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Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

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Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Kevin Cushing » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:00 pm

There you have it, folks - One in a Million. And the game has officially changed. So what did you think? What do you think?

Also, this issue marks our final game of "Name That Homage!" Though this cover is by far the most difficult of all. Which Clone Saga cover did we reference for this one, guys? Believe it or not (I sure didn't) Spideydude already got it. Can anyone else? It's very subtle.

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And, of course, if you haven't read the issue yet - go now lest ye be spoiled! Seriously, this isn't one you want to hear about before reading.

Finally, if you've already read the issue (seriously, read the issue first!) head over to Spideydude.com to see Hambone and bdog's full color cover for Crawl Space #12!
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Spideydude » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:11 pm

If anyone else gets the homage, they win the internets.

Now, as you can plainly see, I've started writing this 5 moments after the issue hit. Because, well, I already read the issue. Kevin was nice enough to send it my way via email as a early christmas/birthday/awesomegoldstar day present.

Now, onto the Spoilers.
Ben is Back. Fuck me running is that awesome, in an intellgent, thoughtful way, Ben is referenced and then brought back. With this issue, we're seeing the supporting cast expand, and a huge member that hasn't been seen since 1998 is back. God dang am I happy. Another thing I loved was Harry Cloned himself and did it TOO well. We have two Harry Osborn's running around, and a potential Evil Ben Reilly. Or something. A great plan for Harry, and an even better way to do a short, sweet clone saga. Too bad I know that Peter will be back in his ol' union suit later on. (Course, there is that costume for Mayday later on!) Black Cat and Toxin were good, although Cat pretty well got beat up. I heard Chris Barnes yelling out "CAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!" when she went down. Harry is becoming better and better as each issue unfolds. And I can't wait to see those 8 EFFING COVERS.


Great work guys!
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Guyman442 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:25 pm

Holy. Crap. Oh my God. I can't believe I just read that. Consider my mind blown. I need time to process, I'll have better compliments later. But for now, that was incredible. Amazing... My God...
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Shadow116 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:28 pm

Here is my regular Crawl Space review:

So much to talk about, characters returned to life, a hard fought battle over, and a new one ready to begin soon. This was one helluva ride! Once again the character's voices all sounded just like them, and there wasn't too much dialogue in the heat of battle either, as I know sometimes writers just can't help but overload huge fight sequences with banter, definitely prefer the in the middle not too much, not too little banter you offer Kev.

Spidey also gets to cut loose on the mindless clones which is a display of why we should be just as afraid of Spidey being angry as Superman. Very chilling, and awesome. Also, Toxin is a riot, I just love the character, just as much as I did from what I've seen of his mini. Black Cat is once again the way I prefer her, I can just hear Tricia Helfer's banter with a Christopher Daniel Barnes Spidey it's so good.

I called the Harry thing in my first read through, so happy to see I get both ends of the spectrum with Harry, the one I prefer and the evil one [smilie=greengoblin.gif]. And the big twist at the end was awesome, definitely very interested to see what becomes of this Kevin.

Onto my grade, the action was fantastic, characters once again in character, the suspense was mounting, and I was at the edge of my seat. I know I must sound like a broken record by now Kev, but you've been on fire with this latest arc.

Final verdict: 5 out of 5 cosmic cubes [smilie=spidey_thumbs.gif]
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Enigma_2099 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:46 pm

God **** that was good.

TWO Harry Osborns... sonovabitch. And I call "Kaine" on number 3...
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby CrazyChris » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:53 pm

Here are my responses as they occur to me in real time, as I read the issue.

The cover: is it just me, or does the border of tiny spideys now look like a pack of peeping Toms? The one at the bottom center is spreading his arms wide, as if to say "BEHOLD: The ass cheeks of our giant master!" It's a good piece of art, though, as always! :mrgreen:

Panel 3: Harry, still with the handkerchief, grabs the Cosmic Cube from MJ’s hand as the desk begins to slide back.
HARRY CAP:
But I am not the Green Goblin anymore. I am better than that. Better than my father.


Interesting glimpse into Harry's mind, here. He kind of comes off as a rebellious teenager, telling himself that he's broken free from his parent's control, but in reality he's totally fixated and obsessed with his parental relationship, even after his father's death. There's something pathetic about how he's trying so hard to tell himself that he's overcome his father's shadow when he's actually more controled by it than ever.

HARRY CAP:
I promised myself I’d never even use any of his technology again. That was my old life.
But when I was down here before, I instinctively grabbed that pumpkin bomb.


I’m a little confused by this line. He’s saying he promised not to use Norman’s technology, but a second later he hops on a glider. Is he saying that when he became the Goblin King he didn’t want to use Norman’s tech because he’s stepped out of his shadow, but now he realizes that using his father’s stuff is part of who he is, his instinct, so why fight it? It could be a little more clear.

Panel 2: As Harry is flying through the air, another figure on a glider is coming up from his side, still too far away to make out in detail, but wearing black, purple, and red. Harry is looking over at him.
HARRY:
Oh who the hell is this now?

Panel 3: Close on the figure coming towards Harry. It is the Goblin King, flying fast and looking angry.


WHA???

TOXIN:
And second, you’re supposed to be asleep when I get ‘alone time’ with my wife!
TOXIN THOUGHT:
Don’t worry, buddy, your ‘alone time’ with Gina puts me right out.


That’s not creepy or anything...

Panel 1: Ext. Night. Close on the Goblin King, with the Cosmic Cube in one hand and a fireball in the other. There is fury on his face.


Can we get a fan artist on this, like, RIGHT NOW? This image would be kick ass to see.
GOBLIN KING CAP:
My name is Harry Osborn.
I am the son of Norman Osborn, the original Green Goblin.
He’s dead now – I cut his head off.


Two Harrys? This is getting really interesting.

GOBLIN KING CAP:
But I guess that’s the risk you take when you clone yourself.


I think that’s what I figured the explanation would be. The part earlier on that I was confused about makes a ton more sense now. He was saying he promised himself he wouldn’t use Norman’s tech because he wanted to start fresh from his days as the second Goblin, but using all the tech was still coming naturally to him. The Goblin King has nothing to do with it because this Harry doesn’t know about the Goblin King. The line where he said he was BETTER than his father was very clever because it leads the reader to assume he means he’s better because he’s the Goblin King, but that’s not what he meant at all. This is a totally different Harry who thinks he’s better because he’s trying to reform, or at least that’s what it seems like at this point.

SPIDER-MAN:
I don’t know if it’s gonna work, but I’ve got a better idea than just that.
And as much as I trust her, I don’t trust anybody but myself to try this when we probably only have one chance at it!


Peter Parker trusts himself? That’s a first.

Panel 1: The clone holding Black Cat from behind pulls back on her arms, snapping them.
SFX:
KRACK
BLACK CAT (burst):
AAAHHH!

Panel 2: That same clone lets her go, and she stumbles forward, with clones around her still punching and kicking her.

Panel 3: The clone behind Black Cat that just let her go is kicking her in the back, hard, on her upper spine.
SFX:
KRACK

Panel 4: The Black Cat is on the ground, and clones are kicking her all over.

Panel 5: Spider-Man is still fighting his way through the clones, almost to her. Clones are turning to dust all around him with their masks falling to the ground (as he’s pulled them off), and he’s punching the ones in front of him hard, still being held back by too many.
SPIDER-MAN (burst):
CAAAAAAT!

Panel 6: Small, completely blacked-out panel.


This sequence is damn intense. Right now I’m thinking this is the best issue you’ve written.

Panel 4: Tight shot of the Goblin King, utterly pissed off.
GOBLIN KING CAP:
I could kill you both. But if I kill my clone, all he’s accomplished goes down the drain. Even if he is doing far too good a job of earning Peter’s trust.


Right now I’m wondering why Harry needed a clone to earn Peter’s trust instead of just playing the part himself.

And that means…?

Panel 6: Close-up on Toxin’s face.
TOXIN:
I think the Goblin King may have created these things.


The reasoning that leads Toxin to this conclusion is pretty good. Toxin is a perceptive guy.

WHO HURT SEXY KITTY?!


How do we make this an internet meme?

Panel 5: Same as 1.
SPIDER-MAN:
Bring back Ben Reilly.


Whoa. That came out of nowhere. Let’s see where this goes...

HARRY:
Who the hell was that?


My thoughts exactly.

Fantastic work, man! As you can tell from this post, this one had me going back and forth pretty much through the whole issue. You really kept me guessing. Now, more than ever, I REALLY wish I could see this thing fully drawn. I know that’s not feasible, but someone HAS to draw the panel with GK holding the cube in one hand and a fireball in the other!
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Donomark » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:31 am

By far the most intriguing issue ever, I do however have to address something I didn't care for.

The inner monologue of Harry saying "My name is Harry Osborn. I am the Goblin King. My father is dead" and etc, I just thought that was too remniscent of Geoff Johns' style of writing. I know Johns is one of your all time favorite writers, but that's an aspect of his writing I never warmed to. The fact that he has every character he's writing virtually deliver the same inner monologue really bugs me because I can't seriousl imagine anyone thinking to themselves in that sort of expositionary manner. So to see it here with Harry really did take me out of the story, because I've not like that type of writing elsewhere.

And to clarify, it's not anything against Johns or you personally. But as a writing trope, I just do not see anybody thinking that way, let alone more than one person.

HOWEVER,
The clone of Harry really did set my world of reading asunder, as that was a helluva surprise. Ben's back, which is awesome and I seriously look forward to the return of the "Parker Bros." relationship.


The issue was also surprisingly violent, with Felicia getting her arms broken and her spine kicked at. Ouch! She's not gonna become an Oracle-type character, is she?

Overally, I have enjoyed previous issues better, but thats not to say this wasn't a good one among the rest. If I had to give an elitist, pretentious grade, it'd be 4/5. Stll have me eagerly awaiting the next one as always. [smilie=spidey_thumbs.gif]
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Venomaniac » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:02 pm

WOW!

DID NOT see Good Harry being a clone at ALL
My ONLY gripe this issue was Bad Harry's voice seemed off compared to the past.
Ben's back? A tinge out of left field but interesting

And How is Harry able to clone Ben? He would have to had acess to Ben and thus ben's memories and experiences (which makes him Ben Reilly after all)

The evil Ben Reilly... not sure what the point of the plan wouldn hgave been, but it's interesting to see what's up with this clone. Did Harry actually make him?

Once again WOW

5 out of 5


[smilie=spidey_caught.gif] That's you walking away with the awesome. You have officially became my 2nd favorite Spidey writer, right after JMD



EDIT:
Okay. I need to ask:

WHY Ben Reilly? I mean I like the character, (I LOVED the Lost Years) but if Peter csn bring ANYONE back...
Uncle Ben? That would be my first choice
Aunt May?
Gwen? (though I understand the problems that could arise now)'
Ned Leeds?
Jean DeWolff?

I'm really curious why you chose Ben Reilly compared to all those others. He wouldn't be MY first choice If I were Peter...
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Extreme Spider » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:02 pm

The Next Issue Is Gonna Be The Best Spider-Man Annual EVER!! I'm Guessing Kaine is That Clone At The End?
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby spidertour02 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:44 pm

I'm not going to lie, Kevin -- I didn't like it.

Don't get me wrong, it's technically well-written, and it has several moments that were eye-opening (like the beating that Felicia took). But I have to wonder about some of the plot elements ...

(1) The Cosmic Cube. Okay, I really don't care for these things. Spider-Man's world shouldn't have magical devices in them. Of all the things you could have used, why a Cosmic Cube? And, to make things worse, it's a cracked Cosmic Cube, so we can probably expect a lot of problems to ensue. Magical problems. UGH.
(2) Why Ben Reilly? Of all the characters that could be brought back, Ben is such a random choice. Honestly, it seems pretty illogical that Peter would bring him back when he has the power to return any other of his loved ones from death. I like Ben too, but c'mon.
(3) The number of "stunt cast" clones in this story is approaching Maximum Clonage levels. There's a Harry clone, another Peter clone (for the love of ...), and of course, Ben Reilly. I'm very apprehensive about it.
(4) The thing that you do best as a writer is to give us great character moments and interactions. As such, the lack of that in this issue is perplexing. Carlie and Flash are nowhere to be found, despite being a big part of the ongoing story. We barely get anything with Mary Jane, either.

This was a somewhat weak effort. I get what you're trying to do, and I'm looking forward to what you have planned for Ben (knowing that you're a fan of the character), but I wish you had found a better way to get there.
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby coolmvm » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:38 pm

Wow full of twist this story has. :D

I mean a clone of Harry pretending to be good is one I didn't see coming. Neither did I see the return of Ben Reilly returning from beyond the grave. I mean WOW, so I can assue that within the future there would be a reunion between him and Elizabeth Tryne, right ?

Especially given Ben's future legacy in world of Spider-girl, if you can get my grip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkdevil

Please do say that's in the cards right ?

Also with Ben alive, how will he deal with this new world he being place in ?

And what of Kaine ?

Also the Harry thing was a nice twist indeed and I can't wait to see what he truly has planned for the next encounter/battle with Peter, especially with him running his father's company.

Nice conclusion to the Multiple attack of the Spider-men arc as I felt that Black Cat and Spider-man's fighitng side-by-side reminds me of their fight against the Owl and Doc Ock and how Cat nearly died that time around as well. Still nice to see Peter to cut lose once and a while.

What of MJ since Harry's defense attack against her ?


Please do continue on this great series as I can't wait to see what you have planned for the next issue. [smilie=spidey_clap.gif]
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby SpideyFan914 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:06 am

Hm.... A few pointers here:

The Harry clone - nice! I'm liking that idea! Didn't see it coming, either. And the fact that the clone is more important to Harry than the entire Zombieland-esque master plan? Interesting....

Black Cat - Wow. And, yeah, that reminded me of the Ock/Owl gang war. Interesting to see what happens there - I don't think she'll die, or else she would've, um, died.... in the fight. Just makes sense that way.

Ben Reilly - .... I have to agree, why Ben? I never much liked how characters are spontaneously brought back from the dead either, but really, Peter just randomly brought Ben back to life. Uncle Ben, Aunt May, Gwen Stacy - Peter's lost A LOT of loved ones over the years, but he decides to bring back Ben. Doesn't even think of the others. Doesn't consider the consequences, nothing. It really just seemed like you wanted to work with Ben....

Potentially evil clone - Interesting.
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Spidey Fan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:45 am

One word: Wow!

I have to say I did not see the Harry clone thing coming. I honestly thought that the Harry in the office with Peter was the Goblin King trying to play some mind game with Pete, set him up for a bigger fall down the road. You caught me off guard with it Kevin. I have to admit I was a bit confused until the actual Goblin King showed up and then the light bulb went on.

Like Spidertour I was a bit put off by the whole cosmic cube out too. I know why you did it, so we could get Ben back, but with it being a cracked cube I have to wonder if there will be issues later. Not sure why Pete didn't use the cube to heal Cat.

Toxin was great in this issue, just like last issue. Makes me miss the guy and wonder why Marvel has not done even a mini or appearance of him in a Spidey book.

Ben is back! This is awesome! I have my suspicion that you brought Ben back to go the direction of having Ben take over the role of Spidey so MJ and Pete can go off to live a happy ever after. If not, I look forward to seeing where you take him.

I am curious about that final Peter clone that ran out of the Goblin King's lab. Unlike Enigma I don't think it is Kaine, as Kaine is not dead in your story to my knowledge. Definitely curious where that will lead.

Pacing was great in this issue, as was the character banter. Excellent work!
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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Spidey Fan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:48 am

Oh, and the homage for this cover is to this issue of the Clone Saga:


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Re: Crawl Space #11 Discussion Thread

Postby Spideydude » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:06 am

Nope. It's simular, but it's from the 90s Saga.
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