Amazing Spider-Man #685 spoilers and discussion

[stillanerd]

Here's the recap:

The issue opens with Spidey, Silver Sable, and Black Widow fighting the Rhino in North Korea, which is apparently another site for building Doc Ock's "Octavian Lens" satellites. Sable detonates some explosives, blowing up the factory. Spidey demands to know if the North Korean soldiers made it out alive and Sable assures him they did, but states this is war. Spidey then tells her that since he's in command they do things his way, and that "no one dies." Spidey then shoots a spinning device that gives off electricity at the Rhino and it knocks him down. Then, several SHIELD aircraft arrive and proceed to arrest Spidey, Sable, and Black Widow. Black Widow uses a smoke bomb and Spidey, Sable, and Widow escape.

Back on Sable's aircraft, The Swan, Spidey complains how everyone in the world is siding with Doc Ock against him, but Sable tells him he's always worried about what other people think of him and that what matters is whether or not he believes what he's doing is right. Spidey thanks Sable and Widow and then proceeds to question the Sandman, who--having been reduced to his single grain last issue--is imprisoned in a tiny glass cell. By pouring in a few grains of silicon for him to bond to, they can speak to him. Sandman refuses to reveal the next location of Doc Ock's base, but Sable begins to pour a vial of acid into his cell and starts to dissolving him. Sandman pleads to Spidey, saying he knows Sable is capable of killing him, but not Spidey. Spidey, however, states that since the whole world threatened, he's willing to allow Sable to torture him to save lives, so Sandman confesses, much to Spidey's relief. Spidey then gets a call from Max Modell and the Horizon Labs crew. They inform him that they still are unable to locate Doc Ock's satellites already in orbit but, upon analyzing the data, they confirm that it does work and could indeed stop global warming. They ask Spidey whether or not they should stop Doc Ock, and Spidey says yes. Modell says that's good enough for him and that Horizon is with him all the way.

We then see Doc Ock in his hideout watching clips from around the world of people praising Doc Ock (including Dan Slott) and Ock comments how his plan is going better than even he had anticipated. The Chameleon mentions that with both Electro and Sandman out of commission, and how Rhino was almost taken out as well, that since they have money in the bank and full pardons, they should just cash in and thus everybody is a winner. Doc Ock, however, says the money means nothing to him and orders Chameleon and Mysterio to proceed with their part in the next stage of the plan. After they go, Rhino again reminds Doc Ock of his promise, and Ock reassures him. Acknowledging that Chameleon had a point about their dwindling ranks, Doc Ock sends out a secret broadcast to various super-villians to recruit them.

Back on the Swan, Black Widow informs Spidey that she has just received intel of Doc Ock recruiting more super-villians and the information comes from Titanium Man. When Spidey states he's a bad guy, Widow says that, in her country, he's considered a national hero and patriot. After Titanium Man gives them the info, Spidey states they need to recruit other heroes to their cause as well, so he sends out messages to Kangaroo from Australia, Union Jack from England, Sabra from Israel, and Bid Hero 6 from Japan. Sable also tells them that she's backing up Spidey, that he's a true hero and that she will follow him to the Ends of the Earth. Spidey gives all of them their orders.

Afterwards, Spidey takes off his helmet--he still is wearing a mask underneath--and thanks Sable for her support. Sable tells Spidey that she meant every word. When Spidey states that he always thought that she regarded him as a goofball, Sable confesses she always knew what kind of man he was on the surface. It's apparent that Sable wants to show Spidey her appreciation, if you know what I mean, just in case they should fail and if there's no tomorrow etc., but Spidey cuts her off, saying that they are not going to fail, that they will all go home, and that he made a promise to "her," thus refusing Sable's advances. Sable asks if this woman he's referring to is worth it, and Spidey tells Sable that it would take saving the world to be worthy of her. Who is he talking about you might ask? Why Mary Jane, of course!

When then cut to Mary Jane walking through New York, which is being patrolled by Anti-Spider Squad troops under Jameson's orders. Jonah is on TV stating that he is not going to see a repeat of what happened during Spider-Island, hence why the Anti-Spider Squad is out in force. When asked by Norah Winters how can he even be sure New York will still be around when they are on the brink of possible Armageddon, Jonah states they are New York, that even if the whole world goes up in a ball of fire, they will still be here. MJ thinks to herself that New York will still be here, and promises Peter that when he gets back, she is going to make sure that he gets the hero's welcome that he deserves. And as she says this, she's looking at a building with a sign that says "The Wave."

When then get scenes of Sabra, Union Jack, Kangaroo, Big Hero 6, and Titanium Man destorying Doc Ock's remaining "Octavian Lens factories." Spidey, Sable, and Widow then go to the last remaining one in Romania, more specifically on the border to Symkaria, Sable's home country. As they make their way in, they discover that the facility is deserted. Then Doc Ock appears on several monitors, and tells them that they are too late, that every last one of his "Octavian Lens" satellites are in the air and orbiting the Earth. Doc Ock then tells Spidey that, just like he was about to reveal on the beach during their last encounter, he will now reveal what he's really up to. Spidey guesses that it's to tell himi that he was wrong all along, that Doc Ock really wanted to save the world and thus make Spidey look like a fool. However, Doc Ock tells Spidey he was right along, that he couldn't stand the thought of dying, of having the likes of his genius gone forever, while the world continued to live on, and that if he must enter oblivion, then he's not going to go alone. And with that, he activates the Octavian Lens and suddenly, the entire facility is bathed in an intense, blinding heat, which begins to fry the electronics of Spidey's suit. Spidey, Sable, and Widow manage to make it outside and see Symkaria on fire. Spidey states that it's not just Symkaria, but half of the world that was facing the sun when Doc Ock activated his lens, and that they are too late, that's it's the end of the world. To be continued...

[jlredline]

A very good recap. I figured that Spidey would turn down Sable's advances because of Mary Jane. Why we all know that Dan Slott has no intention of ever going in that direction with Spider-Man and a heroine, it's not to say that the other writers feel the same way. I feel that Silver Sable will fall right into the Ms. Marvel category as a very close friend.

I always felt that initially Silver Sable and Ms. Marvel would make great alternatives to his relationship with The Black Cat.

[CrazyChris]

I predict that the ending is a fake out. Mysterio and Chameleon were sent by Ock on an unknown mission and they are both masters of misdirection. Do the math.

[K-Box]

So, Spider-Man now signs off on torture, which is bad enough, but what's even worse is Dan Slott's implicit endorsement of the idea that torture works, when in point of fact, everyone who's worked as an interrogator in the real world will tell you that, even if you're so morally deficient that you don't regard torture as ethically unacceptable, the fact of the matter is that it actually yields inaccurate information much more often than it does anything even remotely correct or useful.

And yes, I know that things like "Batman roughs up thugs to show how tough he is" are relatively standard genre tropes, but once upon a time, so were wacky comic relief ethnic stereotype sidekicks. If it's not cool for Hal Jordan to call an Inuit man "Pie Face" anymore (and it's not), then it's not cool to promote a myth that's already damaged civil liberties in this country to the point that Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia actually cited Jack Bauer of "24" as a justification for flouting human rights in the real world.

[stillanerd]

@CrazyChris--Yeah, I'd say that's a safe bet, as well.

@K-Box--Slott does attempt to cover his bases

by having Spidey think to himself upon Sandman's confession "One second more, Flint, and you would've had me. Sable's right. I have changed. But not THAT much. Not yet."

But yeah, the damage is pretty much done since Spidey DID allow it to happen.

EDIT: One other thing which stood out:

During the scene with MJ, we get the sense that New York is on edge because they are not sure whether or not Doc Ock plans on using the Octavian Lens to save the world or destroy it. Which would be fine...if we had seen earlier scenes of Joe Q public expressing worry and doubt about Doc Ock along with others who welcomed Doc Ock plan. Except all we have seen from the average citizens of the Marvel Universe is nothing but them saying good things about what Doc Ock is doing to help the world, including this very issue. To then have a scene implying how people are on edge because they don't know for sure what Doc Ock is going to do is actually inconsistent which what the story has been establishing about the public's reaction.

[DarkKnightJared]

EDIT: One other thing which stood out:

During the scene with MJ, we get the sense that New York is on edge because they are not sure whether or not Doc Ock plans on using the Octavian Lens to save the world or destroy it. Which would be fine...if we had seen earlier scenes of Joe Q public expressing worry and doubt about Doc Ock along with others who welcomed Doc Ock plan. Except all we have seen from the average citizens of the Marvel Universe is nothing but them saying good things about what Doc Ock is doing to help the world, including this very issue. To then have a scene implying how people are on edge because they don't know for sure what Doc Ock is going to do is actually inconsistent which what the story has been establishing about the public's reaction.

The general public of the Marvel universe being fickle and easy to manipulate and sway? That sounds about accurate to me.

[K-Box]

EDIT: One other thing which stood out:

During the scene with MJ, we get the sense that New York is on edge because they are not sure whether or not Doc Ock plans on using the Octavian Lens to save the world or destroy it. Which would be fine...if we had seen earlier scenes of Joe Q public expressing worry and doubt about Doc Ock along with others who welcomed Doc Ock plan. Except all we have seen from the average citizens of the Marvel Universe is nothing but them saying good things about what Doc Ock is doing to help the world, including this very issue. To then have a scene implying how people are on edge because they don't know for sure what Doc Ock is going to do is actually inconsistent which what the story has been establishing about the public's reaction.

The general public of the Marvel universe being fickle and easy to manipulate and sway? That sounds about accurate to me.

It's actually worse than that. From Norman Osborn forward, we've seen the general public of the Marvel Universe giving self-confessed supervillains and mass-murderers MORE benefit of the doubt than the superheroes who have saved their lives countless times. There's being short-sighted and simple-minded, and then there's harboring an active preference for people whom you yourself know to be pure evil, and the 616 Marvel Universe public crossed that line a long time ago.

[CrazyChris]

If pouring acid on people to get information was good enough for Saddam Hussein, then by golly it's good enough for Spider-Man.

[Mr. Noodle]

I would like the explanation for the MU citizenry's stupidity is that the devil-deal damaged everyone's minds.

[DarkKnightJared]

If pouring acid on people to get information was good enough for Saddam Hussein, then by golly it's good enough for Spider-Man.

You know, that does make me wonder something--and if it's been explained, then I don't remember, but...Sandman is basically living sand, while at least the sole grain has some sort of consciousness to it, is it possible for him to feel pain?

[K-Box]

If pouring acid on people to get information was good enough for Saddam Hussein, then by golly it's good enough for Spider-Man.

You know, that does make me wonder something--and if it's been explained, then I don't remember, but...Sandman is basically living sand, while at least the sole grain has some sort of consciousness to it, is it possible for him to feel pain?

This is kind of part of the reason why it's best not to delve too deeply down that rabbit hole, because if you try and map it out too far, it actually becomes less explicable.

[Mr. Noodle]

You aren't saying that Sandman's biology is hard to explain, are you??

Personally, I thought every part of Marko was alive, just held together by some sort of biochemical bond. That his cells had changed their mode of existence, but they were still living organisms. Because, when Venom bit a big piece out of Marko's arm (years ago, when Brock was briefly a member of the Sinister Six), Venom proclaimed it delicious, and Marko promptly unraveled.

[DarkKnightJared]

You aren't saying that Sandman's biology is hard to explain, are you??

Personally, I thought every part of Marko was alive, just held together by some sort of biochemical bond. That his cells had changed their mode of existence, but they were still living organisms. Because, when Venom bit a big piece out of Marko's arm (years ago, when Brock was briefly a member of the Sinister Six), Venom proclaimed it delicious, and Marko promptly unraveled.

Well, if that's the case, then Slott's changing it, considering how Spidey, Sable, and Widow were able to capture Marko. With Venom, I guess you could say that the Venom symbiote as of late is said to have fed off of bad vibes and emotions, so if this master grain of Sandman pushes his consciousness across all the grains of sand he's using at any given time, you could say that bite was him basically eating a part of Marko's consciousness, which could have that result.

One more thing I find interesting...between the first few issues with the Avengers and what we've seen...again, correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this seems like the first time that Peter's performing the leader role--not advising or helping or being the main protagonist, but being the Leader, ala Cap or Cyclops. In the podcast maybe a month or so back there was a discussion of what kind of team could Peter run...and I'm starting to wonder if maybe that's a direction they're going to go with by the end of this.

[jlredline]

Well, if that's the case, then Slott's changing it, considering how Spidey, Sable, and Widow were able to capture Marko. With Venom, I guess you could say that the Venom symbiote as of late is said to have fed off of bad vibes and emotions, so if this master grain of Sandman pushes his consciousness across all the grains of sand he's using at any given time, you could say that bite was him basically eating a part of Marko's consciousness, which could have that result.

One more thing I find interesting...between the first few issues with the Avengers and what we've seen...again, correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, this seems like the first time that Peter's performing the leader role--not advising or helping or being the main protagonist, but being the Leader, ala Cap or Cyclops. In the podcast maybe a month or so back there was a discussion of what kind of team could Peter run...and I'm starting to wonder if maybe that's a direction they're going to go with by the end of this.

I believe that after the Ends of Earth storyline has concluded, The Black Widow, Silver Sable, and Spider-Man will become close friends. And I would love to see more team-up adventures between Spider-Man and The Black Widow. As for Silver Sable, I seriously doubt that her feelings for Spider-Man will go away. I feel that she knows that Spidey is Peter Parker. This would mean that they share a lot in common and Silver could connect with Peter in ways that The Black Cat could not. The applies to The Black Widow as well because Spidey's actions will more than prove to her that he is every bit as good as either Captain America or Daredevil; men who she admires.

[Phantom Roxas]

Maybe Spider-Man takes a more leading role in New Avengers? Judging by New Avengers #24, I'd like to see Luke Cage step down from the position of leader and have someone else take up the role, mainly because I'm not all that familiar with Luke Cage. I'm not saying Spider-Man becomes the new leader, because he shouldn't, but do the New Avengers have their own "big three" similar to how the main team has Cap, Thor, and Iron Man? I'm going to assume it's Luke, Peter, and Wolverine.

I'm trying to catch up on the podcasts, so I should be able to get to the one discussing Peter's potential at leading a team. I say something like that would be best explored in Avenging Spider-Man. It's a team-up book, and while some may appreciate the rotating cast, having Spidey start up his own team in that book could give it a central story hook rather than just using the team-ups as the premise.