I like to think "outside the box."

[AmFan15]

George's best point is that Data would know of Dracula's many well-documented weaknesses because of Data's vast knowledge of Earth literature. Dracula, on the other hand, would know nothing about Data.

This.

He knows that he is inhuman, and that he stands in Dracula's way...that's all he NEEDS to know!

I don't want to sell Dracula short, though. He's not going to be easily caught off guard, and after the fight goes on for a while he'll get a good sense of Data's capabilities. I give Dracula enough credit to say he won't be taken out by one phaser shot, and once he sees a wall get vaporized he'll know what he's dealing with and adjust his strategy accordingly.

Data's mind works at 60 trillion operations per second. His positronic brain and android hearing also allow him to detect several hundred distinct sound patterns at any given time, giving him better hearing than a dog. That, plus his tricorder which can scan and track data across a wide variety of information (including, for instance, thermal anomalies, energy patterns, organic/inorganic materials and their chemical/mineral compositions) gives him a damn good chance at being able to track Dracula. Yes, even in his mist form.

How's his enhanced hearing going to help him when Dracula commands ALL of the nocturnal animals in the area (Crickets, owls, wolves, etc.) to swarm? Think about it: over a cacophony of squeaks, hoots, howls, and growls, he's going to hear Dracula? He doesn't need to breathe! He has no heartbeat!
He can also command the weather, including mist and fog. He clouds the area, and vanishes into the mist. I think even the tricorder could have trouble sorting THAT out!

Dracula's powers also make him better able to move through the shadowy nooks and crannies of the hospital, be it in animal form or mist form. Can Data do much more than lumber around while Dracula pounces from the shadows and takes him apart piece by piece with hit and run tactics?

Data also moves and reacts quickly (again I point to a Starfleet robotics engineer saying Data's hands moved so fast that he couldn't see them) and that gives him more than enough of a chance to nail Dracula with a phaser.

Methinks that robotics engineer needs to get his glasses checked.

This is a very interesting fight. Good job to George for such a creative counter to Dracula.

I like to think "outside the box."

Well, at the end of the day, Data's going to have to be put into a box...Possibly SEVERAL once Dracula's through with him!

[George Berryman]

He knows that he is inhuman, and that he stands in Dracula's way...that's all he NEEDS to know! How's his enhanced hearing going to help him when Dracula commands ALL of the nocturnal animals in the area (Crickets, owls, wolves, etc.) to swarm? Think about it: over a cacophony of squeaks, hoots, howls, and growls, he's going to hear Dracula?

Data can limit the sources of sound he hears. That's canon. Onboard the ship he generally limits it to 10 sounds. He is capable of several hundred. He can block out what he wants and hear what he wants.

The idea that Dracula doesn't make any sound at all when he moves - nor his clothes, nor his feet upon the hard Waverly Hills floors - is absurd. Even without sound Data would be able to track Dracula with the tricorder. Even on a thermal level Dracula's undead body would be reading as a cold spot on the tricorder. That's not even getting into the physical make-up of his body or his mist form.

He can also command the weather, including mist and fog. He clouds the area, and vanishes into the mist. I think even the tricorder could have trouble sorting THAT out!

And you'd be very wrong about the tricorder's capabilities.

Methinks that robotics engineer needs to get his glasses checked. Well, at the end of the day, Data's going to have to be put into a box...Possibly SEVERAL once Dracula's through with him!

Hyperbolize as you will - none of that refutes the points I made earlier.

[CrazyChris]

I don't think Dracula would read as a cold spot on a thermal scan. His body should be room temperature, the same as his surroundings. He would be invisible on the thermal spectrum. If Data is going to see him, I think it would have to be with some other Tricorder function. In popular culture, Dracula is generally invisible to artificial means of capturing his image. He has no reflection, doesn't show up on film, and etc. This is a speculative point because the novel doesn't and couldn't have addressed whether Dracula would show up on a Tricorder scan, but it makes me hesitant to emphasize Data's superhuman visual capabilities.

[AmFan15]

In popular culture, Dracula is generally invisible to artificial means of capturing his image. He has no reflection, doesn't show up on film, and etc. This is a speculative point because the novel doesn't and couldn't have addressed whether Dracula would show up on a Tricorder scan, but it makes me hesitant to emphasize Data's superhuman visual capabilities.

Thanks, CrazyChris! I nearly missed that!

[George Berryman]

I don't think Dracula would read as a cold spot on a thermal scan. His body should be room temperature, the same as his surroundings. He would be invisible on the thermal spectrum. If Data is going to see him, I think it would have to be with some other Tricorder function. In popular culture, Dracula is generally invisible to artificial means of capturing his image. He has no reflection, doesn't show up on film, and etc. This is a speculative point because the novel doesn't and couldn't have addressed whether Dracula would show up on a Tricorder scan, but it makes me hesitant to emphasize Data's superhuman visual capabilities.

Does the novel mention he doesn't show up on film? I can't remember. The tricorder's not a mirror or film.

Either way Dracula is made up of physical matter. When he becomes mist, that mist has a chemical make-up and/or energy output - probably both. Data could track him having the tricorder scan for moving, dead organic tissue. The tricorder could track him by the leather of his footwear. Hell it could track him by the vibrations in the floor or walls when he moves.

[CrazyChris]

I'd agree with all those points, but the main thing holding me back is that Dracula is a supernatural being, so who knows what "energy output" and so on he would have? I haven't read the novel, so everything I know about Dracula comes from popular culture. Pop culture depicts him as supernaturally silent and cloaked in shadows. Does the novel ever demonstrate that someone can perceive him when he's actively trying not to be perceived?

[AmFan15]

I don't think Dracula would read as a cold spot on a thermal scan. His body should be room temperature, the same as his surroundings. He would be invisible on the thermal spectrum. If Data is going to see him, I think it would have to be with some other Tricorder function. In popular culture, Dracula is generally invisible to artificial means of capturing his image. He has no reflection, doesn't show up on film, and etc. This is a speculative point because the novel doesn't and couldn't have addressed whether Dracula would show up on a Tricorder scan, but it makes me hesitant to emphasize Data's superhuman visual capabilities.

Does the novel mention he doesn't show up on film? I can't remember. The tricorder's not a mirror or film.

Either way Dracula is made up of physical matter. When he becomes mist, that mist has a chemical make-up and/or energy output - probably both. Data could track him having the tricorder scan for moving, dead organic tissue. The tricorder could track him by the leather of his footwear. Hell it could track him by the vibrations in the floor or walls when he moves.

But NOT if he changes into mist, in a fog enshrouded area! Dracula is practically the DEFINITION of inorganic: He has no heartbeat, does not breathe, and hasn't technically LIVED in a VERY long time. He won't show up on Data's precious tricorder, and Data won't be able to hear him, until it's too late.

[George Berryman]

I'd agree with all those points, but the main thing holding me back is that Dracula is a supernatural being, so who knows what "energy output" and so on he would have? I haven't read the novel, so everything I know about Dracula comes from popular culture. Pop culture depicts him as supernaturally silent and cloaked in shadows. Does the novel ever demonstrate that someone can perceive him when he's actively trying not to be perceived?

Not that I know of. But the novel was before the time of Type II Phasers, androids or tricorders - it's the very reason I went tech here instead of trying to send someone mortal after him, even Van Helsing (which would be unoriginal and gauche) or Buffy (which would have been flawed).

[CrazyChris]

I don't think Dracula would read as a cold spot on a thermal scan. His body should be room temperature, the same as his surroundings. He would be invisible on the thermal spectrum. If Data is going to see him, I think it would have to be with some other Tricorder function. In popular culture, Dracula is generally invisible to artificial means of capturing his image. He has no reflection, doesn't show up on film, and etc. This is a speculative point because the novel doesn't and couldn't have addressed whether Dracula would show up on a Tricorder scan, but it makes me hesitant to emphasize Data's superhuman visual capabilities.

Does the novel mention he doesn't show up on film? I can't remember. The tricorder's not a mirror or film.

Either way Dracula is made up of physical matter. When he becomes mist, that mist has a chemical make-up and/or energy output - probably both. Data could track him having the tricorder scan for moving, dead organic tissue. The tricorder could track him by the leather of his footwear. Hell it could track him by the vibrations in the floor or walls when he moves.

But NOT if he changes into mist, in a fog enshrouded area! Dracula is practically the DEFINITION of inorganic: He has no heartbeat, does not breathe, and hasn't technically LIVED in a VERY long time. He won't show up on Data's precious tricorder, and Data won't be able to hear him, until it's too late.

Organic matter doesn't necessarily have to be alive to be deemed chemically organic. It's the chemical composition of the molecules that makes matter organic. A dead body is just as organic as a living one. But, like I said, who knows how Dracula would read on a scanner after centuries of supernatural animation? This is a really tough call for me. I haven't voted yet.

[George Berryman]

But NOT if he changes into mist, in a fog enshrouded area! Dracula is practically the DEFINITION of inorganic: He has no heartbeat, does not breathe, and hasn't technically LIVED in a VERY long time. He won't show up on Data's precious tricorder, and Data won't be able to hear him, until it's too late.

Dracula's body is dead organic tissue. When he became undead he didn't turn into diamonds or something inorganic. He is made up of physical matter (it's organic and dead but even if it was inorganic your point would be moot) and that physical matter can most definitely be tracked by a tricorder.

EDIT: And if Van Helsing and his bunch would have had a tricorder Dracula would've been defeated in England.

[Peter Palmer]

Does the novel mention he doesn't show up on film? I can't remember.

It didn't make it into the actual novel, but according to Stoker's working notes, Dracula's image was hazy/blurry in photographs.

[AmFan15]

I think what I'm learning from this debate is that it's not really Data that Dracula has to worry about, it's that damned tricorder. Without it, Data can't hear him, track him, or defeat him.
...And if I can figure that out, so can Dracula! I'm sure he can find SOME way to eliminate that particular advantage!

(Unfortunately, I have to go to work, and won't be back before this poll is over , but if anyone else can add to this, by all means, run with it!)

[stillanerd]

Here's something else to consider: if folks are thinking that Dracula would be caught off guard by what Data is, there's something they may not be taking into account. Dracula, like all vampires, crave fresh human blood, which means they would obviously have sharp enough senses, like most predators, in hunting their prey. Therefore, I would contend that Dracula would know instantly that Data is not human simply because he wouldn't smell any fresh, warm blood from Data whatsoever.

Also, with regards to Data's type II phaser, it's not as if it's attached to Data's hand. It's very possible that Dracula could summon is swarm of bats and hordes of rats and what have you to knock it out of Data's hand during the fight.