Amazing Spider-Man #685 spoilers and discussion

[jlredline]

Here is a question that I asked Tom Brevoort regarding The Black Widow:

Now that ASM: Ends of the Earth is a success, would Marvel be willing to use The Black Widow and Spider-Man in future team-up stories in Avenging Spider-Man or a possible Black Widow mini series?

Tom Brevoort

I don't really think it has a lot of impact one way or the other. We've tried BLACK WIDOW projects and likely will again, but we've not yet found an approach that makes an ongoing book viable. And like any other character, she'll guest-star in the Spidey titles when there's an appropriate storyline, but fitting her in there isn't really a priority.

Imagine if she was feature as a guest crime fighting partner in ASM: Maximum Carnage instead of The Black Cat? Anyway, if the guy who is writing Winter Soldier wants to do a team-up story with Spider-Man x The Black Widow, he could write that potential story in the pages of Avenging Spider-Man.

[Phantom Roxas]

Ed Brubaker is writing Winter Soldier, and Black Widow is currently in a relationship with Bucky, although that may change in July when she and Bucky fight while Avengers Assemble has her hooking up with Hawkeye.

[FSUSpiderFan]

EDIT: One other thing which stood out:

During the scene with MJ, we get the sense that New York is on edge because they are not sure whether or not Doc Ock plans on using the Octavian Lens to save the world or destroy it. Which would be fine...if we had seen earlier scenes of Joe Q public expressing worry and doubt about Doc Ock along with others who welcomed Doc Ock plan. Except all we have seen from the average citizens of the Marvel Universe is nothing but them saying good things about what Doc Ock is doing to help the world, including this very issue. To then have a scene implying how people are on edge because they don't know for sure what Doc Ock is going to do is actually inconsistent which what the story has been establishing about the public's reaction.

The general public of the Marvel universe being fickle and easy to manipulate and sway? That sounds about accurate to me.

It's actually worse than that. From Norman Osborn forward, we've seen the general public of the Marvel Universe giving self-confessed supervillains and mass-murderers MORE benefit of the doubt than the superheroes who have saved their lives countless times. There's being short-sighted and simple-minded, and then there's harboring an active preference for people whom you yourself know to be pure evil, and the 616 Marvel Universe public crossed that line a long time ago.

The general public in Marvel U. is becoming more and more like the citizens of Springfield.

[Enigma_2099]

I find it funny how for once, the 'New Deus Ex Machiavengers" didn't get him out of it this time, and instead he has to be bailed out by a couple of hot chicks. One which is suddenly harboring possible feelings for him, that's not his wife, and the other who happens to be a redhead... who's not his wife. Meanwhile we get the obligatory MJ cameo to assure you she's still around and there's a wee bit of a chance that she'll be back in his life, despite the fact that just like all the other times before this, it'll amount to nothing because that's not the direction we want to go with Spider-Man, but we know that if we write her off completely, it's possible that people will drop the book completely.

So... agrees? Disagrees? Hate mail?

[NickMB]

I find it funny how for once, the 'New Deus Ex Machiavengers" didn't get him out of it this time, and instead he has to be bailed out by a couple of hot chicks. One which is suddenly harboring possible feelings for him, that's not his wife, and the other who happens to be a redhead... who's not his wife. Meanwhile we get the obligatory MJ cameo to assure you she's still around and there's a wee bit of a chance that she'll be back in his life, despite the fact that just like all the other times before this, it'll amount to nothing because that's not the direction we want to go with Spider-Man, but we know that if we write her off completely, it's possible that people will drop the book completely.

So... agrees? Disagrees? Hate mail?

I don't think they necessarily wouldn't put Peter and MJ back in a relationship, in fact I'm almost certain it'll happen again at some point. Just seems very unlikely they'd get married.

[Phantom Roxas]

I didn't even make that connection between Silver Sable, Black Widow, and MJ, but it's a nice catch.

Since jiredline is constantly bringing up Ms. Marvel's relationship with Spider-Man, that would have been another reason to bring in the New Avengers, but nope, we need to cash in on the movie.

[jlredline]

I didn't even make that connection between Silver Sable, Black Widow, and MJ, but it's a nice catch.

Since jiredline is constantly bringing up Ms. Marvel's relationship with Spider-Man, that would have been another reason to bring in the New Avengers, but nope, we need to cash in on the movie.

Aside from their respective personalities, I would think that connection between The Black Widow x Silver Sable mirrors Mary Jane x Felicia Hardy in appearance. As for the marriage between Peter Parker and Mary Jane, I am sure that it will come back. But only once the guys who broke them up are gone from Marvel, like Joe Quesada who was the one responsible for OMD.

As for Ms. Marvel's relationship with Spider-Man, I like how they have become close friends after they got the chance to know the other out of costume. The thing is that Carol isn't the only heroine interested in Spider-Man. Besides The Black Cat, I feel that there are at most six other heroines who would love to be Spider-Man's crime fighting partner. And they are:

1. Ms. Marvel
2. Silver Sable
3.The Black Widow
4. Spider-Woman
5. The She-Hulk
6. Psylocke

Any one of these heroines would make for an interesting alternate crime fighting partner to The Black Cat for Spider-Man. If a writer can't get to use The Black Cat, or isn't interested with using her, there are 6 other heroines(interested in Spider-Man) to choose from depending on the story. While I like the idea of Peter getting the opportunity to establish a mutual friendship with each of them, as well as getting to date them in order to get to know the other respectively, it's probably for the best that his mutual relationship with them doesn't extend into a serious romantic relationship.

I would rather see Peter's personal life separate from his Spider-Man persona. I just want to see his female crime fighting partners, besides The Black Cat, get expanded to no more than 6 other heroines who might make the stories interesting to read about. And we got that with Silver Sable and The Black Widow in the current Ends of The Earth storyline.

And I never said that any of the heroines mentioned was going to replace Mary Jane as Peter's love interest. Did I ever said that?

Ed Brubaker is writing Winter Soldier, and Black Widow is currently in a relationship with Bucky, although that may change in July when she and Bucky fight while Avengers Assemble has her hooking up with Hawkeye.

I know that Ed Brubaker wants to write a Spider-Man series in the future. However, I think that it would be a cool idea for him to do a Black Widow x Spider-Man team-up story in either Avenging Spider-Man or a potential Black Widow mini-series titled: Astonishing Spider-Man and Black Widow team-up adeventure!!!

[Enigma_2099]

Let's not go there... you KNOW how I get...

[jlredline]

Let's not go there... you KNOW how I get...

Enigma,
You will get Peter and Mary Jane getting back together. No one is disputing that. I am only talking about the Spider-Man side towards an increase of his heroine crime fighting partners to at least six others besides The Black Cat because there are stories of which any of the 6 alternate heroines could partner up with Spidey instead of the Black Cat. I say let the Black Cat reside with Daredevil and Moon knight because I feel that it's time for Felicia to move away from Spidey's world and reside with characters who could use her help.

[Phantom Roxas]

Agreed, since now we're just making this into a duplicate of this thread.

I will say that I appreciate that you swapped Black Cat with Black Widow. What happened to Black Cat after the two-part setup for The Omega Effect? I definitely agree that Felicia serves as a parallel to Silver Sable in regards to Ends of the Earth, but that's giving her too little credit. It's long since been agreed that OMD won't be undone until Quesada leaves, or at least is in a significantly less more powerful position.

1. Carol will be developed through AvX, New Avengers, her upcoming solo, and her appearance in Avenging. Most of those could definitely continue her relationship with Spider-Man, but I'd say we should look at her series in particular.
2. We'll have to wait until Ends of the Earth is over to see where Silver Sable's relationship with Spider-Man stands.
3. Black Widow X Spider-Man shouldn't even be considered, but I definitely noticed that they might be setting it up as soon as I noticed that she would play a major role in Ends of the Earth. However, I'm up for her showing up in Avenging Spider-Man, because at least that book is supposed to be about him and the Avengers.
4. Spider-Woman is currently with Hawkeye, although if they really are setting up Hawkeye with Black Widow, it could leave the possibility open. Once again, she can show up in Avenging.
5. She-Hulk appeared in this week's issue of Avenging, and the preview seems to be expanding upon the possibility. We'll have to see where they stand by the end of the issue. This could play a role if Slott's Reckoning War comes to pass.
6. Assuming we do get a New Avengers/X-Force crossover, that might have Spider-Man encounter Psylocke, but since Daredevil is fighting Psylocke in AvX, a team-up might not go so smoothly. However, so far Psylocke shouldn't be considered because so far their connection is just their mutual connection to Captain Britain.

So really, most of them either can, will, or have been dealt with in Avenging Spider-Man, although that's supposed to be a team-up book, not a dating sim. Silver Sable is a Spider-Man character, so her relationship could still be explored, leaving Psylocke as the only character with little chance of being considering a possible love interest. Besides, isn't she in a relationship with Fantomex, or did that get dropped in a recent storyline?

[Enigma_2099]

Let's not go there... you KNOW how I get...

Enigma,
You will get Peter and Mary Jane getting back together. No one is disputing that. I am only talking about the Spider-Man side towards an increase of his heroine crime fighting partners to at least six others besides The Black Cat because there are stories of which any of the 6 alternate heroines could partner up with Spidey instead of the Black Cat. I say let the Black Cat reside with Daredevil and Moon knight because I feel that it's time for Felicia to move away from Spidey's world and reside with characters who could use her help.

Why would you wish that b**** on those poor guys? What did they ever do to you?

And what do you want exactly? Just a new female sidekick? One off pairings? A new romantic interest?

Peter and MJ will get back together when the readership drops off enough and they have to sucker them back in. What I WANT is for them to fix everything OMD/BND broke.

[jlredline]

Agreed, since now we're just making this into a duplicate of this thread.

I will say that I appreciate that you swapped Black Cat with Black Widow. What happened to Black Cat after the two-part setup for The Omega Effect? I definitely agree that Felicia serves as a parallel to Silver Sable in regards to Ends of the Earth, but that's giving her too little credit. It's long since been agreed that OMD won't be undone until Quesada leaves, or at least is in a significantly less more powerful position.

1. Carol will be developed through AvX, New Avengers, her upcoming solo, and her appearance in Avenging. Most of those could definitely continue her relationship with Spider-Man, but I'd say we should look at her series in particular.
2. We'll have to wait until Ends of the Earth is over to see where Silver Sable's relationship with Spider-Man stands.
3. Black Widow X Spider-Man shouldn't even be considered, but I definitely noticed that they might be setting it up as soon as I noticed that she would play a major role in Ends of the Earth. However, I'm up for her showing up in Avenging Spider-Man, because at least that book is supposed to be about him and the Avengers.
4. Spider-Woman is currently with Hawkeye, although if they really are setting up Hawkeye with Black Widow, it could leave the possibility open. Once again, she can show up in Avenging.
5. She-Hulk appeared in this week's issue of Avenging, and the preview seems to be expanding upon the possibility. We'll have to see where they stand by the end of the issue. This could play a role if Slott's Reckoning War comes to pass.
6. Assuming we do get a New Avengers/X-Force crossover, that might have Spider-Man encounter Psylocke, but since Daredevil is fighting Psylocke in AvX, a team-up might not go so smoothly. However, so far Psylocke shouldn't be considered because so far their connection is just their mutual connection to Captain Britain.

So really, most of them either can, will, or have been dealt with in Avenging Spider-Man, although that's supposed to be a team-up book, not a dating sim. Silver Sable is a Spider-Man character, so her relationship could still be explored, leaving Psylocke as the only character with little chance of being considering a possible love interest. Besides, isn't she in a relationship with Fantomex, or did that get dropped in a recent storyline?

I guess that we'll have to wait and see how Spider-Man's relationship with Silver Sable will turn out after Ends of the Earth story has concluded. I would love to see The Black Widow have a mutual partnership with Spider-Man. Psylocke would be the biggest challenge of all as far as developing a mutual friendship with Spider-Man is concerned. Then again, Spidey has a strong mutual friendship with Wolverine, and that one of the most unlikeliest partnerships of all. As far as Mutants goes, I feel that Psylocke would be one of the best female crime fighting partners for Spider-Man as he does not have a heroine with telepathic abilities like she does, as well as a strong fighting ability.

I would like to think that Avengers Assemble is a non-continuity comic to take advantage of the movie and nothing else. I doubt that Clint will ever go back to The Black Widow. He's likely to return to Mockingbird once his fling with Spider-Woman has run its course.

[Mr. Noodle]

I don't get why Black Widow or Sable, of all possible characters, have been pushed into this story. BW thinks Spider-Man is the Amazing Nitwit, and Sable hasn't been around for years (Marvel years), so she can't possibly harbor "feelings" for Peter. It's as if Slott just like rummaging through the Marvel steamer trunk, and throwing very oddball guest stars into the story.

[Phantom Roxas]

I don't get why Black Widow or Sable, of all possible characters, have been pushed into this story. BW thinks Spider-Man is the Amazing Nitwit, and Sable hasn't been around for years (Marvel years), so she can't possibly harbor "feelings" for Peter. It's as if Slott just like rummaging through the Marvel steamer trunk, and throwing very oddball guest stars into the story.

Black Widow is there to promote the Avengers movie, Silver Sable is there to justify the time travel story, and Slott felt like using female characters because there is an obsession with hooking up Peter with various women. I read on TV Tropes that there was at least an attempt at developing Peter's chemistry with Norah and Michelle, but when Slott was writing, it resulted in craptacular romances such as Carlie Cooper.

[Mr. Noodle]

Based on the variety Slott ASM stories I have read now, I don't think he understands female feelings and outlooks. He seems to be guessing what women like, want, feel, imagine... I know we all joke that all men are like this, but there have been writers who seem to "get" female characters sympathetically.